Blueberry
Blueberry
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The majority of us survive in my solo queue red rank games. Maybe 75% of the time at least. Maybe if ya'll are always dying it's related to you?
Current pipping and rank reset systems is piling up lots of people at higher ranks than they should be. IE red ranks right now for survivor is more like red-green ranks in reality.
I don't mean this to come across as insulting, it's just a current issue with the game.
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DS, Hag, PH
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Stars referencing space, which also represents possibly Alien seems quite plausible.
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To add to others advice.
Also try as hard as you can to make her 3 gen weak. She's gonna try to ensure her 3 gen is super tight, make it bad.
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Old Freddy.
Playing as him and against him was unique and fun design, as well as fitting him thematically. It could have been fixed with some simple tweaks and his full rework was unnecessary.
Now he's just boring to play as and against, not to mention just copy paste effects from other killers. Not fun, not unique, and not thematically fitting.
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If DS procs you win.
If DS doesn't proc you won the match.
If it doesn't proc and you still lost ya'll either played very badly or we're simply outclassed in terms of skill.
IE, DS is a win/win scenario.
DS goes way past an anti-tunnel perk. All the community of high hour/high rank on both sides knows this.
DS is anti-momentum in a balance where momentum is how you win when it's good vs good players.
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None of them.
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Been saying this for years. They really need to add a lot more blood points to struggling. Survivors could use some more blood points in general but it would also encourage people to hold on for as long as possible to help their team even if they know they won't make it.
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I find Freddy boring but oppressive isn't a word I would use or agree with. He seems totally fine to me in solo queue.
That hex combo isn't overpowered either. Lots of matches me and the other randos just ignore totems entirely. We finish the matches with them both still up, no issues. The perks honestly do nothing unless the killer is really good and the survivors are bad. In that scenario the killer is probably winning anyway, regardless of ruin/undying. This is also assuming he doesn't just get unlucky and we walk into his totems early on by accident and he's already down 2 perks for free. This happens quite often as well.
Too bad Undying and Freddy are getting nerfed, neither are warranted in my opinion.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1885781#Comment_1885781
I used to disagree with you a lot about Plague.
But now I’m on your side of the fence.
I’m a little broken hearted by how much of a horrible, unfun experience it is using her since dedicated servers were implemented.
Agreed. She's actually one of my favorite killers thematically, but since dedicated servers it's just an unfun experience as you said.
While dedicated servers is what causes much of her problems that's only part of it in my opinion. She has quite a few design flaws that need correcting.
When most people talk about how unfun of an experience it is not only playing as Plague but also against her that is a design issue.
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Unplayable? Nah, that's a strong word.
You will however sweat your butt off, get tilted by dedicated servers screwing you over multiple times from her vomit not registering, and then try to figure out why someone thought it was good design to have your power controlled by survivors. Oh and I forgot the fact that she gets screwed on blood points and emblems as well!
It's a terrible experience that's for sure.
No one talks about her much but I honestly think she's one of the top killers in need of a pretty heavy rework. She has so many issues.
You're gonna put so much more work in than other killers for less return.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884550#Comment_1884550
Yes and every down they do is with an M1 attack. And that is what makes them M1s. And they come with a secondary ability that doesn't do damage. M1 is literally if they can only attack with an M1. You think that because they need their secondary ability that warrants them an M2. Stop twisting definitions.
You are using a different definition of m1 killer.
M1 attack is not what makes them an m1 killer.
"You think that because they need their secondary ability that warrants them an M2. Stop twisting definitions."
It is not twisting definitions. It is the definition the community uses at large. You are coming into the game and applying it in a literal sense which is not how people use it in reference.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884508#Comment_1884508
Whatever they're are M1s cause they only have a basic attack. How come when ever they down someone Surge will proc they're M1S. How come everytime they hit some they'll gain or loose stacks STBFL. That's the facts that prove they're M1s.
Surge procs off m1 attacks. I never said they didn't do m1 attacks, I said they weren't m1 killers. Those are not the same thing.
You keep referencing the same point that they literally hit with an m1 attack. That is not what I'm saying. The fact that they hit with an m1 attack is not what determines if they are an m1 killer.
The m1 spectrum of killers is a category that shows how they go about downing players (IE the process), not whether or not they literally hit someone with an m1 attack.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884482#Comment_1884482
M1 is still killer with only M1S besides you I've never heard someone say Nurse is an M2. Should we say Wraith is M2 because he needs stealth to get around and move. No and the same with Nurse.
