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Blaconia

Blaconia

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Blaconia
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  • @Rokku_Rorru said:

    Clown is one of the main offenders of this Haste stack change, so I'd really not like to deal with him zooming around quickly, a lot use it to tunnel with STBFL + Rapid and it's not great to go against.

    I'm losing my fast wolf build on Dracula too, so I understand but they are not healthy for this game.

    Well Rapid Brutality or any haste perks won't be relevant on clown unless the player is exclusively using pink bottles (which is irrelevant to this discussion).

    If you're worried about clowns tunneling people out, pink bottles with its 15% hinder/forced medium vaults (medium vault = ignore endurance) will always be stronger than whatever yellow haste stacking rapid can do for you now.

    Assuming the clown player does use their yellow bottles (which many, even major clown mains, almost never do) there will be zero reason to bring a haste perk. This change will instead encourage them to bring the stronger stbfl and slowdowns to tunnel someone out.

    If this addon does swap the haste/hinder exactly (like yellow/purple giving 20/5) it'll still be weaker than current clown because A. yellow bottles have an activation delay (which makes yellow only much weaker on maps like Lery's and Hawkins) and B. survivors can also benefit from the gas and zoom around too.

    Also whether or not haste stacking is unhealthy for the game (I don't think it is), it's fun and this update removes something fun.

    in With haste stacking dead, clown addon idea that significantly buffs yellow/nerfs pink bottles. Comment by Blaconia

  • @Angerydoge said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850013#Comment_3850013

    I agree with you now, but do still think that some slugging situations need to be addressed, specifically 4 man slug.

    To be clear in my op im talking from a solo q perspective, after looking into how powerful basekit UB could be in SWF I now believe it could be abused. From a solo q perspective I think it could be balanced but disabling game aspects depending on SWF would be bad design. Not sure if you read my new idea but I think it would be a lot better.

    Basically you get a "pick up Token". When every living survivor is downed everyone gets one token, this token is removed if they are picked up (not by killer) by any means. Basically if 3 survivors are down, they cannot pick themselves up. Only if the killer (not things like plot twist) downs the 4th survivor does everyone get a token that can be used to pick themselves up. This solely discourages the most unfun parts of slugging while still allowing for full use of power, and cannot be abused by SWF unless the killer purposely downs the last survivor. To clarify, survivors still have to fully recover, there wouldn't be a button to instantly pick yourself up with no progress. It would just allow the bar to be fully filled by yourself. For example if the killer gets all 4 people down instantly its basically still a game over.

    I think this could actually work.

    Maybe to be really safe, maybe a survivor can only pick themselves up if on top of your token + fully recovered they've also been slugged for at least 60 seconds.

    This is my bias here, but I think maybe give a 5-10 second buffer after the 4th down so people who are just 4 man slugging then immediately hooking can still do that.

    A survivor could even recharge their token if everyone gets slugged for a further 60 seconds, but not sure of the specifics.

    in Basekit Unbreakable Comment by Blaconia

  • Yeah dbd hasn't felt like a Labour of Love with the many many bugs (multiple game-breaking), terrible servers, the SM gutting, random balance changes and new maps.

    For me, Path of Exile was the obvious nomination. While I'm sure bhvr is doing their best, you can watch the lead devs at GGG talk about poe2 and see that there's so much excitement, love and care being put into their game — I'm at the point of refusing to put more money into DBD until things change for the better but I'm gladly about to put 45 AUD into POE2's early access in a few days.

    in No... I Will Not Be Voting For DBD For The Steam "Labor of Love" Award... Comment by Blaconia

  • ok ngl the haste is super based but probably the safest buff I want is:

    • If counterforce shows you a totem, that totem aura is always visible whenever you're within 8m of that totem specifically.

    edit: I also think something could be done to make blessing faster too, but not sure how it would work. Maybe that's the job of another perk like small game lmfao.

    in buff counterforce with a speed boost after cleansing or show a totem a bit closer Comment by Blaconia

  • @Angerydoge said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849218#Comment_3849218

    I don't really get your argument, like matchmaking is bad so excessive slugging is required? If a killer manages to get more than 2 survivors down and they know that there isn't anyone who could save (flashlight, stun, flashbang and so on) there is no reason why they shouldn't hook the downed survivors. If you read my post you would see that I actually say that I think extending the timer for recovery is probably a good idea to allow for optimal power usage while still giving survivors options.

    Furthermore, a lot of toxic groups already all run UB anyway, they are already getting this value.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3849237#Comment_3849237

    I agree with the concept of giving more incentives to hooking survivors instead of slugging, however I fail to see how many of your suggested changes would address this. Giving mini pop may be a good idea as it is an instant available reward for hooking. Furthermore, I don't really see how basekit UB would be a punishment for killers.

