ThatDidact
ThatDidact
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- ThatDidact
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@weirdkid5 said:
This is what I would do, stop lunging in open territory and just follow them. If they don't try to 360 you you're good, but always assume everyone is gonna 360.With this in mind, if you see them go to turn, simply stop and walk backwards and face the direction they spun in. On PC this is also how you deal with good 360 users, because the auto hit isn't enough sometimes to hit 360 users if they flick hard enough
What I mentioned in my original post still applies. I don't have to swing for them to 360 me. All they have to do is have a seizure when I get close and they vanish off my screen before I can do anything. 90% of the time I can't tell which direction they went either.
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DBD wasn't designed with survivor communication in mind. By playing SWF you're essentially cheating. If a killer doesn't want to deal with that bs, that's their prerogative. If you want to gain an unfair advantage in the game, you can put up with longer queue times.
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@KingB said:
Moving the left stick whichever direction they turn helps. It's still about a 50/50 though. I've yet to see a foolproof tip to counter it.I'll try, but to be honest they vanish off my screen before I can even tell which direction they're turning.
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How exactly is running Sloppy Butcher on the Wraith an "exploit"?
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According to...?
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@AlexAnarchy said:
people who say the legion is fine as it is are obviously survivors mains wearing trapper masks and saying OH BTW KILLER MAIN~No one can actually in any realistic ideal state the legion is fine as it is when legion is making Freddy's tier go up 1.
I'm not saying Legion is competitively viable, just that they're fun both to play as and against at lower ranks.
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I'd definitely either go with the Hillbilly or the Hag. Both are pretty strong and have great perks. Specifically Enduring on the Billy and Ruin on the Hag. Billy takes a bit of practice to use his chainsaw properly to down survivors, but when it works, it's lethal. He can also use the chainsaw sprint for great map pressure. The Hag, similarly, has great map pressure. You can set traps to defend key locations and teleport to them in a pinch, or place them down mid-chase to cut a loop short.
Other miscellaneous perks you would want to run could be Sloppy Butcher, which is easy to get and helps to slow the game down a bit. No One Escapes Death is pretty toxic and will get survivors to yell at you, but it'll come in clutch if you're struggling to secure those kills. Brutal Strength is a great quality of life perk you can get off the Trapper too.
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@sorrowen said:
@ThatDidact said:
You're right, but to be honest I much prefer Legion being unviable than busted. If balanced incorrectly they'd simply be uncounterable.I think Legion can be very strong but with a much higher skill cap like Spirit/nurse but Legion shouldn't be trash tier like this its so sad
I feel like you'd need to do some serious tweaking to their power for it to have a high skill cap. It's basically a "chase better" button right now, with only the severe drawbacks from Deep Wound keeping them from being top-tier.
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You're right, but to be honest I much prefer Legion being unviable than busted. If balanced incorrectly they'd simply be uncounterable.
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@Raptorrotas said:
I think you're misinterpreting "competitive"http://changingminds.org/disciplines/game_design/types_game/games_competitive.htm
As long there are multiple factions competing for a win it is a competitive game, be it uno, uch, dbd, fortnite, any team sport, or rock paper scissors.
This may come as a bit of a shock to you, but words can have multiple definitions. In this context, we are referring to competitive as a classification between casual and competitive games (as in games that are played for fun or professionally). This is distinct from the simple classification acknowledging the existence of competition, which your link refers to. Not what we're talking about in this thread.
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@Raptorrotas said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".
If the only requirement for a game to be considered "competitive" is that people can lose, than every single multiplayer game is competitive. Do you consider Uno to be a competitive game? How about Ultimate Chicken Horse? The point Brady was trying to make is that there are more people playing the game than people who sweat hard, memorize loops, run meta perks, etc., and the devs do and should acknowledge that.
How can you consider UNO and UCH noncompetetive? Especially a friendship stresser like uno.
Because they're designed to be party games between friends, not to be played at tournaments for cash prizes. Uno in particular relies on a crazy amount of randomness, which isn't optimal for demonstrations of skill, the hallmark of competitive games.
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@Orion said:
They go back to the campfire.How do we know this?
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@Wolf74 said:
@Brady said:
@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.This IS NOT a strictly competitive based game, and the devs have made that so-clear.
There are 2 sides, one solo versus a team.
Both played by and against actual humans (aka PVP).
How can that be "non competitive"?
This is no coop game. Someone needs to lose for the other to win.
Even in the "balanced" game with 2 dead/2 escape, the dead "lost".If the only requirement for a game to be considered "competitive" is that people can lose, then every single multiplayer game is competitive. Do you consider Uno to be a competitive game? How about Ultimate Chicken Horse? The point Brady was trying to make is that there are more people playing the game than people who sweat hard, memorize loops, run meta perks, etc., and the devs do and should acknowledge that.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
I didn't. The only one participating in that debate is you.
