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Total rework of Gens needed

FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire
in Feedback and Suggestions

Right now it is impossible to get a good rank in gate keeper at high and even in some mid rank games. This needs some sort of fix, Also the killer needs just more time to track and chase Survivors. I've got a two prong fix for this. Add three sections to the Generator repair bar, if not being fix the gen will naturally degrade it's self at a rate of 1% a second to the last milestone that it was fixed too. A damage generator will degrade at a rather of X%(Where x is the number of remaining Gens), and will degrade past the milestone marker

Second part to this fix is all gens start with a lock on them. Now any key can be used to unlock these locks (Giving the Key Tool more uses) But there are also preset spawned keys at both exit gates and in the basement. As well as two randomly spawned keys. These keys will respawn at a rate of 150 seconds and the key will not take up an item slot. It will have it's own little HUD display. To get a Key from it's spawn box is merely the action to walk up to it, and unlocked a lot will take 5 seconds and make sound similar as a searching chest might.

Comments

  • Onetrolltorulethem Onetrolltorulethem

    I like the first idea of generators having milestones. It would slow down the survivor "gen rush" and make people think about when they want to go for a save on a hooked player rather than just "lol i'll come back after zerging the hook". Although, where would that leave kicking a generator as the killer?

    The second idea is a bit too complicated. It would be TOO much of a slow on the survivors, AND it would be very unintuitive for new players. Still, interesting ideas!

  • CallMeRusty420 CallMeRusty420

    I like this unique approach you have here. Well thought man

  • Abyssionknight Abyssionknight

    I like the first idea, but I feel it's too oppressive at the end of the game. If you're the last survivor left, finishing a gen is already very difficult, and adding the regression would just make it worse. If the hatch proposal they mentioned made it live (killer closes hatch, survivor needs to do a gen to reopen it) then your proposal becomes even more oppressive end game.

    The way I'd fix that is by making the milestones change based on survivors alive. So 4 survivors would have milestones at 25, 50 and 75 and 100 percent. 3 alive would have 33 and 66, 100 2 alive 50 and 100, and 1 alive only the 100% milestone.

    If your gen progression is below the first milestone, the gen doesn't regress (unless hit by the killer of course). So if you have a gen at 25% progression and someone dies, it's not going to regress to zero, since it's below the new 33% milestone. If you had a gen at the 50% milestone when someone died however, it would no longer be at a milestone so it would regress down to 33% (further rewarding the killer for getting a kill).

    I think this set up would accomplish your goal of slowing down the game at the start, while not making the game feel impossible or oppressive to survivors at the end of the match, especially if you're the last man standing. As the match gets hard the system is less aggressively harming the survivors, because the killer gets exponentially more dangerous and effective the fewer survivors are alive.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @Onetrolltorulethem said:

    Although, where would that leave kicking a generator as the killer?

    I cover that, Kicking the gen will let it drop down below the said mile stones until it is worked on again and it drops faster.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @Abyssionknight said:
    I like the first idea, but I feel it's too oppressive at the end of the game. If you're the last survivor left, finishing a gen is already very difficult, and adding the regression would just make it worse. If the hatch proposal they mentioned made it live (killer closes hatch, survivor needs to do a gen to reopen it) then your proposal becomes even more oppressive end game.

    The way I'd fix that is by making the milestones change based on survivors alive. So 4 survivors would have milestones at 25, 50 and 75 and 100 percent. 3 alive would have 33 and 66, 100 2 alive 50 and 100, and 1 alive only the 100% milestone.

    If your gen progression is below the first milestone, the gen doesn't regress (unless hit by the killer of course). So if you have a gen at 25% progression and someone dies, it's not going to regress to zero, since it's below the new 33% milestone. If you had a gen at the 50% milestone when someone died however, it would no longer be at a milestone so it would regress down to 33% (further rewarding the killer for getting a kill).

    I think this set up would accomplish your goal of slowing down the game at the start, while not making the game feel impossible or oppressive to survivors at the end of the match, especially if you're the last man standing. As the match gets hard the system is less aggressively harming the survivors, because the killer gets exponentially more dangerous and effective the fewer survivors are alive.

    It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.

    I will say that we should also rework some methods of escape for survivors as well, but maybe I'll do another post for that. Give them more choices to work around the killer with out confronting him directly.

  • Tsulan Tsulan

    What about additional Objectives like parts or gasoline?
    Every time killers complain about gen rush, the survivors counter that it´s their only objective.
    They really need more to do.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @Tsulan said:
    What about additional Objectives like parts or gasoline?
    Every time killers complain about gen rush, the survivors counter that it´s their only objective.
    They really need more to do.

    The key is another Objectives, one which can be avoided by bringing one in from the start rather than finding those one user keys hidden in basement and gates.

  • AnIntellectualClone AnIntellectualClone

    @Abyssionknight said:
    I like the first idea, but I feel it's too oppressive at the end of the game. If you're the last survivor left, finishing a gen is already very difficult, and adding the regression would just make it worse. If the hatch proposal they mentioned made it live (killer closes hatch, survivor needs to do a gen to reopen it) then your proposal becomes even more oppressive end game.

