RossSama
RossSama
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@Junylar said:
The game balance goes like this:
- Good Nurse/Spirit stomps any survivors.
- Decent SWF stomp ANY other killer.
- A decent killer stomps any solo survivors.
- Decent solo survivors stomp potato killers.
- Potato killers stomp potato survivors.
You are in the last term right now, still being a potato. If you find friends and start playing with them using discord, you will break the game balance in every possible way and win one game after another, except those rare occasions when you get matched against a good Nurse or Spirit. People complaining about the game being someone-sided just don't tell about the whole picture: the game is actually SWF-sided, not survivor-sided.
Absolutely dead on.
Solo queue survivor never becomes survivor-sided even at rank 1 because you still get weak teammates (who get quickly eliminated) and you're unable to communicate so any decent killer is able to leverage those things to get consistent 3k-4ks. This is not even bringing up another myriad of issues which include but are not limited to dcs, people giving up, people trolling, people running meme builds, people going out of their way for challenges, etc.
Being in a strong SWF pretty much mitigates all of these issues entirely so the game ends up being survivor-sided besides for matches played against skilled nurse/spirit players and sometimes skilled oni/hag/blight players depending on the map.
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Lol, yeah, those damn sweaty SWFs! Even though they clearly suck at the game and their builds make no ######### sense. They have one decisive and no unbreakables, one dead hard, one borrowed time.
You clearly have never played against an actually strong team, huh?
"I'm gonna play double iridescent doctor with a game map offering and then post the screenshot on the DBD forums when I inevitably win!"
Not impressive, and shows A LOT about you as a gamer and what you consider to be "impressive".
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I mean, the games usually only go so fast if you fully commit to somebody and can't down them quickly or if you camp the hook.
I played five games this morning and three of them had a 100% facecamping killer. One game was an oni on haddonfield just standing on the roof above the hook staring down at it lmao.
Of course survivors are gonna do the gens quickly and leave if you aren't occupying their time. The killer expects them to give a free 3k by unhooking sloppily and suiciding during EGC but not every team is going to be that dumb.
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If you honestly keep getting camped and tunneled into the ground, start running Object.
Object will allow you to outposition the killer constantly and set up at safe loops much more easily. You also get to annoy the ######### out of them if that's your thing.
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I'm gonna sound extremely biased here as a rank 1 pc survivor and killer, but here's my take:
The hardest games I've had as a survivor lately were when I was matched with three console players against a PC killer.
Similarly, the easiest games I've had as a killer lately were when I was matched against four console players.
There's definitely a divide in the communities that's easy to notice, at least at rank 1. I think it's because PC players have big hardware + control advantages but we have also already adapted to playing against PC killers as survivor. I think they just need more time to adapt although I know you can't just "overcome" lagging all the time, having poor FPS, latency issues, etc.
I can't speak for playing killer on console but the console killers seem to have an overall more difficult time cutting corners efficiently and aiming ranged abilities like plague spit, huntress hatchet, deathslinger gun, etc. That being said, I played against a really good rank 1 console myers a couple days ago so I know there are insane killers on console, it just seems more rare.
As for survivor, the biggest thing I notice is chase times. Console survivors seem to be extremely competent for the most part at healing, doing gens, unhooking, etc. The part where they lack is looping for extended chases, they usually go down pretty fast.
This is all just in my experience. Take it (or don't) for what you will.
edit: TL:DR: PC players seem to be a little bit better but there are a lot of factors and exceptions at play.
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These mythical sweat SWF squads with perfectly optimal survivors running full meta with object, best items/addons, offerings, etc. are extremely rare.
The way people talk about SWF on this forum, you'd think that 90% of SWFs are insanely good and sweaty when this just isn't the case. Most are casual and fairly bad at the game, they're just as easy to kill as solo queue players and make all the same mistakes.
Perhaps you should start analyzing your own gameplay and seek self-improvement. I'd be willing to bet quite a bit of money that you are making many more mistakes than you think you are.
