Alcuin
Alcuin
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- Alcuin
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@M4dBoOmr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3046826#Comment_3046826
Depends on the killer, dbd is not an fps it's more about how to run tiles/loops and knowing the map etc than fast mouse movement
True. I should have been more specific. My most played killers are Deathslinger and Huntress and do fine. I want to try Nurse, though, but not on PS4 against real-life survivors on the other side. If I'm still playing the game when the bot mode materializes, I'll use it for practice.
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PC always has the advantage with crossplay games. DBD is not that bad in comparison to others but killer is easier on PC, for sure.
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
The biggest problem with OTR is that you can get all 3 MoM Stacks in 1 chase
No sweatlord survivor runs MoM and no sweatlord killer is worried about it. I want to get banned from this forum.
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@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3041042#Comment_3041042
ok
First: These changes are not small.. they are massive. Game altering. We're talking about the difference between getting a hit and not getting one and if you don't think a decreased wipe animation, with decreased movement speed from said hit is big. then quite literally you are waiting for a patch that will never come. If you don't get why this makes a massive difference, then WHAT CHANGES DID YOU WANT? These cannot get much bigger. Ok. Majority of killers in DBD are already viable, and the few that aren't can become viable through the use of perks and addons. Over the majority of ranks killers were fine. In fact killers wee overperforming up until the high ranks. Where survivors realise that nothing for survivors matter except for generators. They start slamming gens in 5 minutes and suddenly the kill rates swap massively. The problem is, people don't remain bad at the game. They improve, and they eventually reach that high skilled threshold. "so fix the high ranks." I hear you say. The problem is every single high end killer picks Blight, or Nurse or if they pick a casual killer, they stack themselves with perks and addons. So now killers at the high end still stack themselves, they are just stronger for no reason. Its insane, and of course people say "This won't do anything to fix wraith, or trapper or clown." Imagine getting universal buffs, and still complaining. Survivors get one small buff every like 3 years and killers go mental, but killers get constant buffs, almost one a year and are never happy. What's the point? Why even buff killers, if they get yet another buff to all killers, then complain that its not enough.
Second : camping. 5 seconds of BT? That's the game changing solution to camping. Its such a joke, the fact people are even pretending that this will have an impact are insane. 5 seconds. To get to a pallet or window. That's of course assuming you can even get them off the hook. This won't even address killers like leatherface of Oni, or Hillbily. Not even addressed. But ok lets say the killer is camping, and you its not leatherface or a strong camping killer, and the killer doesn't force a hook trade thanks to the decreased hit time. The pallet will need to be a safe pallet, because if its a standard wall with a pallet in the middle, that survivor is going down without teammates. 5 seconds will do nothing. Even worse, camping has been buffed because passive slow down perks like deadlock were not addressed, and the decreased wipe animation, and the extra 50 seconds a match. That is pretty massive when we are talking about 120 seconds to finish all gens. Oh survivors have off the record great we just swapped BT with off the record, way to not address the problem at all.
Lastly: the reason why I brought up competitive games is this insane idea that some killers have that all killers should be viable. No competitive game is like that. Every single competitive game uses a meta. Certain things that are not meta are just not going to be used. What is the baseline power you want? Nurse? Blight? Huntress? Because if you want Nurse to be baseline, then you are insane. But maybe you don't, maybe you want Huntress to be baseline, I would be ok with that. Well majority of the stronger killer addons will need to be nerfed, and all the top killers will need to be nerfed. Killers are already way more powerful the they need to be. Of course this will result in mass quitting from killers because it has noting to do with balance. They want to win, but they don't want to sweat. But will say at the same time "Standing in front of a hook with deadlock is a legit strategy and does not need to be addressed." But doing all the gens in 5 minutes is awful and the devs need to fix this.
legitimately something is fundamentally broken players will get a patch that so wildly one sided and yet complain that they want more.
I agree with you. If all killers are as equally likely to 4k as any other, they may as well be skins at that point. I play a lot of Deathslinger right now and I don't have to 4k to get 26000 bloodpoints. I played well regardless of the end result and his mix of strengths and weaknesses give the trial a back-and-forth, like playing a good but not great Nurse. He's never going to be weak because he's never going to not dominate the 1v1 (personally, I think he's the best with STBFL). If you give him teleporting abilities, he's no longer a cowboy, deliberate and meticulous in his approach.