You are misunderstanding the entire point.
I already told you above that Wraith was an m1 killer because he is still 115% movespeed and does not require stealth to get a hit. Nurse is not 115% movespeed, IE she does need her blinks to get the hit. You are comparing apples and oranges.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884451#Comment_1884451
No a M1 killer is a killer that can only do damage with a basic attack. It is in the literal sense.
That is not how the community at large is using the term when referencing m1 killers.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884371#Comment_1884371
An M2 killer is a killer with a secondary option to cause damage. What is Nurse's secondary option to cause damage. What is Spirit's? What is Hag's? They are M1s with abilities to help get around.
You're using M1 in a literally sense, the community uses it in a figurative sense.
M2 killer is not a killer that literally damages with their m2.
I've already repeated myself on this multiple times here.
M1 killer is a killer that can down a survivor without needing to use their secondary power. M2 killers require use of their power to get the down. That does not mean their power is literally what is doing the damage (IE Nurse blink).
IE Nurse has to use her blink for a hit. She is not just running you down to hit you without ever using her power.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884421#Comment_1884421
tbh i think i played the game more then yourself, but its not even a official game term so really call it whatever you want okay? I feel like i am talking to a wall, majority of the community thinks the same, several others in this post and the last said the same, I am done with this discussion and will be ignoring any notifications from this.
"tbh i think i played the game more then yourself"
Factually incorrect.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884413#Comment_1884413
As do i have more experience, I can say that too but it won’t change anything.
You're using it as an opinion, I'm using it objectively.
You want to compare hours?
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884404#Comment_1884404
Agree to disagree, call whatever you want a M1 killer to be, but do a bit a digging and you will see alot more people then you think would agree with me
New players to the game might agree with you.
After you play more you'll see what I mean.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884403#Comment_1884403
I guess you are the whole community then.
Never said that. I do have more experience though.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884395#Comment_1884395
Technically speaking, a power is never required to get a hit for a killer, it is very much helpful and recommended but never required.
That is just wrong.
You are not running someone down with nurse to hit them. We are assuming the survivors aren't afk....
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ADDRU340HUEX/becbfc56-6f49-451b-b7cc-44b13b704391.png
Great list to tell who is a M1 and who isnt, Nurse is a M1 killer, she just doesn’t play like a normal M1 killer yet she only downs with a M1 attack thus making her a strong M1 killer
I don't know how much more in layman's terms I can put this.
You are using the phrase m1 literally, the community uses it figuratively.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884369#Comment_1884369
Well majority of community is the same for me, and the power isn’t required to down for any killer
"and the power isn’t required to down for any killer"
Then you are playing at low ranks where everything is viable and nothing really matters as all the players there don't know what they're doing.
Against good players many killers require their power to down.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884353#Comment_1884353
No it based off if the killer has a secondary damage option Otzdarva shows this Trapper is M2 but Nurse, Spirit, and Hag are M1s.
That's not how most people use the term m1.
There's a difference between doing an m1 hit and being an m1 killer. Those are 2 very different things.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884349#Comment_1884349
not going in upvotes, base off of majority of the comments there supported it, hell watch Otzdarvas video he did with basic attack and special attack explained, he sums it up very well.
I mean you said the M1 killers power can aide them in getting a hit, how is that not any different then spirit using her power to help her get a M1 hit?
and where is your “majority of the community” at?
It isn't determined by if their power aides them in downing, it's determined by if their power is required to down.
"Majority of the community" is based on thousands of hours on these forums and in game as well.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884323#Comment_1884323
Trapper isn't M1 he can use his Traps to cause damage.
M1 isn't determined by if you can damage them from a source other than M1. IE whether he can damage with his traps or not is irrelevant by the definition we're using of M1.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884335#Comment_1884335
Well same goes to you, I know what thread this post was based from and majority of the “community” there seemed to agree with this ideology of a M1 killer
Majority of the community on that page? IE 2 upvotes? Really? That's quite a stretch.
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@Lazerboy88 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884323#Comment_1884323
that is incorrect, a M1 killer is a killer who can only down someone with a M1 attack, a nurse does not down you with her blink, she has to down you with the M1 after it, a Spirit can not down you with her phase, she has to down you with the M1 after it, A hag can not down you with her teleport... you get the idea. A M1 killer is a killer who can only down with a basic attack. Bubba, billy, huntress are not M1 killers
That is not how this community uses the term m1.