The streamers are partly to blame, people like otz and tru3 are very quick to point their finger at perks and SWF as the culprit for their losses when they are actually just making constant mistakes in the games they lose.
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Wow, I watched some of the vod from his stream yesterday and I must say, at this point he is a total salt factory.
Like, I literally cannot believe that four thousand people are sitting there watching him get irrationally salty and angry when he is the one making constant mistakes in the games he loses. He's setting a really ######### example for the community.
Like no joke, he ######### up at loops ten times, doesn't prioritize correctly, places down bad traps that never come into play, and then at the scorescreen after losing he's like, "yup, DS, DS, DS, unbreakable, unbreakable". Like, over half of those ds/ub combos didn't even activate but he's soooo quick to point his finger at the perks like they are his sole reason for losing bahaha.
Kind of reminds me of certain people on these forums ;-)
Those survivors weren't even special btw, just your average red/purple rank solo queues. Makes it even funnier.
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Just shows you how bad people are in solo queue usually and how overblown the "second chances" arguments are. The percentage of lobbies where it's an actual super strong SWF running meta effectively would be like much less than 1% probably.
Do you know how hard it would be for me to escape 50 games in a row solo without a key as a survivor? Yet there have been people who achieved like 250+ wins using mid to low tier killers.
Killer is legitimately easy-mode just farming bots for insane bloodpoint gains compared to surv, and now with crossplay the queue times are really good on PC.
Solo surv just continues to become less and less appealing, it seems. I'm glad I enjoy playing both sides.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1570425#Comment_1570425
Nah, you act like the people who give hatch and let the killer get a kill are the same people complaining constantly, if anything it'd be the opposite. Also, I play 50/50, in what way am I biased? I didn't give a full argument before because of how big your ego was, it you wanna get insulting I'm happy to debate.
Nah, look, all I was originally saying was that the OP is making it seem as though only killers are merciful which is simply not true. I have played against a lot of bad killers and I have never bm'd them and have absolutely given them sacs. At the same time, I have also been given hatch by respectful killers.
It goes both ways.
To point the finger at one side and say, "this group of players is kind and respectful to noobs and this group is not" (which is what I got from the OP) is just being silly. People experienced in this game enough know that it goes both ways.
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@SCP_FOR_DBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1570376#Comment_1570376
There is so much wrong with what you just said that its not even worth covering it all.
I.e. your bias leads you to inherently disagree with what I'm saying but you don't actually have any argument.
Cool, probably should just not respond at all in the future.
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I'm attacking your point because you are illogically attempting to further perpetuate the circle-jerk of "killer good, survivor bad". That's the last thing we need in this community?
You want it to seem like these people are these humble, merciful gods when it's quite the opposite actually. They might give some total trashcan the hatch, but look at how they react when they run into actually good players. They start getting frustrated and complaining about second chances like every other player that loses. Otz at the score screen when he loses --> "Yup, Ds, Ds, Ds, Unbreakable, Borrowed Time". Haha, like yeah, survivors are gonna use good perks.
Not all survivors are sweaty little muppets, either though?
I'm a rank 1 survivor and killer and I have literally never done anything you mentioned against a bad killer. I do gens/bones and take the gate. End of story. Perhaps these toxic survivors just lack perspective? They probably don't play killer and understand what it's like, so you have that in common with them, I guess.
Also, saying that you feel sorry for me was irrelevant to everything and just makes you seem dumb lol.
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HAHAHAHA, what???
I have never seen a killer show mercy to one of my ######### teammates.
Literally not a single time. EVER. Tunneled and dead. Mercilessly.
Meanwhile, I am over here farming most of the games I play as plague and making friends with the survivors.
I know in your extremely biased and limited perspective, you think there's only one side to everything, but uhm... that's not how the world works.
