Brimp
Brimp
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3846706#Comment_3846706
he killer taking a minimum 6 hooks to kill 1 person is double hooks compared to before in which tunneling only requires 3 hooks. If a killer alternatives between two survivors and ignores other two survivors, this perk will artificially make killer to spread hooks evenly to be 1 1 1 1 instead of 2 2 0 0. It means you get worst start as killer every single game.
However, this requires at least three survivors to all equip the perk, and to take turns doing the rescue, even if that's otherwise sub-optimal, and if the killer catches any of them at the hook, its value is immediately nullified since the user is brought from zero to death hook in one hit.
You're acting like this is an automatic feature that's basekitted in, as opposed to eating a big chunk of survivor perks, on top of the extra time required to coordinate a daisy chain of StBs. Leon's right next to the hook but has a single hook state? Gonna have to wait for Felix to trudge all the way over from the other side of the map, it's his turn to do an unhook now.
Killers that soft-tunnel are punished because you will force killer to evenly distribute hook states
Considering the game is perfectly winnable with evenly distributed hookstates, especially if all survivors have to drop an entire perk for it AND gift the killer a free extra perk (Make your Choice) on steroids, AND have to be sub-optimal with their unhooks, I don't see this as a problem.
Proxy camper get punished because you can leave survivors for whomping 120 seconds and then gift hook-states so that the person after being unhooked is not punished for being on death hook. you can rush gens while killer sits around hooks doing nothing. typically leaving survivors on hooks to go 2nd stage only to unhook them before they die results in killer tunneling them because they're on death hook. this perk removes risk of putting people on death hook in early game and allows survivors to weaponize hook trading against the killer.
Then maybe don't play AFK killer? If you actively go out to disrupt the survivors and spread your hooks yourself, this perk doesn't come into play at all. It's only if you tunnel or camp that this perk can potentially be a problem, though the exposed effect is there to reward you for tunnelling/camping anyway.
"Considering the game is perfectly winnable with evenly distributed hooks" we are not in the same world. Try even distributing hooks as trapper or clown and you will easily get 3 outted if not 4 outted if the survivors know how to do the objective and run from yellow to yellow with windows.
"Its only if you tunnel/camp that this perk can ptoentially be a problem" No… just no this perk is gonna be MORE of a problem for killers that decide to play nice because someone who previously wouldn't have access to deli could then have access to deli. -
@Lixadonna said:
I don't know why it needs a secondary effect. Sacrificing a Hook State should be enough. Jusy another Survivor Perk with too many restrictions to get low value.
Sacrificing a hook state can be well worth the time it take for the 4th person to be in the trial for longer.
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It has its used. When you REALLY need the gen progress and cant afford 2 heals.
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Oh no 40 seconds of exposed… would be a shame if i just sprint bursted/lithed across the map if the killer tried to capitalized on it. Its already good if you're good at looping but now the 40 seconds of exposed is an actual risk now because who isn't pairing this with a lithe or sprint burst to run across the map? Also DH, adrenaline and MFT were FAR from nerfed into the ground.
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Fixed by removing it. We should not have an MMR system for a game largely played out by RNG of maps. Like what's the point of skill based match making when pre-rework Sheltered Woods would have like 8 pallets max if you were lucky then go to a map like Gideons where almost all the pallets are either really safe or god pallets while having a max count of what around 20?
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Idk I dont think you can beat a sprint burst that regens mid chase with maps that were loaded at the time. Sure you could tank 1-3 hits a match with mettle but that was during a time where maps had significantly less pallets.
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Because the game has a soft capped MMR. You could be way better than someone but for the sake of keeping games going they pair you up with them anyway.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843252#Comment_3843252
Again, you even admit that none of these regression perks have been touched in like 6 months. That isn't the reason things are changing right now.
The most recent change, in fact, was a buff adding another 2.5% of "current" progress base kit to every kick, including pop. So... Making more of these strongest form of pop base kit.
And don't even try moving the goal post here. You started out complaining about base kit BT, which is trivial for killers to ignore or counter. Suddenly you're changing your stance to literally "but, if the survivor brings 3 perks the killer has to wait a little longer to tunnel and this survivor build only works exactly once per game".