    The intended killer playstyle is that even if survivors are downed for a short period of time they are still eventually picked up and are hooked so the match progresses. Following my idea that the recovery time is increased to allow for killers to get decent use out of their powers, this wouldn't really effect how killers who don't excessively slug play the game. Furthermore disabling this feature in games with 4 man SWF (potentially 3 man too) would remove chances of it being abused.

    The main situation that needs to be removed (in my opinion) is 4 man slugging, at least in non 4 man SWF scenarios. I've had a few games over the past week where this happens and I literally just have to get up and do something else while everyone bleeds out.

    Potentially a better idea is giving everyone a chance to pick them selves up when everyone is down, i.e- a token system, once you have picked yourself up or are picked up the token is removed, and everyone has to go down again for them to be regained. This still provides the disincentive for 4 man slugging while giving killers the ability to snowball, furthermore it removes any potential abuse.

    I should have been clearer — I wasn't sure how you would add more incentives (or rewards) for hooking, just that it would help, and the ideas were just ideas to start. That said, "buff hooking perks" does a lot of heavy lifting, but one example is to buff pain res back to 25% (but deactivate it when a survivor dies). The issue I experience now is there are so many obstacles to hooking but little incentive to do so when I could just move onto my next chase instantly. It's viable on not just S tiers, but weak killers like clown.

    Basekit UB is a really artificial way of nerfing slugging that punishes killers for slugging (in contrast to rewarding hooking), just like anti-camp artificially counters face camping without addressing strong campers like huntress.

    My biggest issue with basekit UB is that you can force the killer to slug - bgp pallet saves, flashbang/flashlights (with the save buffer), breakdown and dying corner, and flip flop power struggle all force the killer to slug. Remember when hooks didn't respawn? It would create hook deadzones where survs dying corner would force the killer to slug. Basekit UB in all of these situations creates a lose-lose situation where no matter what, the killer cannot win and is punished for… succeeding in a chase and daring to hook as intended.

    Imagine your first down - you pick up Mikaela, and Ace runs up with BGP to sabo your hook at 100% speed. Do you try to go to another hook? No you drop the Mikaela and chase the Ace - notice dropping gives Mikaela 20% extra wiggle and makes hooking her impossible, at which point basekit UB punishes you by her getting up for free while her teammates do gens. It doesn't matter that Ace had to be off gens to do this, hooking also forces a surv off a gen and this also delays that first hook.

    You say hooking is intended gameplay (and I agree) but without basekit UB, tell me why I shouldn't just swap out Pain Res/Pop/Grim/DMS/GOP for perks like infectious and eruption and just immediately start chasing the next closest survivor? Remember I'm not wasting time hooking, I'm deleting most of the meta surv perks, flashlights do nothing and a survivor still has to get off a gen to pick them up. I remember one game I 4 man slugged but the time I humoured them and hooked someone, I immediately got hit by OTR. The game encourages slugging, and basekit UB would artificially "solve" it at the cost of punishing killers without actually addressing why slugging might be too strong or incentivised over hooking.

    You also can't disable features for people playing in SWFs, that's punishing people for playing with their friends. Instead focus on features that bring solo queue players up to SWF level.

    I want BHVR to actually try limiting slugging where it's problematic (knock out, billy, twins, singularity) without interrupting intended play and see if further changes are necessary once those changes go live. I really do think with those changes slugging becomes a lot less problematic. In my too many hours playing the game, I haven't found 4 man slugging that common - I mostly only see it and find it hard to counter if knock out is in play or it's a killer who's good at slugging (billy, twins, singularity). Address them and you deal with a lot of the issue. In cases where that fails, you can also provide a give up option, for example slugged survivors could choose to bleed out faster.

    in Basekit Unbreakable Comment by Blaconia

  • tl;dr Reward hooking instead of punishing slugging. Address slugging where it's problematic, don't slap a bandaid basekit UB on it.

    "Problematic" slugging isn't that common, and it usually happens to counter survivor actions like sabo or is enabled by perks like knockout or killers like billy, twins and singularity. The issue is there is often little incentive to hook but many incentives to slug. Hooking

    • risks BGP flashbang/pallet saves, sabo, flip flop power struggle etc to deny my hooks
    • gives survivors access to a lot of insane perks like Deli, OTR, DS, DH, Resurgence, Shoulder the Burden, We'll Make it, Reassurance/Cama to name a few
    • makes me deal with anti-camp, whereas I can just freely protect slugs
    • makes me spend time hooking that I could just be moving onto my next chase

    Slugging counters the above. I might see unbreakable, wglf and exponential, but that's the tradeoff of often deleting over half of the survivors' hook perks perks in the match. Without hooking, chases are a lot faster so the need for gen regression goes down so the killer can stack info/slugging perks. (nerf knockout bhvr!!!)