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I farm 100% of the time with people who don't know what they are doing. As a survivor main, it's just too painful for me to slaughter new players who are trying to learn. I look at them not as enemies but as potential future teammates, and maybe by letting them live and run some laps around the map, drop some pallets, vault some windows, etc. it could effect my own experience positively when they rank up.
I've had some really funny moments with groups of four identical fengs circling me and tbagging or just yesterday I farmed with a group of players who all started rotating and jumping in and out of three lockers while I nodded and spun in circles lol
It's amazing how friendly this community can be when we are just... you know... friendly?
Also, if the survivors bring 2+ bps or cakes, I'm gonna try to farm with that. Hopefully everybody is leaving that game with 75k+ BPs.
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It essentially ruined pc solo queue red rank survivor, but okay. Yes, a true god send.
I love not being able to play survivor without suffering.
Killer however has been awesome and stress-free. Easy 4ks, BP farming, insta-queue, and the best part is that you don't have to rely on teammates to hit skill checks or cleanse totems... or do gens... or loop the killer... or anything at all!
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I make it a point to do 2-3 bones per match and my team still gets hit by noed all the time lmao
Solo queue survivor is always #########. That's just how dbd is designed. They don't let us comm with our teammates and we have to sacrifice our meta perks for information perks like small game, kindred, alert, bond, etc.
And the one game you get pissed off and make sure to check and cleanse all five totems by yourself, killer won't be running noed and you'll just be wasting a ton of your time that could've been used for gens while your team is getting beaten up lol
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@adsads123123123123 said:
Get rank 1. I rarely find console players at rank 1 while there are console players everywhere at purple and green ranks.
That's bullshit. I'm rank 1 pc and I constantly get rank 10 console players who can't hit skill checks.
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@Rydog said:
Well thank god this exact thread is on the front page twice. Here, let me paste what I wrote in the other one:
This is super cherry-picked. He's using a killer with absolutely zero mobility or map pressure, he demonstrably wastes a lot of time trying to get direct bottle hits, and he's just generally not playing at the top of his game, most likely in red ranks. Also, there's no telling what perks or items/add-ons the survivors had; they could have brought multiple BNPs for all we know.
"Gen rushing" is not a thing. Doing gens is the game's singular survivor objective, and what's shown here is survivors being highly efficient while the killer is not. Some people here act like this is how a game typically goes, as if this type of play is the norm and not the aberrant outlier that it is.
Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. It's not useful or case-proving for anything, ever. I'm sure I could almost certainly find or engineer a single match to prove any point I want, too. Show me a stream of a full day's worth of highly efficient killer play where all the gens consistently get done this quickly, and where every single survivor squad is the freaking A-Team, and I'll believe you.
By far the best post in this thread so far.
Sad to see that people are using this as fuel for their own obvious bias.
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@Irisora said:
Sure let's nerfs all killers, make them all boring and forget about the asymetrical tag..
First she isn't one of the most used killers, the most seeing killers in matches are billy, nurse, huntress and trapper.
And second not every aspect of the game needs to be balanced, there must be things that favor survivor and killers to make the game fun. And the limit is, not making them unstopable.
The spirit is far of being broken unless she have father glasses, but it's and ultra-rare. But besides that she's a normal killer, i can't remember the last time i was caught in a gen by a spirit with player beads, probably less than 5 in 1500 hours of playing dbd. There are several ways you can avoid that like, comunicating with your friends to tell if shes doing the phase, see the grass moving, tap gens, and even perks like spine-chill or premonition if you need them.
Then to lose her if you are injured and shes doing the phase, you can use iron-will and walk in grass to conceal blood. If you don't have iron-will you can try to block her way to you by vaulting a window or dropping a pallet.
And for last... if a spirit mind-game you, sorry but she outplayed you and you just fell to a very easy trick.
Sorry, but basically every single thing you wrote was wrong.
