Tempest753
Tempest753
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- Tempest753
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I agree, and it's sad because I'm not really sure what excuse BHVR has at this point. They have the money to hire devs to fix this stuff, god knows they should be making plenty of money considering the aggressive pricing of DLCs, cosmetics, etc.
And yet:
-Spirit, Hag, Twins, and Slinger haven't received any changes despite almost every survivor hating them.
-Keys are still grossly overpowered.
-9/10 perks in this game are garbage filler, and the perk grind is outrageous thanks to perk tiers.
-Every patch results in a plethora of game-breaking bugs.
-Devs don't listen to community feedback regarding map designs, such as everyone hating breakable walls and indoor maps.
-Generators get completed so fast that killers feel dependent on at least one of either Pop or Ruin to win, both of which are gated behind DLC.
-Camping and tunneling have never been addressed except with perks.
-Generators are still stupid boring to work on for survivors.
This game is hard-carried by it's excellent core concept. BHVR seems to have no sense of priorities, and from an outside perspective the gameplay/balance devs just frankly seem either lazy, incompetent, and/or are criminally understaffed. BHVR claims 300 people work on this game, so when can we get some support for the issues people have been complaining about for literally years?
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@Murph said:
The grind is insane. Even though it gets worse and worse every chapter, bloodwebs and the insurmountable grind of DBD hasn't been changed in years
There's 84 killer perks and 95 survivor perks. If you want every perk on a character you'll spend dozens of hours of gametime grinding for hundreds of bloodwebs (after already going through 150 bloodwebs to get to p350).
I think the biggest issue with the grind is that it's artificially inflated 3x by perk levels. The grind to level 40 isn't all that bad, prestige's existence can be ignored, but shelling out millions and millions for the rng chance of getting perks you want until you finally have them all is just plain stupid. Removing perk levels would cut down on the grind SO MUCH and there's already not much reason for them to exist. Imagine if DBD released with all of its content today instead of 2016. It's easy to say the grind's not that bad when you have three thousand hours and have played for years but for new players and players who have been gone for more than three month's it's just plain stupid.
Perks need way more attention than they're currently getting.
Perk tiers make grinding for perks insufferable once you've unlocked lots of teachables, and it's magnified by the fact that most perks are total garbage. Perk tiers need to be removed, and some of the many garbage perks need either total reworks or sizeable buffs.
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@Yatol said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263618#Comment_2263618
Having matchmaking will allow to make it easier to balance the game, especially since devs use statistics. They are not going to just slap MMR and say "okay mission accomplished, no more balance needed". currently games often end in stomps due to the skill range between killer and survivor.
I absolutely hope you're right, but I have 0 faith in BHVR to do this in a timely fashion. I predict this game to be thoroughly miserable for killers for months or years after MMR gets implemented. I honest to god hope I'm wrong, and BHVR can frame this quote if they rebalance this game to fit MMR and do it well.
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@SkeletalElite said:
This perk does absolutely nothing to even an average survivor.
For a good survivor, this perk literally helps them do gens faster.
There's a tome challenge where I have to use this perk and I'd quite literally rather have an empty perk slot over it.
The only time this perk has any use is if a doctor uses it and stacks it with lullaby and no one likes playing against that ######### anyways so please, just completely redesign this perk
You could literally swap "Unnerving Presence" with like 75% or more of the perks in this game and I'd probably agree with you lmao.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263585#Comment_2263585
Only because the Survivors got greedy, supposedly. I haven't watched the video yet though.
Basically the end of the game is the survivors 99'ing the doors while one person goes to save the hooked person, that person gets downed before the unhook, repeat until Coconut manages to get a 4 man slug with a 99'd gate, all off the back of a single hook. It ends in a 4k, but if the survivors just abandoned the hooked survivor and left it was a 1 hook, 1 kill game. Not the least bit interesting or fun until the survivors kinda threw, and even then I bet it wasn't all that gratifying a win.
@Yatol said:
If this is a top 1% player, I honestly fail to this has a problem, that means the system is working. Not to mention the he manages to turn the game around
The system is absolutely working, and that's the problem. This game has been inadvertently balanced around the average lobby having 1-2 weaker survivors for the killer to prey on, and now that that's no longer the case the whole system is bound to fall apart without changes to address this. As much as it sucks to say, creating well-balanced lobbies in terms of player skill will kill this game in its current state of balance.
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@TragicSolitude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263541#Comment_2263541
That sounds less like a matchmaking problem and more like an RNG/map/balance problem. If/when skill-based matchmaking works correctly and goes live, it should hopefully give the devs the ability to pinpoint problems with balance in the game. Right now, it's really difficult to balance survivors and killers because there are so many factors, and the [BAD WORD] matchmaking overshadows them all. New players being stomped by experienced players is the expected outcome, there's nothing to learn from that, and attempting to balance the game around it would absolutely break it. Hopefully skill-based matchmaking will actually go live and BHVR will then be able to make balance changes that improve everyone's overall experience.
