Batzu
Batzu
About
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- Batzu
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Comments
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@Gh0st2317 said:
Been playing a few games as survivor and these have been getting a bit way too out of hand...
Genuinely, why were they scrapped in the first place?
I understand that the anti-tunneling needed a major rework, but why was anti-slugging also scrapped with it?
Because the anti slugging was a permanent unbreakable for the rest of the match after enough time down. Not a one time thing each down. This could lead to higher level play being completely unsustainable given slugging is a majorly important way to waste survivors time without incurring the risk of picking up or wasting time you could spend chasing survivors off a gen. Let's also take a minute to remind ourselves slugging and tunneling don't happen in a vacuum. Just because you aren't paying attention doesn't mean everyone else can afford to do the same. What I mean by this is that from the survivor perspective generators being done is stress relieved and means they are one step closer to reaching their goal. Viewing things from a killer's perspective, however, means rapidly mounting stress as generators done translates to an approaching loss, so given the time constraint and the stress that imposes, killers are inclined to slug so they can save time. The issue here is that because of the bleedout mechanic, bhvr are caught between a mechanic that means nothing because the time you spent on the floor empties out a chunk of your bleedout timer and a super juiced mechanic that makes normal gameplay unviable for killer if they get preoccupied with something other than the survivor they just downed. Since bhvr apparently couldn't find a sweet spot to make this anti slug functional, they opted to scrap it in the face of negative feedback since somehow bhvr has put themselves in the position where outputting mediocre updates is actually worse than doing nothing. The wisdom to put out good updates eludes bhvr so they opt to take the wisdom of waiting for a response. Getting back to the talk of player perception, put simply when you frame getting slugged as something about you rather than as something the killer made a calculation and a decision to do in context of the match, you ultimately rob yourself of the ability to learn and become a more useful teammate in survivor matches. I've mainly ignored the possibility that the slugging could be out of spite mainly because those events are typically uncommon as a whole and often mistakenly attributed to actions done for the sake of pure function and taken as malicious. Kind of like getting mad at an administrative worker for taking a long time to get back to you, when they have to process bs messages and paperwork from psychopaths like scientologists making terroristic threats and filing slapp lawsuits.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4037723#Comment_4037723
Then you use oblivious perk and you get best stealth from big tr killer instead making it normal tr which just doesnt give you almost any benefit at all.
Hey can you use more words, I have a reverse problem most internet commentors have where things are harder for me to understand if it isn't in an essay post. All I'm hearing is just use oblivious and the rest kinda makes it sound like you're responding to a different comment.
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@SoGo said:
It absolutely got nerfed and whoever says otherwise is lying or unaware.
It is now most effective for 40 meter TR killers. Who will not use it anyway.
Honestly my attitude has always been that if I wanna be stealthy I should make tr BIGGER on high tr killers so nobody even knows if I'm actually that close because scaling of tr volume gets thrown off by the fact I cover the whole map. I know more experience players probably already know but I like the fantasy regardless.
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@Lit said:
What does the community think of Ghoul's cooldown after their lunge?
The fact that ghoul can use their power and come out of it and use an M1 almost immediately seems strong to me and I feel it needs to be addressed.
It really feels that BHVR Dev's don't care that this is extremely broken as there's literally nothing you can do in open/dead space around the map.
Interested to know what others think and if BHVR should do something about it?