1) Skilled spirits run stridor to hard-counter iron will (which ironically is her only counter)
2) Spirits can hear you moving in grass during phase
3) The grass or corn doesn't move when spirit is phasing through it
4) Last but not least, the last four games I played in a row at red ranks were against a spirit. Yesterday, half of my games were against spirit. 17 killers in the game yet roughly 60-70% of my games are against spirits.
I know, I know. Killer weak. As long as a few underpowered killers exist (which can still 4k at high ranks if played properly), spirit is allowed to rampage in 3/4ths of my games with a 95% 4K rate, the other 5% being when somebody gets hatch at a 3K. You got me.
The real question here is: Why do you so badly feel the need to defend the current state of spirit in the game? At the very least, her add-ons need a serious review. I'm not only talking about beads here, beads obviously need to be deleted from the game or completely reworked. I think even most spirit mains would agree with me on that one.
I love how one of your counters listed was "tell your friends". So... what about people like me who only solo queue? Guess I'll just die.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Actually yikes why am I even responding to you, I should've looked at your first post in this thread. You can have the opinion that Nurse's basekit needs tweaked, that's fine. Basically calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot though? Acting self-righteous about it? I'm out.
Still fair enough on the whole Tru3 thing, I'm just tired of his fanbase because a lot of them seem to have the same thing going on as you do. "I'm the logical one! Only I'm right! You're wrong! Listen to me!"
One last thing since I'm done with this thread: The only thing I could see being tweaked would be a longer fatigue on missed blink attacks. Anything else would be too much IMO. Take care and peace people.
Why would you respond to a post that you didn't read? You knee-jerked and called me a "tru3ther", which I assume is a derogatory term for somebody who is a fan and/or follower of Tru3Ta1ent. Not only did you randomly try to belittle me out of nowhere just for trying to provide proof but you also simultaneously insulted every single person who actually IS a fan and/or follower of him.
I also never called anybody an idiot. I said that it baffled me because it's quite clear that Nurse is extremely powerful even without her unlocks. Also, as somebody who has played at red ranks consistently, it's straight up disingenuous to claim that any killer in the game can reach rank 1 without perks or add-ons, at least anywhere near the ease that you could achieve it with Nurse (or Spirit maybe).
Go ahead and be my guest, try to do it with Wraith. Even with an optimal load-out, Wraith can be looped for five gens by skilled survivors who know how to infinite and manage pallets properly. This won't happen against an experienced Nurse.
*p.s. buff Wraith please
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731549#Comment_731549
Yeah...no.
I asked for proof.
Not anecdotal evidence
What I posted wasn't anecdotal though so not sure why this matters. I posted a video of a dude reaching rank 1 with base kit Nurse, no add-ons or perks. If this isn't proof that would support Megs argument, then what is? Like what exactly are you looking for in order to believe that she's ridiculously powerful without unlocks? You just want to believe what you want to believe, which is fine. But don't ask for proof, receive a great source of it, and then claim that it "failed". That's just... not how you debate something.
Care to explain how that series fails to prove the point in question? Do you even have an argument?
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@[Deleted User] said:
Actually yikes why am I even responding to you, I should've looked at your first post in this thread. You can have the opinion that Nurse's basekit needs tweaked, that's fine. Basically calling everyone who disagrees with you an idiot though? Acting self-righteous about it? I'm out.
Still fair enough on the whole Tru3 thing, I'm just tired of his fanbase because a lot of them seem to have the same thing going on as you do. "I'm the logical one! Only I'm right! You're wrong! Listen to me!"
One last thing since I'm done with this thread: The only thing I could see being tweaked would be a longer fatigue on missed blink attacks. Anything else would be too much IMO. Take care and peace people.
My first post in the thread was the one you initially responded to where you claimed that I'm a "tru3ther", which I assume is some type of derogatory term for somebody who is a fan and/or follower of Tru3Ta1ent. So... you did look at my first post because.. you responded to it...