I wish I shared your optimism, but frankly nothing about this game's history suggests that BHVR is capable/willing to address balance issues in a timely fashion. We're talking about a game where one killer can throw bottles to make survivors move a little slower while another killer can literally teleport through walls. If they implement MMR in its current state, or something close to it, by the time they actually get around to addressing these balance issues the game will be long dead.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263294#Comment_2263294
They'd have to rebalance how Survivors do their objectives. They keep disabling MMR which prevents us from forcing the devs to acknowledge the issue.
The main issue is how 3 Survivors on 3 gens is the most optimal way to genrush. Something needs to change, either with more steps, more objectives, something. Because you will DEFINITELY need to be playing Nurse or Spirit at high MMR, and be ready to deal with tournament teams.
This is my feeling exactly; generators can be completed way too quickly in relation to the average chase time when the survivors are good and can efficiently use the resources on the map. Without making chases totally unfair for survivors (cough cough Nurse and Spirit) the only way to address this is to slow down gens, and that sucks because absolutely no one likes sitting on a generator holding M1. It's stupid boring.
If MMR is going to be implemented similar to how it was in this test then this needs to be addressed, because 4 minute games where generators get pushed out lightning quick and the killer has to average like 20 seconds per chase to have a shot sounds like awful gameplay.
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@TragicSolitude said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say if the killer does extremely poorly, then MMR put him against survivors above his skill level, either because the queues were too long and forced unbalanced matches or because the stats available to correctly determine MMR for the players hadn't been collected yet.
The MMR test BHVR just did was a test. BHVR may be looking for feedback from the test, or maybe this was all about data collection and has nothing to do with the quality of the matches we had but BHVR told us about the test in the spirit of transparency so players didn't feel betrayed.
I want a working skill-based matchmaking system in this game because I think new players get especially screwed right now. I'm not great at the game, but I have a lot of hours. I get bad matches all the time. Would I prefer fun and challenging matches that aren't one side steamrolling the other? Yes. But having a lot of hours means I at least understand what's going on. Newbies don't have that, they just have a miserable time. Skill-based matchmaking needs to happen if this game wants to keep new players.
And the whole point of skill-based matchmaking is that it collects data and tries to put players against other players of the same skill. If someone repeatedly has bad games, they're obviously not where they need to be and their rank will adjust. Someone's MMR is not immediately chosen and then permanent for the rest of eternity.
I agree 100%, I don't want anyone to have a bad time because the current matchmaking system is pitting players with vastly different skill levels together.
But regarding this video being a case of the survivors outmatching the killer, that's just really not the case. The survivors were good, and the killer player is one of the best Huntress players out there. At the end of the day some loops are just time-consuming no matter how good you are, and getting hits at some loops requires prediction. In this game in question, he tried to make a few low-risk predictions, didn't get them, and those are the only opportunities he got because the game ended in 4 minutes.
You can nitpick some of his plays here or there, but are we really saying 1-2 true mistakes (i.e. not missed predictions) is or should be the difference between a competitive/fun 8 hook game, and
1 hook game? That's ludicrous imo. -
@[Deleted User] said:
Well apart from the guy whiffing significantly on the first chase wasting a lot of time, not having gen slowdown perks, being cheeky with predictions that cost him, trying for a hatchet when he had a Lunge, and both getting screwed and booned with the hatchet hitboxes, this seems like a normal high-skill match, including the over-altruism survivors normally show during the EGC.
I can sense the sarcasm, but this is quite literally a high-MMR killer against high-MMR survivors. He made a few mistakes early, but he isn't a newbie killer by any stretch. He's using mindgames where possible, finding survivors quickly, and making good throws that get dodged by good predictions from the survivors (mostly, there's a mistake here and there, but is the guy supposed to literally play perfectly?). The result is a 4 minute game with 1 hook, or at least that's what it should be if the survivors just left when they had the chance.
If I read your sarcasm right, MMR is fine, I just need to always bring the best most meta perks and add-ons, never make a single mistake, never predict wrong, and maybe I'll be able to manage more than 1 kill every so often, as long as I always pick a top tier killer and also random onto a decent killer map? Sounds great and also very fun 😀
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If I understand what you're saying you're saying improve base gen regression speed, keep Ruin's power level identical to where it is now and lower the instant regression from Pop to something like 15% or whatever?
I completely agree. A lot would need to be done to find the right numbers, but I think this would be a step in the right direction for the game so it's not Pop/Ruin or bust when making a killer build.
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@Sypherpathic said:
Your post confuses me. You're saying that someone as killer, who is a great player with the killer of choice, on a map that feels advantageous to this killer, lost. So should the MMR not let these survivors play? Are you supposing they should have gone against a higher level killer?
Ultimately, at the bleeding edge, there will be outliers where there are just groups of survivors who can beat a single killer. Likewise, I'm sure there are times where a group is completely stymied by a superlative killer.
None of this, to me, should reflect on the MMR system being tried at the time? How would there have been better results with the 'normal' rank matching system? The killer would have gotten an easier team but this team of survivors would have just waited forever because they can beat even a top-tier killer?
Confusing.
So once you reach a certain skill level as killer you're just doomed to face a constant barrage of unenjoyable matches where survivors push out 5 generators in 4 minutes?