Ok I play some ghoul so lemme clarify, the ghoul's cooldown after power isn't fast, the slide creates an illusion of fast cd and I'm gonna break it down for ya. So what most competent ghoul players do when chasing a survivor is they only use the first charge of their power and cancel mid slide, this allows their momentum to carry them into the survivor and let them hit. I wouldn't call it tech and I say that because I would be ashamed of a fellow killer main if they couldn't figure that ######### out. Now the main way to counter slide for kaneki is to simply run in the opposite direction to create distance or focus on larger loops where they can't afford to let slide do everything and bait them into a grapple then break line of sight. Kaneki counters can actually play really similar to nurse in the sense that a lot of the skill expression that kills you on the killer end mainly focuses on controlling YOUR position and then capitalizing on you inability to preempt the killer's need for sight and sound to get a hit in. You want to break line of sight constantly and force them to focus on becoming a normal m1 killer. If you can't do that then we're at a point where I have to say SKILL ISSUE. Less of a skill issue since the skill floor on kaneki basically guarantees kills on lower tier survivors while nurse has a massive skill floor that guarantees a loss if you can's make blink uses as efficient as possible to counter the time cost of playing nurse. Also don't be an ######### and bodyblock a slide to get a pallet stun, it not only gives them a free pallet like with blight or demo, but also makes the killer think you're a smug weirdo so they become less inclined to be nice in end game chat. Not that most dead by daylight players are remotely good people but still it's worth making the air a bit less poisonous. If you use smash hit please do bait every pallet tho because from personal experience the emotional strain from seeing a survivor disappear down the horizon will slow them down. Typically a good way to gain an upper hand in a lot of dbd matches is to inflict EMOTIONAL DAMAGE, until the opponent either gets tilted and throws or quits. Ok so that's my advice essay on what is up with kaneki. Also crouch behind a tree or smth if he already lunges once, low cover obstructs enough of your body to ######### up the lock feature.
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4036771#Comment_4036771
I'd love to dig into this a little more so I can make sure the feedback makes it to the right folks. Would you be able to elaborate on why you feel this is a nerf?
Oh I play a little bit of skull merchant so I can help. Ok so the reason why this is a nerf is because attaching undetectable to drone removal applies opportunity cost to an already lackluster ability given the immediate effect of skull merchant chases. To elaborate, every time skull merchant puts down a drone she has to be IN THE SPOT WHERE SHE WANTS IT. See the problem? In all caps? She has to walk over to the space, so if you attach undetectable to removing drones, it not only forces you to either place dump drones to use for undetectable or makes you waste useful ones, but also adds a factor of you focusing your vision on other ######### but your objective when you gain undetectable. The change simultaneously adds clunk that does nothing to help with skill expression but also adds to player frustration when interacting with the power. To put it in a different way, it is emotionally exhaustive to constantly engage with systems that add complexity with no real depth.
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COLDWIND, JUST COLDWIND. My saltiest most tilted losses are always getting t bagged while watching the exit on coldwind. I have like a permanent vendetta if you were a sore winner or a sore loser on coldwind. Like no other map pisses me off like this except specifically coldwind. Like even super strong main buildings aren't as irritating as not seeing anything through the corn fields and then getting dragged in end game chat because I suck for not being able to see.
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@cclain said:
The problem isn’t that the PTR patch didn’t go live as it was, but that we still don’t have any anti-tunnel or anti-slug mechanics. Maybe on the PTB it was too strong, sure, but right now the game is basically unplayable for a lot of new survivor players, and soloQ is miserable.
On top of not releasing anti-tunnel updates, they also released a killer that can tunnel extremely easily.
So players are angry not because the broken PTR version wasn’t shipped, but because we got nothing in terms of anti-tunnel or anti-slug. Even a small patch in that direction would have been really welcome.
You hit the nail on the head with the ptb version being too strong, but you're either misspeaking or showing how new you are when you say we don't have any anti tunnel, like you know basekit borrowed time used to not be a thing right? I was there for that ######### and it sucked. It was a mediocre improvement but still an improvement. Not to say we couldn't do better in terms of stuff like anti slug but the point is to moderate what we do to punish piss poor play, that's what started basekit borrowed time in the first place. Dumbasses unhooking survivors in front of killer and feeding started these protections because punishing survivors for bad unhook timing became unsustainable and killers saw that the flaw enabled them to abuse this design philosophy to tunnel and facecamp. Now that we have shields to protect against tunneling the issue shifts and now we have to be careful with how much we pump protections in fear of the pendulum swinging to the other side and making survivors the ones taking advantage of a design flaw. A lot of people want to make how well survivors and killers are faring a matter of measuring sin and who's been coddled when the real issue is a matter of incentives and vulnerabilities..
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@[Deleted User] said:
I think the main problem with solo queue is that the biggest, most time critical decisions you can make as a survivor are mutually exclusive with other survivors' decisions in terms of positive value to the team, and comms naturally alleviate these issues. For example, if someone's on hook and someone needs to go save them, one person going to get the save is great time efficiency (assuming they can get the save without getting chased out/downed), but if two people go to get the save at the same time, that's a massive waste of time. In solo queue you don't have the comms to make these decisions efficiently, so you kind of just have to wing it based on what you see is going on with the UI and auras. Which can work if everyone has the same mindset and recognizes the same patterns, but good luck getting that with any consistency.