This update is the beginning of the end, at least for solo queue. It should be fun first, skill-based second, and atmospheric/spooky third. Now it's just sweaty and losing its character.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037788#Comment_3037788
I'm not asking you, as a nurse main, to be properly buffed against solo queue. I was referring to killers in general. I am totally fine with those general buffs not affecting Nurse. I (incorrectly) assumed that my comment was easy to understand based on the contents of this thread and the message I was responding to.
I do not need to justify my or anyone else's competitive gaming creds to you. It's pointless, time consuming, and not even on topic.
2 stacks of STBFL, 10 more seconds to gens, a nerf to survivor's speed boost after injury, tier 1 Brutal, and a slight basekit buff to kicking gens is more than sufficient against solo queue. Solo queue gets the short end of the stick in this game and it's not just because they're all bad. A killer main who has complaints against solo queue, they wouldn't stand a chance in a game that requires more meaningful skills than DBD.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037781#Comment_3037781
Whoever hurt you, it isn't me.
You're asking, as a Nurse main, to be "properly buffed" against solo queue. Show me the example of the killer main that goes over to Apex or Valorant and plays at a competitive level. It's common for Fortnite players, because the META is skill-based and it bypasses a lot of the playerbase in time. That's why I moved on to DBD, it's easy in comparison.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3037645#Comment_3037645
If killers every properly get buffed soloQ is in for a very bad reckoning about what it means to play well.
Killer mains would be in for a very bad reckoning if they actually had to play a high-skill multiplayer game and not one as comically imbalanced and easy as DBD. There is not a single killer main that would succeed at the highest levels of a game like Fortnite whereas any 12-year old at Champs woudl dominate this game in a month. You guys are full of yourselves.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029892#Comment_3029892
The mistake here is that you've just tried to use experience in another game to justify a position.
Not just because you are addressing the position as though you have command or insight into it, but because you are using experience through an external factor to try and assert yourself as qualified to make an absolute conclusion, which is untrue and a bit disrespectful.
One cannot just bring in experience in another game and act as though it qualifies them to denounce the experiences of other players.
It's unbecoming and demonstrative of the discussion at hand.
But what the heck, let's give this a shot.
If you want to use experience in other games to act as though you know a thing or two about Dead By Daylight, I'll play my hand at it.
After playing over 1,600 hours of Dead By Daylight as a part of my many years of gaming experience, I have a fair amount of seniority when it comes to an educated opinion - you could not be more mistaken.
I've played more 'competitive' games before, which qualifies my opinions more than mere 'fortnight'
After spending over 2,000 hours in Call Of Duty, 1,400 hours in XCOM, over 1,300 hours in Fallout games, over 1,200 hours in League Of Legends, over 520 hours in Mass Effect titles, 400 hours in Rainbow Six Siege, about 500 hours in Gears Of War, 400 hours of Halo, 250 hours in Dead Space, 240 hours in Destiny, 230 hours in Overwatch, over 200 hours studying and playing Dungeons & Dragons, 180 hours in Borderlands games, 100 hours in DOOM games, and watching over a thousand hours of Fog-Whisperer content... I have more than just a relative understanding of what makes Dead By Daylight work as a game, both casually and competitively.
I understand that you are probably playing the game at low MMR, which may explain your stance - as the killer experience at such ranks is an absolute breeze. But when you get to higher levels, SWF are not particularly any more or less difficult than normal players.
I've been playing multiplayer games for over 13 years, and there's seldom an experience that can leave you feeling as frustrated and completely powerless as playing Killer at high MMR against competent survivors - by the game's own design and admission.
Dead By Daylight is not a party game any more than League Of Legends, Call Of Duty, or Rainbow Six is a party game. And suggesting that you have a harder time playing Fortnight is not a qualifier to make such a bold opinion.
I love the game, but if you're going to try to lord Fortnight experience over me to justify some sort of misguided claim that survivor gameplay is as stressful or difficult as Killer gameplay, you are sorely mistaken.
It's one thing to disagree with someone, it's another thing to try and challenge the validity of someone's opinion based on your limited experiences in a battle royale.
Next time, either be clear about the nature of your own opinion, or use your experience in-game to justify your claims.
Remember: Not everyone is you.
It's not a moral failure to consider different things as different. At the same time, killer is stressful whereas solo survivor is like pruning a bonsai tree. Your words.
As far as MMR, I've played survivor against gtvel and killer against angrypug. They're not low MMR.
Killer being stressful has nothing to do with killer being difficult. I understand that the killer cannot be in four places at once and it becomes unmanageable against a 3- or 4-man SWF. My concern is with solo survivor. If all the proposed buffs for killer go through, though, solo survivor may as well be NPCs in a single player game. Doctor with Distressing, Coulrophobia, Sloppy, and Thanatophobia is an easy 4k against solos. Same with Thana Legions and Plagues. Nurse, Spirit, Blight, etc. This game cannot be both sweaty and simple. No one wants to play the role of NPC against a power-tripping killer main. It will create more SWFs if anything.
