Aerys
Aerys
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While an interesting idea, and one that may indeed extend the game time a bit, I don't personally agree with the idea as it would take away the finality of a finished Generator and remove the hard penalty it gives to a Killer. I say this as a Killer main, so don't think I don't wish there was something to extend games, I just don't think this is it. When a Generator is complete it should remain that way, it's on the Killer for not having defended it. Additionally, at 3 Genies left I don't know where a Killer would find time to go push one into this state while not allowing them to complete one of the three final Gens and entering exit gate phase. At rank 1 Survivors would easily finish one of the three before a Killer has time to get back to them.
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Brown Mori: Grants the ability to kill the last Survivor, who has been hooked once, by your hand during the next trial.
Yellow Mori: Grants the ability to kill one Survivor, who has been hooked once, by your hand during the next trial.
Green Mori: Grants the ability to kill two Survivors, who have been hooked once, by your hand during the next trial.
Purple Mori: Grants the ability to kill three Survivors, who have been hooked once, by your hand during the next trial.
Pink Mori: Grants the ability to kill all Survivors, who have been hooked once, by your hand during the next trial.
At least then it'd be up in the air as to which Mori you know the Killer is running and how much "OH NO" you have to be once he doesn't kill the first person down or hooks the second person. That said, they should all be relatively rare even for their respective rarities.
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I can say that I definitely never have fun playing against her, nor do I play as her. She essentially has the power of Wraith without the drawback and then has even more power on top of it with her reverse bear trap. That said she isn't too powerful, just extremely annoying, and the RNG element of her reverse bear traps isn't fun for neither her nor people playing against her. They should serve as a deterrent to escaping and to buying her some time, NOT as a kill mechanic that occasionally 100% screws over Survivors or as a mechanic one can remove on their first box making it trivial.
As for how to fix this, instead of eliminating her terror radius just reduce it by 80-90% so you can still have a small moment of notification before she hits you (The Wraith gives you a ton of notification with his damn bell), and as for her Game require the Survivor to go to each one but only for a single skill check before they move on. As it is now it in now way represents the SAW franchise in its set up as in SAW the victims of Jigsaw's games ALWAYS had a chance to properly escape if they followed the rules.
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Personally I'd make it so those objects give a tremendous buff to repairing/healing but increase charge consumption by 100%, basically only being usable with something that increases charges by a large amount as well. The idea of instant healing/repairing is nice and all but it's sad that it wastes the item altogether. Maybe that's just me though and my wanting to hoard all sorts of nice looking things.
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As someone who only played Wraith for three weeks straight and was essentially a laughing stock at rank 1/2/3 games, told to change to another Killer by both the people I lost against as well as my friends, I do not think that Wraith is in a good spot. High ranked Survivors saw me when invisible even out of the corner of their eye, and I had only just spotted them. Am I supposed to be playing even more stealthily while invisible too? I avoided hitting grasses and the like but that didn't help, they can literally see me (honestly it's not that hard, I can spot a Wraith coming fairly well too lol).
I've already made adjustments that I think could help Wraith become more viable via his addons in this thread (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29685/quick-fix-wraith) as honestly he isn't too too bad at a base level in my opinion but just lacks the extra oomph to 4K most of the time, and is the 2nd ranked worst Killer behind good ol' dream boi.
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NOED, like other hexes, is extremely vulnerable if not more vulnerable than the other 6 hexes that exist, because you can literally eliminate it before it becomes any sort of threat. Whether or not you yourself personally think it's a waste of time to cleanse all Dull Totems or not this is the case. If you think it's so dangerous of a perk, run Adrenaline or Hope and evade the Killer for the entire Exit Gate phase or run Small Game to find Totems so easy a toddler could do it and destroy NOED before it comes into being. If someone gets hit by NOED that is entirely on them, not the Killer, as it is a safety net just like the various safety nets Survivors have. The cost of Survivor safety nets is that you have to wait till end game, the cost of NOED is that you have to wait till end game and potentially end up not having it at all, or lose it within 16s because the Dull Totem it chose to use was the one directly next to an exit gate.
