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He is obviously better, but he still feels awful.
Snares are an imrpovement, but placing a Dream Pallet is unnecessarily complicated now. To place one, you have to:
- Switch to Pallet mode.
- Look at the spot for a fake pallet.
- Hold the pallet placement button.
- Press the confirmation button.
Why is something as simple as placing a Dream Pallet so convoluted?
If you've played Freddy before, you'll remember how smooth and quick it used to be. Placing Dream Pallets took just one button press, meaning you could do it seamlessly, even while chasing someone. After these changes, it’s no longer a single, fluid motion. Instead, you're stuck doing clunky button presses that make it impossible to use effectively in a chase.
I don’t understand why BHVR keeps designing powers in this clunky way, where you have to cycle through options, instead of simply assigning them to different keybinds. The fact that you have to keep switching between pallet and snare mode means you can't use both of your powers in a loop to increase their effectiveness, it's either one or the other.
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It was about time.
Now I wonder if they fixed it by increasing the survivor hitbox or the killer one
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Once the Killer picks up someone, they should always have at least two hooks to choose from. Making a teammate wiggle out should take teamwork and more than just another survivor. Picking up, carrying, and hooking are parts of the match where the Killer isn’t pressuring gens, chasing, or doing anything else useful. If survivors had an easier time wiggling out, there’d be no point in hooking, and more Killers would just slug.
If anything, I think BHVR should try something like 2v8-style cage hooks: after the pickup animation, the survivor is teleported to a hook. Incentivize hooking more than outright killing, and you’ve got a game that’s ten times healthier than it is now.
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Do you also want a BHVR dev to come to your house and play the game for you?
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864746#Comment_3864746
The survivor is also doing the same animations
The survivor has the upper hand with the distance and lead in the chase. The killer has to figure out where the survivor went after using the portal, and on top of that, the survivor gets i-frames while going through it. If the killer swings, they’re just wasting time. Plus, being downstairs is a complete time sink, even if the killer eventually catches up.
The only way portals would actually feel balanced is if they worked as seamless transitions, like Dr. Strange’s portals in Marvel’s Rivals or the ones in Portal. But let’s be real, they clearly can’t pull that off with their current skills/engine. So instead, they went with whatever was possible and hoped it would work, which just ended up being another useless and unbalanced feature. It’s like Breakable Walls all over again
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@Rudjohns said:
You dont hit survivors entering a portal, you enter the portal right after them. Killers interact with portal twice as fast
Considering you have to come to a full stop, interact with the portal, wait for the animation, and then get moving again (all while the survivor just keeps running) entering the portal to chase a survivor is almost always a waste of time.
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Your GPU is at 70% because it can handle higher resolutions. If you're playing at 1080p with everything maxed out and still seeing 70% usage, it means it could probably handle 1440p.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860590#Comment_3860590
A) he didn't say anything like that. He was saying that the increase in excessive slugging appears to be mainly to annoy the other side.
B) thanks for proving his actual point. The entirety of his post is that this new slugging is completely for petty reasons by the killer, and has nothing to do with the match itself. Then, you go on to list a bunch of petty patch/balance reasons that killers are using as an excuse to slug more now.
C) these aren't the reasons people are slugging. The last regression perk was changed about 6 months ago. This is 100% people (who don't understand how the game works) freaking out about 10 extra seconds on hook. Those 10 seconds, by the way, only ever come into play if the killer is camping or lurking near hook to tunnel. Those 10 seconds never even come into play if the killer actually pressures the other survivors on the map.
However, since most of these petty killers can't think of any other way to play the game than to tunnel and camp every single time, the "always play the same way, every game" mentality is now applying to slugging too.
You seem to agree with the person you're quoting that the excessive slugging "meta" going on right now is to annoy people. Survivors, devs, doesn't matter as long as killers get a buff in the end (in your opinion, apparently). See also: entitlement.
