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well, it depends which killer i'm using. like if i'm using wraith or a "surprise/stealth" killer i hate Sprint Burst because it denies that first hit. similarly, if i'm using a killer that wants to keep everyone injured then i hate CoH but i love playing against if if i'm a plague.
also, which perks i'm using as a survivor can make certain killer perks frustrating. like if i'm using Sprint Burst then i hate playing against fearmonger.
if i decide to bring a medkit as a survivor, then i hate being hit by someone using's Franklings but it doesn't feel as bad if i decide to bring a flashlight or toolbox.
if i bring a flashlight and spend any time trying to go for a save then of course going against lightborn is going to be frustrating.
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what makes a good killer?
- mobility
- attacks that are rewarded by killer skill level
the problem is most killers can't pressure gens on large maps and even on smaller maps might not be able to secure hits and downs without losing generators.
further, as a nurse or blight your skill level is IMPACTFUL. incredibly so. if you use those killers correctly you will dominate your opponent. however, almost every other killer in the game can be outplayed by survivors. thus, the skill level of the survivor outweighs ANY skill level of the killer unless you're a nurse or blight. this is why the game is frustrating. it's not fun playing a killer when your success is based on survivors not playing optimally and making mistakes.
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so dead by daylight isn't really balanced when 4 survivors are alive. it's balanced when there are 3 alive and more than 1 generator remaining. that's just a fact.
look at it this way. commit to a chase against a good survivor early game. 2 gens are going to pop before that survivor goes down. now imagine all the gens being worked on are on the other side of the map. you can go try to dispute them but 1 will likely pop before you get there. boom you're down to 2 gens remaining. when 2 gens are remaining and 4 survivors are alive and not in the downed or hook state you've basically lost the game. so you make sure that first survivor dies, if they don't die then it's game over, if they do die you may be able to start controlling the remaining gens and lock the game down. that's how this game is being played right now.
there are other strategies around this for success. like playing nurse or blight or going for a 3 gen strategy. any other way of playing this game just means 3 or 4 survivors will be escaping and at that point, why even play killer?
seriously though, just do the math. how long does it take to down a good survivor at killer shack with an m1 killer. unless they misplay they can waste a minute of your time there and that doesn't include any other vaults or pallets in the area that will re-enable the vault or the time it takes to hook and travel to other generators. in that time if 3 gens are worked on then you've lost the game. that's how easy it is to lose the game as killer, 1 long chase and it's over. now you can say that not all survivors are efficient or whatever, but saying survivors aren't playing at their full capacity because they're bad at the game isn't a good argument.
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the problem with boons is that they act more like killer perks than survivor perks. that's saying that they can have a global impact on all survivors the same way killer perks have a global impact. it's what makes them stronger than other perks and in a sense makes you wonder if killers should have access to a 5th perk slot.
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pigs have higher kill rates than blights. jokes on you.
haha
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some ideas with the new eruption
killer: wraith
build: eruption, lethal pursuer, knockout, call of brine
strategy: kick gens, use silent bell, down a survivor, leave them slugged, immediately go to the closest survivor with aura revealed and try to get a quick grab or hit. if any other survivors release or start running towards the downed survivor you can cut them off. 12 seconds of aura reveal is a long time and will give you plenty of information for planning your best attack.
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it should cause survivors to scream revealing their location, stun/blind survivors the same way blast mine stuns/blinds killers for 5 seconds and cause effected survivors to suffer from blindness effect (can't see auras) for 60 seconds. it shouldn't just effect survivors working on the generator but be an AOE stun that causes all survivors within 10 meters to be effected as well.
lets remove any element of gen regression and turn it into a fun perk.
you might think this isn't strong but imagine not being able to see the downed survivors location or where they are hooked for 60 seconds. would be strong in a different way.