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STBFL is about to be broken on him. My brother -- who doesn't play DBD but understands multiplayer games -- watches me play Deathsllinger and knows immediately how powerful he is in the 1v1. 10 stacks of STBFL, lol. Killers in this game, lol.
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@Valik said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3029696#Comment_3029696
Killer is extremely stressful.
If you're looking at kill rates, you're completely missing out on the content of the matches. Having to squeeze out 55% kill rate from the clutches of Dead Hard, DS body blockers, and proficient loopers is pulling teeth in the worst ways - especially on lower tier killers like Freddy or Saduko.
Keep in mind, tunnelers and campers can often get 2k matches.
If you think Killer gameplay is either easy or simplistic - especially relative to survivor gameplay - then your lack of experience is sadly showing.
Killer is stressful if you let it be stressful. Doesn't mean it's hard to play killer, it isn't. I've played against 4-man SWF, too. It's frustrating, but it is not the average match. You're more likely to destroy uncoordinated solos than you are to be destroyed by some death squad SWF.
As far my experience, I've played two multiplayer games, DBD and Fortnite. Both of them are better when played casually, but only one is difficult. That's Fortnite, not DBD. DBD is a party game and always will be.
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@Valik said:
I really don't understand this 'Solo que is hard' mentality sprouts from.
Solo que is a stress relieving experience, especially at higher MMR.
Like trimming a bonsai tree - predictable, low-effort.
Sure, when you're in a lobby with silly-nannies that throw chases or get their teammates killed, it can prove to be a challenge - you almost want SWF just to remove the possibility of another feeder on your team. But once you actually start getting good, and get paired with similar MMR survivors - the game gets progressively easier and easier. SWF information can make a match far more simple, and opens up the opportunity to sweat for those 4e trials. But if people want to act like Killer is a breeze and solo que is hardcore... it goes against everything I've learned over the past 1,600+ hours of gameplay and countless hours watching streamers and content creators play and work in the game.
Make no mistake, the changes are going to make the game into a veritable bloodbath - but mostly because of the Dead-Hard and Self-Care changes. Noob survivors are going to use Self Care and get their team killed now... and Dead-Hard is going to stop being such a crutch perk for absolute garbo survivors that learned to press E to win the game. Survivors that have come to rely on the absolute ease and free escapes provided by DeadHard and end-game DS procs are going to cry into their sleeve for a week or so - newer players who go for self cares in corners are going to ravage low MMR lobbies.
All in all, though, survivors will find that their MMR is going to be a bit more accurate - that is unless Behavior botches the DH nerf and accidentally buffs it in the process.
To all my fellow Solo Que players who are worried that they're about to get stomped: the only thing SWF does is grant information. If you cannot preform well with limited information, you're sure as heck not going to perform well with more information. If after the DeadHard reign of terror, survivors are still complaining that the game is too difficult - it's simple ignorance of reality. When even the developers themselves are showing concern because kill rates are low - you know the battle is lost for that.
Low tier MMR lobbies are going to be abysmal, because silly noob survivors are going to absorb even more time and fumble around with even less efficiency now. However, this also means that any competent player is going to rise quickly - if silly survivors and noobs find escape extremely difficult, but good players are able to see the proverbial strings and hedge their bets, they will rise.
This change will make low MMR matches a bloodbath for a short while. But soon enough, the baby dwights and stock blendettes are going to sink to the very bottom of MMR, and those who push on through are going to have a much easier time for their trouble. This is a straining effort, but it will strain the noobs from those who know better than to spend 120+ seconds on 3 heals.
What is killer, then, if survivor is like clipping a bonsai tree? 55% kill rate according to the latest statistics while SWF escapes at a 15% greater rate than solo survivors. Bring up what is difficult in this game. There is nothing difficult about this game mechanically, including killer. You take the average 12-year old at Arena Champs level on Fortnite and ask them to learn killer, they will go on 50-game win streaks on any killer in this game. Killer is hard, give it a rest.
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@Mazoobi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026556#Comment_3026556
Defensive plague builds are good too with thanatophobia + all the other gen perks.
Probably the only issue would be loopers with DH since most people don't want to cleanse.