    Instead of basekit UB to punish slugging which you often have no choice about, incentivise hooking, including something like:

    • Basekit mini pop, 10% total gen kick after hooking
    • Buff hooking perks.
    • Nerf the anti face camp mechanic. Remove it in the 2v1. (in this scenario, specifically address killers who are good at camping like huntress and bubba)
    • Restructuring sacrifice bloodpoints so you can actually get 10k points without late game hooks, and give a lot of points like ~1500 BPs for fresh hooks to reward splitting pressure.

    Certain killers and perks make slugging too strong — you need to nerf their slugging potential without hurting their chase (counterbuff chase when necessary), examples include billy, twins, and singularity.

    • Nerf knockout - BHVR if you're reading this nerf knockout. I know it has a low pickrate but it's a fundamentally unfun perk that punishes solo queue.
    • Singularity - survivors should immediately lose slipstream when downed
    • Billy - chainsawing a survivor should put Billy's overdrive on cooldown for ~30 seconds or until he hooks, and if necessary give overdrive charges when hooking
    • Twins - tbh I don't know, maybe to start make Victor not give killer instinct when near a slug to make protecting slugs harder and bring back giving Charlotte haste after Victor downing a surv but make it stop when she starts chase with a survivor.

    On slugging for the 4k — I usually hook unless I know where the 4th is but when I do I have to deal with anti-camp. I can't camp and if I try to find the 4th they can sneak in for the unhook. Especially if there are multiple gens left, this drags out the game even after the survivors have lost so why shouldn't I just always slug for the 4k?

    So yeah, instead of adding a punishment in the form of basekit unbreakable how about just address slugging where it's actually problematic and reward hooking more.

    Also - camping, tunnelling and slugging are just tactics. They're not bad manners, cheap or unreasonable. They're just methods to win the game that have their times when they are strongest. The reality is that

    2v8 caging mechanic is not the solution either - that completely eliminates all strategy of survivors choosing where to die. Imagine ARP with a 3 gen at main. Survivors should take chases to shack but 2v8 caging will send them back to the 3 gen. That encourages dying in the 3 gen (terrible macro) which just encourages slugging because the 3 gen is right there to protect.

    in Basekit Unbreakable Comment by Blaconia

  • For the People, Clean Break. either Invocation, Moment of Glory — as with all things, changing your strategy after a string of defeats might lead to surprising results.

    in Break For It achievement Comment by Blaconia

  • @Archael said:

    First thing BHVR should do is to make survs an actual team with common goal.

    Right now survs not always tries to escape killer but also to play selfish, competitive against other survs.

    For example - If my sacrifice will make all 3 other survs escape I did not won even tho I participated in a win. And if my lack of sacrifices means killer killed those 3 guilys but I lived both me and a killer won. This should not be the case in both: competitive game and cooperative role.

    Survs should not die on hooks, and game rules have to tweaks to accommodate to that. Survs should either loose or won together at the end of a match. Then we can start actual balance

    I saw an excellent suggestion here that the 7000 escape points should be split into points awarded for not just escaping but also surviving to see all the generators completed and your teammates escaping.

    I also think 10-20% of all survivor bloodpoint earnings should be added to a shared pool that all survivors earn extra for free.

    This would reward working together as a team and punish rat plays where you let your team die for hatch.

    in So, is this the direction you are taking the game BH? Comment by Blaconia

  • @wisteriacula said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3841239#Comment_3841239

    Yes, it's a flawed system in all aspects. Could use a change

    You're right it's a flawed system, it should be weaker especially after hook stages were made 10 seconds longer, and shouldn't exist in the 2v1 scenario.

    Look again at your spirit game - camping lets your teammates complete the gens for free. It's also a spirit, so if you want to unhook one of your teammates (say Sable) can safely run up and trade just before 2nd stage. If the spirit downs the unhooker after unhook you get 10 seconds of 10% haste and endurance to make it at least somewhere which is more time waste while the 3rd survivor (say Zarina) picks up Sable while the 4th (say Mikaela) gets more free gen time.

    If the killer instead hits your endurance directly off hook, you get a speed boost to somewhere and so the spirit either commits to you which is even more free gen time for everyone else even if you get double tapped (yay!) or the spirit switches to Sable which makes getting her tunnel out harder and wastes the 70 seconds spent camping you (double yay!!!).

    I've literally versed a camping spirit with pain res DMS ruin in solo queue - they camped so they got zero perk value and we 2 or 3 outed. Either way - camping gives so much gen time so just do gens.

    @Lixadonna said:

    Anti-face Camp doesn't do squat either. Killer save more time triggering the mechanic and downing after Endurance is gone. Most Killer roster don't care about it.