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i think devs only get around to nerfing survivors when one of them is forced to play the game once in a blue moon.
the truth is that for every 1 killer complaining about unbalanced survivor perks, there are 4 survivors complaining about killer perks. thus when the devs go to the forums they see 80% of the complaints being about killers thus they make their changes accordingly. that's the reality we live in and why survivors only get nerfed every 5 years.
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dead hard could use a nerf but i want it changed so you don't have to act like every survivor has it. it effects your play even when it's not being used and just adds another layer of annoyance to the game as a killer.
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i think eruption will still be a good perk if used with other gen kick perks but likely won't be good enough on its own.
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so i think if you're running a gen kick build the 10 second aura is actually pretty decent and the gen regression itself could be as valuable as pain resonance. obviously it's a huge nerf but eruption wasn't just a "good perk" like pain resonance, it was an oppressive perk that combo'd extremely well with other very strong perks like call of brine, overcharge and no where to hide.
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at least give us a survivor nerf if you're gonna nerf the best killer perk. instead survivors got a buff! who woulda thought.
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I'm not 100% sure of this but I feel that it's probably true.
Unbalanced maps influence kill rates more than anything else in the game including the killer being used and their perks.
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as someone who has played a lot of wraith.
- sprint burst
- circle of healing
- medkits
- flashlights
- vaults
- pallets
- killer shack
tips: stand in front of the vault location and pallet, not behind it. force the wraith to uncloak before you make your move. he will want you to run into a dead zone. don't. his strength is the burst of speed he gets coming out of cloak. this is why sprint burst + running to a vault location is so powerful. don't vault unless he's uncloaked, just stand in front and force him to uncloak.
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pipping serves no purpose in the game and should be ignored.
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against spirit it really just helps to have the right perks. originally you could run iron will and that would nullify a lot of her power but now it's better to have something like sprint burst, self aware and off the record (quick and quiet is actually really strong against her too).
just try not to spend much time injured and really try to make her work for that first hit against you. once you're injured it becomes much easier for her to down you. so pre-drop pallets if you have to to be safe and if you have self-aware be stealthy and waste as much of her time as you can before she starts chase. other than that it's just about getting lucky with being on the right side of a vault or pallet when her phase ends. if she catches you in a dead zone where you can't hop to one side of a pallet or vault that's just making it easy for her so be careful about running from from one tile to the next. really good survivors are thoughtful about their scratch marks when they phase as well which can be used to confuse her yet remember when you're injured she can still easily hear your cries.
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matchmaking is only one element of the nonsense in this game. you also have extremely lopsided maps, extremely op RNG related to vaults and pallet spawns. in this game if you win too much it will force you to play on your worst performing map.
and then of course imagine spending most of your time on nurse or blight and playing against nonstop sweat teams and then switching to play a pig or myers or some other flawed killer, well the mmr isn't smart enough to realize this and keeps matching you against the sweaty teams you were playing against on nurse.
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onryo if they're slugging. it's just very oppressive against solo queue and the games take forever.
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the knight is easily better than half the killers in the game and he's very strong at the 3 gen strategy.
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i play much better with the HUD than without it. that being said, when i play as a top 10 killer the matches feel mostly the same. but they do feel worse when playing a lower tier killer.
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- cognitive biases. when you play survivor you don't blame yourself but you blame your team but when you play killer you blame the game or matchmaking or even yourself
- not getting the outcome you want can be frustrating but just remember - no ones keeping score of how often you win or lose and no one cares. try not to focus on the outcome or result so much - that can be hard to do but if you can't have fun without getting the desired outcome then you really should just go do something else.
- i challenge you to try to have fun losing. what would that even look like anyway? i bet if you ever found yourself having fun while losing you'd actually start seeing improvement in your games. you'd be more creative, you'd see things you didn't see before, and it takes this to be good at mind games and will ultimately help you outplay your opponents.