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Enough. Cease the arguing and let it go. Does The Hag need a nerf? No, from my viewpoint one simply needs to learn how to play around her, crouching eliminates 99% of your problems, a flashlight eliminates most of them too, the one thing she excels in is chases but other than that it's all on the Survivor to play smart. If the game is slower that's not entirely due to her, but even if it is that's fairly needed in the current meta. One tip would be to ensure the generators left for the end phase are spread way out/across the map from each other, this is important for any Killer but even more so for the Hag.
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I started reading through the thread but then it devolved into arguing, so my two cents is simply that the last Survivor to be sacrificed should gain a 1000BP bonus in the Survival category due to the already mentioned reason of them not being able to go through the struggle phase and thus don't get the ~900 points for it. I also think the points for a complete struggle phase should be higher, like 2000BP, but ah well.
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I've only been around a month so I don't know what the Devs have or haven't said but I sure hope they read the forums cause I've been posting like mad about ways to improve the game, and while not all of my ideas are gold or even brass they can definitely find fresh inspiration and ideas by examining the communities views.
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@Wolf74
This'll be my last post on the topic, but seriously dude, I get your point but you're not grasping any of mine nor acknowledging the additional points made. Either way, your point is only applicable if every person on the team is running No Mither. If even one isn't then the Killer's choice to bring an Expose status debuff was warranted and will potentially pay off. But I'll say it again, even if the entire team chose to ran No Mither the killer would be able to deal with the team easily, as someone who plays Killer every day I'm 100% sure of this as getting an initial hit off on a Survivor as pretty much every killer is very easily done. -
@Wolf74
I'm aware it doesn't, but in a general sense saying No Mither is a counter to the Exposed status is loosely true, at least it seemed to be what you were arguing for. I'll tell you what it is definitely a counter for; Bloodhound. That move helps you track blood pools and No Mither makes it so you don't leave any. That's a rather hard counter in my books. Either way, as for the actual topic of the thread I stand by what I said in that it should reduce wiggle time as well as the other things it already does. -
The main downside of Fire Up is that you have to wait until nearly the end of the game for it to be useful much like NOED and other similar perks, unlike them however it isn't as good at shutting Survivors down. If they changed it to something like;
Each time the Survivors complete repairs on a Generator, Fire Up grows in power and grants a speed bonus to Pallet break, Generator damage and Vaults.
2 Tokens: receive 8/10/12 % action speed bonus.
3 Tokens: receive 12/14/16 % action speed bonus.
4 Tokens: receive 16/18/20 % action speed bonus.As if you're at 4 Tokens that means there's only one Generator left and the Killer is likely doing poorly anyhow. Before anyone says these numbers are broken I assure you they aren't, if the actions they were affecting were in the tens of seconds long then perhaps but the numbers they're affecting are 2.6, 2, and 1.7, which means 20% of those (which is only 6% more than the current max) is the difference between 2.28, 1.72, and 1.46 seconds with the current buff and 2.08, 1.6, and 1.36. For the record, when compared to Brutal Strength (20% to Pallets and Generators from the beginning of the game) and Bamboozle (15% to vault + Entity Block) this perk would still only barely match up to them as it only takes full effect at 4 Gens lost. When combined with them the times would be 1.56, 1.2, and 1.02, but keep in mind that'd be 3 perks of a 4 perk limit just for these 3 stats, but who knows it might be super powerful, I'd hope it would be if it takes 3 perks to achieve.
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@Wolf74
Surely you've heard of counter picking before yes? It's when someone picks a character or ability that works well against another known character/ability. First off though, you will likely never get a full team of No Mither users. Secondly, No Mither is a "counter" to Exposed Status perks and those sorts of Killers. In game design there is nothing innately wrong with that.Also, I am a game developer, I know quite a bit about game design. That's why I'm saying No Mither is awful in its design and bad for a Survivor to take, I can't remember having seen someone with No Mither not get downed since it's so easy to do. Even if it's a counter to those perks, it's an awful counter to try making. Simply put, the benefits No Mither gives are in no way, shape, or form equal to the hindrance it comes with.