    This is untrue. The presence of anti-face camp cannot save the killer time unless the survivors are bad or are solo queue players suffering from a lack of info. If the killer is face-camping, the survivor should wait until the very last second to self-unhook while their teammates slam gens. You're correct that the killer can wait or hit the endurance immediately (I've done this as killer in the 2v1), but that gives a lot of uninterrupted gen time to the survivors.

    Killer camping is 70 seconds and the follow up is a minimum 10 seconds chase + carry time. which is extended by anti-tunnel like DS/UB, OTR, exhaustion perks (and blood rush), making it to literally any pallet or window, and even some spicy combos like plot twist flip flop power struggle.

    Yes there are killers who are good at denying or just plain annoying with unhooks like huntress, clown, trickster, unknown, dracula, oni, and billy but a lot of them either suck (huntress, clown, trickster), need specific killer adjustments (nerfs in general or to unhooks) which anti-face camp changes wouldn't solve (unknown, dracula, billy), or already have limitations (oni).

    Point being, don't buff anti-camp, buff the information available to solo queue players. Let all survivors see the anti-camp progress (including if it's ready) so survivors can get a vague sense of if the killer is nearby so they know whether to slam gens or get a free unhook.

    in Anti-Camp measure deserves a full-on rework because it's done horribly Comment by Blaconia

  • Counter camping by sitting on gens - just do gens, bhvr made hook stages 70 seconds longer to help you with this. (edit, not longer, just 70 secs)

    Why after you were the first hook at 2 gens left, did none of your teammates just sit on a gen and let you rot on hook?

    This isn't an issue with anti-facecamp but with your teammates being terrible (and also a little lacking info in solo queue). At least one survivor should be on a gen in this scenario.

    If anything, I think anti-camp is too strong but all survivors should see your anti-camp progress.

    Some killers can counter anti-camp in silly ways, but I think the move isn't to buff anti-camp but to nerf certain killer powers being too strong in unhook scenarios like huntress having insane cooldowns or dracula double hitting with hellfire.

    in Anti-Camp measure deserves a full-on rework because it's done horribly Comment by Blaconia

  • @MrMori said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834519#Comment_3834519

    I think part of the problem with the 2v1 is also how little incentive there is to actually try and win or do gens, and how big the incentive is for hiding for hatch.

    If you try and do gens, you get a few measly objective points and maybe some chase points. Then at best you get hooked, die, maybe get farmed by the other survivor that runs and hides after the unhook. Worst case slugged for the 4k.

    Whereas if you hide for hatch, you have the chance not only to get 7000 survival points, which btw I think it's bad that ALL those points are given for an escape and none of them are given for things like, surviving to endgame, or the entire survivor team finishing generators. But you also get 2500 objective points from hatch too.

    So think some kind of incentive for actually doing gens or taking chase would be good. What if all BP gains are doubled while 2 players are alive for the survivors? So it's kind of "worth it" to keep playing the 2v1.

    Ok but I actually love your idea of changing some of the hatch escape points to survive until endgame points, it's a very elegant idea.

    If the 7000 escape points were instead closer to:

    • 2000 — Survive to see all generators complete
    • 1000 — Be inside the exit gate area
    • 4000 — Escape

    plus an extra 750 for each other survivor who escapes, you reward more interesting gameplay.

    • The first punishes people who let their team die for hatch as in the 2v1 or just through general rat gameplay, as well as those who let their team die, wait for hatch close and go for gate with survivor/wake up. It would instead give a well earned reward for people earning their way to endgame by surviving long enough to complete the objective.
    • The second has two purposes. Firstly, an extra reward for further objective completion by both opening the gates and making it inside. Secondly, reducing how much is earned by just leaving and letting your team die encourages people to go back into the map for altruistic plays.
    • The third should still be a hefty chunk for actually escaping in the end.

    The last would be an extra bonus for succeeding as a team and also reward dying for altruistic gameplay.

    A BP boost in 2v1 would work well I think, like how the late unhook/heal points encourage altruistic gameplay in endgame.

    I also think 20% of all survivor BP earnings should be added to a shared pool, which everyone gets on top for free.

    in Any solutions for last 2 survs? Comment by Blaconia

  • They've confirmed in their roadmap that Weave Attunement (among 7 other perks) is getting a change this month/early next month.

    I'm not a huge fan of these ideas though. I think Franklin's is only an issue with Weave, so we should wait to see the changes.

    in Why hasn't Franklin's + Weave been fixed yet? Comment by Blaconia

  • @Potato_Survivor said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834573#Comment_3834573

    So your using stats that are near a year old to make claims and the stats honestly are fairly generic at best, but i do see your point may not agree with it all but i do see it.

    third seal - you can cleanse it so it is counterable

    sloppy butcher- not sure how healing speed has anything to do with slugging

    forced hesitation - how is this at all got to do with slugging unless your silly and hanging around the killer, and it also has a CD so its not continually active.

