beerey
beerey
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@ThatRyanB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017567#Comment_4017567
Would you happen to have any screenshots you could share of this? I'd love to share these concrete examples with the team.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017570#Comment_4017570
If you have any screenshots of these multiple filler loops chaining together, they would be incredibly helpful for us to bring back to the team.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017575#Comment_4017575
Would you be able to share screenshots highlighting these god pallets? I can make sure these are flagged to the team!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017700#Comment_4017700
Thanks for taking the time to share all of this! I'll be sure to go through this and include any relevant notes for the respective Realms.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017881#Comment_4017881
Do you have any screenshots you'd be able to share of these particularly strong loops? I'd love to bring concrete examples back to the team.
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@adam1233467 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4017562#Comment_4017562
I don't know why there is still a jungle gym with 2 windows in 2025 honestly
Still waiting for the swamp rework...
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The pallet spread in this realm is so tight now to the point where you can literally have 2 pallets spawn inside a filler tile (not to be confused with double pallet fillers) + another filler/tile RIGHT next to it.
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2 pallets being able to spawn inside of a double window tile in one of the swamp maps is hilariously ridiculous.
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Torment Creek might be the worst offender out of all Coldwind maps after the pallet density update.
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I think the go-next prevention system should come back now that early/mid-game tunneling is effectively gone with those changes. Remember that people were complaining about that system because their beginner teammates were being tunneled and died too early into the game which falsely triggered the system.
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Ok I made some tweaks to these suggestions, they're a lot more focused on Security Doors this time.
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Ok after my billionth edit on these suggestions, I think this is THE definitive version of my change list.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970589#Comment_3970589
Made for this makes you cross 126m (map distance) 1.5s faster. It has no impact in short bursts.
You are not meant to use MFT in a straight line, there's a reason why it was considered OP back when it first released.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3970589#Comment_3970589
Meant to stick on tiles and play them unless the ghoul immediately breaks the pallet which does not drain tokens while the power is recharging, then they swing to your position when you have the temerity to try to get away, cancel their power on your ass and just down you anyway because you do chases with ghoul with one health state.
Which is literally what this update is meant to address, power disables no matter what after you break a pallet, which would preferably be somewhere around 5 seconds.
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@Elan said:
I think the main point of the Ghoul frustration is mainly the catch up-cancel to instant m1. I don't think the vaults are the problem, I would even buff his base leap speed and range. But the cancel needs some tweaks. I literally M1 someone and catch up to him 2s later cancel straight behind him and m1 him again. Injure and down in 5s, across 24m. The deep wounds can go too. And people who say, but Made for this… MFT makes you run cross map 1.5s faster, it's not counter. And if someone tells me that cancel is skill expression, it's not. It's same like pressing m2 to deploy drone with chess merchant.
Ghoul's whole chase lethality, if you neglect power vaults of course, comes from the 2 second cancel cooldown, make it any higher and you effectively strip away his whole identity.
Dash Killers usually have higher cooldowns on their powers because they can down DIRECTLY with them like Blight for example who has a 2.5 sec miss cooldown. The main outlier is Vecna who has a 2.75 sec fatigue after ending Fly even if he cannot hit survivors directly while using it and that's because the spell itself is not meant to guarantee downs, Mage Hand and Flight of The Damned are meant for that.
Not to mention that a higher cancel cooldown for Ghoul would still not help survivors in scenarios where they literally have no resources near them, similar to every dash killer in the game.
Also a lot of people seem to be unaware of the fact that pressing the 'cancel Kagune Leap' button while Ghoul is leaping makes it so he enters the fatigue only after the dash itself ends, not during it.
You're never meant to be holding W against Ghoul in chase if his power isn't on cooldown, you're forced to play and stick by the tile, and then hold W if the Ghoul player either misplays or if they decide to break a pallet which puts their power on cooldown.
By the way, Made For This does make a big difference if you're deep wounded against Ghoul. But of course that's only the case if you're in a tile as survivor and not in the middle of nowhere.
Oh and one last thing, Ghoul's power vaults just lead to extremely boring gameplay on both sides. It's obnoxiously strong, especially by taking kidnap-tech into the equation, if the survivor doesn't know how to directly counter it (you literally need to go on Twitter and search for counterplay), and when the survivor does know how to counter his power vault, it practically becomes useless if Ghoul isn't both in Enraged mode and using his first leap to latch onto a survivor and vault a pallet, which is also unhealthy and skilless design.
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@ThatRyanB said:
Thanks for taking the time to raise that here! Our team's seen the discussion and concerns from the community on this. We shared a little update in the AMA thread this morning to add some nuance to the topic, as our original message was a little abrupt and didn't get to the core of players' concerns. Lemme share that here.