I think 6.1.0 made this time efficiency loss at least feel more punishing due to the added lethality of killer on a macro scale (action speed buffs) and gens being upped to 90 charges. Which are things solo queue is also punished more by, since people in a SWF can call out which pallets they've used, what gens are close to completion, what gens have been regressed, and so on. I really wish we had an IDV style quick message system to at least attempt to communicate these things to other players, but maybe they just don't want to add something like this for whatever reason.
The powercreep in killer power design (on top of the knowledge gap widening just by adding new content) also hasn't helped solo queue, but hey.
It's nice to see a fellow essay poster in the replies. Also you might be one of the few people in years I've seen properly apply the phrase powercreep. Like seeing someone correctly use a classical word. Also totally agree on the power creep bit, there's a considerable difference in versatility when it comes to later killers that creates a big disparity between old and new killers. Like I feel as if I'm pulling myself in multiple directions in ways my killer can't compensate for when I play some of the classics at higher tiers like ghostface or trapper.
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@BoopsPlease said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999236#Comment_3999236
I specifically just chose that part to reply to because I frankly have no rebuttal or agreement to make on the other points made. But I find the most fun as a survivor when I am running around playing the instruments, haven't taken off Bardic Inspiration since it was released. I know i am actively putting myself at a disadvantage when playing because I realize the perk is bad, but I enjoy it. The outcome of the game doesn't matter to me as long as I had fun. (Do i enjoy the state of the game outside of that? No, but that's a different conversation).
Ok that is what I mean by fun but I guess I should be more precise in the sense that by fun I just mean any other objective than gens and honestly it should be more generalized to any extraneous activity that takes walking time and progress bars. Like bardic is fun but it isn't a huge waste of time like searching for totems or chests, so that gets a free pass. I appreciate you being polite in response in spite of how the reply could be interpreted tho. While sub optimal perks are something that bogs down play a bit, it never really does so in a way that ruins the game on survivor side, I more mean your actual behavior (heheh) in the game.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3997354#Comment_3997354
I am absolutely aware that not all killers tunnel and camp, and have not claimed so anywhere in my post. I have also always been one of those people that is completely against this us vs them rhetoric as it doesn't help anyone and generalising one side is completely stupid.
But I am also getting tired with this game, and it's in my opinion bad decisions. This would have been a great patch for solo survivors and for the health of the game in general.
I would feel bad for all the reasonable killer mains if queue times increased further for killers, but it would be 100% deserved to all killer mains that immediately started doom posting about these changes, especially before even trying them in the ptb, and to those killer mains that tunnel and camp. I would be beyond happy for those people to have to wait through very long queue times. And as I wrote, this would pressure BHVR into releasing these new systems as soon as possible.
Dunno man, you're kinda downplaying that you misunderstood what was happening with the update and then saying you don't care if killers as a whole get affected by the blowback as long as it hurts the ones you had a bad engagement with online. Like I know it's callous and stupid and mean to just say touch grass but legitimately please go outside and maybe invite an online friend or two to meet up. Like I live near this cool chinese store that's run by old ladies called and it's one of the best places to go for neat and different snacks to head home with. Like there's a lot of revitalizing stuff you can do that necessitates walking away from the game. I want you to log off and go hang out at cool places because this clearly affects you. Also try out blood sausages, they kinda suck after the first one as the aftertaste ramps up, sorta like bacon but with a more exotic flavor.
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@BoopsPlease said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3999218#Comment_3999218
No, they do have the infrastructure to do that. Because DBD is inherently not meant to be played to win. Especially from the survivor side, if you win you win. Once you change your mindset to "just enjoy the game" it becomes significantly more fun.
I feel that this is too imprecise and non descriptive to actually give a good response to but I'm going to try anyway. I guess I can start with the fact that you focused on infrastructure and kinda just refuted it with nothing descriptive or precise and haven't really asked about whether or not more gens and hooks would be a good idea to pad out time to allow for fun.
