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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112261#Comment_4112261
Kaneki was special case, as I already explained.
and as i mentioned in the post several times ghoul was just the most obvious example. im not really understanding the miscommunication going on from that front. every killer with a mechanical input has less input delay, artist, billy, unknown, what have you.
it's also just not really clicking that ghoul was fixed because as a result of a wesker change, when wesker released with the same issues he had on ptb. → source
https://x.com/Zyrav_/status/2092949176405406042?s=20
so, again, i just dont really understand how this supposed wesker change had positive effects elsewhere in the game, but had negative effects for wesker himself, therefore the change gets "dialed back" and on the live version of the game, all of the positive things are completely gone, while wesker himself retained all the issues that weren't meant to go live.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111996#Comment_4111996
Less players on ptb, so its much smoother experience. The servers are struggling with regular load i suppose
except that just isnt the case as everyone i know tests their killers on ptb to see if theres any bugs or issues and they didnt say anything similar to this on any other ptb, kaneki worked on over 100 ping which has never over the course of his existence been the case, and thats just one example, the ptb having a lighter load is not the issue
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111857#Comment_4111857
For right now no there's no plans to go back to that PTB version with Wesker given the further problems it caused.
What you might have been noticing on the PTB is just the PTB can often be smoother overall - quite a few people notice this in many PTB's, given less player numbers etc. Definitely there was nothing for the killers and input controls or netcode.
the issue is it wasnt just me, it was alot of other people all noticing different killers felt smoother to play, i dont think that was mass placebo, and kaneki verifiably functioned on ping above 40. i think that should absolutely be a priority to return sooner then later.
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111481#Comment_4111481
there was nothing in the PTB that affected every killer - I am not sure where that's coming from, as we did nothing on our side for that and we have not reverted anything that impacted other killers, Wesker bug fixes that sidely affected Ghoul aside, and those could in no way impact other killers outside of those two.
It is complete misinformation that we changed netcode for the killers in the PTB.
there absolutely was something on the ptb that effected every killer and their input, ghoul worked on over 100 ping, every single killer player mentioned their own killers feeling better with faster inputs, implying that nothing was reverted, or that something was different on the ptb then on the current build of the live game is baffling to say the least.
even still, is the change to wesker, that effected ghoul ever coming back or is it being scrapped? because wesker on live still functions differently, so if hes still not working, and ghoul did, i dont really see why the change shouldnt be pushed forward soon.
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@random1543 said:
All killers should be server sided im not quite understanding and didn't notice a difference in ptb.
from my understanding "Killer client sided" means that the killer would get hit priority even if killer had 200 ping because its prioritizing what the killer sees rather then what the server sees.
I would rather a ghoul with 200 ping not get a hit he dont deserve rather then get it because its taking the guy with 200 ping priority over one with 20 ping.
I want the hits to be checked with server so people with bad ping are not being rewarded in game on either side.you arent understanding the change
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111410#Comment_4111410
Unfortunately there were some side effects that warranted the change, there was no change specifically to Ghoul in the PTB that was a happy side effect, unfortunately there were some pretty significant downsides for Wesker, which meant dialing things back.
can you comment on if the change will come back? it positively effected literally every killer in the game with the exception of wesker, could he have not been the soul exception? because powers feeling unresponsive because of ping is definitely an issue and this change solved it, surely we wouldnt just scrap it?
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@bhvrs_delusion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111446#Comment_4111446
hook stages, status effects, player position (and way too much more) are handled on the clients and are independent of killer powers.
what you're referring to with "every killer with the exception of wesker is server sided" simply means that all killer powers are server sided except for wesker.
you just proved my point more then your own.
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@bhvrs_delusion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111422#Comment_4111422
these exact issues are the result of those specific actions being client sided as well as the server blindly accepting any player origin that's being set by a malicious client. killer bots and aimbots are a different can of worms though.
i've written a post about that here
every killer with the exception of wesker is server sided, so i have no clue what you mean with this, how can these issues be caused by something that isnt in the game.
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@bhvrs_delusion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111410#Comment_4111410
networking takes place on an entirely different layer than gameplay.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111381#Comment_4111381
the issues you mentioned would indeed be solved and my suggestions have nothing to do with overcaution, they're the absolute basic concepts of a proper multiplayer game.
they are over caution because we already have cheaters teleporting across the map, killing people on first hook, killer bots, i versed a slinger who was blatantly aimbotting, what instance of cheating would become noticeably worse because the client holds priority?
