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@Peanits said:
While time is definitely something that Killers need to manage more closely than Survivors, I would really hesitate to boil it down to an equation. There's simply far too much nuance in any given match to possibly put a single number on it. While yes, there are four Survivors in a match, if only one Survivor is free to work on a totem (e.g. one is hooked, one is being chased, and one is going for the save), they're still ultimately spending 14 seconds blessing that totem, and those are 14 seconds that could have been put into a generator. In a case like this where the Killer's got a lot of pressure, the Survivors' time becomes far more valuable.
It's also borderline impossible to put a time on how long it takes to find and kick a boon. If you're chasing someone and they happen to run right by it, it takes practically no time at all. If you don't pass by it and instead have to go out of your way for it, it would instead take much longer.
Numbers are neat and can tell you a lot sometimes, but in this case, I don't think it accurately captures what's going on in a match.
I think however if we agree in any near terms that Circle of Healing has no cost to survivors (the time to place it being the cost) and it's providing 4 much better versions of Self Care to all survivors and if Survivor Perks are worth 1/4 of each killer perk (4 perks vs 16 perks), then Boon Totem: Circle of Healing is as valuable as 1 killer Perk slot. And I think when you consider the overall impact it has on the game compared to any other perk survivors have then there is no denying its value proposition.
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here's my 2 cents
always try to 3 gen
but while u patrol these gens, also at least patrol the 2 or 3 gens closest to them
running at least call of brine is great for this. but you need a killer who can apply pressure as you're patrolling these gens. anything that can get close enough to at least get 1 hit.
so the strategy is to try to get a hit on someone working on a gen. if they make it to a pallet or vault, then try to get them to drop the pallet, destroy the pallet, kick the gen, and keep patrolling. slowly you'll grind away at their defenses this way
never over-pursue a survivor unless you can down them quickly. this is #1 mistake killers make.
always hook the first 3 survivors but never hook the 4th survivor. leave them on the ground and keep patrolling gens.
if your killer can't reliably get a hit on survivors working on gens then this strategy isn't very good. you need to apply pressure by keeping survivors injured and having gens regress after u kick them.
also just have good game sense. if you notice a weak link on the team then you should tunnel them out, especially if the other 3 are very good.
if you can't reliably get a hit on survivors working on gens consider trying the fearmonger perk to negate sprint bursts usefulness which really puts a damper on this strategy, as well as monitor and abuse which will often times let you get much closer to the gens before survivors react, making getting the hit more reliable.
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here's a good we'll make it build. don't run kindred. instead run empathy so you can start moving to the survivor's location before they are hooked. also will let you track down people you need to heal after activating it. empathy also combos well with flashlight/toolbox sabotage users.
also run distortion. this way if the killer has bbq or some other aura tracking ability they won't target you as you make your advance on the hook.
run self-aware or lightweight so you can more easily hide scratch marks as you make your advance on the hook.
distortion and self-aware/lightweight can also help you avoid being targeted first by the killer when the match starts so you're not the survivor being tunneled out if the killer decides to do that.
lastly, i'd use overcome. just imagine you've unhooked a survivor and killer hits you -> overcome is the one perk that will help u escape dead zone and get to a pallet/vault without being downed yourself.
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- blight
- nurse
- spirit
- mastermind
- wraith
in the gen kick meta i'd go with something like this. wraith is the one most will disagree with but his map pressure is undeniable if all you do is patrol gens (try to 3 gen), secure easy hits from survivors working on gens, and then kick gens.
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An exhaust perk that also has an effect while not suffering from exhaustion.
Shake and Bake
Shake: While not suffering from exhaustion you cannot be grabbed while performing any action.
Bake: Gain a temporary endurance charge for 2 seconds while unhooking another survivor. When the charge is removed the survivor suffers from the exhaustion effect for 60/50/40 seconds.
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"No more getting upset over the many killers winning games that they have no business of winning. "
Sounds like entitlement. For most of this games history it was killers and solo queue getting shafted just to cater to SWF. Wanted to "get gud" at killer? It wasn't about skill, but about which killer you played. "Get gud" meant playing nurse or blight.
How many survivors out there mistakenly think they're good at the game because they run all meta perks and play with a sweaty SWF group?
Now it's actually really easy to deal with 4 gen. Get your SWF team to bring some gen perks, a toolbox and go blast one of the 3 closest gens together as soon as the game starts. You might have to "get gud" to accomplish this, but you can do it on literally any map against any killer. But you need to "get gud" first, or else you really have no business winning.