You are using it literally while the community says m1 killer in a figurative use.
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M1 is meaning they don't need to use their power in the process of downing.
IE those are not m1 because they are not running you down at slower than normal killer speed to hit you unless you're playing really badly. They are required to use their ability to get a hit.
M1 killers are those such as Clown, Trapper, Wraith, Legion etc.
Their powers can aide them in hits but it is not required to down. They are all full move speed and can just run you down for a hit.
This is to say that typically movespeed is dictating what is and isn't an m1 killer in the long run.
This is confusing you because you are taking the term "m1" too literally when it used by this community more figuratively.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884230#Comment_1884230
According to Almo it's supposed to maintain "consistency" because they don't Surge to proc on downs made by traps with Honing Stone or people going down to Deep Wound. I actually don't know what's the problem with these things activating Surge, it's not like it would be gamebreaking or anything.
Oh I agree with you. They seem to really want a hard ceiling since it seems they are worried it could be too strong. We both think that seems unlikely though.
I mean if we even think about the last time something was made oppressively too strong on killer side when was that? Nurse? lol. Essentially something that does not happen ever to be worth worrying about. The meta stays so stale and never changes because they're afraid to ever make something good. We've essentially got the same meta we've had for literally years.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884272#Comment_1884272
Ask anyone they're M1 killers ask anyone and they'll say that. They don't have a secondary attack option which means yes they have an M2 ability. But the community describes M1 as a killer without an M2 attack.
I really don't want to get into an ego contest of comparing our experience and time in the game as that isn't going to go anywhere but I'm probably in the 1% of population in play time and forum time and what your saying just isn't true. That is not what the community thinks.
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@Cancan71 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884221#Comment_1884221
I've been looking at the perks and I been listing the ones that would benefit from a numbers increase. I'll only list survivor perks now because there are a lot of perks. I'm also not listing perks that require a full rework.
Autodidact
Babysitter
Boil Over
Breakdown
Buckle Up
Built to Last (Maybe, might be too overpowered then)
Camaraderie
Dark Sense
Distortion
Flip Flop (cap at 50% wiggle, also be mindful of Power Struggle)
For the People (slightly reduce broken duration)
Leader
Left Behind
Lucky Break
No Mither
Off the Record (be careful of OoO)
Open Handed (confirmed)
Poised
Premonition
Repressed Alliance
Saboteur
Slippery Meat
Solidarity
Stake Out
Streetwise
Wake Up
Even taking away all the perks that need reworks, there are tons of perks that could use some tweaking. Even if you don't agree with this list 100%, you can agree that there are a lot of perks that just need numbers changed to be useful. This is only survivor perks, I didn't even look at the killers' perks.
So we're agreeing? lol
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884261#Comment_1884261
They are still M1S on the basis they don't have a secondary attack option.
That isn't how 99% of this community uses the phrase m1 killer. This is just common jargon of this community that has been around for years and how it is understood when people say m1 killer.
M1 killer doesn't imply that they don't have a secondary attack. That's not how people are using it.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884250#Comment_1884250
Using your power to move or get places doesn't count as an M2 ability.
You're using those powers for more than just moving around. That isn't what we're referencing.
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884241#Comment_1884241
According to the description they're M1 killers. And you said Freddy was the only good M1.
Freddy is the only good m1 killer.
M1 killer in this community is described as not needing their powers to down.
Nurse, Hag and Spirit are all slower than normal killer movespeed. IE they are designed to require their power to get a hit.
M1 is not meant by the fact that you literal click your m1 button to hit.
You could make an argument for Billy if you want but Billy is a little more nuanced.
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Hag.
Clown is still terrible after the rework.
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People I don't know how knew y'all are but Nurse, Spirit and Hag aren't considered m1 killers.
"Weakest killers according to you, Nurse, Hag, Spirit."
And that is not what I said, at all.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884225#Comment_1884225
All of them can still use Surge.
I never said the devs intention made sense or was successful. lol
I'm assuming it's because their play rates are very low.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1884211#Comment_1884211
Hag, Nurse, Spirit?
Those aren't m1 killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1883187#Comment_1883187
Disagree. Most of the perks that are terrible on each side will never be used in serious competitive manner because their function is straight up useless regardless of their numbers.