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@Mandy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111208#Comment_4111208
a massive part of it yes!
this is a nice response but can you elaborate? why could this not have applied to every other killer except wesker?
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@bhvrs_delusion said:
making killer powers purely client sided would open up even more ways to exploit the game.
what they truly need to do is handle everything server sided while at the same time introducing a proper client prediction. as the name suggests it predicts the behavior of e.g. killer powers on the client which will offer the smoothness you talked about as well as keeping the game safe(ish) from bad actors, since the server could correct an illegal action / move.
i feel like the impression that it would open the game to exploitation is a big assumption not based on much beyond over caution, and diminishes the issues the ptb solved
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Didn't it break Wesker even more though? Or was that something else
it didnt break wesker no, wesker is just currently to my knowledge the only killer who is already client checked before the server, and he got swapped to being server detected first, and this didnt do much other then make his grab detection feel a bit different, and with that in mind, wesker feels the way he does now because hes client sided, and felt worse because he was server sided, now every killer feels worse again because they reverted the change.
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@SoGo said:
Now, I played him last time on the PTB, so I'm not exactly up to date with him.
But, I like these regardless.
Maybe aside the vault and cancel changes, those don't seem like they are needed to me.
i didnt change the cancel timings! i only changed the fatigue when grappling onto a survivor directly!
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970696#Comment_3970696
Whether or not ghoul mains want to see a partial rework shouldn't be a deciding factor, if that's what needs to be done to make him not problematic that's what should happen. Besides, it'd only really hinge on being a rework because there'd be a "new mode" or "new mechanic", but he'd still play plenty similar to how he does now/how he would with your update.
I do very much believe he'd still be problematic with the range reduced to 8m and vaults removed, even if the distance you could hit through an obstacle was reduced too. He has almost no charge time, moves extremely fast/far during the leap/slide, is hitscan, and would still be able to hit over plenty of short obstacles including pallets and windows, which would still be a huge deal. He'd still almost guaranteed to hit you and there'd still be nothing you could do about it, and that is problematic. You shoudn't get pressure like that just by asking for it, and if you're gonna try nerfing it further to make it not guaranteed you might as well go with what I'm suggesting instead.
i don't think what you view as problematic is unanimous. and i don't think we're gonna agree. because the version of this character you want to see, and what most people want to see, are very different. i also still think you're unintentionally disregarding alot of the points ive made about the intentional counterplay these changes in tandem would introduce.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970685#Comment_3970685
For the example of a stance swapping projectile you gave and whatever else, why couldn't that then just apply the mark and then you get to keep enraged mode and everything else? In the alternative (or potentially combinable? idk) case of focusing on the way he currently downs as means for both health states, he could have a new special attack that can be charged after the leap finishes, say with 1.6ms movement speed and 2 seconds (or in the case of buffing it, a bit lower) charge time and a duration/ms matching that of a lunge. This would effectively mimic the effect of having a cancel cooldown a bit shorter 2 seconds without making him faceroll, since you would still have to have gotten close enough to get away with lunging right after finishing the charge time, I think that would actually encourage proper leaping, and the actual cancel cooldown could even be increased a bit with such a system still allowing for good plays. Even with your changes, the free injure would remain problematic, not just because I don't like it, but it would still be an issue. It would still be very very easy even with an 8 meter limited range, and it doesn't solve the fundamental problem.
the thing is, its it would leave the realm of problematic, as you said, it would become "balanced" it would have a definitive counter, and the down itself would massively increase in difficulty. i think your suggestion hinges on an almost complete rework and i just cant imagine i, or most ghoul players would. ever want to see that. i think there's a possibility that your massively underrating the range decrease, as well as the inability to hit over windows and pallets beyond incredibly short distance.
the one concession i will make, is i think if you absolutely had to add a stance swapping mechanic, i wouldn't be ideologically opposed so long as his normal grapple mode, the version we have now, was left completely untouched. but that system is almost impossible to discuss as its a theoretical entire new system.