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Perhaps, but if three people all with leader perks are on a team and together while the fourth person loops the Killer for awhile, all three of those Survivors will have an 18% speed bonus at the moment. That's one reason SWF's are slightly broken at the moment (aside from the massive advantage voice chat gives) as if they choose to organize they can finish a Gen in 26.24 seconds. Below I've included some of the charts so you can understand how powerful it can be;
and that's not including additional bonuses from other perks or items. Simply put, Leader needs a nerf, and if its power is shifted to Prove Thyself while giving the perk a slight negative in the form of slightly more frequent and harder skill checks, I think it will balance out fairly well.
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I've only played the game for a month thus I'm unsure if the "successful attack" is referring to hatchets and traps and was nerfed in that sense, or if it was something else, but as it is I think it's fine. It was however nerfed in that they removed the missed attack cooldown reduction. If they remove that they might as well increase the movement speed bonus a bit.
Or they could always do something innovative such as increase the time required to cleanse the totem to 30 seconds rather than the default 16 seconds, while also notifying you that it's being cleansed on when it hits 60% cleansed. It super sucks if you bring a perk like NOED and the Survivors find the totem immediately and cleanse it. You don't have the time to guard the totem while hunting Survivors as they open the Exit Gates either so it's one or the other (obviously hunting the Survivors). It also super sucks if they cleanse all 5 totems and NOED never activates, but that should be the way to deal with NOED, not finding it and easily cleansing it at the end of the game when the Killer's perk should be paying off.
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Looking at the perk it doesn't seem as though its final max result is all that bad, but how it's achieved is. Simply put, the maximum result will never be achieved as you're never going to have ALL Survivors in one location, that would be an awful idea and more than likely one will always be getting chased by the Killer. I would propose it simply be changed to;
If another Survivor is within 8 metres gain an 9% increase to repairing, healing, sabotaging, cleansing, opening Exit Gates, and searching Chests. Once out of range, this effect persists for 15 seconds.
But wait, there's more. This is relatively strong all things considered but is exactly the same as the perk Leader, just that it applys to Dwight himself. however, why should a Perk that only applies this to Dwight himself (or whoever) be the same as one that gives 9% to three other people? The power simply isn't comparable. That's why it oughta be;
If another Survivor is within 2 metres gain a 12% increase to repairing, healing, sabotaging, cleansing, opening Exit Gates, and searching Chests. Additionally, skill checks appear 10% more often and are slightly more difficult. Once out of range, this effect persists for 30 seconds.
This is what would make the perk worth taking. You would need to get very close to another Survivor, if not right on top of them, and it would give only 3% more than leader does and lasting double the time while experiencing slightly harder difficulty in skill checks. You have to actually prove yourself after all.
That said, with how Leader currently works if all four Survivors are on a gen and all of them have leader you can finish a generator in 21s. If they have toolboxes or other perks they can finish it even faster. If anything Leader should be knocked down in power while this should gain the bulk of it.
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@Wolf74
Logically speaking that isn't the case, they don't negate one shot abilities/the exposed debuff, they just make it unneeded on that Survivor in particular, that is to say that they still/now always go down in one hit. If all four players are running No Mither it's true that if you ran NOED or if you're The Shape your exposed debuff isn't needed to down them, but that doesn't take away from you in any way it only means that now ALL your actions down them, or rather that they're 100% under the effects of the exposed debuff at all times. So if you took an exposed status effect as a perk, you still end up having the intended effect of your perk happening and it's an even stronger effect that it would've had all thanks to the Survivor's perk choice. -
@SmokePotion
I read the patch notes for the games I play as well, I've only been playing DbD for a month or so and thus I haven't caught whether it was or wasn't changed, all I know is that logically it doesn't make sense for the Doctor's Shock Therapy to cause someone to warp back to their original spot if they got shocked during the animation, physics don't work like that and they'd simply crash to the ground on the other side of a window or the pallet would still drop due to gravity. The actions would be completed though and so using Shock Therapy as a preventative, that is using it on them before they've started the action thus preventing them from making it, then switching to Punishment mode and hitting them.I've already done this a few times in my limited experience playing the Doctor and it's pretty fun to do, but I wouldn't advocate teleporting a player backward mid action just because they got hit by a pacification/silence ability (that is to say it isn't a stun, they can still move while getting shocked, it only inhibits actions from being made).