You're all over the place. I'm straight up confused now. You must be mistaking me for somebody else who posted before me or something. I only made that post because Weck was demanding proof of base Nurse being extremely powerful which I felt like I provided by linking a video of an add-on/perkless Nurse reaching rank 1. Apparently this isn't good enough proof of her base kit being very strong though so what else can be said about it? People are just going to believe what they want to believe, and that's fine.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/731042#Comment_731042
Oh god you're one of those people. A Tru3ther.
Any killer can reach red ranks without perks/add-ons. Not every killer can face a "gen-rush" red rank SWF team. Even a Nurse can fail if they make any mistakes whatsoever.
We'll see what the basekit changes are. If they make her unreliable at red ranks and harder on console, Spirit it is then. Red rank SWF shouldn't feel complacent.
Uhhhhh.... you mean, the guy asked for anecdotal evidence so I typed "no add-ons nurse" into youtube and it was one of the first results? What are you even talking about, my dude? I have literally never watched his stream once nor do I care about him at all. That assumption by you was completely illogical.
Posting a single youtube video of a certain streamer to provide requested proof =/= being a fan and/or follower of said streamer. Is this making sense to you?
Now obviously all the responses are going to be "this proved nothing" or "any killer can reach rank 1 without perks/add-ons". The "tru3th" of the matter is that you cannot argue with the blind and biased. Case in point.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/729163#Comment_729163
Proven? Where? When?
Go on, bring the proof, I'll wait
Here you go.
Tru3Ta1ent reached rank 1 killer playing exclusively Nurse with NO PERKS/ADD-ONS WHATSOEVER.
LINK to final game in the series
A bunch of the other games are on youtube for your viewing pleasure. Full red rank survivor SWFs being trashed by a Nurse with zero perks or add-ons. The fact that you can't see the reality here is... baffling, to say the absolute least.
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Who cares if somebody says something in chat after a game? I don't say ######### when I get mori'd by spirits and nurses at Rank 1. You think survivors are the only toxic members of this community or something? It goes both ways my dude. I was queueing with my Rank 16 friend last night and we were getting absolutely murdered by red rank killers. Did I complain? Give up? Nope, it just is what it is.
You should either:
1) Learn to get over it
2) Don't read chat at all (prolly the best option for you)
and while you are doing one of those things, you can also focus on improving at the game and stick it to them once you become a god.
It's funny how mentality is everything. If I were a Rank 9 killer, I'd be perfectly fine playing against opponents much better than me because it would allow me to learn the game lot faster. You aren't gonna learn that much by playing against Rank 10s. Most of those people have no map knowledge and can't loop efficiently.
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They're just bad. Most people will try to justify their failures and/or lack of understanding by blaming everything but themselves. Obviously, this is a very poor mentality for improvement which is why they all suck.
I have seen Wraiths at rank 1 wipe the floor with a team of red rank survivors. I've seen Doctors do the same thing. I've also seen Leatherfaces do the same thing. It's almost as if having a very solid base of fundamentals and mechanical skills will allow you to succeed on any killer at any rank.
Also, the complaints about instaheals are comical at this point. My last 30 games of survivor at rank 1, nobody had an instaheal or a key. Not a single person lol. And yes, we die all the ######### time because the killers are actually skilled.
People just expect 4ks to be handed to them on a silver platter because.... you know... "i'm the killer". I'm just slowly coming to the conclusion that this community is heavily killer biased. Have you guys never watched any Otzdarva videos or something? The dude regularly annihilates rank 1 SWFs with off-meta killers and builds. We're talking nearly optimal survivors being pummeled into the ground by killers and perks that are considered to be B tier at best. Meanwhile, there are dudes posting on this forum saying that toolboxes should be removed from the game and getting upvoted. O_O
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Yawn. It's you not knowing how to play. Funny how you first blame the map and then blame the killer. It's YOU.
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I fully support this movement.