    These your clutching at straws in my opinion these are great slow down perks for killers yes but you can slug with any perk really are you saying lets remove or nerf to the groun any perk that can even be slightly used to assist slugging?

    Reminds me when a tonne of gen regression perks got crapped on. Where does it end though? When does it truly become a actual problem to survivors basically lacking skill and just wishing to nerf any perk they feel is unfun or causing problems.

    I think its a event focused issue this sort of things generally become worse during events, lets see how it is after the event finishes. I feel this slugging "epidemic" has only been made worse because of trolls coming out during the event

    You missed the point of me including the nurse kill rate stats, which is to say that stats don't exist in a vacuum because we all know nurse is definitely not the third weakest killer. The knock out stats were on nightlight from games since the 8.3.0 patch.

    I mentioned the other perks only as evidence that the most common knockout builds all revolve around slugging, not that they need a nerf because again knockout hiding the slug aura indefinitely is the problem. How do you not understand how sloppy butcher or forced hesi help with slugging? sloppy = injured for longer = easier to down survivors = more slugging. And forced hesi makes it easier to move onto your next surv after a down if survivors are nearby.

    I only mentioned the anniversary as an aside, because I will always be a knock out hater, both in and out of events.

    in Looks like many people reached an agreement of using knockout Comment by Blaconia

  • @Potato_Survivor said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834489#Comment_3834489

    Knockout truly not the main problem i just faced a slugging nurse and trapper, it was not running knockout nor was the trapper.

    Nurse slugged at 5 gens more because the team were morons
    Trapper in end game collapse

    I have never used knockout and able to slug quite happily without the perk.

    Just on nightlights website it shows an actual decrease in its usage and appearance sure its not the be all and end all as not everybody uses it but is one of the main places i know of that is fairly comprehensive.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/4YG790UBJQN5/09a14707efe069848a940bc2c3219cd4.png

    Instead of simply going off random people word on the forum also who we all know exaggerate and great at gaslighting without a shred of actual evidence except for the typical "I was slugged and bled out for the last 10 games because of knockout" , check yourself because honestly i have in the last maybe 1 week of play been slugged 3 or 4 times and none were running knockout.

    I agree it should not be a blanket no CD map wide sort of thing there should be some limitations to it i agree but to say delete it then that silly because it is good for certain builds which do not include slugging.

    Also how a lot of the perks your wanting to nerf i think are just fine how they are tbh, i even think they should bring back the original DS but leave it so that it does not activate after the final gen pops.


    Rare things can be problematic and in need of changes. Rare but bad games are what people remember and negatively affect people's perceived enjoyment of the game. I don't need to explain why bhvr wants people to enjoy playing their game.

    I never said knock out was common nor that you need it to slug. But in games with knock out, slugging is too hard to counter because it's too hard to find your teammates in a timely manner.

    People overstate 4 man slugging because those are the bad games that they remember, but that's exactly why slugging should be addressed. I checked myself and I recently got knockout slugged by a known slugger in OCE who I've seen a few times in the past few years - he always runs knock out because the perk is good for slugging. Like I said, rare but bad things should be changed.

    Other than knock out, I don't want basekit UB but at least changes to incentivise hooking over slugging, ie make the time cost and risk of attempting to hook worth it. Certain killers also should be tweaked (e.g. lose singularity slipstream when downed and billy's overdrive should go on cooldown when chainsaw downing a surv).

    Endgame collapse slugging doesn't matter and nurse like all m2 killers (especially S tiers) is irrelevant to knockout - also slugging is the only way you can get value from knockout. Play a few games with knock out and you'll understand what I'm saying.

    If we're mentioning stats, by official February stats nurse has the lowest kill rate,

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/433-developer-update-stats

    but she hasn't been buffed because you can't blindly look at stats without context. The same applies to knockout stats, especially from nightlight which has a selection bias to more experienced and more likely skilled players, who outperform the average player. In nightlight, knockout kill rate is lowered by the most frequent appearance being adept bubba: an average and m2 killer, likely less experienced if adepting, and having two other average perks.

    Look at the rest of the most common builds. Popular slugging perks like third seal, sloppy butcher, forced hesi etc indicate the intent to 4 man slug and among those builds the median kill rate is 100%. This suggests that knockout is too good at slugging. That said it may be inflated by angry people uploading their knockout 4 man slug games.