One final addition is that you aren't really acknowledging the cost to your ability to enjoy the game if you consistently lose more and perform worse when you take time to do stuff like totems and chests as opposed to focusing on gens. So I guess if I could pick any one of these things to ask you to answer I'd like to know exactly what you do for fun instead and how it affects your game. Because another part of it is I think there might be a disconnect with what we're talking about with fun and/or free play.
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@CompetitifDBD said:
Theres alot to unpack here, but we should all want the best of both roles. Heres my diagnosis and recommendations. Hopefully no matter your stance, you agree.
I'm not gonna bore anyone with personal life and #########, but I am a very unbiased player when it comes to whats best for the game's balance. I'm actually studying Game Design in University at the moment, because ever since I started playing DBD in 2016, I've always wanted to work for DBD's Balance Team.
- The Anti Tunnel and Anti Slug machanics had good intentions, specifically for Casual players as stated by the devs.
- They were noticeably overtuned and strengthened forms of frustrating gameplay for killers, like bully squads forcing garunteed pallet saves.
- The changes make all forms of tunneling too hard to do, and if you manage to succeed, you were severely punished.
What tunneling I find unacceptable is tunneling at 5-3 gens. It's unnecessary, its annoying to vs, and this update fixed it very well.
What form of tunneling is acceptable to me is when almost all generators have been repaired, and forcing someone out of the game to reduce pressure is the only way to win at this point in a match. This update destroyed all forms of tunneling by making catching a recently unhooked survivor too hard and long, while actively removing your ability to defend generators if you succeed in killing them.
Simple number tweaks to the punishment requirements and a new requirement can easily salvage the machanic, I'd have no problem with it as either role if: A, the minamum stage requirement to avoid giving free gen speed was changed to 4 stages and 3 or more generators are incomplete. B, killing a survivor after hooking them previously to make all forms of generator defense disabled should also require 3 or more incomplete generators to trigger. C, when 2 generators or less remain, the Hook Protection duration is lowered to 10 seconds.
This way, actually tunneling someone (trying to kill them when spreading hooks can still be an option) is properly punished for, while tunneling in end game isn't because thats necessary to win as majority of the roster.
Anti Slug is bad simply because its a direct buff to SWFs and doesn't help casuals much at all. The auto recovery is good, but also giving basekit Tenacity wasn't. Choosing between recovering and crawling was strategic, you either try to get picked up while the killer is away, or you set up for a grasp save. This update made it far too easy for coordinated groups of survivors to garuntee saves with Power Struggle and Flip Flop, as well as any Background Player + Flashlight builds. It was quite literally impossible to avoid getting stunned if these players managed to get in your lobby.
The machanic's basekit unbreakable is quite flawed. A strong effect that is never going to occur unless you're vsing a Bully Squad. It can be fixed by: A, making the resolve bar (Anti Slug) pause when survivors are near you, similarly to Anti Camp. B, make recovering or crawling a choice again. C, reduce the timer to 30 seconds, but it has to be regained each time its used. D, basekit Soul Guard if the killer is ground camping, but this and the machanic entirely disables when all generators are complete. E, the machanic completely disables when 2 survivors remain.
This aims to target extreme slugging only, while not making survivors completely immortal if they coordinate builds together. Anti Slug will actually help you pick yourself up more often if the killer is capable of picking you up, but chooses not to. Slugging for the 4K is still a viable strategy, since the 2 remaining Survivors can't use it anymore.
- In an attempt to balance these machanics further, the devs temporarily delayed their release, stating they want these features to be "less punishing for killers." For reasons stated, this statement is completely true and quite frankly seemed kindof obviously broken.
There is nothing wrong with that. They aren't too sure what should be done to balance it quite yet, and its a big machanic that's going to need testing before hitting live servers. Its not something they can just quickly number buff and send out post PTB, coding other changes takes time and alot of work, believe me, I'd know.
What I want to know is, do you agree? I'll put a poll, and I want unbiased explanations on your thoughts. Thank you.
I feel like you spelled mechanic as "machanic" as a way to lure out redditors. Not to say I ain't a lil reddit but the frequency of the typo feels like bait.