i do appreciate the way you always look for solutions for things you view as problematic, but i cant agree that my changes would leave this version of the grab-attack unhealthy, or in anyway problematic. possibly unfun, depending on your view point, but nowhere near unhealthy.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970668#Comment_3970668
Literally all you would have to do is remove it and replace it with something else. Sure the injury has a very long cooldown, that makes it balanced, not well designed. No reason to believe he would have to become equally obnoxious either, how much more obnoxious could you realistically get than a free injure? If they just made the way to get an injure the same as the way to currently get a down, buffed it a decent bit to keep him reasonably strong, he'd 100% be more fun to vs than he is now. Just as strong =/= just as obnoxious.
there's every reason to assume it would be more annoying, if you were to remove the system in its entirety, but i digress. if you were to replace the system with a stance swapping projectile or something, i dont see why you couldn't do that. but i dont entirely see the point. getting rid of the injury as a mechanic gets rid of enraged as a mechanic, dulling him down, and gets rid of the mark, which gets rid of prompt stealing, and assuming you still want to get rid of the vault. the only realistic tuning nob would be reducing the the cancel cooldown, which depletes the necessity to leap properly as the cooldown would be so short it would be realistically unreactable. once you nerf the bite range, and get rid of vaults. there's no reason to touch this mechanic anymore. doing so would largely be because the person doing it doesn't like the mechanic, and not because it needs a change.
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@lettuchia said:
Grab attacks should be removed completely regardless of how much would have to be done to make up for it, free injures are never healthy
the amount of retuning and redesigning you'd have to do in order to make this a practical is a terrible idea. the injury while currently free causes an very long cooldown before you get the power back, leading to a long time of breathing room. the amount of buffs youd need to give him in order for him to be strong enough to deal with a chase with two health states would lead him to being equally obnoxious.
there's also something i should elaborate on, as its not directly stated in the post. removing the vault, and reducing the range would inject intentional counterplay into the ability, as he cant vault over an obstacle anymore, meaning if your playing a resource well, you theoretically wouldn't get injured. removing the grab-attack is simply an identity shift that should never happen.
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Yeah I actually completely agree with an addon pass, if I had more time(or was a bit more creative) id likely have written up a fully fleshed out addon pass, but regardless you're completely right!
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
I think a lot of this is okay but I do feel like the fatigue duration after ending the power needs a slight increase as well (but only slight, no more than +0.5 seconds). It is a part of his power which can offer a decent amount of skill expression so I don't want to nerf it too much, but in my opinion 2 seconds is simply too little of a window for survivors to have a realistic chance in a lot of cases. Even just 2.5 I think would help a lot.
Obviously removing the vault would be a big change but I'd agree if something is to be removed from his kit altogether then it should be this, it's the least interactive and least skillful component of his power and removing it also immediately eliminates the pain points around kidnap and its awkward counterplay.
I agree that reverting the power range to 16m is probably fair compensation for removing the vault (although maybe Handkerchief should get reworked then, idk if >16m should be a possibility again). I wouldn't agree with Coffee becoming basekit though.
But overall I like most of your suggestions, this is a good start.
edit: also want to add that the CCG ID Card addon would also need to be reworked, as removing the leap vault makes it obsolete
Yeah I completely forgot about ccg card, I appreciate you being respectful about your disagreements. I dont think an increase to his cancel fatigue should ever happen. 2 seconds exactly enough time to reward a well placed series of Leaps with an m1. Increasing it ironically would be a much more damning nerf then the vault. You would eliminate all skill expression. As for my suggested buffs, I dont entirely view the range buff as a buff, and more of a reversion to a nerf he never really deserved. As for coffee, I think the fact that nearly 90% of ghouls you run into are using the addon, indicates it's either overtuned(its not) it's making up for a flaw in his kit. I think making it basekit is almost required if we were to remove the vault, and severely hinder the grab-attack.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969793#Comment_3969793
I didn‘t call you stupid, only your comparison with blight.
If you aren't playing kaneki for bodyblocks, or catching up in chase, you're only playing him to vault over obstacles, which i dont think is a mechanic that's healthy or skillfull. That's like not wanting to play "bump logic blight" so you just brutal everything.