Also, I've noticed survivors racing to unhook to get tokens during this event. Sometimes legitimately throwing the entire game by doing it lmao. Some of these people don't seem to realize that unsafe hooks don't give you a token too :-(
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Soooooo many disconnects. It's insane right now on survivor side, at least at high ranks. My last four games have had a DC at the start depending on who goes down first. Two of those games, there was a duo and they both DC if their buddy goes down. At least I had one killer who let us farm, I guess?
This ######### needs to be punished severely. People are mostly doing it (I think) because they know they're gonna have a bad game. Bad game = less BPs. No punishment for DCing in the form of a queue cooldown means that you might as well just go next game and try your luck there. Sucks pretty badly for survivors like me who will never DC no matter what. Always getting the short end of the stick.
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Reporting in. Just got mori'd by a spirit with 4k hours played. Apparently using an S tier killer and having 4k hours isn't enough, mori after 1st hook. We still had two people escape too, no joke. No medkits or toolboxes on my entire team as well.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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I haven't found a farmer in any of my games today. Mostly killers trying extremely hard with moris. Red ranks though.
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It's actually pretty dumb for somebody to be camping during double BP event... I mean, unless they don't need the BPs/pips/w/e.
My very first game of the double BP event was some horrible Leatherface facecamping one of my teammates while the rest of us farmed. Felt so bad for the guy who got camped. We tried our best to unhook too. End of game comes and what a surprise, killer only got ~10k BPs lmao
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Depends on what circumstances you're talking about. If you're just generalizing, I would completely disagree. If you're talking experienced SWF groups, it's possible.
Survivors seem to only be favored in situations where they:
1) Have a lot of experience/map knowledge. Having poor map knowledge as a killer is significantly less impactful than as a survivor.
2) Have decent to strong/meta perk load-out which requires a high amount of BPs to get going (leveling several characters to 30/35/40)
3) Are able to actually communicate during the game via voice chat due to being SWF
I've played a decent amount of solo survivor and there seems to be this spot around higher purple ranks like rank 5-6 where you start running into experienced players using strong killers with optimal load-outs and you will quite regularly get your ######### pushed in. I'm talking like, less than 20% escape rate because you know... you can't actually communicate with your team at all really in solo queue and the survivors usually aren't skilled enough to loop an experienced killer long enough to get gens done. This has a massive impact on your team's success as a survivor and obviously cannot affect the killer as they are always solo.
Keep in mind that BHVR has already stated that the goal is a 50% escape rate for survivors. I'm not sure how they factor SWF versus public matching into this but this probably means that solo survival rate is much lower than that to compensate for a potentially higher SWF survival rate.
My killer games are a lot more fun and relaxed than my solo survivor games where it's this constant struggle to unhook, heal, repair gens, cleanse hex totems, etc. whilst dealing with zero communication and little to no information (depending on which perks you and your team chose).
TL;DR: In my opinion, the game only favors survivors who are experienced and SWFing.
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Funny you mention this! I just played against two killers who DC'd when we got to one gen left and still had four survivors up. It needs to be punished severely for either side.
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Sorry to break it to you, but your friend sounds like the typical autopilot casual. He's one of those people who seems to expect a game to hand him favorable results with zero investment or understanding. This is an especially unreasonable mindset to have in a PvP environment where your opponents are humans who will have varying skill sets and tendencies. He also seems to have an overall poor mentality for improvement (which is definitely rooted in the whole "autopilot casual" thing).
It's also possible that he just despises the genre and will always be looking for some type of justification for not playing the game. If this is the case, there's nothing you can really do.
I wouldn't let any of this discourage you. Entitled gamers like him (if the former is true) are becoming more and more common as popular game development has shifted towards instant gratification over long-term growth and satisfaction.
You could throw him to this link but it'd probably be a waste of time for both of you if a couple bad experiences are enough to dissuade him entirely from playing the game. DbD just isn't one of those instant gratification things. You will need to earn your ability to compete with people who have already invested some time into it.
On a final note, there are a ton of relaxing PvE (even some PvP) games out there that do a better job at holding a new player's hand through the learning experience. Perhaps you could try one of those?