For example, let's take few ######### perks from both sides to illustrate this. I'm going to take some of the most useless perks in my opinion.
-Cruel limits
-Territorial Imperative
-Flip flop
-Wake up
Even we hypothetically buffed Cruel limits to just block every window in entire map with zero range restriction and made Territorial Imperative have zero cool down, Unlimited range. Nobody would still use the perk because in the end, Bamboozle is superior window vaulting perk and superior chase perk and Infectious fright or any perceived Information perk will be superior choice to Territorial Imperative.
Its really same for survivor side. Wake up is late game perk that opens exit gates, even if hypothetically this perk opened exit gates at 500% speed or heck even INSTANTLY, it would still not get used because at the end of the day, Adrenaline is better late game option as are many other late game perks. Another issue with buffing numbers is that although a perk may be weak in its current iteration, a straight numerical buff can lead a perk from completely useless to completely game-breaking. For example flip flop is largely regarded as a useless version of unbreakable, however if the numbers of flip flop will tuned up such that it became an effective perk e.g 50%->90%, than the perk would straight up surpass unbreakable and make slugging for killer almost impossible.
This can be said for many other perks... such as MoM, Deliverance, Second wind etc. Some perks actually did have their numbers tuned up such as Gearhead or PTB hangman trick and we were like "yay we can use another information perk" and what happen to those perks? INSTANTLY gutted.
What does that say about dev regarding perks? They do not want diverse perk builds. If they ever change a perk, It will be because they want to Omega buff the perk into meta level and whenever they decide gut perk, its not tone down x perk, its straight rock bottom erase perk from the game. (See Hex:Undying & MoM for references of this).
There are a lot of bad perks that actually need function reworks yes.
However there are a ton of perks that could be fixed with number changes, that is a true statement. I never said it was the majority.
Do i need to really start listing all the perks out?
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@Maelstrom10 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882260#Comment_1882260
But all the best killers in the game are m1 killers... what?
it literally only restricts like, a pig or demo being able to effectively use it. hell demo comes with it and can't use it on his shred. blight struggles to use it, its bad on billy and huntress, and you'd find a twins hard pressed to use it.
yet nurse spirit freddy can all use it just fine?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882389#Comment_1882389
yeah thats what im thinking too, it's just so odd to me that it has one, despite not really being based around basic attacks like other perks that directly are influenceing attacks (Still find it weird knockouts restricted, but i atleast kind of understand due to its powerful effect)
The weakest killers in the game are the M1 killers. Freddy is the only exception to this.
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We currently need perk buffs, nerfs, reworks way faster than they are doing them.
At least half the perks could honestly be fixed with simply number changes. These are very quick changes that could be made with minimal work.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
@Blueberry sorry i dragged you into this 🤣🤣🤣
It's okay lol.
I was tempted to almost not even enter the conversation as this is honestly beating a dead horse type of conversation. I've already had this same conversations like dozens and dozens of times throughout the years on the forums and it's all the same stuff. Every time I wish i had just saved the posts so I could go back to copy/paste my thoughts to not have to always retype everything.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882597#Comment_1882597
I'm not gonna lie I didnt full get the entirety of what you said but I get the gist. And yeah average players suck but even good players lose. Idk I think this is a hard topic if you try and go into detail about skills. Because even if you have an amazing 3 person swf who does tournaments but 1 solo you can still win once you capitalize. Idk tho but what I can say is she is one of the easiest killers in a regular setting. Also I messaged you on discord
We could look at another example that illustrates the complete opposite to get where I'm going.
So in average matches and in most match outcomes Nurse loses. We know this by objective data provided by the devs. So, by this data do we conclude that Nurse is bad? Of course not.
How do we see Nurses true objective stance? We look at good vs good players
So just in the same essence that Nurse losing most matches doesn't mean she's bad, Spirit winning many matches doesn't imply she's easy. This is because we have to factor in that it's not just how easy it is for you to play them, but also how easy it is for survivors to play against them. IE the level of difficulty there is in Spirits counter play is what can make her seem like she's easier to play.
This is also if we ignore the data from the devs showing that technically Spirit doesn't win that much.
I think more matches are won on Spirit by what the survivors are doing incorrectly rather than what the Spirits done correctly in other words.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882571#Comment_1882571
Survivors generally not being great doesn't equate to her power not being easy to use it can be both. I decided after 32+ games with a killer and using their power that it was easy to pick up and grasp relatively quickly. That might be different for you, but for me it was easy. So, logically I would think Spirit is easier than basic m1 killers to pick up and play for other experienced killers.