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@oecrophy said:
Sarcasm aside, how what can we as a community to do to make Tunnelling, and by extension other unfun strategies, less of a issue? Simple really, take a load off and relax. Killers don't have to tunnel, Survivors don't have to rush generators, both sides can take in a match to goof off, chase each other, maybe get some funny clips. Matches don't need to end in 5 minutes nor do does someone have to be taken out in 2 minutes, this is a casual game with a lot of RNG and balancing so comically bad its almost intentional. Nobody has to play like this is a competitive tournament with money on the line.
maybe it’s just my mentality, but peak DBD is when both sides play for the W.
Tunneling’s a legit fun part of that. First chase? I’ve got the whole map and every resource to work with — that’s real interaction. After the tunnel’s done, the next person in line has way less to play around; map’s trimmed, pallets gone — way spicier, way more pressure. If the killer keeps target-swapping and no real chase happens, it’s mid. its not fun the moment the Kiler only tries to get people at dead zone gens with constant target switching.
I like the tunnel, I like breaking a hard tunnel, I like clean body blocks and team play. ‘Let’s not try’ matches are gray and boring.
Love when both sides sweat for the win.
but.. i dk, I’m into 1v1s too. Kinda the same as a tunnel — you just try to hold it forever and burn every resource on the map.
I don’t mind when both sides play for the win. Anything else is boring,.. no? :/
I kinda hafta agree with this sentiment here, like there are times when a survivor puts me on tilt, but man there are times when I put real ######### energy into a chase at my best and a survivor responds to that and I love the chase. What kills it for me most of the time is that games end so ######### fast regardless of the result, like 90% of the complaints about dead by daylight would disappear if the games were designed to last longer by default so people could give their best when the time is right. Like I play pig with a hex totem kinda stalling build where I have 3 dud hexes and one dangerous hex like devour hope or ruin and then I use the beartraps to force players into side objectives, then I just spend the whole game chasing. even when devour gets cleansed I get the time I need to put out my best because instead of slowdown or block which can be mitigated with more time commitment, players just have to leave to solve a problem so I get slowdown and aura read the second they finally cleanse a hex. My point with the digression is that trying your hardest to win isn't really the problem, the problem is when you go nuclear on the opposition and the game can't handle that so it breaks down and ends super fast. We are not given the resources to enjoy our toys most of the time so it all boils down to comp strats. In fact hex pig is a pretty comp heavy strat but It's what I like and the fact it's the only build I can really remember says a lot about how hard it is to find something good to work with out here.
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@BoopsPlease said:
You are saying people aren't allowed to play a game they paid for the way they wanted? Not every single game needs to be played exactly the way some youtuber told you. Someone going into the match to do a chest build or to complete a challenge is still well within their rights to play the game that way.
The problem here is even though you are correct in the fact that owners of a game are at liberty to play how they want, but we have to acknowledge that we don't really have the infrastructure to support going around and doing side objectives all game without seriously harming the chances of the whole team. If dead by daylight revolved around longer matches fundamentally maybe we could have room for that but put simply, all we got is perks to work with to actually make doing side objectives viable outside cleansing hexes. Most players haven't bought every single dlc that lets them have the tools to finish side objectives efficiently. So we're kinda caught in this catch 22 where even though in a good world you would be correct in making this statement, there are several underlying failures that make free play impractical in dead by daylight. While people can say it's a party game or a comp game, fundamentally it's a game that runs against a time limit scaling with player skill, and because skill is reflected in distracting the killer or getting gens done efficiently, this kinda takes up the space meant for side objectives. So I would posit the fault is not necessarily with the players as a whole, but rather with development and directors for making a game that rushes players rather than giving them time to enjoy themselves. Hook stages and gens aren't fundamentally bad but there needs to be a ton more of both to make the game last long enough for personal enjoyment to be part of the discussion in a way that doesn't end with resolving to play like a sweatlord or gambling on whether you even have fun.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3998692#Comment_3998692
Survivor mains just don't seem to be as loud. There are a few here, but I see many more that are more attached to the killer role, even though there must be more people playing survivor for the numbers to work.
Maybe that's because a 40% goal bakes-in the expectation or failure for survivor. Most of the time I just feel beaten down as survivor and it's kind of exhausting. As killer, not so much. I feel like I've always got a good chance. I've lost 10 survivor matches in a row more than once and that feels depressing but not abnormal. I've never lost ten killer matches in a row.
Just chiming in to say you started this post talking exactly how I would if I were to bounce off a topic.