There you make assumptions of me that are not true while calling me indirectly skillless. I‘m not using him only for vaults and you compare a mechanic that is super easy to use (blight) with one that is super buggy and clunky (kaneki). If the devs would make it easier to play for body-blocks I would do it, but I don‘t want a complete identity shift for kaneki like you do want one. About the other things we disagree isn‘t it possible that other people have different opinions and isn‘t their opinion valid as well or only yours?!
you're putting alot of words in my mouth
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@jedimaster505 said:
the irony when killer mains suggest a killer change, is that they almost always pretend they're being reasonable by nerfing the killer slightly, then asking for several more buffs which would make the killer just as bad if not worse to play against. Kaneki needs 0 buffs whatsoever and only nerfs. He needs a bigger cooldown when he cancels his power and when he leaps over vaults since he both slows the survivor and vaults very quickly and can hit you almost immediately afterwards. also, the first free hit should require him to aim instead of being an aim bot.
you can't greed pallets or he just M1's you. you can't pre drop or he just fast vaults and downs you. you have to stun him like a legion stand off and pray he's too stupid to back up a foot when you drop the pallet. basically, it requires the survivor to have several times more skill than the Kaneki to even stand a chance to prolong the chase. currently a moderately competent kaneki can turn any god loop into a 50/50 where the survivor has to get a stun or will get downed after the first free hit. it's broken BS and needs a heavy nerf with no buffs whatsoever to compensate.
fortunately, in practice most Kaneki players are very bad mechanically at playing the killer since like most Blight players, they main the killer to tunnel for easy 4K wins with minimal effort. the only reason kaneki is not currently as oppressive as Nurse and Blight despite Kaneki requiring far less skill to learn, is that Nurse/Blight players have had thousands of hours to master abusing their mechanics to their full potential. whereas most kaneki players are only semi-aware of how to abuse his broken mechanics so if you're a seasoned survivor you can punish their ignorance when in principal the Kaneki should never lose.
lastly, putting lots of exclamation marks and spamming the same convoluted descriptions in multiple posts does not make those changes a good idea. in general BHVR overthinks killer changes and reworks way too much when all that is needed is a nerf to their speed to make their OP cheese tactics less effective, leaving less room for error for the killer. survivors in general are expected to be God tier loopers just to escape against mediocre average skill killers, which makes no sense in a PvP but not much I can do about it.
i nerfed nearly every element of his kit. his vault is completely gone, his grab-attack is significantly worse. 3 of his most problematic add-ons got completely reworked. and his pallet break would be a consistent 5 seconds of breathing room. i think thats more then reasonable to suggest one addon he uses every game to be basekit, another niche addon aswell, a range reversion, which is barely a buff and more of a reversion, and a small quality of life change in the form of minimum leap distence being decreased by 2 meters, aswell as a 0.25 second buff to an already naturally higher input fatigue. this weird conclusion you've jumped to is incredibly weird, and you clearly don't understand game design or balance. please dont put words in my mouth again.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3969769#Comment_3969769
The vault currently is fine, except kidnap tech which is a bit overtuned. Survivors can easily outplay it on most structures if they play it right.
The vault being impossible to balance is simply untrue. There is nothing wrong with it only working at stronger tiles when you make it slower, but it is fine at the moment.
As for your other critisms i couldn't disagree more. If you aren't playing kaneki for bodyblocks, or catching up in chase, you're only playing him to vault over obstacles, which i dont think is a mechanic that's healthy or skillfull
I play kaneki for all his tools, not just one thing. I like all his abilities. I said nowhere that I only play him for the vault. It also doesn’t matter that you think it is not healthy or not super skillful. Most abilities in dbd don’t require much skill and the healthy argument is only used by people that don‘t like stuff. It has 0 weight.
The bodyblocking is insanely clunky to use, so your comparison is completely stupid. If it was an intended mechanic, behavior would have polished the power to use it that way, but it is nothing the devs thought of while creating him. Otherwise it wouldn‘t suck trying that on console, which is why I don’t do it.
Finally there is nothing unhealthy about those two addons. I don‘t even use them. As for the window blocker. Bambuzle is way better in every way and gives you vault speed as well. The mask already got nerfed after which I stopped using it. According to your logic BBQ and bambuzle are u healthy perks.
I understand what you want for him, but have you maybe thought about other people???? Not everyone wants your version! I‘m not against nerfing him and making him more difficult to play by giving survivors more counterplay, but he doesn‘t need a new identity and a complete change of his gameplay.