Most killers you face aren’t poring over patch notes on forums, plotting how to take out their frustrations on you by slugging. So, when people claim "killers are tunneling just to annoy survivors," they’re being blatantly biased and adding nothing of value to the discussion.
If you’re going to argue about slugging, at least address the actual game mechanics. Ignoring recent changes (like nerfs or finisher mori) or valid strategic reasons (such as slugging for pressure) only fuels the tired "us vs. them" nonsense. It’s lazy and dismissive.
Here’s a fact you conveniently overlooked: BHVR released stats on slugging just 3 months ago. According to them, only 45% of survivors spend more than 15 seconds on the ground, and just 24% spend over 35 seconds total in a match.
Does that mean no killer slugs just to be annoying? Of course not. But pretending it’s all about malice and refusing to engage with the broader picture shows you’re not here to contribute to an honest or productive discussion. You’re just venting. And if that’s the case, don’t dress it up as anything else. This kind of shallow, one-sided rhetoric does nothing but hurt the community by fostering misinformation and needless hostility.
If you want real dialogue, step up. Acknowledge the nuances, address the stats, and engage with the topic in good faith. Anything less is just noise.
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@GeneralV said:
Unfortunately slugging became way more common in recent times, perhaps even more than tunneling while DS was at its weakest.
And it wasn't being done due to strategic reasons, no. The slugging people are currently seeing and playing against is done simply to annoy the other side. There is no justification for it.
Luckily it seems the developers are aware of the problem. Whatever they choose to do to fix it, I hope it is way stronger and has a much bigger impact than the AFC. Slugging everyone for 4 minutes is something that should no longer be allowed to exist in DBD.
Yes the entire playerbase slugs purely to annoy the other side, no other reason whatsoever. It’s definitely not because gen regression perks tied to hooks, like Pain Res and Pop, got nerfed. Or because the hook stage timer was increased. Or because slugging when survivors stick together creates massive pressure. Nope, it’s just to be annoying. Totally.
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Both slugging and hiding for the hatch are frustrating playstyles, actively encouraged by BHVR's design choices. Instead of revisiting the rough edges of the game's basic concept, they've opted to pile on new features and mechanics, hoping something sticks. And now, here we are. Blaming players for engaging in unfun tactics (as if self-moderation ever worked in online multiplayer) distracts from the real issue: BHVR's failure to address core problems and their reliance on bandaid fixes.
We’re still playing a game without a clearly defined win condition, where the only thing that truly matters is the end result of kill or escape.
Rather than having these endless, unproductive debates between players, maybe it’s time to direct the discussion toward BHVR. Ask for meaningful, foundational changes that could genuinely push the game toward a healthier and balanced state.
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If you think the player count is dropping, just wait until the FNAF chapter releases. I’m 100% sure the number of players logging in will break the servers
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She's finally threatening and requires a little bit of IQ power to play against instead of just mindlessly holding W and vault. Good.
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She feels much smoother now and finally comes across as mostly finished, rather than stuck in a pre-QA stage like before. That said, there are still some lingering issues, like the dog’s pathing in search mode. Most importantly, snapping into a generator during search mode feels harder now, it takes me around 5 seconds to find the sweet spot, whereas it used to be much easier. Maybe it’s just me, but it’s frustrating.
I also really dislike the Knotted Rope change. They outright admitted they gutted the addon so people wouldn’t use it until they fix it. It’s the same thing they did to Skull Merchant and, presumably, Chucky. This sets a terrible precedent, it’s basically disabling a character or perk without officially doing so, which means casual players don’t even realize they’re being scammed. It’s one of the more anti-consumer practices BHVR is engaging in, and it’s frustrating to see people just letting it slide.
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They're just throwing random numbers to see what sticks, lol. At least TOTH didn't get gutted.