Whilst yes, the commonly known "kidnap tech" is not a bug, it's a by-product of The Ghoul's ability, admittedly this interaction around a pallet is unintended. As Jeff has confirmed in the AMA, this friction point with The Ghoul's kit is something that's on our radar to be addressed.
Thank you so much for your transparency and quick responses on this matter 🙏 I hope the dev team can gather enough feedback to know what to do with Ghoul from here on out.
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Alright, after hearing about the most recent revelations about Ghoul yesterday, I decided to update this change list to include the removal of power vaults alongside other add-on changes which are related to this mechanic. All my reasoning behind these changes are laid out in the forum post.
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If anything this opens up for the argument of making Ghoul unable to vault in power completely since countering 2nd/3rd leap vaults is a knowledge check, which not a lot of survivors can pass. Of course, you'd need to give big compensation buffs to Ghoul if you decided to do that.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3965202#Comment_3965202
He can't attack on the first dash, the Ghoul can't attack on any, which makes it extremely easy to deal with them in a loop. And god pallet is something that shouldn't exist in this game
One thing to note is that I purposefully want first leap vaults removed while knowing that good survivors can prevent you from vaulting with your 2nd/3rd leap by bodyblocking and/or vaulting continuously similar to what they would do against a Wraith while he's cloaked. As of right now there's little you can to counter Ghoul's vault with their 1st leap, their cancel duration when they cancel their initial wind-up animation (1 second) is much shorter compared to cancelling afterwards while in power (2 seconds), so by the presence of 1st leap vaults Ghoul will always win a pallet stand-off as they can wind-up their power and then cancel immediately to fool the survivor into thinking that they're gonna M1 directly, forcing the survivor to drop the pallet and then getting a guaranteed use out of your power vault. Something which Ghoul cannot do with their 2nd/3rd leap. Every other buff in this update is meant to compensate for Ghoul's vault lethality, grab-attack, and some of his strongest add-ons' strength being diminished.
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@TxQ said:
Did they fix this bug? 🥺🙏🏻
It will be fixed when TWD chapter releases fortunately
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Added even more stuff!
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I recently updated this post I made months ago, some of these changes are heavily inspired by Bnork since we share the same approach for Ghoul.
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@SoGo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3956665#Comment_3956665
It's probably yet another oversight.
Carrying speed is standardized, so everyone should have it the same.
You're probably right about it being an oversight. Wish they'd give him a seperate movement speed multiplier whenever he's 115, that would make it so he's neither faster nor slower when carrying survivors depending on what base movement speed he has.
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@Elan said:
I believe it was because of the bug with haste add ons that made him move at insane speed while carrying. That paired with "backpack" perks allowed you to slug people cross map. It was weird bug.
The bug was fixed in the hotfix prior to this new one without any need of touching his numbers, so I doubt it's because of that.
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@TimberGoingDown said:
Wow. So you want to make him an S+ tier killer. Interesting.
Springtrap wouldn't even beclose to Blight/Billy/Nurse with my proposed changes, he'd be mid-A at most, not even better than Spirit or Singularity.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/448882/springtrap-buffs-nerfs-suggestion
To be honest, buffs are fine but those nerfs are not reasonable. Springtrap main strenght is zoning (it's still worse than on demo or pyramid head), so limitation to how long he can hold axe is not good. At the moment he has some bug that makes him look different direction that he is aiming, which will be hopefully bugged along with the gigaagitation exploit. But he doesn't really need nerfs. I feel that zoning killers will never be as fun to play against, but he at least has fun counterplays and decent cooldown for follow-up actions.
KNOWN BUGS
→ invisibility when leaving door
→ exploited speed when pairing agitation with haste add ons
→ missdirections when aiming axe
Thanks for the constructive feedback! I fully agree that mid-range zoners will never be that fun to play against (on the 1v1 side), but mitigating their zoning potentials while also buffing their more skillful playstyles would make them go in a great direction in terms of design (kind of similar to what the devs did with Xenomorph not so long ago). I'll conceed to the fact that my proposed nerfs are a tad too harsh (mainly the cancel cooldown nerf) so they probably still need some finetuning.
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I tweaked a couple of values when it comes to the nerfs section! Feedback would be appreciated.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3931133#Comment_3931133
I mean it's true that many survivors don't always know how to counterplay him very well. On the other hand I have gone against good survivors that did know and generally was still able to do decently.
The more I think about it though, the more I think all these changes together would be pretty busted. Especially since they don't make his counterplay more intuitive. The cooldown reductions plus maybe a small duration buff to fly would be more than enough to compensate for the item buffs. Still, the ideas in theory sound fun, I just think they are too much, and more importantly, unnecessary.