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This wouldn't change how high ranked players/SWF play as they'd just gen rush the non-Black Generators and leave through the gate exclusively. Only way they'd do otherwise is if the Black Generator gave a massive BP bonus for completing, but as is getting near capped objective points is rather easy, and doing the Black Generator wouldn't count toward the other three categories. I guess you could say that this would punish lower ranked players while leaving high ranked players the same.
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Again, it's meant as a preventative not a hard stun or something.
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I'd say the only thing they could do with it is reduce the time to wiggle free by 2 seconds at tier III, would mean they have a slightly better chance to escape getting hooked unless they drop at/close to a hook. Using hook reducing offerings would be useful for that too.
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It does, but only for the Snap Out Of It skill check part. No matter what though playing injured is a bad move, the extra hit is just far too useful for looping and body blocking than a 9% bonus is on various things. That's why No Mither is a joke perk that ends with the person rage quitting 9/10 when they've been hit once. Building around being injured will always be a bad idea unless they buff the moves slightly and make them persist after healing for a short duration.
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Even if they did change it the change makes sense, and unless you read every single patch note to make sure they didn't fix it as a bug I wouldn't say it was a "shadow nerf" or anything. Even if it was a "shadow bug fix" it'd be fine, but transparency is always good I agree.
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Well, I think it's fair enough that they get to finish the action as if you start to drop a pallet it makes sense it'd continue to fall from gravity, or if you're rushing through a window or over a pallet it makes sense that the moment would carry you through anyhow. I've been using it as a preventative, gotta hit them before they do it and capitalize on it then.
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Because if no one is within 10 metres there won't be anyone to highlight. That in turn means the Killer has no idea where the other 3 Survivors are and so they'd have to take that risk of leaving you on the hook with zero guarantee of finding another survivor soon as they'll have to search blind (which isn't all that difficult either but it sure helps if you know exactly where a Survivor was 10 seconds ago as you dash over to em).
I'd be fine if it showed the closest Survivor on the map for 5 seconds or if its radius was reduced from 40 metres to 30 metres, as currently when I don't see all 3 Survivors when I hook someone I do exactly this; I circle the hook's immediate vicinity. If no one is there I circle slightly further in a circle. If no one is there either I will walk away from the hook BACKWARDS and watch for if someone jogs out and unhooks the person. If I see someone at any of these points I will deck them and chase leaving any other Survivor to unhook the other one, because I don't mind them getting off the hook it's not having any prey to chase that makes me want to stay and at least secure one rather than running off into the night. If no one appears after all that I'll finally turn and start checking my area's Genies.
So yes, I think the Aura reading ability on BBQ'n'Chilli could be slightly better, but at the same time it works good enough as is and buffing or messing with it could create an imbalance we don't need, for the moment we should look at buffing/changing WGLF to be better and more generous in how it rewards Survivors with bonus exp rather than changing the Killer's already reliable bonus exp source.
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For sure, I was just saying it'd be nice to see a little better, but maybe it's cause when I hook someone I immediately cloak and that messes up my vision slightly as well thus seeing people is rather hard, #JustWraithThings
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Like I pointed out in my thread (https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29714/quick-fix-bloodpoint-disparity) there's no real way for Survivors to gain BP in survival unless they escape at the end and get that huge 5k BP boost from it, and on average the points they get in other categories won't hit cap either, the only category they might hit cap in is objectives, that is if they stay on Generators the whole game, but then they won't have a ton of boldness or altruism. Essentially, Survivors will never cap in more than one category while a Killer can cap in at least two, maybe three if the game goes on long enough, and four if their sacrifices work out just right (which they usually don't for whatever reason even with a 4k).
Allowing Survivors to gain points easier in other categories will allow for people to feel like it's worth it to play Survivor for reasons other than SWF where they can be t-bagging toxic players toward the upper ranks. I used to shake my head at Killers who camped and tunneled, but now after I became a rank 1 Killer I realize that they probably just wanted to make sure a toxic person didn't escape and get 5k BP they don't deserve. Yes, I do believe that bad behaviour and rudeness means they don't deserve things, actions should have consequences after all. As much as I report these Survivors and do my best to not camp or tunnel (which I do tunnel on occasion as either they are toxic or it's just my only hope at getting even one sacrifice) I still try to understand why these things happen.