    An aside. knockout peaks in june/july (anniversary), which reflecting common sentiment that trolls love to 4 man slug (e.g. the infamous peepeepoopoo wraith in NA West) suggests that people love to troll with knockout during events because it's effective.

    nightlight stats aren't great. which is why I'd love official stats showing killrates for each killer, with and without knock out, across games with exclusively solo players, 1 or 2 solo players, and 4 man swfs. Excluding many m2 killers that don't often m1 (especially bubba because of his adept) I would predict that knockout is a positive indicator for higher kill rates.

    in Looks like many people reached an agreement of using knockout Comment by Blaconia

  • The reality is that the game is boring in the 2v1 and changes to speed it up are good imo.

    Anti-camp currently discourages hooking in the 2v1 because you have to leave the hook and let the other survivor unhook. This forces the game to drag on which is especially stupid at 2 or more gens remaining.

    In the 2v1, remove anti-camp and provide a faster bleed out option, and you both encourage hooking and punish slugging for the 4k unless you immediately know where the 4th survivor is.

    I think surv buffs like gen speeds or haste aren't a good idea, because either the gens aren't close to done and the survivors clearly lost and don't deserve a buff or the gens are nearly done and the survivors (who can't properly win anyway) might be able to get a gate escape or two.

    in Any solutions for last 2 survs? Comment by Blaconia

  • @Potato_Survivor said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834431#Comment_3834431

    Slugging in end game is a good strategy you may dislike it but who cares if you do or not bring soul guard or something lol. Time that you all relied more on skill and countering playstyles instead of simply going "its too hard or i dont like it nerf pig"

    Maybe to prevent the slugging at 5 gens knockout only activates during end game collapse.

    I don't care about slugging in the endgame, I'm talking about how knock out specifically makes slugging too easy at all points of the game especially against solo queue players.

    I know survivors complain a lot about killer things - I play a lot of killer, with literally over 12,000 sacrifices. I just happen to also play survivor so I know what versing knock out is like (spoiler alert, miserable). There's a reason why if someone is 4 man slugging (as an m1 killer) they usually have knockout - because it's (too) effective.

    I even slug a lot (I literally play oni), I just know that knock out tips it into problematic territory (as do certain killers like billy, twins, singularity). At a certain point you can't call "skill issue!" and instead have to tell bhvr to make changes, which is why I'm here and not yelling at the people I'm versing in game who run it.

    inb4 "you're secretly a survivor main" - I want so many things on the survivor side nerfed — deli, otr, resurgence, flashbang, revert to 60 second hook stages, weaker anti-camp and even resi and deja vu, to name a few off the top of my head. But that's not relevant to this thread.

    #deleteknockout

    in Looks like many people reached an agreement of using knockout Comment by Blaconia

  • @Potato_Survivor said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834081#Comment_3834081

    See at least this person can come in and give a actual valid response and a way that it can be reworked to make it fairer, not as brutal on soloq etc, instead of the typical braindead replies of "Oh its not fun lets nerf it to the ground".

    Don't get me wrong. I'd gladly see knock out nerfed into the ground because it's a stupid perk that promotes stupid gameplay, at least until bhvr can figure out what to do with it. I just find it more productive identifying a perk's issues and the negative gameplay impacts, and nerfing that in particular.

    @Yoshirama said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3834081#Comment_3834081

    I’m actually agree with this except the sabo and flashlights nerfs. Sabo was buffed in order to encourage survivors to use toolboxes on hooks instead of gens, kinda funny because it doesn’t happen, a sabo squad is rarely to face. And according to BHVR’s stats flashlights save are even rarer lmao

    My hot take is that all items are in a very uninspired 1-dimensional state, with a lot of missed potential for addons to have interesting effects beyond just "wow, gens go fast!". That aside, 100% sabo speed is just too free and having 50% speed on commodious just doesn't make sense. With flashlights, the hardest part of getting saves is actually being in position for it, which the early buffer doesn't affect.

    in Looks like many people reached an agreement of using knockout Comment by Blaconia

  • BHVR hasn't nerfed it because it has a very low pickrate.

    I'm not inherently opposed to slugging but I agree that knock out needs a change - it encourages and enables slugging that in particular hurts solo queue players.

    The problem with the perk is the infinite duration of hiding the slug's aura.

    While there is a use case to safely slug people temporarily while you check on somewhere else, knockout 99% of the time means exclusively 4 man slugging which again mostly hurts solo queue players who can't otherwise communicate where they died.

    4 man slugging only works if you get hits and downs faster than the survs can get heals and pick ups (while also doing gens and before a bleedout happens) and not knowing where your teammates are bleeding out delays the picking up to an unhealthy amount.

    The hidden aura aspect of knock out needs one or both of:

    • Timer (< 30 seconds)
    • Stops working when someone else gets downed

    Note that this leaves the slower recovery/crawl speed untouched. That way, knock out is still an effective tool to temporarily slug (the use case mentioned before) while nerfing the problematic 4 man slugging strategy it enables.