Personally, as I said, I would just be happy if they increased fly's duration to 4.5 seconds and decreased mage hand's blocking pallet duration from 3 to 4 seconds. And them some buffs to his weaker addons, as well as a slight rework to Boots of Speed, which I find to be unhealthy addons at the moment.
. (Doing this just in case you didn't get a notification for my response)
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Also if anybody is seeing these suggestions now they're practically outdated!
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Since the PTB's feedback/bug report sections are both gone, this is the only way for me to directly respond to your messages without DMing you.
I just wanted to say that you were right about everything and I'm being fully honest when I say this. Vecna feels so much better now in every way, shape or form basekit wise.
I still want them to revisit some add-ons later down the line but he's almost as perfect as he can possibly be now.
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VECNA BUFFS AAAAAA TYSM BHVR
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@ad19970 said:
As a Vecna main I definitely feel the need to comment on these changes.
All in all, I would say these changes are very interesting, and not even necessarily that bad, even though they would be too much in my eyes. They would shake up Vecna and how he is played quite a bit.
But here's the main thing: I think Vecna the way he is now is near perfect. I absolutely love to play him and think he is insanely fun to go against as well. So for me the biggest question would be why change him in such drastic ways at all? I think he is very well balanced the way he is now.
Addressing some of the changes here, I think one problem I see is that you make every spell stronger than currently, while also buffing the corresponding item that counters that spell. But that will just make counterplay against these spells more dependent on the specific items you have. It would still work, these spells would still have counterplay without the corresponding items, but I think the way it's right now is perfectly fine.
Though I do agree that right now there is a power discrepancy between the magic items, the interloper being the best one, the skyguard and the archivist being good and the nightwatch being only meh.
Fly seems overbuffed to me. I think it would be too easy to catch up to a survivor in between tiles, cancel fly right on top of them and then get a hit against them just like that.
I also don't see a reason to change Flight of the Damned like that personally. The same kind of goes for Dispelling Sphere, though those changes seem fairer to me.
I think just reducing the cooldowns like you suggest would be enough to compensate for the magic items buffs. If you also buff the individual power, things could become too much. We can't forget that Vecna already has a 66% kill rate. And yes, killers can't just be balanced around kill rates, but they should at least be considered when balancing a killer as well.
Overall, while these changes look interesting, I think they just seem unnecessary, and would probably also overbuff Vecna a bit. I made a list of changes myself on Vecna, and honestly, there are only two basekit changes I would like to see: Fly's duration should be increased to 4.5 or 5 seconds, and Mage Hand's pallet blocking duration should be decreased from 4 to 3 seconds. And maybe Vecna should gain collision during the post cast cooldown of fly, but I am not certain on that last one yet. Then a few changes to some of his addons and I feel he would be perfect.
Thank you so much for the constructive feedback! I'd also consider myself a Vecna main who definitely enjoys playing him A LOT and win about 95% of my games as him.
Nevertheless, I still feel that most of the aspects in his power relies for the most part on survivors lacking knowledge, and that he falls behind more and more as survivors grow in skill. Of course, knowing his counterplay isn't as intuitive as other killers like Unknown and Wesker which makes it so most of the playerbase has yet to properly learn how to play against him and this phenomenon is directly correlated to his inflated killrate.
I'd love to test my Fly suggestions in a real environment because, much like you, I do feel that they go a bit overboard in some areas and that finetuning them to the perfect value through playtesting would be more than welcome.
Although I would certainly comprise on just lowering his cooldowns and an add-on or two to be made basekit for him just like you mentioned.
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I changed a couple of things around, Feedback would be appreciated!
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899634#Comment_3899634
we can agree to disagree, but if youre the one saying so then its my suggestion that should be actually implemented in the game since its the one that can stay backed up
Well my suggestion is a mere suggestion. It does not affect how Wesker currently feels in-game and is all up to BHVR's live balance / design team to decide on it.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899627#Comment_3899627
I actually 1v1d a pretty good wesker player while playing wesker myself and since they're good at wesker you'd expect them to be good going against them, but just by going for vaults i was able to get chase times on par or even better than trying to go for skillful plays. Assuming you're a decent wesker player which i assume you are based on your commitment to them I don't see why you want less skillful parts of his power to be made better, and again even if this isn't a problem currently I don't know why you'd want it to then start becoming a problem by buffing it
I think we can agree to disagree on this one.
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@lettuchia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899625#Comment_3899625
I found it very noticeable and have found the current vault cooldown able to consistently get hits at structures like shack and even at fillers less consistently through 1v1s, even if it wasn't already the case there'd be no reason to say it's currently too slow unless you wanted it to be easier to get cheesy hits like this
I promise you that your chase times would quintuple against decent to good survivors if you only went for power vaults as Wesker.