But I digress, simply put, giving Survivors a better way to earn BP will help more people want to play Survivor as they will feel their actions are being rewarded properly. I wiggle when a Killer catches me, but I know it gets me nothing and that 99% of the time it does nothing to help my case, while you could argue it means they won't take me to the basement what Killer has the time to walk all the way there every time they down someone, I sure as heck don't and so I just slap them on the closest hook, even if they don't wiggle. Rewarding these actions that currently don't actually give the Survivor anything would be a great start at balance and making people want to play them, because I really do want to enjoy playing Survivor and I do at times, but it's super not worth it in points even if I do hop from game to game over and over, being a Killer with a longer queue time is still more rewarding and more fun.
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It's a valid strategy to sneak up behind the Killer as they put someone on a hook, wait for them to leave, then whisk them down real quick. I can say that I almost never see all 3 other Survivors when I hook one, but that's fine, just circle the area around hook for ~10 seconds to check if they're hiding in obvious spots then give up and go defend your Genies. At the end of the day if someone camps they'll lose the game. That said, making it 30m rather than 40m would be nice, and making the vision a little more vivid so that a survivor that's directly behind or on a Genie isn't somewhat invisible in the brief moments you have to glance around at them all.
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@friendlykillermain Yeah, I suppose that could work, but I still think there should be some sort of transition at 50% HP as struggling to get off the hook vs struggling against the Entity to not have a big ol' hole punched through you are fairly different in activity. Could just do a DDR-esq sequence that slowly gets faster and faster on your march to hell, when you slip up 1/3rd of your hp gets taken lol. I would much prefer that to the space bar mashing as my space bar is loud and annoying to mash for my friends.
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Well, what is "fun" and "not fun" are subjective to the person in question, I wouldn't say being hooked is fun period personally. What you're suggesting could work in theory only if the skill checks are what drains a person's life and not time, but if that were the case then the skill checks would never get more difficult due to the easiest being easy to pass. You'd have to the hybridize the skill checks and time together in some fashion in order to compensate for this and ultimately it'd become a real mess compared to the current straightforward system. So no, struggling is fine as it is now, it could be improved to have more activity while on it to be sure but not in that way.
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As I mentioned in one of my threads, there's no way to "fix" outside voice comms between friends. It simply isn't possible, and while I 100% agree that it makes the game quite a bit broken there's no way you can force players to not use Discord to voice with one another. In my SWF thread I go over how to adapt the game for SWF groups, but wanting to eliminate voice chat would be a fruitless endeavour.
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While I understand your frustration with Gen Rushing I don't believe this would solve anything and in fact would, as others have said, cause Survivors to simply rush Generators independently, something which they already do quite well might I add. Gen Rushing, while annoying and inane, is a very valid and effective strategy due to how the game is currently set up. Giving an even larger penalty to Survivors who rush the same Gen will only have them spread out and do separate gens that you can't possibly keep on top of. The only times when I can effectively keep on top of Gens are when there are only one or two left to be done (So three or four on the map) and even then it'll heavily depend on the group. There are simply too many reasons as to why Gen Rushing exists, to adequately solve the issue you'd need to solve the underlying issues that encourage it to happen.
While seemingly unrelated, my post on Totems and how to use them as Additional Objectives would actually play into preventing Gen Rushing quite a bit, give it a read and see if you agree;
Additionally if SWF peeps are your issue I have another thread on that;
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/30057/quick-fix-swf-penalty
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Killers already have it rather rough as is once you get out of rank 10 - 20, and of the many aspects that are weak about them Totems are high up on that list. You have to realize that when you cleanse a Hex Totem you're destroying an entire perk from that Killer, that's one fourth of their power. Simply put, with how long it takes to cleanse a totem (14 seconds, with Thrill of the Hunt and 5 totems it's 18.2 seconds) they are rather vulnerable, especially when you can't exactly camp your Totem unless you're the Hag and even then if the Survivor has a brain they'll just crouch up to it.
If you were to show Survivors how many Totems are left by default this would weaken them even more and completely take the edge off them once they see that number hit zero. Survivors who might have been keeping an eye out for them despite them having all been cleansed would now stop looking and caring about them, and while that sounds like an obvious and positive thing from a logic standpoint it actually would negatively impact Killers.