    The way I'd fix that is by making the milestones change based on survivors alive. So 4 survivors would have milestones at 25, 50 and 75 and 100 percent. 3 alive would have 33 and 66, 100 2 alive 50 and 100, and 1 alive only the 100% milestone.

    If your gen progression is below the first milestone, the gen doesn't regress (unless hit by the killer of course). So if you have a gen at 25% progression and someone dies, it's not going to regress to zero, since it's below the new 33% milestone. If you had a gen at the 50% milestone when someone died however, it would no longer be at a milestone so it would regress down to 33% (further rewarding the killer for getting a kill).

    I think this set up would accomplish your goal of slowing down the game at the start, while not making the game feel impossible or oppressive to survivors at the end of the match, especially if you're the last man standing. As the match gets hard the system is less aggressively harming the survivors, because the killer gets exponentially more dangerous and effective the fewer survivors are alive.

    You sir, are a genius.

  • Abyssionknight Abyssionknight

    @FoxWolfFrostFire said:
    It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.

    Some issues with the system:

    • requires a significant update to the game tutorial they just added ($$$)
    • requires new assets to be created in the form of new key chests, and locks on the generators ($$$)
    • system does not seem particularly new player friendly, as it takes a game they already struggle with and makes it substantially harder (needing to get keys, and deal with constant regression)
    • completely ruins the key economy. Now everyone can leave every match with a key, stripping the item of it's rareness.
    • The hatch changes are negated. I find the hatch during the match, I place a key next to the hatch. The killer can't move the key, so the hatch is now permanently open.
    • Matches are easier / end faster. You can use a key before the match ends, so people can literally spot the hatch, grab a key and leave instantly. This feels massively worse for players left behind, and for the killer.
    • What's the point of bringing items into a match? If you have to pick up a key that means either you A ) have to abandon your item for someone else to potential steal / for it to be unavailable to you when you need it B ) you're going to propose you can carry a key and another item (breaks item economy, allows people to carry two keys / leave with a key and another item), or C ) it encourages players to just not pick up keys at all if they bring in an item, which is detrimental to their teammates.
    • DC's aren't addressed. When people DC it already makes the game harder, and your system doesn't address that at all. I know you want a challenge, but again, you have to consider not just what's hard, but what's fun and feels good. DC's already feel bad, so there's no reason to add a system that makes them feel even worse.
  • Abyssionknight Abyssionknight

    Double post~

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @Abyssionknight said:

    @FoxWolfFrostFire said:

    It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.

    While I understand wanting difficulty, you also have to remember that not all players are on the same level. You have to balance your system not just around the best players, but also make a system that new and less skilled players can enjoy as well.

    One consideration is how would you handle key respawns? Would keys aura be visible to everyone on the map at all times when spawned, or would you just have to run to a location and see if there was a key there? Finding keys + ruin + gen regression seems very hard to manage, especially since individuals could potentially run to several key locations without ever finding a key.

    There's also the consideration that you now have no reason to bring other items into a match. If I bring a toolbox for example, I have to either abandon my toolbox to get a key, then hope I can get my item back, or I have to run around and just look for someone who has unlocked a generator. It extends the game potentially a lot more than you realise, while also creating an environment where bringing items into a game is no longer a good thing, making most of the bloodweb pointless.

    You also have to remember that killers can't interact with items... so I can literally just find the hatch, grab a key, and either leave immediately (so the games can end a lot faster), or I can just place the key on the ground next to the hatch. Now the hatch changes are entirely negated, since the key beside the hatch means the standoff is once again mandatory. Hell, even without the key next to the hatch, it's pretty much mandatory, since your format has included respawning keys all over the map.

    The other consideration is cost. Adding lines to a gen progress bar, and a regression condition is a lot less expensive and time intensive than your format, which not only requires more work on the mechanics, but also more graphical and animation work, as well as more extensive changes to the new tutorial they just made.

    Oh, and your version also doesn't do anything to deal with people who simply fail to join the match, or who DC in the middle of a match.

    So overall I don't mind your idea over all, but I think your version is a little too complicated and has too many moving parts that make it harder to effectively balance.

    I hate to point this out but it feels like you didn't even read the post. I stated that the keys from the basement and exit gates do not take your item slot.
    The game will last JUST the right amount with these changes and the blood web wouldn't be pointless as stated before and I'm sorry but five minutes a game isn't enough for a killer to do squat in most cases. I foresee this change making the game last 10-20 minutes which is MUCH better

    And second games should be balanced around best and trickle down to the worse. Just working around the worse only makes the better stronger, it is counter to making the game over all balanced (End of story on that)

    The key won't be beside the hatch. The hatch is the hatch not an exit gate. (So once again wrong there)

    If a key isn't there that means a gen should be unlocked so they can go find that.(I don't think even bad players are so dim they can't figure that out.)

    Sure we can add a key respawn SOUND to Survivors but no aura reading.