I can't take you seriously, goodbye.
It's PART of the reason not the sole reason. The extra 20 seconds on hook total played another part in the reason people choose to slug over hook. Also once per game is all you really need if you are good at the game and have teammates that dont aimlessly wander around. You clearly do not play at a good enough level to understand that.
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If there is no bonus then the queue times seem acceptable by the devs to not need it.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843159#Comment_3843159
So you admit that the regression changes have literally no bearing on the current slugging trend.
But you struggle with base kit BT? I didn't think counting to ten was that hard.
Although, counting all the way to ten is, I suppose, hard if someone can't count health states. And you've clearly never played survivor if you think someone has 4 health states off hook. They made endurance not stackable like a year and a half ago?
You missed the point entirely. Regression perks from getting hooks is getting less valuable therefor it (in a lot of cases) is better to just leave the person on the ground. Also 4 health states off hook, 1 from OTR/basekit bit, another from DS, and then DH. You can be forced to win the equivalent of 2 chases for one survivor or hitting them times.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843137#Comment_3843137
These perks have not been changed in any way, shape, or form for like 6 months.
Anyone claiming this is the cause of increased slugging is simply lying.
It's mainly killers throwing yet another tantrum that literally anything was changed that wasn't a pure killer buff.
Good because if they nerfed pain res or pop even more it would be unironically nerfed Overbrine tier. So much work for so little reward meanwhile perks like Lithe or Sprint burst give big rewards for no work done. Then stacked on top of that fact the basekit hook buffs. The original base kit BT was fine but then they extended it and added a 7% haste on top not to mention flashlights just downright being free. A lot of factors one of them for me especially is 4 health states off hook that they shove in your face any chance they get.
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"Put old MFT as basekit for survivor" this right here makes no one take you seriously. Also the "average" of dbd is actually not that good at all which is why you keep seeing stuff like regression get nerfed or hooks getting buffed for survs.
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@Lixadonna said:
I thought the excuse for slugging was because either Boil Over or Sabotage. Devs should have left We're Gonna Live Forever at 150%. 🤡
The reason is because hook perks are increasingly becoming less rewarding. Pop nerfed to current progress then buffed to be somewhere in the middle to back to the 20% current. Pain res getting 20% less regression overall while more and more basekit buffs happen to hooks for survivors overall. And no WGLF should have stayed at 100%. Double the heal speed is already MORE than enough.
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@Jtflorencio said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842635#Comment_3842635
The old Trickster is so horrible... for God's sake I'm not happy with the current one!! It just needs a small buff and that's enough with so much useless rework, these 2 deserve a BUFF
Eh I'd say pretty impossible to buff trickster without major changes to how he throws knives. The best I can really think its making different modes like the regular throw mode then a 2 burst throw for longer ranges. But other than that I liked old trickster WAY better that this shell he used to be.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
It's not supposed to be balanced but chaotic and fun instead, otherwise killer queue would skyrocket even more.
The "chaotic" in question when games are 5 minutes:
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Rework trickster into his old variant. The new one just feels so…. soulless because you get no recoil from blades and you have to spend 8 blades per injury. Just took away a lot of the skill factor in him.
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@Machiveliancrow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842380#Comment_3842380
Not particularly it's frustrating with the haste boost in 2v8 and he's already able to pass by you and Block your exit routes it's less of a problem in 4x1
In 2v8 pallets are everywhere? if its such a problem do the simply wraith counterplay of pre-drop and spam vault the pallet until the wraith manages to get the prompt.
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@Machiveliancrow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3842365#Comment_3842365
I don't really have a alternative solution to what would be a alternative it just sucks dealing with his body block at pallet loops and simply wish that he wasn't able to do so
So you don't like how you mess up and don't throw the pallet so wraith body blocks it? Sounds like a major misplay to me.
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@Lixadonna said:
Of course Killer view it as a punishment for Hooking while they get free slowdown as Survivor do their Objective. Those darn entitled Killer Mains. 🙄🙄🙄
It quite literally is a punishment for hooking.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3811637#Comment_3811637
The saves are back in but I havent see a single one go out. I've personally got 3 blinds off that should have saved but survivor still got hooked, and pallet is even more rare in this mode as the save window is .5 of a second.