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so i'm pretty sure the MMR system tries to make you win x amount of games and lose x amount of games repeatedly. it's like this in almost all games with mmr systems. you don't just get 4 good players vs 1 good killer. but you'll get placed with 3 morons and a good killer for 5-10 games straight then all of a sudden be placed with 3 good survivors and a bad killer for x games.
good players will win more of the games they're supposed to lose, and win the games they're supposed to win.
that being said i know they've done a lot of experimenting with the MMR system. i know once we had a day where they only matched you closely with people who had your mmr. so really good players had very long queue times and all of their matches were extremely challenging sweatfests. and then they had a day where anyone could be matched with anyone, and a day that was more dynamic where you'd get "fun easy" matches, then a sweatfest. not sure how the data they collected from this influenced what they eventually settled on but it doesn't feel like it's in the "extremes".
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@Dogma_loki said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338360#Comment_3338360
Nice story bro. Its been the exact opposite of my experiences. You just must be THAT good.
😕
i mean imagine saying that to a 6000 hour survivor.
oh wait, you are.
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i went on like a 20 game escape streak as a survivor in solo queue and hit rank 1 in no time at all. the hud changes make escaping so easy that you're almost guaranteed to escape if you're not tunneled out in the first 3 minutes.
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i don't think we should think about the game in terms of KILL RATE.
Nurse has one of the lowest kill rates in the game and yet is the strongest killer.
i want to think of the game in terms of - if I play well as a killer what are my chances of securing more than 2 kills? obviously playing well as a trapper doesn't mean anything because the power is so weak. yet shouldn't good play result in kills? this is why people play nurse and blight because skill level has a direct relationship with kill rate.
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dbd is now in
:baby mode
honestly, it's so easy to be a survivor now. it's soooooooooo easy. and killer? what kind of stupid person would play killer.
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the only surefire way to put yourself in a winning position in the game is to tunnel out 1 survivor. it's the ONLY strategy that makes the game feel manageable as a killer. 3 survivors are manageable, some may even say balanced. 4 survivors are not manageable unless you have a 3 gen strategy or are playing nurse/blight and can just instadown anyone you see. that's the reality of the game.
anyone who doesn't understand this doesn't understand the game.
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knight's addons are so lazy. likely one of, if not the worst addons in the game.
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my vote is plague. survivors will usually spend most of the game injured and it's hard to bully when injured. also, if they're not injured do they really want to be infected? and do they really want to cleanse just to bully you? it's not a winning strategy.
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knight is a relatively weak killer that is easily trashed on most maps in the game. Sure, he can occasionally zone you out but that's literally his only strength. if he's camping you've already won.
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well, my only gripe about nurse/blight in solo queue is how frequently survivors just disconnect immediately. like they wont' even get downed, just see that you're one of those killers and dc.
honestly, i really think these survivors should be horribly punished. like banned from the game for 10 years but behavior is afraid to ban them for even a day.
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consider a few things
- you have to act like every survivor has it and it impacts how you play even when it's not being used
- originally on the PTR it was nerfed to make it less consistent but as time has progressed survivors have learned how to make it consistent.
- it's the best perk in the game for subtle cheaters. (people running a script so it always activates on a killer swing)
- it acts like an additional health state which can be demoralizing especially against good survivors.
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#1 a game mode with 8 survivors and 1 survivor is the saboteur/killer
#2 terminator (with arnold) his power being that he can periodically destroy vault locations and undropped pallets.
#3 the matrix (with agent smith) his power being that he can periodically "change" locations with a survivor; basically the same thing the agents do in the matrix. and he can "dodge" flashlight beams of course.
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game is too easy for survivors. survivors can dictate flow of the game by bringing toolboxes, gen rushing perks, and map offerings. additionally survivors can play SWF and if they are all high skill then they realistically should only be facing nurse and blights because there's not much other killers can do regardless.
further many maps have are too large or make it too easy to waste a lot of the killers time. good killers recognize this thus their best option is to camp and tunnel, then have a manageable game when only 3 survivors are left.
realistically, the game should be made much harder for survivors and disconnects should be met with fierce penalties. then you can add in things that basically eliminate camping and tunneling altogether. it's not being used as a strategy because killers are lazy, but because it's often the only strategy that actually works.