Im gonna be honest I was gonna have a good faith conversation with you, but considering you've undermined everything I've said, called me stupid, and said the vault in its current form is "fine" I have no interest in continuing. You dont even fully understand the points your arguing against. I debunked the bbq argument in the section about the addon, so it's unlikely you even read everything i said anyhow. Thank you for your thoughts though.
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@Langweilig said:
Good changes
- Increase Kagune Leaps range to 16 meters(was 14)
- Decrease Kagune Leaps minimum leap range to 3 meters(was 5)
- Reduced the maximum Range a Grab-attack can be triggered to 8 meters
Unsure change
- Reworked the forced cool-down system into a "power disable"
Bad changes
- Completely removed the ability to vault using Kagune Leap
There is no need to do that. I don‘t like parts of other killers powers as well, but do I ask to remove them? No! They can nerf the numbers a bit even tho it isn‘t needed. It was already a shame that chucky got his scamper removed, when all he needed was starting the cooldown after scampering a pallet and making it a bit slower outside of slice and dice.
- Reworked the following add-ons - Yamori's mask, Red headed centipede, iridescent Eye-patch
Eye-patch agree, this addon is useless. The other two are perfectly fine.
- Decrease the additional fatigue from a "Kagune swipe" to 2.25 seconds(was 2.5) and Decrease the movement speed penalty to 1.15 meters(was 0.92 meters)
Other killers can down with their power directly, which is why he has a short cancel. He would suck with this change and feel terrible to play. Not everyone wants to play bodyblock ghoul.
- Added the effects of "fresh coffee" and "kaneki's satchel to the basekit"
Coffee is a very strong addon and should not become basekit. For satchel I‘m open, because the third leap doesn’t have much of a purpose, but this buff isn’t needed.
Nerfs that I think he deserves- Kidnap tech nerfed by reducing the time survivors can‘t move after vaulting a pallet. This is probbaly the biggested frustration people have when playing against him.
- Reducing the hitscan hitbox by a little bit would make him more skillful and allow to miss an attack and pull yourself to something, which would lead to some fun moments for survivors and make it no longer completely free. The free injury is the only problem I have with this killer.
- Reduce the time he has to start another leap from 5 to 4-3seconds. Same reason as above.
Its not a matter of not liking the vault, it's a matter of the vault being impossible to balance properly like I said underneath. If you decrease the speed the ability becomes pointless, the ability can already be countered if the players know how to verse it, that doesnt stop it from being annoying and unintutive to counter. The only variant that would still be a worthwhile change is removing first leap Vaults, and still allowing him to vault with the subsequent two. But even that's a trivial change as the other two are so easy to counter that it would only be useful against bad players. And the scamper comparsion is exactly why it should go.
As for your other critisms i couldn't disagree more. If you aren't playing kaneki for bodyblocks, or catching up in chase, you're only playing him to vault over obstacles, which i dont think is a mechanic that's healthy or skillfull. That's like not wanting to play "bump logic blight" so you just brutal everything. Mask and centipede are nearly objectively not "fine" and I urge you to learn about how unhealthy these addons are.
I think you dont think you fully understand all the changes and what im asking for the character to be transformed into, which is okay!
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@Klomlong1 said:
So I like the idea of these changes but I think these would kill the character. As a ghoul hater myself, I believe the changes that should happen is make vaulting in enrage the same speed as vaulting when not enraged, fix his bugs, remove the kidnap tech (which isnt a bug weirdly), make the manual canceling longer and make his power projectile rather than hit scan.
i couldnt agree less to be honest with you, kaneki would be far more rewarded for correct plays aswell as being enabled to do so, making the vault slower depletes the reason for its existence, as it becomes pointless in chase, making the Leap a projectile is something theyve already stated felt terrible during testing, and i have reason to believe them on this. these changes would not kill the character, he may ironically be the strongest he ever was in the hands of someone good at using his power in chase.
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i dont agree to be honest! the 2 second fatigue allows kaneki to play tiles, preform bodyblocks, and yes, have presence throughout the map. there's typically no time where kaneki landing directly behind you should result in a down if you positioned properly. the vault simply pressures the survivor to much to be allowed to remain in its current state, and is far less counterable then the fatigue time. a killer without a direct ability to down must have a short fatigue to remain lethal, increasing the cancel cooldown would kill the killer, and is simply something that should never be done.