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There's an MMR floor (I can't remember the exact value, but let's say it's 1200 MMR). Once you reach it, you won't drop below it, no matter how many games you lose. The MMR bracket between 1200 and 1500 is the worst because it mixes players who truly belong there with those who shouldn't be, simply because they won a few games in a row and are now stuck in that MMR with no way of dropping back down
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It's almost 2025 and people are still calling Noed a crutch? huh
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If a match reaches a point where a Survivor could use basekit Unbreakable (e.g., a 4-man slug scenario or prolonged slugging for 2–3 minutes), it would merely extend the inevitable and unnecessarily drag out an already lost match. The real solution to slugging is to avoid being slugged as a team in the first place. Once multiple Survivors are down, the killer's pressure becomes so overwhelming that basekit Unbreakable wouldn’t turn the game around.
For instance, imagine Survivors could get up after two minutes of being on the ground if others are already downed. What would that achieve? Those two minutes were spent doing nothing, while the killer used that time to deplete Survivors’ resources. Any attempts at winning after that point would likely be futile unless in a highly coordinated comp setting
The harsh truth is that, in most cases, being slugged is the Survivor team's fault. Another commenter pointed out a Wraith slugging from the start (a Wraith, a killer with no real chase power). How does a Wraith punish a team by slugging? The answer is simple: no one was skilled enough to loop him for any significant amount of time. Basekit Unbreakable or not, it wouldnt change a thing.
Even if basekit Unbreakable were added, it wouldn’t actually solve the core issue. You’d get up, realize there’s nothing left to work with, and lose anyway. At that point, people would shift their complaints to something else, anti-facecam, hook respawns, tunneling, etc. The reality is that even if the game were perfectly balanced, people would still find something to blame and vent their frustrations on.
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Aestri, I stopped seeing her a few hours after she was added.
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After gutting Skull Merchant and releasing Houndmaster, I can't see any reason to vote for them over other games. Maybe next year, if they start focusing on QoL instead of mindlessly adding more licenses
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This killer is so janky, I genuinely don’t understand how it was greenlit after playtesting. Does anyone at BHVR play against above-average players? Honestly, I don’t know what’s worse, that they don’t, or that they do and still decided to sell a killer in this state.
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It lacks any hype because even BHVR doesn’t seem to care much for it. They couldn’t get it working properly in the PTB, and chances are, they won’t fix it before release. It'll end up overshadowed by events, skins, and the next licensed chapter.
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@dirkdiggggler said:
I haven’t played killer since chucky came out, I knew after xeno things were going in a bad direction. You guys keep buffing every aspect of killer and nerfing survivor I hate playing survivor but killer is comically easy now with all the perks and killers with training wheels like ######### were you thinking with Dracula? You have new players just 4king swfs please make killer hard again and not cater to people who will buy the game only to play it for 2 months and quit no matter what, put old mft as base kit for survivor I don’t care anything to make playing killer more fun and playing survivor solo less of a joke.
You wouldn't mind posting your stats then
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No wonder they didn't want to give a bigger BP survivor bonus for 2v8
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843375#Comment_3843375
You're just projecting into the scenario.
Again, I can't say this enough: people haven't gotten more petty over time. People disconnecting in this large of numbers is indicative of a pretty big game health issue.
You're also completely discounting things like tunneling which absolutely is a factor here. Smaller maps, nerfs to survivor perks and items, base kit killer buffs, making many killer add-ons base kit, and tile and pallet nerfs all contribute to reducing chase times and inherently making tunneling stronger.
So, tunneling is meta, the game is hard designed for survivors to lose the chase, they can't choose not to be tunneled. So if you get a few games of 3k BP in a row, then yeah: what exactly is the point of playing the game? The player is being told by the devs, the killer, the game mechanics, that going next is the only way to play. And that's just one example.
And that seems wrong. There should be some hope that players actually get to play the game. When you take that hope away, then "better luck next time" is literally the message in big, neon letters.
So let's fix that. Maybe making the survivor experience not completely suck and doing just about anything would be beneficial. And I'm not taking about endurance that's hard countered by counting to 10 or a mechanic that disables of you stand 11m from hook. An actual, gameplay improvement for players.