If you got the blind off and didn't save then you didn't time it right, simple as that. If anything the flashlight got easier because the killer cant turn their camera making the timing even more generous. The window is actually still the same as if the killer was standing right in front of a hook and picking someone up. As for the pallet it shouldn't be that hard unless you're barely making it to the pallet at the end of the pickup animation.
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The games really only killer then survivor when the survivors are anchored by bad teammates.
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If by zoning by spamming power that would imply its 1 dash wesker which is… bad. If you're getting zoned by THAT its a skill issue.
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Well what do you expect when they make the survivor objective faster for the killers doing their job? Survivors got basically double pallets, double amount of players, double the amount of hook states but only +60% to their objective while killers got… negligable slowdown per gen completed because by the time the first 2-3 cages happen 4-5 gens should be around the same progress if not completed.
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@Jacknalls_Paw said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839435#Comment_3839435
The game doesn't punish anyone, it's a small balance feature. By your logic survivors are punished for doing generators…and also a dead survivor counts as 3 cage states so you can tunnel all you want.
It quite literally punishes for playing "fair" by some peoples standards.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3839408#Comment_3839408
I dont think the system had anything to do with 2v8 2 tapping. It's probably the game misunderstanding a player being injured into thinking SLINGER injured them. I think watching Slinger pull someone into a bear traps will be funny once this gets fixed.
Possibly but then theres the part where if the slinger M1s while not in range the chain also breaks. Pretty sure this is just a measure to try and prevent 2 tapping to no avail.
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Tbh I don't even know why that system is in place. the slinger could easily just… reel in the survivor fully most of the time hit first then the 2nd person can quickly 2 tap. Just feels like a system needlessly implemented when they seem to not even understand slinger.
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Unbreakable is strong enough. That token idea would make it absolutely overpowered because 15 seconds in chase should be at least half of your total chase time.
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Not gonna lie going back to 1.0 would sound like the most BORING experience. Just constant double pallets, vaccuum pallets, double window AND pallet jungle gyms making billy the only killer seen. Sure it would be a cool nostalgia trip/experience for the first few days but after that it just becomes meta slop as with fortnite or apex before it. Might not be the most civil comment by some peoples standards but I'd rather take brutal honesty over that.
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I mean yeah nothing new. If survivors WANT to win they have all the tools necessary to do so and gen slowdown sometimes can only delay the inevitable with those builds. Worst part is you don't even need all that to reliably 3-4 out as long as you have some form of making the killer chase you for longer.
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Because removing penalties only makes the game worse as people would just leave whenever compared to "Oh we might have a chance here". Sure you can say "well if they give up on hook you don't get a bot" when the bots in question just aren't that reliable.
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Adrenaline. A really fair nerf that is made worse by the lack of communication (which shouldnt mean it was immune to changes), Boil over… I don't even need to say anything for this one, Distortion was unhealthy for both sides as it has caused people to tunnel even more.
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If you are losing to THAT many aura perks in a single build… when does it fall on the survivors skill? That could be pain res, pop, grim embrace and deadlock which is INFINITELY worse to go against.
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Yeah. Perks always been great and got buffed to be less punishing for the first stack which is nice. I get people don't like the whole "well it relies on skill checks" but once this perk snowballs it snowballs. After the botany buff its got decent competition now for the "heal anywhere" type of healing perk.
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Pretty sure it wasnt the finisher mori that caused 4 man slugging. Pretty sure it was because of someone wanting to do an experiment and the extra 20 seconds on hook.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832628#Comment_3832628
Seeing as you interpret thing with out numbers as if you could you'd see how many. But for you sake 36 of the 37 killers have times in a match where gaining bloodlust 1 is better then using power for a hit. Its purely situational and part of the micromanaging killers have to have to be good at the role.
Thats the point I can count on TWO hands the amount of killers that would benefit from blood lust purely because their powers aren't consistent/good enough to cancel it out. A good example would be all of 2023 and 2024 killers are all killers that actively lose blood lust in chase because their powers are worth using and or consistent.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832567#Comment_3832567
All can use it but maybe nurse. Cause every power but hers has spots its better to chase then use the power. Bloodlust 1 is more then enough to get a hit 99% of the time.