Subjectively? Sure
Ease by outcome of match? Sure
Where I disagree is objectively compared to other killers based on skill needed, not outcome of match, as I think those are very different things that I've been trying to illustrate the difference between here today.
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@Komodo16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882122#Comment_1882122
She Requires Skill but not much. Maybe at tournament level play against swf that really gen rush
I'm referencing good vs good matches and skill comparatively to others killers, not isolated skill as that's more subjective.
That is to say a statement that Spirit has an easier time on average against average players would be a statement I'd more agree with. That's because this statement focuses more on average matches and on match outcomes than it does her actual status of skill requirement in a more objective stance.
I do think these are saying two very different things in other words.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882522#Comment_1882522
Yeah, no. 32 games with a killer is definitely enough to decide how you feel about the killer. Do you genuinely think that in what was at least 32 games (likely more because I didn't get 50k bp every game) that I only went against boosted survivors? Because I find that harder to believe than Spirit just being easy for experienced killers to pick up.
I never said 32 games wasn't enough to decide how you feel about a killer.
What I said was that 32 games wasn't enough to have a good enough understanding of a killer to be able to rationally come to the forums arguing about the ease of a killer comparatively to other killers. You can decide how you feel about a killer after 32 games personally, but that doesn't mean it's an objective status of said killer.
"Do you genuinely think that in what was at least 32 games (likely more because I didn't get 50k bp every game) that I only went against boosted survivors? Because I find that harder to believe than Spirit just being easy for experienced killers to pick up."
No, I don't think that. You probably did go against some above average players in those matches. However, above average isn't what we're talking about. We're talking about good vs good. Above average isn't good as even average in DBD is quite bad.
Like just because I can win 50 matches in a row at red ranks with Clown doesn't mean Clown is good.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882532#Comment_1882532
Well ok, well compared to using say Blight or Nurses power, 2 that are generally considered fairly difficult from what I gather, she doesn't even come close. I personally also find her easier to play than the aiming killers like Huntress and ect., don't know if others feel the same. I could also potentially see her power as also easier to just use well than the trapping killers since she doesn't need set up or similar map knowledge or anything.
She's very much on the level of most basic killers, all her power is is a speed boost while invisible. Which is very strong, but very simple.
Oh of course, that's why I said probably top 5, not top. I would also put Nurse, Blight and Huntress above her.
"She's very much on the level of most basic killers, all her power is is a speed boost while invisible. Which is very strong, but very simple."
I feel that's a bit disingenuous. It isn't just an invisible stealth boost. She is also giving all of the survivors a stealth...that is not a small caveat by any means. She also can't brute force a hit since she's 110%. You could be a Trapper that just sucks a putting traps down correctly and still brute force hits since you're 115%.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882507#Comment_1882507
But I also said she's still easy. Maybe not hold W hit M1 easy, but easy. Like I also said, its not necessarily that she's easier than playing an M1, But she's still easy. Harder than M1 maybe, hard in general no.
Well where do we draw our reference material for easy?
Compared to the rest of the killer roster she is not easy. This is where I have been comparing from in my previous posts.
If we're not basing it on anything then we could just say DBD in general is easy. Sure I can agree DBD in general is easy. Without basing it on anything saying something is easy doesn't really have much weight to me as it's extremely subjective. By comparing it to other killers we start to make it more objective. More, not de facto though still.
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@Kolonite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1882493#Comment_1882493
I don't care about new players playing spirit because they'll either quit or become experienced. So, I only care if it's easy for experienced killers. She's easy. Not every killer is easily picked up by an experienced killer and played very well while using their power. Spirit's power is very easy to use lmao
"This is an insanely small sample size. I would never be on these forums arguing with someone about how easy a killer is with that small of a sample size."
At LEAST 32 games isn't a small sample size
Okay if you want to go that route then we can talk experienced vs experienced player.
The problem is your sample size is not experienced vs experienced. Red ranks are polluted with bad players currently from a flawed ranking system and the last rank reset change. This is has made bad survivors pile up in red ranks that have no business being there. IE even in red ranks we are playing realistically red-green players. That is a lot of potatoes.
If we were doing actual good vs good players you would not be picking up Spirit easily.
Also, 32 matches is insanely small.