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@lettuchia said:
I really dislike the vault cooldown buff since it's already way too easy to catch up to survivors after vaulting. Some other changes I have minor gripes with but overall good suggestions, the shorter cooldowns and recharge in particular should absolutely be implemented
Thanks for the constructive feedback! Honestly speaking, the vault cooldown reduction that 2v8 offered wasn't that noticeable and my proposed change would effectively be half of it. Alongside this, I think the current vault cooldown is too slow and is in no way shape or form effective enough for catching up to survivors on short and/or mid-length loops.
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Made additional changes! Once again, feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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I changed a couple of things around (the Edit part at the very bottom goes in details) after seeing how Wesker played in 2v8. Would be great to have more feedback on this!
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881256#Comment_3881256
no i don't see anyone ignore it. in fact there is currently a new buff with his iri add-on that makes everyone start critically infected. I am really looking forward to playing 2vs8 wesker. I am going to be so sad when 2vs8 leaves because i wish wesker had those changes in the base game.
he is going to be like the most fun killer to play.
Iri Vial is bugged it's not meant to instantly give max infection to survivors
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881401#Comment_3881401
But unless im missing something in your inputs, i dont see a way for having everyone infected? If you pick Uro Vial they just go search for the sprays and once you start the chase with someone 3 of them are already cleansed.
Edit: Nvm i though you mean everyone critically infected at the start of the trial, which is impossible with the Uro Vial. But still, my point stands, is good of course but the exposed is also something that makes you want to cleanse it fast. And again its only active on critical infection which you are not going to see much anyways in the game so i dont understand the nerf.
Going by your logic, nerfing Critical Infection and removing the effect given by Iri Vial related to it wouldn't be that big of a deal since you rarely ever see it. And mind you, you can still instadown critically infected survivors with your power so I don't see how this would be a heavy detriment if you play Wesker like an M2 killer given the other buffs I listed.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3881256#Comment_3881256
I agree on that the critical infection is not as strong as it was. However, having 4% hindered is much better than a tiny 0.5 seconds cd reduction.
Keep in mind that doesnt matter if its 0.5 per each survivor, as you are never going to see 2 or more survivors at critical infection anyways. At least with old Hindered you have a chance to get one survivor if he decides to not cleanse.
You just did pick something that is not a problem (the critical infection) anymore and just deleted it completely without reason.
Also another non-sensical nerf on the iri Uroboros Vial… At least reduce the addon rarity to green or something.
if you have one critically infected survivor with another infected survivor you'd have an 8 sec total recharge for your power which would be decently strong in and of itself on top of all the other buffs I gave to Virulent Bound which would also be way better than what is currently needed with current Wesker by either having 3 survivors infected or 2 survivors infected + Leather Gloves (8.28 sec total recharge).
Also, having 4 survivors infected at the start of a trial is already a HUGE effect. I don't see how that effect on its own wouldn't be worth a purple at the very least.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
why is his infection needing to be weaker? it is already niche to get critical infection for survivors to get critically infected. i do not agree with these nerf's. bad changes.
A simple tweak to make him stronger is reduce charge time to charge virulent bound from 1.5 second to 0.8 seconds. they are buffing wesker in 2vs8 mode with a similar change.
On a side note, a shorter wind up would be a heavily risky change since it would not only do over muscle memory for Wesker players but also mess up timing for when a survivor needs to react to his 1st Bound and potentially make Virulent Bound more annoying to verse ESPECIALLY at anim locks.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
why is his infection needing to be weaker? it is already niche to get critical infection for survivors to get critically infected. i do not agree with these nerf's. bad changes.
A simple tweak to make him stronger is reduce charge time to charge virulent bound from 1.5 second to 0.8 seconds. they are buffing wesker in 2vs8 mode with a similar change.
@albertoplus said:
[REMOVAL]Critical Infectionno longer grants theHinderedstatus effect to survivors.[NEW]Each survivor reaching
Critical Infectiongrants The Mastermind an additional 0.5 second reduction toVirulent Boundrecharge on top of the initial 0.5 second reduction for normally infecting a survivor.Thats an extremely hard nerf. Most of the games i never see one single survivor in Critical Infection.
Critical Infection is currently nowhere near as strong as it used to be before the hinder nerf against average to good players, which, mind you, is mainly why you might see some people completely ignore cleansing their infection in some scenarios. So, this infection change is more of a sidegrade aimed towards, as I previously said, giving Wesker players more room to use their power by granting them an extra recharge reduction if the survivors decide to avoid their side objective WHILE also making it so the only way to gain value out of it is by using your power (4% Hindered removal means less free M1s and Exposed removal on Iri Vial means you need to use your power to instadown no matter what Add-Ons you have equipped).