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@Hostmann said:
Phenomenal suggestions yet again! One thing I don't see happening, however, is them completely removing vaulting since Kaneki has special animations for that and BHVR have stated in the past that they'll never completely remove special animations or mechanics that they've already put work into, as that would be a waste of resources (this is why they changed Billy's Overheat into Overdrive, instead of removing the mechanic completely).
I would suggest the time it takes for him to vault in enraged mode would be the same as when he's not enraged, essentially giving him a slightly weaker version of Wesker's vault, which should be perfectly balanced as it only has the potential to outplay some god-pallets.thank you! i appreciate the kind words and criticism! i think in a world where we need to keep the vault as a mechanic, i think first leap vaults should be the priority for removal, and then you can do a vault action on the second or third, another possible outcome is removing the ability to vault over pallets, but maintaining the ability for windows. i think reducing the speed just leaves it in a spot where its weak, but cant be buffed. but i see your point of view
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game breaking, high priority fix
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937787#Comment_3937787
I haven't ignored anything, you just haven't explained anything, instead just re-iterated what you said in the post.
Why is Yamori's Mask unhealthy? saying there is "no debate" without explaining is ridiculous.
How is Centipede un-interactive?
Why is add-ons freeing up perk slots a problem? As a reminder centipede isn't the only add-on that blocks windows, nor is yamori's mask the only add-on that aids in detection. So the issue would extend beyond ghoul.please refer to the paragraph you ignored!
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937503#Comment_3937503
You have no idea what you are talking about. This isn't a small pink line. It's a significantly-sized graphic that depicts an open mouth when a survivor can be auto-aimed.
i know exactly what im talking about, i was trying to politely inform you that the graphic isn't the reason your being found, and hiding in general is often a really poor choice. if hes close enough to you to be currently aimed on you, you were going to be found regardless, and we're really hidden. thanks!
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937781#Comment_3937781
What, and you do? You cannot even explain your own opinions.
please refer to the paragraph you ignored!
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937766#Comment_3937766
Gens are the only aura. Who uses distortion anymore? BBQ allows you to track and identify survivors and yamori's mask reveals it self. A large scream bubble is also not precise. It not working with calm spirit is definitely unintended. It's not constant information, you have to hit with power and down and hook each time, same as bbq. Again, don't know why BHVR giving a useful add-on that are just replica of 6+ year old perks is unhealthy. It "frees" up slots… so?
Bamboozle blocks on power vaults so it's objectively better than centipede. Once again throwing around "uninteractive" "uninteresting" as justifications for removing something. "Objectively overtuned" requires data to prove that, which we don't have access to.i cannot explain in clearer terms, if you disagree thats perfectly fine but you dont have a good grasp on game health, or game design.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937683#Comment_3937683
Both killers have BBQ which is better.
Who is vaulting multiple windows in 10 seconds… and Bamboozle is still better. You don't explain why you think these things are unhealthy or uninteresting.i did, but ill get specific one more time. firstly, BBQ is not better, at all. BBQ can be countered by hiding behind other auras, or with distortion, mask for whatever reason makes you scream regardless of if you have calm spirit, and even if it didnt, having constant information, in one addon slot, for doing exactly what youd be doing anyway. on a killer who's more then able to capitalize on that much information, is incredibly unhealthy, there is NO debate here.
as for centipede, the vault speed you get from enraged vaulting is insanely quick, its incredibly easy to reasonably get two window vaults, within that time. additionally this is an addon slot, that both makes your powered vaults block, and any vault you preform during enraged also block, its a 5 second difference and blocks multiple windows, its uninteractive, and even more so, uninteresting. you could probably keep centipede if you absolutely had to after the vault nerf i suggest, but its still largely boring design. and on live servers its objectively overtuned. its also worth noting, because you keep mentioning it. using either addon free's up room in your build to use some sort of slowdown, the perk equivalents of these addons are not better, not even close. hope my points have been made as clear as they can be!
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937559#Comment_3937559
Still does not address why that's a problem. It's taking away power for the sake of it. They are not the only add-ons that block vaults or aid in detection, that therefore would also count as "perks".
yamori's mask is constant information for no input, imagine if blight had an addon that just showed you everyones aura's at all times. its completely unreasonable to have it exist in its current form, centipede could reasonably exist assuming you were to remove the first leap vaults, but the fact centipede applies to ALL vaults when enraged, and lasts on multiple windows at once, leaves it to being rather unhealthy.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3937426#Comment_3937426
No.. they would NOT hit me if they do not know I am there in the first place.
i assure you the small pink line is not the reason you're getting found
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Another really frustrating thing with the ghoul is you can't really hide from him.