Doctor with Distressing, Coulrophobia, Sloppy, and Thana is going to be fun, too.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3027104#Comment_3027104
Pentimento is 30% slowdown and four stacks of Thana is (going to be) 22%, so where on earth are you getting that from? Thana got buffed by 2%, I don't necessarily agree with it but it's also pretty laughably small.
The only thing that changes in regards to solo queue being made weaker is that Knock Out got buffed, that's it. I still don't think many killers are going to run Knock Out, but in fairness, that one thing does make solo queue weaker.
Basekit anti-tunnel and more perk viability still works out to a positive.
Future Thana with three stacks and 90s gens will be stronger than current Pentimento with 80s gens. If it weren't a hex, current Pentimento would be the strongest perk in the game.
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@jesterkind said:
I really don't understand how basekit anti-tunnel measures and more perk viability translate to solo queue nerfs.
Even if the anti-tunnel measures don't go far enough, that's still a net neutral, not a nerf. They didn't nerf any of solo's more heavily incentivised tools like Kindred, and the perks that they did nerf have clear alternatives, so where exactly is the nerf? What, exactly, is going to lead to a "massacre" in solo queue?
To be clear, while I still play killer most, I've been getting more into survivor recently for archive challenges and the like- I play solo, and I'm going to do it more after these changes hit, because the experience should improve. I'll certainly be testing survivor on the PTB.
Three stacks of Thana is now stronger than Pentimento. Against randoms, any decent killer should 4k without too much effort. It's not fun gameplay, either. Deathslinger with 10 stacks of STBFL is not going to be fun or balanced. It's all sweat, no skill.
Just to add, the bubble that appears when a survivor is hooked has been blocking the killer's aura on Kindred for about a month now. I often pair it with Open Handed and you still have to wait too long for the killer's aura to appear. I'm guessing it's a bug. Who knows, though? Knockout was buffed in this update, and that's only used to grief solo survivors.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026984#Comment_3026984
Yeah again i never said there isnt issues but are you supposed to escape every single match as a survivor? Are you supposed to win every match as a killer? Was it that soloQ was around 50% and SWF was 15% higher. Isnt 50 % enough?
This topic makes SoloQ sound like its IMPOSSIBLE which it isnt. Its all about luck what teammates you have and RNG MMR
The kill rate is 55% according to the Dec-Jan figures. Survivors escape at 45% rate, but SWF boosts that number because they escape at a 15% higher rate than solos. If the proposed changes go through, it's going to drop even more, especially for solos.
Against solos, Blight and Nurse are even more OP. Spirit makes a comeback. Oni and Huntress become S-Tier. Plague and Legion, just suicide on hook, etc.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3026978#Comment_3026978
You know potato is the common word for a bad play...i dont take it personally i call myself a potato sometimes if i play badly, but sure lets make the word potato bad now :D
Also goodjob on being good on huntress
Good for you on escaping 70% of your solo matches. But the stats are what they are. Killers have a 55% kill rate according to the latest figures. SWF escapes at least 15% more than solos. Being able to aim with Huntress does not mean I am outlier. You escaping 70% of your solo matches does mean you are one, though.
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@Hannacia said:
I'll say it again..im not sure what kind of potatoes you guys play with, but 7/10 matches i escape easily with 3-4 escape rate with solos. Not even lying.
This is why killrates are down because survivors can play well in soloQ as well.
I have such a chill time as a survivor, sometimes even giving a hook or 2 for the killer so they can get bloodpoints.
If people play well they play well in solo and in SWF if they hide and self heal in the corner they will do that with friends too.
You are not supposed to escape every single match you play nor is killer supposed to win every match they play.
In a previous comment, you say you main Huntress but it's too hard for you to get kills with her. Who are you to call others "potatoes"? She throws beach balls. I used to main her, too, until she got too easy and boring. That's on PS4. I don't understand the killer mains on this forum. This game does not require enough skill to justify the imbalance going forward between killers and solo survivors. Are you going to say Legion and Plague with Thana are still "low-tier killers" against solos while gens take two minutes? Is Deathslinger with 10 stacks of STBFL going to be fair? Too many of you argue in bad faith.
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Plagues and Legions running Thanatophobia will not be worth playing against. And if people thought Deathslinger was annoying before, wait until he gets 10 stacks of STBFL (a perk I run on him, so I already know how broken it can be). Multiplayer games are at their best when there's a balance between casual fun and being able to express a bit of skill. As these games get older, though, they become sweatier. For solo survivors, this update is "more kills, less skill". There won't be fun, there won't be skill.
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They should definitely change the name of the perk if the survivor working on the gen isn't going to scream. A generator giving off sparks after a hook doesn't bring to mind pain passing from one survivor to another.