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dragon grip has a big cooldown, exposed effect is too short, survivor isn't revealed long enough. it's also easily played around. you just wait til the killer isn't literally right next to the gen before tapping it.
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ya the game feels different on some kind of fundamental level. it does help you make better decisions and i feel like that's actually a problem. in solo queue half the fun is not knowing what the hell is going on. now a lot of that mystery is gone.
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probably blight. i've had a lot of memorable games against nurse in solo queue that were actually really good games but against blight, not so much yet he's just as strong.
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@CrystalMathHo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3319682#Comment_3319682
As a console player, people will literally go and start a 'party' with me just to cuss me out. I don't understand why people have to be so toxic or do things to taunt the killer. When I get taunted as killer I'll just do something to taunt them back if I hook/mori/sacrifice them. I treat survivors the same way they treat me.
it's really just cause there's no actual accountability. at least league of legends just started outright banning people for even being slightly unsportsmanlike. but not here.
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think there may be a lot of subtle speed hackers right now anyway. been using "all seeing" wraith so i know exactly when work on a generator starts and its progress and just had a game where at no point in the game could i actually get across the map to a generator before it was completed. complete nonsense.
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things i find annoying as a killer
- swf groups that aren't playing the game but just want to make it impossible to hook anyone (imagine 4 survivors taunting with flashlights/toolboxes, not even doing gens
- being accused of tunneling when i wasn't even trying to tunnel, just kept running into the same survivor while playing normally
- being harassed in game chat for any reason. doesn't happen too often but when it does it's demotivating. seems to happen most often by SWF groups that were likely in a bad mood before the game even started
- playing a low tier killer without meta perks and getting a bad map against a good swf and then getting a "gg ez"
- survivors who d/c early. (i like playing builds that let me get gen grabs and it's amazing how many survivors ragequit if grabbed early)
- survivors who d/c and then laugh because their d/c prevented you from getting a 3k or 4k
- SWF groups who coordinate to bring like 4 fully loaded medkits or 4 fully loaded toolboxes (and then complain when i bring franklin's, like really?)
basically, survivors complaining/harassing/abusive is what i find most annoying.
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@HeehoRacketeer said:
You do realize that this would make slugging god-tier as a playstyle, right? Killers who can down quickly would become unstoppable and most Survivors would probably DC the moment they see the killer setting this up.
Is this system meant to only benefit the killer?
there are a few ideas at play.
- preventing slugging as a playstyle [basekit unbreakable is part of the new mori system]
- preventing survivors from abusing basekit unbreakable as a playstyle
- creating an alternate win condition for the killer based on slugging
how do you accomplish all 3? i think the current system the devs are floating accomplishes #1 but opens the door to #2 and makes #3 incredibly unlikely from ever occurring.
i think my system accomplishes all 3 and can be greatly modified simply by [as suggested] increasing survivor heal speed of other survivors in the dying state. the issue is that basekit unbreakable can be easily abused so it needs to have pre-requisites (3 survivors being down), and the win condition for the killer would be based entirely on whether or not they can down the 4th survivor in the time it takes survivors to self heal from 50%-100% once the 3rd survivor is downed. it would be an exciting system, extremely high risk/high reward but a possible option to end the game whereas in the current system it would likely only happen in the event a cannibal downs the entire team in a hallway.
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no. you need to play killer enough that you have a general strategy for each map (know where the 3 gens typically spawn, how to patrol etc) and have a gameplan for creating pressure and of course know when you really should just drop chase. i think a lot of killers basically lack strategy, lack the ability to keep their gens safe, lack the ability to get quick downs etc. so their success entirely hinges on survivors making mistakes and when your success is dependant on the survivors playing poorly of course you're going to be stressed.