I've been in many situations, hiding behind a rock, pallet, wall, bush, or some place pretty much 90% of killer players will miss as they run off to some other objective they are chasing. Then ghoul uses their power for mobility, and that BIG GLARING MOUTH GRAPHICS lights up and rats out my location like a spotlight.
Just remove that stupid graphic that gives them free intel, and let them figure out for themselves when they have a valid survivor target. Also you know what would also be great? Treat it like a projectile, not a hitscan.
nah these are both poor ideas, the grab attack wasn't designed to be a dodgeable attack, as explained by the devs, they prioritized the mobility aspect of the kit feeling smooth, rather then the projectile based, changing this would require a rework to the entire system, which largely serves no purpose. as for the info graphic, that takes away information from the ghoul player, does nothing about the strength of the ability, and doesn't really do anything about the problem you mention, if the killer is that close to you, they'd hit you regardless of any change you make to the ability, these issues aren't balance, they are personal grievances.
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@Cykosu said:
I would 100% be okay with all of these changes, It doesn't hurt the skillful play at all, arguably would make him feel MORE skillful to play as, I love it!
this means alot coming from you! thanks so much for giving it a read! :D
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@Stibfa said:
As a ghoul main myself that tries go for bodyblocks
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TA5XO3NCVD3T/1000025879.gif
I wouldnt be against any of your changes, i think 2 sec swipe fatigue is not really needed because you can already body block the pallet or window which is harder to do then the swipe. Other then that these are some healthy changes!
sick clip, personally i think the swipe fatigue should be shorter in general, you could go 2.25, but personally it feels rather unintuitive, and adds another layer to his chases, but i really appreciate the feedback!
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@Mandy said:
Unfortunately the kill switch removes the character from selection - there's no way we can make a quick change for this I'm afraid. It would require rework of the programming etc behind the kill switch.
So we're just gonna be unable to get offerings on a character we paid for during a once a year event?
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@DY86 said:
Ive said this before but, the game is balanced around this set FOV.
Some killers such GhostFace and Myers would benefit tremendously from wider FOV, as they could stalk so much more that It would require rebalancing their kit probably. ( and they aren’t even top tier killers)
But most importantly wider FOV on survivors would make chases/mindgames much easier (just watch old videos of survivors with stretched resolution).
Also, maybe DBD engine could not properly run with such wider fov. I remember CoD MW 2019 they didn’t add fov sliders cause It would make older gen consoles crash, and cause inconsistent frame rate as well
You just made the last part up lmao
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@DY86 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420460#Comment_3420460
Rebalance accordingly how exactly? Its easy said than done. Overhauling a whole game to cater to different fovs is something that must take everything into account. How do u propose that?
15 degrees is not the same as 35. Also FOV perks dont stack as well so. Just so you know, fov on survivors is not “requested” because of events in the beginning of DBD. As Survivors with stretched resolution (therefore wider fov) was broken. Just a FYI. High tier survivors back then did not lose mindgames because of this unfair advantage. And believe you me, if they were to implement FOV sliders for Killers, survs would def want as well.
Hey you have no idea what you're talking about
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@CleanseThis said:
Im of the opinion the only reason MMR is even in this dumpster-fire of a game is because if it wasn't, BHVR would lose tons of new players (revenue) because SWF sabo-squads will constantly be getting matched up with newbies since new players make up the majority of the player base and BHVR just can't allow that.
But that logic fails when you find out even the new player experience typically bad
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@ThiccBudhha said:
For casuals who just want to chill, bro. It works, it really does.
But if doesn't tho
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@Clevite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2722261#Comment_2722261
The simple truth is it doesn't matter.
People on here talk about how stressed they are and unfun the game is, but then state "they love it and won't leave". So, why should BeHvr care? People are sticking with this game regardless.
They said MMR isn't going anywhere, and I am taking them at their word.
They continue to bring in new players, and that seems to be their priority.
I mean that's true, i suppose it's beating a dead horse, but that's the point of a company keeping something in the game that injures the fun of the game? My main question is that if the vocal majority isn't enjoying it, or at the very least preferred old rank based match making, why is it here? At first i thought they added it to balance the game properly but we haven't really seen to much of that as of late ya know?