Yeah but that didnt answer the second part of the question. HOW many killers is it more worth it to just use your power over the 5% speed increase of BL1?
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@Autharia said:
They keep shrinking maps, removing loops and adding huge dead zones from the maps but don't remove Bloodlust that was a bandaid fix for untouchable loops that are all gone now.
Lets be honest HOW many killers can use blood lust? And how many of those that can are considered the better alternative to using their power?
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Whats the point of having objects around if they are pointless to use? I mean I guess removing LOS allowing you to immerse for a little would be a start. LOS blocking slinger, huntress, nurse. pyramid head, singularity etc. Also you should learn how to loop. Looping is 50% of the survivor game plan. If you can ONLY do gens and healing and last 20 seconds in chase then you become a sand bag to your team because thats just the killer getting their perks faster than your team can complete gens.
Personally I would NOT like bigger maps because then future killers are made to contend with those maps while having stronger chase powers because larger maps usually means more pallets. -
@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832068#Comment_3832068
I really don't think taking hits/downs to avoid becoming tormented is usually worth it, that's much more of an edge-case argument, but it's fair enough to say that it's at least still a survivor choice. Actually forcing/tricking people into trails without them being able to do anything about it is definitely fairly rare.
Currently the most threatening thing about cages is the ability to camp and tunnel with little there to combat it. And it's problematic. Now (un)fortunately and surprisingly, not a lot of people opt to play Pyramid Head, and of them even fewer go for merciless camp/tunnel cage strategies, so I don't think this is too pressing of an issue. But nobody can look at the little clip I posted there and come away saying "yep, nothing wrong there". It's comically problematic. And I think the idea of "buff trails, nerf cages" is worthwhile even regardless of whether it would be done because cages are problematic - I do think currently it happens too rarely that survivors become tormented, and add-ons that pertain trails would also be much better as a result.
Heres the thing there isnt much you can even do to buff trails to make them worth placing. Sure you can make it so people cant crouch over them… but then you get an alternate hook that sends them in possibly a super safe location or inconvenient to go to. You lose out on hook perks for worse versions of regression/pressure while they still get all the benefits of being unhooked like in your idea.
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@zarr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3832051#Comment_3832051
Now I won't say it's easy to torment survivors because whenever I have the challenge to cage survivors I find myself having to go out of my way to get people tormented, or just needing to play multiple matches. But saying it's completely in the survivor's control is also not true. You can place a trail at any loop and keep chasing the survivor on it - if they cannot leave the loop, "avoiding the trail" would guarantee a hit most of every time, whether they try to crouch through it or run around it. They are usually forced to run through it if they don't want to take a free hit.
Cages have plenty of utility outside of the lack of Exhaustion reset and Endurance: they save a lot of time that you would otherwise spend picking up, carrying and hooking a survivor, instead not even having to leave your position and being able to instantly go back to doing productive things; you completely circumvent blind, stun and sabo saves; cages still negate tons of hook-based perks, such as Decisive Strike, Off The Record, Reassurance, We'll Make It, Babysitter, Deliverance, Second Wind, Kindred, Dead Hard, and so on; while sending survivors across the map can lead to them ending up next to another survivor that can quickly uncage them, it can also lead to survivors having to spend a lot of time running there while you didn't have to carry them there.
Instead of having that "torment on punishment" mechanic (which I do suspect they came up with because their stats showed them that on average not a lot of survivors are getting tormented in Pyramid matches), I would simply make it so that you cannot crouch through trails anymore. Between that and the aforementioned change where trails remain active until replaced, they would be a much more reliable tool to control areas and track survivors, as well as torment them.
That still is the survivors choice. They get presented with taking a hit or going through torment for a possibly crippling downside later in the match at the expense of a longer chase. The former is usually better since pyramid head is still an m1 with a mid ranged attack thats a tiny bit hard to dodge. You force the pyramid head to hook giving you access to your unhook perks. The only real threatening part of cages is the mori because if the pyramid head spends THAT long looking around and decides to sit at a cage… well its a free 3 out because if the survivors allow for THAT its on them.
It's all about micro and macro play which a lot of dbd players don't understand or refuse to learn.