    Also your statement about the hatch and the key are clearly showing your lack of over all knowledge of the game as the hatch doesn't spawn at ALL until a number of gens are done equal to remaining Survivors + 1

    And why you are find pointing out my version doesn't think of people not joining a match. Seems like you didn't offer any advice. Easy fix btw. Remove 1 gen per unspawned Survivor as it is now +unlock one extra gen from start.

    You also seem to act like the mass player base can't understand basic game play features. So I'm going to skip that point because I NEED to believe that people on mass aren't stupid.

    PS: As for the hatch stand off, it at the least forces an extended chase as unlocked the hatch with one of the (What I will call Key ring keys) Will take time and can be stopped with a hit.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @Abyssionknight said:

    @FoxWolfFrostFire said:
    It should feel oppressive to the survivors. That is mostly the point of the game as a whole. There needs to be a big change and this would be it. The keys to my second part would also help fix the hatch issue. Because rather than doing a gen to pop the hatch open again you can snag a key.

    Some issues with the system:

    • requires a significant update to the game tutorial they just added ($$$)
    • requires new assets to be created in the form of new key chests, and locks on the generators ($$$)
    • system does not seem particularly new player friendly, as it takes a game they already struggle with and makes it substantially harder (needing to get keys, and deal with constant regression)
    • completely ruins the key economy. Now everyone can leave every match with a key, stripping the item of it's rareness.
    • The hatch changes are negated. I find the hatch during the match, I place a key next to the hatch. The killer can't move the key, so the hatch is now permanently open.
    • Matches are easier / end faster. You can use a key before the match ends, so people can literally spot the hatch, grab a key and leave instantly. This feels massively worse for players left behind, and for the killer.
    • What's the point of bringing items into a match? If you have to pick up a key that means either you A ) have to abandon your item for someone else to potential steal / for it to be unavailable to you when you need it B ) you're going to propose you can carry a key and another item (breaks item economy, allows people to carry two keys / leave with a key and another item), or C ) it encourages players to just not pick up keys at all if they bring in an item, which is detrimental to their teammates.
    • DC's aren't addressed. When people DC it already makes the game harder, and your system doesn't address that at all. I know you want a challenge, but again, you have to consider not just what's hard, but what's fun and feels good. DC's already feel bad, so there's no reason to add a system that makes them feel even worse.

    Another case of some one not offering any sort of advice on how to improve this...OR adding in points which I've already stated against. Please read the longer post to see the big issues with your post but I will address some of your key points here lol.

    First you CAN'T drop the key at the hatch, to pick it up later. (It can't be used for aura reading like the item key) So a item that can't be dropped can't be dropped.

    Acting like such a thing will cost SO much money is barely a factor in saving the damn games life from it dropping off state it is in now.

    Hatch doesn't spawn like that(Try again)

    And adding a functionally to the key doesn't strip it of anything it improves it(Try again mate) as the Key Ring Keys won't have the aura reading feature not being a true item.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    I need to make an adjust meant saying that they should keep old hatch spawn for this to work best but keep the shutting of the hatch idea.

  • JudgeArtyom JudgeArtyom

    If they did the same thing to healing I think it would be so much better.

  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    @JudgeArtyom said:
    If they did the same thing to healing I think it would be so much better.

    I thought about that, But I think that would be a bit to rough, if In all truth if this was done to healing it would be better that 10 meters walking or 5 meters running reduces the healing progress bar by 1%

  • Th3Nightmare Th3Nightmare

    The only factor in the game that is unbalanced is the repair of engines ... It is very easy to repair.

  • unknown unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • FoxWolfFrostFire FoxWolfFrostFire

    I have made a whole new post. A Redux of this post. Any more comments or suggestions please put it there.

  • NMCKE NMCKE
    Generator Rework:
    -Exit gates now require 100 power to be used and progress will be displayed to the left of the remaining generators in the trial.
    -Hatch will spawn when power is at 50 and will open for the last survivor when power is at 75 or higher.
    -There's now 10 generators in every trial with 100 second repair times.
    -Each completed generator will grant progression to powering the exit gates.

    (Assuming that the power is at 0, this is how long it would take to power the exit gates.)

    -No generators are completed: No progression to powering exit gates.
    -1 generator is completed: 66 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -2 generators are completed: 33 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -3 generators are completed: 22 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -4 generators are completed: 16 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -5 generators are completed: 13 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -6 generators completed: 11 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -7 generators are completed: 9 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -8 generators are completed: 8 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -9 generators are completed: 7 minutes until exit gates are powered.
    -10 generators are completed: 6 minutes until exit gates are powered.

    Formula for exit gate progression:
    (Number of generators completed x 0.025) = Progression per second.
    100/Progression per second = Number of seconds to power the exit gates.

    Hex (Ruin):
    -A hex that affects the Survivors' skills at repairing generators. While the hex is standing, survivors suffer a 30/40/50% decrease in repair speed. The hex effects will continue to take effect until the related hex totem is destroyed.

    This should help with generators going too fast in the current meta and the future meta.

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