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honestly, i don't really think sadako is a strong killer. i think she's only strong now because of eruption/call of brine/overcharge meta. all killers who can patrol gens effeciently (ex: blight, spirit, wraith, SADAKO) are benefiting enormously from these perks.
once the gen kick meta is done and killers can't reliably regress every single gen in the game (if they have the mobility) then Sadako will be done as well.
source: of my last ~100 games with wraith using these perks i've lost like 1 game.
further; go watch one pump willy's videos using this killer. sure, he's great at building condemn. but what else is he doing? kicking gens constantly while using these perks. it's just nonstop kicking and then teleporting to tvs while he's stalking a survivor to build condemn.
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realistically it would be vittorio. hes been wandering in the Fog so long it's easy to see him being corrupted by the entity. he's also the most resourceful, creating most of the tools survivors use so I think that also makes him the most dangerous if he were to become a killer.
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idk i feel like i win 90% of my games easily right now as killer and playing against swf is much more enjoyable than solo queue. the only frustrating thing is playing against a very competent swf on a map that also favors them.
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i mean
no one really cares if trapper, twins or half of the killers are undertuned.
they only care if there's a perk that makes playing any of them actually viable.
just like no one really cares if we've already settled into a meta where most survivors are still running DH, or if circle of healing is ridiculous overpowered.
but god forbid survivors, who can queue together in a party of 4 and share the killer's location, his perks, everything about what he's doing, and strategize, are forced to deal with a single perk. like it's just laughable.
the amount of bully squads and BM i've dealt with over the years while playing killer makes me have little sympathy for the other side. how often have killers been helpless in this game's history? most of it.
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for me it's the opposite. i never have to tunnel people because eruption/brine works so well. just patrol gens, try to get a hit here or there, drop chase, patrol gens, get a down, hook, patrol gens, get a hit, kick, patrol gens, get a down, hook, etc. main thing i want survivors to do is to drop pallets near gens so i can slowly grind out all the resources they have to defend themselves. no tunneling required, double pip almost every game w/ 50k+ bps.
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there are multiple reasons why u might bleed a survivor as a killer.
- no hooks in the area, it happens
- you're running a slug build and don't hook them until they're all down
- survivor BM'd you during the match (teabaggers, beware)
- pressuring gens is more important than hooking the survivor (especially if it's late in the match and this survivor hasn't been hooked yet, just a waste of time to bother hooking them most of the time.)
- no reason at all, killer is just BMing
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i'd like to use something other than eruption but they've literally nerfed every other regress perk or perk combo into the ground. when eruption is nerfed, which it likely will be, then i'll stop using B tier killers and go back to nurse/blight. so be careful what you ask for, salty survivor main.
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i play a lot of killer and there aren't many cases where there is a really strong 3 gen setup. glenvale occasionally has 2 gens spawn behind the gallows + 1 gen on the gallows which makes it basically impossible for survivors to do anything. there are a few other maps that occasionally have a similar setup. it wouldn't be hard to better balance this. in a similar tone i think there are plenty of maps where generators are too safe, and make it way too hard for the killer to pressure gens.
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look at all the tools survivors have that make tunneling/camping painful when executed correctly. reassurance is actually amazing. flashlight saves, sabotaging hooks, body blocking, basekit BT, not mentioning numerous other perks that give survivors an edge during the unhook (or even hooking) phase.
killers too have their own perks that can help them secure hooks, more easily tunnel, camp etc. (hell, bubba was designed for it).
the issue, i think, is actually map design. look at how big some maps are, and how many killers have no mobility to actually pressure gens on these larger maps. so they proxy camp because it's literally the only thing they can do without throwing the game.
maybe there should be more perks that can regress/block gens while the killer is far away. like [the first time you hook a survivor blocks the furthest 3 gens for 30 seconds]. or [downing a survivor blocks any generator that's being worked on by 2 or more survivors for 30 seconds].
either that, or they just need to redesign some of the maps or give killers a substantial haste buff once they're 32m away from the hook that persists so long as they don't enter chase.
regardless, i think camping/tunneling is fine. survivors have plenty of tools to deal with it as is (the problem is that, like all things, there are bad survivors, and bad survivor teams especially in solo queue that literally don't know how to play the game - and there are a few killers that are exceptionally good at camping/tunneling but how do you stop bubba from camping without breaking the game for everyone else, you can't)
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@jesterkind said:
I've liked every match I've played on Shattered Square since they fixed the pallet bug. The colours of the map could use a bit more refining, but the actual layout doesn't seem that bad- but it's still new, so maybe I've just not noticed the truly awful elements, if any exist. I also enjoy Eyrie depending on which killer I'm playing, I just like the more medium-sized maps and while there are some quite safe pallets near the graveyard-y area the rest of the map is pretty neutral to play around. But, it must be said, Trapper and Ghostface among a few others really suffer there.