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@HugTechLover said:
This whole thread is a ridiculous argument.
Nobody ever brings keys anymore. Once in a blue moon.
Killers hardly camp hatch anymore, I haven’t seen it done it months.
Nah, you're being ridiculous. This is a massive flaw in a core aspect of the game that shouldn't be overlooked after the games been on the market for 6 years.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316053#Comment_3316053
The killer is making the smart move in this case. If they know the survivor has a key, they would be stupid to leave or close the hatch.
The survivor, by your own words being "stubborn" is the one holding the game in limbo by refusing to repair the remaining gens.
Just because it's boring doesn't mean it's not an option.
If it's one more gen to repair, it's an easy way to force a three-exit scenario and make an easy escape. If there are multiple gens left to repair, then repairing one might pressure the killer away from the hatch.
It's not just smart. It's the only option other than for one side to make the wrong move.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316045#Comment_3316045
I may be misunderstanding, so let me ask:
Is the hatch visible and open?
If Yes:
- Survivors can leave.
- Killer can close it.
If Not Visible:
- Survivors HAVE to do gens, or they can be reported for not playing their objective.
If Killer Closes It:
- Survivor with key can open it.
- Endgame collapse will kill Survivors after 4 minutes.
- Generators can no longer be worked on.
- Survivors must open exit gates.
If Survivors are refusing to do generators; They are breaking the rules. In every other scenario, they will either leave, or die.
So...Where's the limbo?
Often there are multiple generators left to complete. The survivor with the key won't even attempt them and has the choice to be stubborn waiting for the killer to close the hatch to escape. If the killer refuses to close hatch it puts the game in limbo.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
...What?
- If the Killer does not close the hatch: Survivors can escape. With or without a key.
- If the Survivors have a key; They can reopen the closed hatch. If they don't; they can try the exit gates.
- If they don't open the gates after the hatch is closed; End Game Collapse will kill them.
So...where's the limbo part?
if there are generators left to complete the game will be in limbo. i thought that would be obvious.
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this is likely why DS was nerfed. survivors were using it offensively rather than defensively. basically daring the killer to down them and pick them up.
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honestly i think DS got replaced by the new dead hard. as weird as that sounds think of a single other perk that as a killer you have constantly play around as much as the new DH.
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Plague - maybe unfun to play against from the survivor side sometimes but her addons are some of the best designed in the game which open up a variety of playstyles.
Wraith - stealth killer with map control that isn't unfair to play against. strong addons that actually do change the way he's played.
Blight - his kit is extremely fun to play with and against. only thing is that he's a bit unfair to play against sometimes.
The Oni - even if he's not the strongest killer in the game he can still invoke fear in even the most skilled survivors. downing survivors while charging can feel very rewarding. only downside is that his addons are boring.
The Huntress - very fun killer to play against, and feels very rewarding to hit survivors with hatchets. downside is the skill requirement which i think is actually higher than the nurse which make her prone to being bullied. also boring addons
popular mention:
the demogorgon - very unique kit with his portals and feels very rewarding to hit survivors with his leap attack.
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@Bardon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3312387#Comment_3312387
CoH is utterly broken, it provides massive bonuses to all players for a short time investment (though not 4 seconds) and can be reapplied easily - there is no current way for a killer to completely remove the boon from the game unlike hex tokens.
CoH is far more powerful than a single Killer perk, as mentioned it completely eradicates the Hit & Run strategy (and therefore encourages tunnelling, which baffles me why the devs would do that) and is completely game-wrecking for the poor slow territorial killers like Trapper & Hag - imagine them having to leave their protected area, trudge half-way across the map to stomp the boon then trudge back only to hear it re-activate before they get back to their zone.
I guess if we consider the 50% to be an equivalency Botany of Knowledge, along with Self-Care itself an argument could even be made of it being worth 2 killer perk slots but all I need is 1 to prove the point.