The devs have been driving toward an arbitrary 60% kill rate for years now, and every indication of game health seems to be that that is simply too high. Most players in these forums who only play killer have no problem with incessant killer buffs and constant survivor nerfs. Some people seem to think death garden is the goal: tip the game to the killers favor so much that it kills the game.
Let's try not to get that far and fix a few things. You don't do that by treating a symptom, you fix even one of the core issues a little bit.
Neither tunneling, slugging, nor camping justifies giving up on first hook after the first chase. That behavior isn't indicative of a balance issue. Survivors who give up on first hook exist, and denying this suggests one of two things: 1) you engage in this behavior yourself, or 2) you play in a SWF and don’t experience this issue.
Survivors who give up after the first chase would do so regardless of kill rates, killer strength, or whether the killer is camping or tunneling (they aren't in the game long enough to find out). As a Solo Q player, I’ve had teammates give up just because they didn’t get the map they wanted or because the killer brought Franklin’s. I even have a clip of a survivor giving up 12 seconds into a match because two players used map offerings, and the map ended up being the one the other survivor chose.
But sure, keep defending those players. Even if the game had lower kill rates, every playstyle nerfed, and every map rebalanced, you'd still see people giving up. Why? Because it’s an entitlement issue. Solo Q games are already challenging, but when you have teammates who actually stick around and play regardless of the circumstances, those matches are the most fun.
No one is complaining about the teammate who gets hard tunneled and decides to give up, or the survivor who gets slugged for three minutes and DCs out of frustration. The issue lies with players who give up in the first minute of the match, completely ruining the game for everyone else and walking away without any penalty. Trying to excuse this behavior is honestly shameful. It undermines the experience for those of us who queue to actually play instead of complain and go next at every minor inconvenience.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3843095#Comment_3843095
People can also stand afk at a hook, run toward the killer, hold shift so they can't be healed and bleed out. Even killers can just go stand in a corner and AFK.
You can't fix all of these things. And genuinely, most of these are just looking to outright punish the player.
No one ever seems to ask in these threads "why are people giving up on hook more now?" People being petty has always been a thing: didn't like the killer, or the map has always existed. People haven't started being "more petty" recently, and chalking this up to pettiness in it's entirety is either bias or blindness to the problem.
Giving up is a symptom, and we need to target even one of the causes.
So what changed? Is it that 60% kill rate target is to high? Is it that tunneling, camping, and slugging are simply too strong and the tools to defend against them basically useless? Is it that maps have been converted into shoe box sized areas with mostly dead zones and pallets held up by toothpicks? Maybe going through the killer roster making most add-on effects partially or completely base kit is too much. Maybe having basically no new survivor perks in two years that aren't either completely unusable or useful for a while until being nerfed into completely unusable.
Imo, it's a combination of all of those. So if you want to actually target the root cause of giving up, that's where to start. Giving up is a sign that the game's health is not good. Those things contribute to the problem, and punishing people for a game design flaw is only going to either make it worse, or we'll just be chasing the symptom with more and more punishment over time.
Target the cause of the problem, and the symptom will diminish.
You could play pre-nerf Skull Merchant (who was fairly balanced), and people still gave up every single game simply because they didn’t like the killer. Slugging, tunneling, camping, these mechanics are annoying, sure. But the reality is that the majority of complaints stem from that one survivor who gives up after being downed in their first chase, simply because they couldn’t run the killer for 5 gens, farm clips, and t-bag at the gates.
These players know they can cherry-pick lobbies and get away with it because BHVR has effectively handed them a free pass. It’s not about tunneling. It’s not about slugging. It’s not about camping. It’s about entitlement.
Stop enabling petty survivors to give up and skew the stats, and you’ll get a clearer picture of what the actual issues with the game are. Only then can we start addressing the real problems.
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Map Offerings only exist to be abused and ruin the game for the other side, and on top of that, they take up the Green Rarity slot, so Party Streamers get rarer every time a new map drops.