I have my own ideas on how Totems could work better over at https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/29773/quick-fix-the-additional-objectives-that-are-totems if you want to take a look, an inane idea but one that would fix two issues in one fell swoop. I might even agree to your Totem counter if these changes were made as it would have some relevance in keeping track of them.
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Indeed, as I said it's pretty much a super power for all of them to know those things at any given point, but this is the best I could come up with while not nerfing them into the ground or punishing solo players who happen to be also playing with them (albeit does slightly in a way). All I know is that getting a 4-man SWF with 4 toolboxes = gg lol
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Which is fair enough, there has been at least one Human (Vigo) who entered the Entity and manipulated the Dark Mist/Fog at will, even creating the Black Lock/Hatch itself, so it wouldn't be impossible for that to be the case, it's just that from a game design perspective it's lazy and offers nothing in terms of truly improving the game's feel and atmosphere nor introducing a new mechanic that Players have to unravel.
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If you heal someone else an entire health state then maybe that could count as a stack, but only the health restored via yourself would count (so three people healing one dude wouldn't each get a stack out of it, only 1/3 of a stack) but that could also encourage players to go take a hit before escaping the Killer (Or more likely the Killer giving up due to inane looping), and then have their friends heal them for stacks. Freeing from the Killer's grasp would be a good one to include though, sure as heck is annoying when it's done to me and I feel like it should be worth a stack when done right x3
I don't really care for the 2nd option as it doesn't address the problem with how WGLF is set up and I also don't super like decimals when designing such things either. Overall what Peanits said is what I agree with the most, make the exp perks baseline, that is to say give them to players by default for every game and not as a perk (and I would even go as far as to say that BBQ'n'Chilli's aura reveal be added as a baseline for killer's as well since it promotes hunting over camping), while changing the Perks slightly so that they can still be used.
For instance, Tier III BBQ'n'Chilli could change to hooking a Survivor speeds up the rate at which they "cook" by 25% meaning that teammates need to get there sooner to help them while also applying a burn debuff to the hooked Survivor that lasts until they're healed and causes them to have more difficult skill check zones when it comes to healing themselves/being healed by others. Tier III WGLF on the other hand could change to a body block mechanic in which if they are struck while between the Killer and an Injured Survivor they stun the Killer for X seconds, impairing their vision in some way, and grants the Survivor the benefit of not bleeding or leaving red marks for the stun's duration as they hightail it out of there. The whole perk's theme is about protecting your friends after all, makes sense if you do it right and then get out of there to live forever lol.
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Oh, I agree with all that though. From what I was told WGLF had a 200% cap and you got 50% per action, and that it had a healing buff in there too, so obviously that had to be nerfed (even if it was just 50% with a 200% cap), and I like BBQ'n'Chilli as it is right now. I'm simply saying that the methods in which WGLF stacks are obtained are crappy and that if they were changed to be main objectives rather than situational ones the perk would flow a lot better in terms of gameplay, there's no reason to give it an additional use unless you're going to also buff BBQ'n'Chilli in some way as well.
As far as perks go though they're kind of garbage, they don't change gameplay too much/at all aside from purposely trying to farm stacks, and that's why I believe they should be scrapped as perks and made into simple gameplay mechanics everyone has every game, especially due to the rising amount of Survivors and Killers there are to level up. As a new player I've only P1'd Wraith and Bill so far and have some levels here and there in only a few other characters, the amount of playing I'd need to do to level the entire cast and crew up is pretty much unobtainable, as most of my BP came from the Halloween event.
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I am aware they were nerfed and buffed, and I'm not saying to change them back (From what I understand WGLF gave a healing buff and such?). If you read my post I don't advocate for anything of the sort, so what point are you trying to make while using me as a strawman?
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Briefly skimming through the posts I see there is a lot of vitriol between people here. I've only been playing the game for a few weeks and got Killer rank 1 already (to my dismay) and survivor rank 8, I enjoy both, and I understand why BBQ'n'Chilli and WGLF exist how they do now. However, there does exist two vital differences between them, one of which is innate and the other is situational. The innate difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli actually has a secondary (its Aura reading) use aside from points while WGLF does not. The situational difference is that BBQ'n'Chilli uses a main objective to stack points (hooking a Survivor) while WGLF uses two highly situational objectives (rescuing a hooked teammate or body blocking for them). This has often led to a lot of body blocking plays that I've seen at the exit gate simply to raise their stacks while they refuse to escape.