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@dugman said:
- I don't have a problem with MMR, my matches are pretty reasonable. Just my personal anecdote.
- "Nearly the entire community" isn't complaining about anything either way. Most players don't even come on the forums at all let alone complain about MMR or even understand what MMR actually is.
- The Steamchart numbers are about the same for December as they were for November. The game didn't have a mass exodus this month. (In fact, every December going back a few years DbD loses about 1% of its player base since it's a lull between chapters and gains a bunch of people in the Spring when the next big chapter releases, which in this case will be Ringu.)
Im glad you don't have a problem with MMR, but you are flat out wrong when it comes to the community not being upset about it, open twitter, YouTube, steam, twitch and you will see thousands of people that are just flat out bored or upset about the state of the game. And i don't really care about steam numbers, the game isn't dying it's just not in the best place in my opinion.
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I haven't played the new patch but I've heard that it's even worse then prior to the first hotfix, with the event in literally less then a day the fact that console players are either going to have to suck it up to enjoy the event or literally not be able to play is terrible. I don't know if the freezes are a PC problem too but if they are RIP the game.
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@Wedeguy said:
Second hook - I was on a safe loop and the zombie just comes from one side and Nemesis from the other side. I'm dead for nothing.
Third Hook - I went into house of pain cause he was tunneling me. I see Nemesis coming down the stairs so i go up to the window - I vault - boom a zombie just standa literally ON the window and hits me.
It's dumb. the killer did nothing and his zombies took me out of the game.
this killer already has a decent anti loop why does he needs a free hand by hand mechanic to help him kill suvivors when they just want to defend themselves.
The zombies are incredibly slow moving, loud and stupid, I've seen zombies literally walk into walls while a survivor is 2 feet from them, the zombies are not even close to overpowered. Can they cause a chase to end? Yeah. You know what else can end a chase? Most of the powers in the game.
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@BigSosa said:
The real problem is that they don't know how to make an MMR system. First of all MMR does work and its tried and tested in thousands of games in all genre's... From Overwatch to Counterstrike, From League to Dota from WOW arena to Elderscrolls arena and everything in between. MMR does work and matches you with people in your skill bracket (if they code it properly).
Clearly BHVR has something wrong with their MMR system and it isn't working with their spaghetti code. as a red rank i can go multiple games in a row with all red players. then i have some games in a row where i'm the only red player and the other 4 people are rank 20 on new accounts... If MMR was turned on and was working, this would be impossible... also to test it half way through rank reset wont work, they need to completely reset everyone's account MMR to get any valid feedback.
A lot of people are complaining all they are getting is sweaty red ranks, well the red ranks are not happy that you are bad, it's not fun either way.
If they get MMR to work properly only the good players will be in red ranks and the people who don't want to try hard will hover around purple and green ranks (where they should be anyway) and it wont affect their gameplay, they just wont have the undeserved red rank.
Personally, i don't think mmr or skill based match making belongs in this game. Fact of the matter is this game isn't perfectly balanced, and it probably never will be and it probably shouldn't be. But mmr only belongs in competitive games that have perfect balance in game design. Dbd is very fun but not an export game. At high mmr the only killers that will last are spirit and nurse. I think personally the ranking system is good, it just needs to be refined and tuned. Hell make it harder to get pips or increase rank 20 to rank 40 so getting to those high ranks is much harder and much more indicative of Skill. But mmr will make the game sweaty, repetitive, and probably unfun. The current wonky matchmaking actually made dbd quite fun, sometimes you get a full team of very good survivors, other times you get half good half bad, and others just bad. And there are other problems with mmr too, for example, the resident evil chapter comes out soon right? Well if you play survivor with a decent mmr you won't even run into the new killer for days as the player mmr won't have reached your level. I hope that makes sense. I honestly hope they scrap the idea entirely.
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I agree, i mean, i know that they aren't forced to give us anything. But the game is half playable at the moment, and the Christmas rewards arent very exciting. Bloodpoints i guess are alright but lack luster being 10k a day which roughly rounds up to about 300k, and the shards got halfed? Why? Even if you gave us 1000 for the whole event that's still only 5k a week. You'd still need to regular grind the other 4k for a character and even more for a skin.