    — General Slugging Commentary Below —

    More generally, slugging is a problem in that it's too strong AND more incentivised over hooking but I do not think we need basekit unbreakable. Instead - the strength comes from perks like knockout and slugging killers like billy and twins, which each need to be addressed.

    There also need to be basekit changes to incentivise hooking like

    • more BPs for fresh hooks so we can max Sacrifice BPs without late hooks.
    • nerfs to flashbang and sabo.
    • make flashlight blinds harder again in return for bringing back lightburn for at least nurse but definitely not wraith.
    • And maybe same form of basekit mini pop (but definitely not pain res please I beg).
    in Looks like many people reached an agreement of using knockout Comment by Blaconia

  • Yes that is the game, and your job as survivor if the killer is playing for it is to deny the tunnel out as long as possible while still pressuring gens.

    That said, I agree with your point about pain res pop etc. I think pain res should deactivate when a survivor dies, and other strong perks should get similar treatment.

    in It's way too easy to camp 3 gens close to each other in a 3v1 Comment by Blaconia

  • The survivor objective is to complete the gens and escape through the gates. If the survivors don't complete the gens they lose, even if the 4th survivor escapes through the hatch (what you call trap door).

    The hatch exists so in the 1v1 the game can just end because it's not worth playing the normal game - so either the surv escapes through the hatch (which is at most just a pity win but not a real win) or the killer closes it and the 2 minute endgame collapse timer starts. If they remove the hatch, I can't wait for you to have to deal with survivors hiding in some random corner of the map for 20 minutes.

    in So much complaining about slugging for the 4k Comment by Blaconia

  • From what I've seen, the OCE situation is better than it was June-September - they even replied to my email in September saying that they had made a change and to their credit I did notice improvements.

    That said, I still see it happen, I even had a game following that email where all 4 OCE survivors got sent to some Asian server (+100 ping iirc) and got matched with an NA West killer which is obviously unacceptable.

    I've also noticed since either the tentative desync fix last week or the 8.3 midchapter that I find myself in games where my ping will spike up and down for no reason by 40-60 ping. And desync has just been happening in general. But that may just be a completely unrelated issue.

    All that said, I agree with your idea, I think the solution is to let us see our ping so we can decide if we want to play in that server or not.

    in Please fix OCE servers! Comment by Blaconia

  • People saying to "just chase someone else!!!" and "don't tunnel 5head!" have never had someone aggressively use their OTR to take a hit while you're chasing someone else. Especially egregious is when you're chasing someone and your previous hook comes in while healthy to take two hits (yes I've had this happen).

    To avoid those situations and because I think you're not being tunnelled if you've had time to heal, OTR endurance should deactivate once you get fully healed. Endurance should also deactivate after 60 seconds because if you've not been hit after 60 seconds you're either not getting tunneled (in which case why aren't you on a gen?) or you didn't need it. Those extra 20 seconds only really come into play against weaker killers but does nothing against the S tiers.

    Imagine a blight and a trapper sees an unhook cross map and wants to tunnel, the blight just rushes cross map and can get a hit in 10 seconds whereas the trapper can spend nearly 20 seconds just getting close enough to be in chase. And once they get the hit, the blight can quickly catch up while the trapper cries.

    To everyone saying OTR is the only good anti-tunnel - decisive strike, blood rush + exhaustion, resurgence and similarly we'll make it, camaraderie and reassurance (can't be tunnelled if you're on hook), for the people, flip flop power struggle (esp. with DS or plot twist), borrowed time, babysitter.

    I'm only talking about endurance needing a nerf, I don't really care about the iron will/distortion aspect.

    in Off the record Comment by Blaconia

  • I agree Pain Res should deactivate when a survivor dies, but keep the current 4 token fresh hook form and buff to maybe 25% if needed.

    4 token pain res alleviates rng issues with struggling to reach a pain res hook for each down, allowing killers to more consistently get max value from the perk.

    Not being able to pain res survivors over and over also:

    • discourages forcing hook trades on the same scourge hook, which was not only boring with how effective it was but encouraged as the best way to ensure every hook was a pain res.
    • limits synergy between pain res and current DMS, which with current DMS is the strongest the combo has ever been.
    • avoids GrimReaperJr's scenario of tunnelling a Bill and getting 3 scourge hooks for 30% regression, with the max regression instead being 20% once.

    Pain Res deactivating on survivor death makes the perk more interesting because it forces killers to decide between an early tunnel out (very good result) or 4 pain res hooks (also good) with the earliest possible kill happening at 6 hook stages. It also removes the uninteresting scenario of killers being able to tunnel someone out and then stomp in the 3v1 with pain res pop for free.