The way to fix these issues is rather simple however; Have WGLF's stacks come from main objectives as well. Giving 15% bonus BP at the end of the match for each generator completed (15 * 5 = 75) as well as a 25% bonus for having powered an exit gate. This accumulates to a 100% bonus BP gain, assuming you lived all the way to the end anyhow, and would eliminate the pointless body blocking exercises just for stacks. If someone dies during the game they would get however many generators were done/the exit gate being powered when they died, so if 3/5 gens were done they would get 45% bonus BP. As for the secondary use, someone had pointed out that the probable or explicit reason BBQ'n'Chilli has that use is to promote hunting down other targets and not camping/tunneling. Good in theory, not always effective.
Ideally though, as the game moves forward, these two perks should become innate effects for Killers and Survivors rather than a perk. There are simply far too many characters to level up at this point and that number will only ever increase. Exp bonuses will be sorely needed more than ever then going forward. It also locks 1/4 perks for either side to being those boosters lest every game you play be only half the value it could be when speaking efficiency.
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@Peanits I think lowering escape points that drastically would be a bit much, you want to feel adequately rewarded for actually escaping after all and making it so that escaping essentially means you just keep your items would be a iffy way to go with it. I think nerfing it a bit and reallocating some of the other categories' actions into survival would make the most sense, allowing you to better reach cap in every category as the match progresses.
Again, as for BBQ'n'Chilli and WGLF, there are many threads that cover those and why atm WGLF is garbage, we should focus on how to balance the base points slightly and worry about those another time. That said, the actions one needs to take to obtain stacks of WGLF are situational and optional, the actions needed to obtain BBQ'n'Chilli are mandatory (hooking Survivors is your main goal as a Killer). Simply making WGLF's stacks come from number of Gens done (15% per Gen) and an exit gate opened (25%) might allow for it to be more inline with the Killer's BBQ'n'Chilli. My greatest disdain for WGLF is that it has no additional use, it's pure points for a purely situational and optional action in each game.
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I mean if you're playing at the dead of night perhaps but I've played at various times of the day and while it's not consistent it isn't 30 minutes by any means. I only play Killer so I'm fairly sure about that, but maybe at different ranks it differs, I'm sadly at rank 2 now despite being 3ish weeks into playing this game and get outmatched most games :T
As for it costing more to play Killer, that may be true, and indeed it's pretty bs that there's no way to keep our addons aside from the offering, if we slaughter all four it would make sense to keep them but ah well. Perhaps if Killers had an "Entity Store" where the Entity gives them addons based on how many offerings (a Survivor they've fed to it) they have stored up. Would be nice and a bit better than another thought I saw on the forums in another thread.
Also, to be fair I'm only advocating for slight changes in any case :T
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You mean it shouldn't take 3 weeks of playing to hit rank 3? lol. I only play Wraith and am not that good yet, so I'm constantly being ravaged by top tier Survivors. I wish the matchmaking was a bit better and that it didn't boost me so far up so fast, but I'm doing my best to adapt to their playstyle and stuff.. Either way, the Halloween event was my first experience with the game and it added time to matches that helped me win (maybe that's why I'm at rank 3), without it I find the balance to favour the Survivors more but again that could just be due to my lack of experience and skill.
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The problem with making it a part of the base game is that it's meaningless aside from farming. As an event sure, but as a part of the base game it lacks in substance. From a lore perspective why would the Entity constantly be doing it? The Entity feeds off strong emotions, hope from the survivors and murderous intent/evil from the killers. How would these add to either of those? Again, this would be a pretty neat event to have every so often, once a month, but as a permanent addition I think it has to have a bit more substance and reason to it.
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Seems like a neat thing but perhaps too much like (or exactly like) the Halloween event. Still, would be a nice reoccurring event to have though.