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@zarr said:
Pyramid definitely has problems. Cages enable him to camp and tunnel with almost complete impunity. No Endurance or even brief invincibility after being uncaged, none of the anti-camping and tunnelling perks work on cages, not even Exhaustion resets. He perplexingly enough gets an uncage explosion notification, making it easy to find and tunnel the uncaged survivor, but experienced Pyramids also have no issue extrapolating on the cage spawn location to begin with.
BHVR finally wisened up and increased the range for the cage relocation mechanic to account for the fact that Pyramid has a ranged ability, but he can still facecamp cages simply by standing out of said range and moving in once anybody uncages:
Compelling gameplay design.
And that's on top of cages saving a lot of time and having a very potent ranged ability that leads to a lot of chase interactions being coinflips for survivors at best, often not really having any real counterplay.
I think trails should be buffed and cages nerfed, at the very least doing things such as removing the uncage notification, having normal unhook i-frames and perhaps even Endurance on uncages as well, making the cage relocate after 1 second of Pyramid coming within 10m of it. Trails should stick around until replaced, and pose more of a threat. Here's two old posts of mine that outline some quick ideas for nerfs and buffs:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3606310/#Comment_3606310
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3157800/#Comment_3157800
Another thing Pyramid needs is better add-ons, and that could also be compensation for cage nerfs. Lots of easy ideas for really good trail add-ons, such as trails afflicting survivors with Exhaustion, Mangled/Hemorrhage, hell, even injuring them if they run through them too often, causing Broken or Deep Wound.
Remember caging is (99% of the time because there have been times where this is no physical trail on the ground and I still got tormented) in complete survivor control as THEY have to run into the trail and is very hard to force a survivor into running into one. There would literally be no point in caging if the survivors get exhaustion reset and endurance out of cages. Sure there is the scenarios where there's a flashlight or a pallet but yet again the survivor WONT get tormented unless they want to which even then if you place the trail on the pallet they could crouch walk the extra distance to the pallet to ignore the trail.
I would only agree to giving survivors unhook perks on cages IF that random pyramid head experiment they did went through where he tormented you if he hit you with his m2. -
I mean yeah even the "average" of dbd survivors isn't what you would expect average to be.
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No. There would be NO reason to play pyramid head over artist if you were forced to cage to be able to mori. Its just giving the survivors one freebie before being mori'd which you complained about it and even then caging vs tormented mori is about the same duration. Not to mention caging is overall worse because you NEED pressure perks as phead and a lot of those come from hooking.
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I mean there was perk variety then MMR was introduced. More and more people started playing sweaty and as a result full slowdown was brought because aura reading wasn't worth it with distortion being as strong as that was. Think about it from a killer perspective, do you REALLY want to spend 20+ seconds per gen just to look around to possibly find someone? I'll say one thing and that is casual killer vs casual survivor is a WAY different experience. You can play casually as survivor and do pretty well because sit on gen with decent chase skill = escape but casual killer mostly up to the survivors to making mistakes rather than you playing well in the MMR world.
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@TheDavidKingMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828715#Comment_3828715
Nope, I mean slugging in general! Slugging for the 4k just happens to be a specific instance of it.
Slugging in general does not need a "fix"
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828992#Comment_3828992
Wesker has a wide range of bugs that can either benefit him or hurt him. It's kind of crazy how broken he is.
Grabbing people through pallets, bouncing off of people who are clearly vaulting windows, sliding past survivors, sliding past walls while carrying a survivor, throwing people past walls (or hitting people on nothing), getting a bound cut short by literally nothing, sometimes dropping a survivor for no reason.
The only way he's broken is in a technical sense, and in that case he very much is.
Grabbing through pallets as per BHVRs own wording is normal. The pallets don't instantly have a "stun" box so for the first few frames of the drop animation you can still be hit or grabbed by a Wesker dash if hes close enough.
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"Extremely large grab box" Yeah no its still pretty average.
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@Lixadonna said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828502#Comment_3828502
But you all want basekit Barbeque and Chili?
Who said everyone wanted basekit bbQ?
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@Lixadonna said:
You shouldn't need to be further incentivized by something that already awards Bloodpoints and Emblem.
When people dont have BP to grind anymore then what?