I went from Prestige 0 to 60 on Blight and have less than 10 Party Streamers.
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Someone at BHVR came up with the blue void idea and thought it was the smartest thing of all time so now everything is blue
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Nurse isn't as broken as people often make her out to be, nor does she "ignore the game's mechanics" as is frequently claimed. She simply plays differently and, as such, has a unique form of counterplay. Contrary to popular belief, she doesn't render pallets or windows useless, and her map control has been significantly weakened after all the blink range nerfs.
Yes, she's consistently ranked in the top tier on every tier list, but that's due to her potential performance, which is a far cry from what you typically see from the average pub Nurse.
Will you rarely come across a cracked Nurse who effortlessly shreds your attempts at a bully squad? Probably. But this is true for other strong Killers as well, like Blight, Billy, Spirit, etc. It's simply a consequence of having killers with such a high skill ceiling. This is actually positive for the game, as it rewards players for investing the time and effort to master a character. The only problem here is that the MMR system doesn't function properly, so matches often aren't balanced.
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You must be new to the game if you're not only constantly running into Wraiths, but also losing to them. Keep playing, and you'll improve to the point where Wraiths are not an issue (unless your teammates are bad).
Also, the nerfs you suggested… those are terrible. Like, really terrible. Just keep playing and stop trying to look at everything from a balance perspective when you're new, it’s pointless.
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You're the one supposed to punish the killer for camping, not the game.
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@Nebula said:
Holding people after spearing them just for an immediate double tap and insta down seems like this is not something that was play tested.
Spear someone, hold them, wait for huntress to snipe the stationary target, immediately hit them, profit.
I get that people will have different opinions on whether or not double teaming like this is enjoyable or whether it should be encouraged, or even a strong strategy, but personally it just feels very dull to be on the other side of and not well thought out.
Holding people after spearing them just for an immediate double tap and insta down seems like this is not something that was play tested.
It actually feels like something that's working EXACTLY as intended. Killers should have synergies with one another, that's the whole point of having two on a match.
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I would love to play Omegablink Nurse again.
Sadly, they'd have to bring back old graphics, old animations, and all that stuff, which is probably not gonna happen. A more realistic option would be adding some key game versions to the "betas" tab on Steam, so people can play and queue in those too. But even then, they probably don’t want anyone playing anything other than the current version of DBD.
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Way too many generators are spawning. At the start of a match, it’s common to see 2-3 gens get done quickly because they’re tucked away in a corner, letting 2-3 Guide survivors stack up tokens and speed through 3-5 gens while the Killers are busy chasing the rest of the team. There should be fewer gens on the map so survivors are forced to rotate, which makes it harder to abuse the Guide class since splitting up would be more necessary.
Still, the Guide class needs a nerf, and Killers need some kind of basekit incentive to even things out, like a built-in perk similar to Ruin, Pop, or Discordance. On top of that, survivors have Unbreakable now, making slugging less effective, especially since Hit & Run doesn’t work as well with the inclusion of Medic’s drive-thru healing. If Hit & Run isn’t viable, Killers are stuck chasing, but with all the pallets and strong tiles around, even that’s a struggle for anyone who isn’t Nurse, Blight, or Billy.
I’d also suggest adding two extra generators before the gates can be powered (so 10 total) to act as a buffer for the early-game rush. But that idea would need more thought, as it could mess with some matches if not handled right.
Personally, I'd much rather see this “nerfed” by introducing more fun classes, like a Totem-focused one, a chest-focused one, and so on. Basically, anything that keeps at least a few survivors off gens. Maybe also lower the limit of how many Guides can be in a match. It didn’t even take a full day before that one popular streamer showed off to the whole community how to abuse the Guide class and finish gens in five seconds.