    I think in general to nerf tunnelling, instead of adding a roughly implemented measure that feels terrible to verse bhvr can organically do so by reworking perks to reward splitting pressure and punish tunnelling and pain res is the place to start. (BBQ shouldn't give BPs because BPs forcing perk meta as BBQ and prove thyself used to is uninteresting)

    in Pain Resonance Change Proposal Comment by Blaconia

  • I used the phrase "hostage holding" because that's what it felt like but I should have been clearer in my original post.

    My point about about wrapping up the game still stands - in a 1v1 situation where the generators are incomplete the survivors have lost the match and the hatch exists to finish the game so both people can move on, the fact that the killer can stand on the hatch unnecessarily drags out the game. In other words I think it's a boring and stupid scenario that shouldn't exist.

    Everyone says "do the generators" but to use the Twitter post as an example, there are four generators to complete with one survivor alive. The survivors have lost (the wraith can close hatch and down and mori the Yui immediately) and I don't think it's reasonable or enjoyable in a game meant to be for fun to expect someone to complete four generators in such a situation. 4 gens is 6 minutes plus travel time when the game could just finish.

    I also saw comments saying that they want the option to protect hatch without it automatically closing, with slugs getting adrenaline noted as a concern - to me, the ideal distance required to auto close hatch would be a small distance with a tiny buffer only to deny bodyblocking it directly. So you could even stand next right next to it but not on it, and it wouldn't force close.

    Alternatively, the system could only activate when the survivor comes within 10m or so of hatch, so you can protect it easily until the survivor appears at which point you can no longer grief by bodyblocking the hatch and must instead chase and down the survivor.

    in The hatch should automatically close if the killer stands close to it for a few seconds Comment by Blaconia

  • As an OCE player, I've been playing less because of the server issues.

    Just before I enjoyed a match on OCE servers, then when I saw high ping in the next lobby I closed the game.

    I've barely bothered playing survivor because it's not worth it with high ping. On the killer side, the game feels nearly as bad to play, and would feel even worse if I played more ping reliant killers like blight.

    in Why are OCE servers being merged with SEA/EA/MISC players? Comment by Blaconia

  • I agree with (I think genuinely) literally everything in this post and it saves me from writing up my own post but I have extra comments.

    • Firstly one positive - the new UI feels a lot faster which is understandable as the new store also runs a lot more smoothly.
    • My other general thoughts are that the new UI is more cluttered, confusing and as a result smaller.

    Customizations and Bio should be buttons in the left bar like they used to.

    • The current design adds an unnecessary click.
    • It feels weird going up to the Character selection menu (which is meant to be more general) to then go back down to customisation of the character I already have selected. I liked that in the previous design, the first button selected the character and every other left bar button related to the specific character selected.

    This would allow you to remove the subheadings (All Killers, Customizations, Bio) and remove the Play Mori button (which could show in Customisations and/or Store).

    • The menu would feel less cluttered and give more vertical/horizontal space.
    • The character select menu could also be larger.

    With a larger Characters menu, scrolling should also be fixed to scroll by a row or full page (4x3 grid) so you never see half rows.

    • This makes it look tidier and scrolling through the characters would be faster and easier.

    In the character select menu, the green tick and exclamation mark is clutter that should be removed:

    • Green tick - I know who I have selected with the massive name and the white border animation + sound is sufficient feedback to make selection feel satisfying.
    • Exclamation marks - I know this encourages viewing the store but I'm pretty much already at the point of ignoring it so it achieves nothing whilst also cluttering the menu.
    • Side note to replace this - you should instead take simple statistics on most played killers/survivors (literally just # games played in past 3 months?) for each player to receive personalised popups when a new cosmetic is released in store. For example, I might be shown an Oni skin but someone else would be shown a Deathslinger skin.

    I also miss being able to instantly switch to the next and previous characters.

    Customizations - cosmetic item tiles in each section (e.g. Outfit, Mask, Body, Weapon, Charm) should be smaller to allow more items to be shown at once. Being able to see all three equipped cosmetic items similar to the previous design would also be helpful but that's a low concern for me. As previously discussed, removing the subheadings would allow more space for this.

    • The menu is larger so it should show more items in one page. If I want to see the details of the item I can just equip it.
    • This is particularly obvious with the Charms menu, which as OP describes is not good.

    General UI - stop making everything smaller when you have unused space. In the endgame results screen this includes symbols for prestige, offerings, addons. In game this includes the player names.

    • On low resolutions/small monitors, it's harder to see what's on the screen.
    • I also personally don't like the look of unused space.
    in Character menu UI Constructive Feedback with visual aids Comment by Blaconia
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