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See, that makes sense. So then the question is, how do we make hooks more of a valid thing to leave alone for a killer without ruining their gameplay. I'm fairly convinced from what everyone has said that putting a higher unhook time and triggering a warning to the killer (The Entity basically saying "Hey they're stealing my food") would be the best case scenario as it would allow the killer to roam more without worrying about his prey getting down and healing up immediately. Maybe if it took 15 seconds with skill check possibilities to unhook someone it'd be more viable and give the killer more time to jog back and defend its prey? Of course, if a killer were to camp them with that in consideration then the survivor then loses completely, but if what you say is true and getting caught is the definition of losing for a survivor, then they might as well die there.
All that said, it doesn't feel like punishing survivors is going to go over well especially for people new to the game. I think when someone said that killers should be rewarded for leaving to go get more blood it makes sense. What if, upon hooking someone, the killer gained a 90s advanced version of Bloodlust that gave the base 0.2m/s speed increase as well as 50% point gain in hunting/deviousness/destruction? That way they'd absolutely want to run wild and free as they maim survivors rather than camping?
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@Dragonredking Well, the video was over two and a half years ago at this point, and in it the guy is at least on a ledge further away from the hook, not just standing on top of it. Perhaps what he meant by it was that you should aim to get their friends once they show up, which is at least more fair than tunneling on one survivor.
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I mentioned the flailing method of notification in my post, but it's not a built in system it's something players have to know of, if I hadn't watched a let's play of the game I would've had no idea.
And perhaps you're right, rewarding the killer for doing their job is indeed a good approach toward incentivizing them to leave the hooked survivor and hunt more, but at the same time, as you said, people will still camp regardless. The people that straight up camp deserve to be penalized, and if done properly like I've explained to others it can be done in such a way that prevents camping but doesn't hurt killers actually doing a proper job. Perhaps it's on me to edit my original post with all updated info on that though.
Also, if this system were to be used perhaps they could tweak other values such as the time it takes to unhook a survivor. If they increased that while giving you the notification that someone has started to unhook someone, there wouldn't be a huge problem, and if someone is in the process of being unhooked the debuff wouldn't apply either (obviously the unhook time would still be small, from the 2 to 3 seconds that it is now to maybe 4 or 5).
Once again I have to ask that instead of bashing my ideas you either give constructive criticism and help develop the ideas in conversation without being offensive, or you give your own ideas as to what could fix the situation and expand on those. If neither of those options are appealing to you then just let the post be buried and die off rather than bumping it.
@Orion Yes, if everyone popped the best luck item in the game that shares with one another that might happen, but what is the chance of that happening then? Do you think that's an every game occurrence? Obviously not, and obviously we're talking about the standard game not the extreme cases.
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Well yes, the idea isn't to implement all of the ideas but just one in each category. Even so, offering more ideas than just one is key to finding a solution and so I always strive to come up with options. Giving constructive criticism is welcome but outright claiming that it would never happen isn't conducive to conversation and isn't something you know for a fact, unless you are one of the devs yourself. Instead, try to point out the flaws in it and help shape a mechanic that is potentially more viable.
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Again, this would only punish them if they're by a hooked survivor for no reason, and just by going out of a short range you can decrease the timer back to zero and reenter for X time without penalty, and it also takes a rather large amount of time for the penalty to stack up so walking by isn't that huge an issue and any penalty for doing so would be minimal and fade off quick if the killer isn't camping. Regardless, if you think this isn't a good idea please offer one that is better and addresses the issue, constructive criticism is welcome, even rude criticism is, but destructive criticism isn't.
As for the unhooking aspect, the animation time in which they try to escape could be increased until a reasonable time is acquired. If we want the probability to stay the exact same we only need to increase the animation time of each escape attempt from 1.2s to 5s for a total of 12 escape attempts. This would align exactly with the current probability and would alleviate the inherent issue, though it would still allow for luck items and perks to be a bit stronger (which I'm all for personally as at the moment there's almost no reason to use them).
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The simple solution to this is as follows;
If a killer rage quits/disconnects during a match survivors should be refunded their items, offerings, and keep all points they have accrued from the match. Awarding them points isn't sensible however as their time isn't being wasted in any way.
If a survivor rage quits/disconnects during a match they should lose all their points, items, and offerings as is already the case and everyone left in the match (survivors and killer both) should be allotted 2000 points for the hindrance/lost potential points from the match. Items and offerings however should still be used up and the match should continue as per normal. Finally, one generator (perhaps one that is the least progressed) should automatically start to make up for the expected work of the person who left.