When did I ever say MMR should not let these survivors play, that's you jumping to a conclusion. If there was a more skilled killer for these survivors to face, they probably would have faced them. We're talking about a killer who has thousands of hours and is waaaaay better than average; how much better a killer can these survivors realistically face?
I 100% agree that the current matchmaking is way too relaxed... but this isn't the solution, or at least not the totality of it. This video just serves as evidence of how unrealistically difficult this game is for killers at the top level.
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@fogdonkey said:
And the point is?
The point is that DBD isn't a game that benefits from a hyper-accurate skill-based matchmaking because it has terrible balance.
This game has been balanced under a paradigm of incredibly inaccurate matchmaking where you can queue into a red-rank lobby and 3/4 of the survivors are barely competent at looping. If you're very likely to face 4 great loopers in every match above a certain MMR, the game basically needs a total overhaul in balancing.
@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2263316#Comment_2263316
"My favorite content creator lost. Therefore, the game is broken."
Not once did I say he's my favorite content creator, I know of him and happened upon this video on youtube. Actually watch the video and tell me you would have fun playing this game if you were averaging 1-3 hooks in what should have been a <5 minute match.
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@tolore said:
remove DC penalty is a little bit of a silly suggestion, that ruins the game for several people who did want to play on that map, or would rather have played on that map than waiting in queue again. If you REALLY wanted to live in a world where you never have to play an indoor map, an option that puts you in an outdoor map only queue is much more reasonable.
To be clear I'm not really being serious regarding that point, I know they'll never remove the DC penalty for indoor maps.
But holy $%&^ do I wish they would.
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I think Wraith feels great to play and doesn't seem too oppresive considering what the current top-tier killers look like.
I think if Wraith need a little dialing back it should be in the form of dialing back his post-decloak speed-burst/lunge a little bit, or raising the distance he can be seen while cloaked to let you run a little earlier. But if he went unchanged I don't think I'd lose too much sleep over it.
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Honestly, agreed. I think killers like Oni and old Billy are examples of harder killers that give you a good payoff once you master them. Nurse just takes that concept waaaay too far, to the point that playing against a super skilled Nurse in anything but a 3 or 4-man swf with meta perks is just a pointless endeavor. I'm honestly not sure how you balance a killer that can literally teleport through windows, walls, and pallets and at the end of the day master Nurses are few and far between, but when you play against one it's almost always a miserable experience.
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@Sluzzy said:
I've seen these enough and they need serious nerfing. Either that or survivors need major buffs. I got out of a match against a Blight and I've never felt so cheated in games of all my life. First of all, I spawned with a Nea and we almost finished a gen but the Blight was given a "free" beacon that it was almost done so he shows up without any warning whatsoever. After a short tussle with the Nea she goes down away from the gen. Because of crutchy ruin, it lost almost half of our progress. In the meantime, the Blight uses his free aura read to chase another person off a gen and left her on the floor when he got the signal I almost had the first gen completed again so what does he do? With one on a hook, the other on the floor, he sprints across the map to get me off the "first" gen that should have been done a long time ago. I go down and hooked and both gens lost all progress. Because of perks two gens were lost. How is that even remotely fair?
By the way, the cycle continued and everyone is dead with 5 gens still up. A look at his perks shows BBQ, Ruin, Undying, Tinkerer.
I am sorry killers, if you win with this combo you didn't win because of skill whatsoever. No matter how good the survivors are and how hard they try to do the objective, you are using 4 crutch perks for a free win. You are carried because of perks. Every rank 1 blight is winning with this combo non-stop and the devs need to stop sleeping and look at this combo and how much killers are winning with it. It has to be astronomical.
BBQ and Tinkerer needs to be a one-time use perk like survivor perks. These perks are way too game changing to be used all the time. Put it on a 120 second cooldown. Something to make them fair.
I'm with you up until the point of BBQ+Tinkerer being the problem. The problem is Ruin+Undying, if you pair BBQ+Tinkerer with Pop it's not nearly so miserable, and if you cleanse Ruin+Undying these two perks don't really do much of anything to delay the game.
The problem is that Ruin needs to be a certain level of power to justify being a Hex perk, but if its effect is strong enough to warrant running alone then it becomes oppressive when paired with Undying. In general I think Ruin needs to be weakened a little and totems need to stop spawning in places where they're guaranteed to be spotted and cleansed instantly (like spawning on top of survivors at the start, spawning on top of hills, spawning 2 feet from a generator), but that's just me.
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@Mandy said:
Whilst I appreciate the feedback, I have to say...I'm sad we're at the stage where we judge the strength of something by whether or not there's a 4k involved. 4k is supposed to be rare and 2/3k's the normal.
How is it saddening or surprising that 4k is considered the standard for a win as killer when the implicit goal of killer is to kill all survivors? If the actual win-condition of killer is to kill some survivors then the game doesn't really reflect that idea very well, particularly in red ranks where you're basically guaranteed to lose a pip any time you get less than 3 kills and probably only gain a pip if you get all 4.