YOU said that it does not need skill to down someone and any non-brain-dead killer could do that.
Stick to your word or just say sorry and rephrase it.
You can't come here tell every killer to be skillless jerks and expect that the player just accept that general insult.Jesus Christ, I'm not telling anyone to do anything or insulting killers. The point I'm trying to make with this post isn't that killers suck, it's that there's an issue with balance against survivors in lower ranks that enables killers to do well without putting much effort into it. Once again, I'm a killer main. I have first-hand experience here. Before I reached about rank 9, I could casually waltz around the map and M1 survivors, not really paying much attention to what I was doing, and expect to 3k or 4k every time. That's a problem. I should not be able to do that well with the amount of effort and skill I was putting in. That's what this discussion is about.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
If you don't want that debate, don't start it.
I didn't. The only one participating in that debate is you.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Wolf74 said:
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
So you did not say that?
Wait… let me see…@ThatDidact said:
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. .... Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers.Exactly. That's exactly what I said. I don't understand why you're trying to derail the conversation by making it seem that I'm saying all killers are bad at the game. I'm a killer main. I'm just talking about game balance at low ranks.
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@Wolf74 said:
@ThatDidact said:
@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. Survivors become overpowered because of coordination and teamwork compounding their own skill. That's what they rely on in high ranks. Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers. My inspiration for starting this topic was a match I had where a Huntress 4-manned me and some randoms without throwing a single hatchet and facecamping the entire time.
So, any arguments beside "all killer are skillless grunts"?
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that killers don't have to be good in order to beat survivors in low ranks with little effort.
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@Zarathos said:
ThatDidact said:@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.
I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.
You mean what happened with league, hearthstone and halo. Oh wait that didnt happen because heres the thing a game can balance itself without effecting lower ranked players. Low ranked killers will still bump into terrain chase badly and get juked easily. Lower ranked survivours can and will take advantage of that.
People tend to forget that killers as well as survivours play like crap at low ranks too.
People tend to forget that because the base stats of the killer more than compensate for it. It doesn't take much skill to chase down and whack someone a couple of times when you move significantly faster than them. Survivors become overpowered because of coordination and teamwork compounding their own skill. That's what they rely on in high ranks. Lower skilled survivors are also uncoordinated, which leaves them sitting ducks for all but the most brain-dead killers. My inspiration for starting this topic was a match I had where a Huntress 4-manned me and some randoms without throwing a single hatchet and facecamping the entire time.
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As much as I agree with the sentiment that we should be able to directly experience the cosmetics we buy with our own money as much as possible, messing with the camera is too fundamental to the game's balance to justify the change.
As for adding an alternate mode, I feel that this would do little more than split up the playerbase. I actually brought up the idea of adding alternate modes in another discussion, but I think the differences between it and the base mode would have to be significant enough and interesting enough to justify splitting the queues.
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@only1biggs said:
OP - Just play some "meme builds" and not care about the game too much, and you'll de-pip naturally, while having fun. Perma Tier 1 myers, Fat Myers, No Blink Nurse etc etc...But yes, the rank system is flawed.
Thanks man, I'll try to do that.
Just might be a little problematic because I don't have a lot of perks. -
@se05239 said:
The developers have proved with Freddy that they're basing their balance on low-mid ranks.
That's why they're making Legion, a killer which survivors should find fun facing as he can attack and injure survivors but won't be a danger as he cannot down survivors without extreme time investment.The Legion is weak at all levels, especially high ranks. If that's supposed to be the response to the problem, people just aren't going to play Legion.
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Cool concept, but
- It would be hard to make her look visually distinct from the Hag.
- Her power is very similar to the Spirit's.
- The perks are pretty underpowered.
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@Wolf74 said:
The problem is that the Devs try to balance the game somewhere in the middle.
Trying to ease it on the low ranks and in the same process make it worse for the high ranks.
While low rank survivor get it slightly better, the high rank killer get it much worse.
Competitive Pvp games need to get balanced top down. That's how EVERY other game is doing it. I do no other game beside Dbd that is doing it otherwise.I just don't see that being viable unless you want to drive out casual survivors from the game entirely. If you balance DBD around the highest level of play, killers are going to be buffed/reworked across the board. That's going to turn the lower ranks into an absolute slaughterhouse for survivors who aren't sweating in a SWF group. I haven't been playing this game for a very long time, and I'm not an amazing killer, but I was casually 4-manning in all of my matches until I reached the tryhards. I just think that even without any of your proposed changes, killers are just too strong against lower-skilled survivors.