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@zarr said:
Linking an older post of mine on the topic: https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703831/#Comment_3703831
tl;dr: Billy and Blight are so strong that the existence of crouch-teching if anything is a reasonable balance factor. They not only both have winstreaks in the thousands, but even in tournament play against the best survivor players that are all too keenly aware of when and how to best use crouch techs against them these killers still 4k pretty much any match. Demo on the other hand isn't strong enough to warrant having to deal with crouch techs, although rather than try to remove them, they should simply buff Demo, as he deserves buffs anyway and the vast majority of players don't even use or know about crouch techs.
There is also some semblance of counterplay to it. Crouch techs rarely work out against Blight to begin with, they are far from consistent or reliable, but for different-elevation crouch-teching specifically, as someone else has already noted, on Blight you can counter this by looking down before you attack. Generally if you anticipate a crouch tech you can either hold the attack and end up potentially getting a hit due to them trying to crouch it to begin with, or adjust your attack direction, because crouching usually only works out if the attack is not meeting the survivor head-on.
Billy and Blight are so strong that the existence of crouch-teching if anything is a reasonable balance factor. They not only both have winstreaks in the thousands, but even in tournament play against the best survivor players that are all too keenly aware of when and how to best use crouch techs against them these killers still 4k pretty much any match.
You have a very different perspective on balance if an exploit is deemed "reasonable" simply because the top 0.1% of players can perform well with those killers, especially when the exploit is accessible to literally 100% of survivors. Doesn't quite add up, does it?
There is also some semblance of counterplay to it. Crouch techs rarely work out against Blight to begin with, they are far from consistent or reliable, but for different-elevation crouch-teching specifically, as someone else has already noted, on Blight you can counter this by looking down before you attack.
Not true at all. Only Billy can look down while using his power, and even then, only during the first half-second of his sprint. Any sprint longer than that can be countered by crouching.
It’s also pretty amusing that you acknowledge crouch teching as unfair for Demogorgon, yet claim Blight and Billy should have to deal with it simply because… they’re strong enough? Are we really going to start justifying exploits based on personal preferences or because top streamers and competitive players perform well with those killers? The double standards here are honestly laughable. The whole discussion isn’t whether these killers are strong or weak due to crouch tech, it’s about an obvious exploit that shouldn’t exist, one that affects not only skilled players but also those trying to learn, and which takes literally no skill to execute. -
@indieeden7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3838939#Comment_3838939
Hardly a fair comparison. The killer literally makes the choice to use their power or not, survivors cannot freely choose where they encounter the killer.
Bruh. Survivors choose where to lead the killer during a chase, not the other way around. When a killer is forced to "choose" to play as an M1 killer (though it isn't really a choice, since there's no real counterplay), it effectively nullifies their power. This isn't a complex concept to understand.
The issue is even more pronounced on some maps than others. For instance, Springwood's Shack has a door that can be exploited using crouch tech, forcing the killer to handle the shack as an M1. Why is hug tech around the shack considered an exploit, but crouch tech at the shack gets a "just play around it" response?
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@indieeden7 said:
I mean, killers aren't FORCED to always use their power. If a survivor keeps crouch teching you, you should probably just go for an M1. A big part of this game is learning how to make the better choice in a certain scenario. Hence why killers like Huntress or Hillbilly even have the option to M1 in the first place.
That's like saying that to counter a Blight using Hug Tech you should just stop going to tiles where they can do it. See the problem now?
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@DaPrince said:
There's so much toxicity between teammates not doing generators as well as killers camping and tunneling someone who's not even obsession to the point where you're not having fun So in a world where we only live once so you have to make the most of your time who wants to waste their time on something that I'm having fun that is meant to be fun So my thing is they're not going to actually balance the game on Nerf anything these killers can actually do like stopping you from doing gins like the lockup Gin perk or Michael Myers tier 3 killing everyone they're not going to nerf that or make that once per trial or something like how some survivor perks are once per trial so why can't they just take away penalties then like the game will be a lot more tolerable if they take away penalties not to mention add game chat.