Side note, genuine question, why are so many people saying that these maps have a killer shack? Doesn't every outdoor map except Haddonfield have a shack...?
killer shack provides survivors with a strong loop and a god pallet. even when the killer plays it well it can still waste plenty of their time. and of course any other nearby pallets or vaults can make it feel like an infinite. often killers just have to abandon chase if a survivor makes it to the shack safely. when a map already has numerous other extremely safe tiles and buildings then a killer shack can take a map that may be slightly survivor sided and make it very survivor sided.
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garden of joy - i'd balance this by getting rid of the pallets that spawn next to the white picket fences. these fences are actually strong loops even without a pallet. i'd get rid of the cars on this map. these car loops are too strong. i'd remove the vault next to the gen upstairs in the main building and replace it with a hole in the wall for the survivors to simply fall from. the vault makes it soo strong. i'd probably do that with the vault in the back of the bottom stairs too. get rid of the vault and replace it with a simple fall. i'd also replace the large bushes on this map with something else, they're too glitchy, they block attacks where they shouldn't, just a horrible part of the map.
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i just think the last good map this game released was glenvale. it's fun to play for both sides, you don't need to play a nurse or blight to feel like you can contest gens. there's always action. it's one of the few maps where it really feels like the better side wins, rather than one side getting extremely unfair map setups. the only thing i'd change bout glenvale is reduce the strength of the 3 gen that can occasionally occur here on the side of the map behind the gallows, and maybe reduce the strength of the downstairs vault in the main building (this vault gives survivors enough time to usually escape to 1 of several pallet locations, but shouldn't be a decent loop as well.
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@entertainment720 said:
Can you add details as to what you are not enjoying about these maps?
garden of joy - too big and too much clutter. has too many strong vault locations that are often located right next numerous safe pallets. why is there a killer shack on this map when the main building is already so oppressive?
eyrie of crows - it's too big with far too many pallets AND a killer shack. this would be a great map if it wasn't so big.
lampkin lane rework - it's again, too big. with several extremely oppressive vaulting locations. this map is only playable for killer because it has a strong 3 gen strategy
shattered square - every tile has a safe pallet, often times multiple strong vaults are chained together. there's also a killer shack here, why? and the color of the map makes scratch marks hard to see.
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it was reworked not long ago and is basically an entirely different map from what it originally was
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that's fair if you remove SWF from the game. let's make it happen.
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consider using a different killer or perk build. here's the one i'm using. it's not really a meta perk/killer build but it defies the normal playstyle enough while still making survivors sweat. very rarely do any escape.
the plague
addons: black incense (red), prayer tablet fragment (brown)
addons are important: black incense doesn't just tell you what gens to defend but helps you snowball the game by tracking survivors as they are going for saves, often they'll be injured because your responsibility early game is to not pursue any chases, but infect all the gens with green vomit. survivors will spend basically the entire match injured.
perks:
fearmonger, monitor and abuse, knockout, infectious fright
fearmonger: a very important perk for this build. synergizes with knockout by denying information as well as reduces the amount of times you're going to actually encounter an exhaust perk
monitor and abuse: very important, often lets you get much closer to survivors who are repairing gens OR who are running around - makes it much easier to catch them in dead zones while you're tracking them with the black essence addon
knockout: this isn't a slug build. so why knockout? because you're often bidding your time for the perfect slug, maybe you've only hooked 2 or 3 survivors, well it's not worth your time hooking the 3rd or 4th survivor, especially late in the match. just keep them on the ground (unless they are in the middle of the map, then hook them) often times i'll kill 2 survivors by hook and have at least 1 survivor die by bleeding out. a perfect slug might be when a survivor makes the mistake of getting downed on the opposite side of the map from their team, or slugging when you down them while they're trying to unhook, or when you need to buy time to pressure gens.
infectious fright: this combos perfectly with knockout because once a survivor goes down infectious fright will basically tell you what your gameplan is. if anyone was nearby then they are your next target. and the other survivor is just gonna have to deal with the dirt for awhile. otherwise usually just hook them unless they are far away from their team.
so basically, the playstyle is: keep all gens infected in the early/mid game. let the infection spread, it's likely never going away even if they cleanse. they're injured the entire game. you're not really trying to get into long chases with any single survivor, you're just defending gens, trying to get survivors to drop pallets near gens but not pursuing on long chases, trying to get knockout value, trying to get infectious fright value, and more often than not they won't respect you, they'll go for saves when injured, they won't realize you're tracking their every vomit, they wont know where their slugged teammates are, and then at the perfect time you pop a corrupt purge and abruptly end the match.
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snitching is okay if the other survivor isn't playing the game normally. if they're just hiding then they're basically waiting for the other survivor to die. so at that point it really is survivor vs survivor.