If your games are going so poorly that you feel the need to disconnect in most of them, I suggest taking a break from playing. Not only would you be doing yourself a favor, but you'd also be helping your teammates, who would appreciate having someone on their team who actually enjoys playing and isn’t constantly thinking of leaving. It’s a win-win for everyone.
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@Royval said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3835061#Comment_3835061
Tier list doesn’t matter on dbd. Be glad that he got changed after years.
That's exactly the mindset BHVR wants everyone to have, lol. It's been almost 8 years, and the best they could come up with were basic number tweaks that everyone knows probably took an intern a few days to whip up. The same thing happened with Twins, Sadako, Skull Merchant, and probably Freddy too. But hey, at least he got changed, right?
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They’re solid number tweaks, but overall, he’s still a weak, outdated killer with no real chase power. He won’t rank high on anyone’s tier list, and what’s even worse is that everyone is going to completely ignore him after these changes, since he’s technically not bottom tier anymore. I’d say D-tier at best, not suitable for 2024 DBD at all.
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The problem with most people lurking in these forums is that they're some of the most entitled players out there. BHVR could add Basekit Unbreakable, and sure, it would "fix" slugging, but it would only lead killers to play even more aggressively, tunneling and trying to secure kills as quickly as possible (even more than now). It's a side effect of removing one playstyle from the game.
Basekit Borrowed Time was added, and now people are asking for Basekit Unbreakable. Next, they'll ask for Basekit Deliverance or some other perk to patch up whatever frustrates them. But none of these "fixes" will solve the underlying issues because entitled players are just that, entitled. They could have every perk in the game as base kit and would still keep asking for more.
BHVR does well to ignore these types of comments. I’m pretty sure this forum exists as a way for BHVR to channel the frustration of the most entitled side of the playerbase into one place, so it doesn’t spill over as much.
Now, on to real issues… please start banning survivors who give up on first hook, that would skyrocket my enjoyment of the game. Thanks.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
I mean, you're making a few assumptions here to force the system to give you the information you want and declaring victory.
The most glaring is the use of random.uniform since we know for certain that isn't how the game works. The distribution isn't even close to uniform. There isn't the same chance for a 0k as there is for a 4k, for example.
Even just using the nightlight stats, 4k is the most common outcome (33.83%), then 0k (19.77%), followed by 3k (17.34%), 1k (16.49%) and finally 2k (12.58%). That's heavily weighted at the top end, not uniform.
Not to mention your results are highly off. Just defining a killer win to be a 3k or 4k pts killers winning about 51% of the time, and draws occur about 12.5%. so survivors are winning about 37% of the time. Not killers, although that appears to be the result you were trying to shoot for.
If your model doesn't even come close to the known data, then your model is wildly wrong. Which makes it seem like this was done to manufacture an outcome you liked to make a certain point.
The information is maybe interesting, but it isn't relating to DbD in any way.
You're mistaken. A Killer 'winning' doesn’t mean Survivors are 'losing.' Both the Killer and Survivors can win simultaneously in a match, so when there’s a draw, two Survivors also 'draw.' A 2K is the same as a 2E. The only scenarios where only one side wins are a 4K or 4E. So attributing all 2Ks as Killer wins and Survivor losses is inaccurate.
- 0k (or 4e): Clear survivor win.
- 1K (or 3e): Survivor-favored outcome.
- 2k (or 2e): Neither side exclusively "wins." Both could consider this an acceptable or neutral outcome.
- 3k (or 1e): Killer-favored outcome.
- 4k (or 0e): Clear killer win.
This leaves us with 2 possible win scenarios for the survivor side, 2 possible win scenarios for the killer side, and 1 scenario where both sides win equally. You're making it seem like 2k/2e is favoring the Killer when it's not.
Then you'd have to consider that the players using Nightlight are just a tiny fraction of the community and not representative of the actual stats of the game. According to the official data, Survivors escape around 43.5% of matches, aligning closely with the 40% escape rate (or 60% kill rate) that BHVR is targeting.
But ultimately, debating escape rates is pointless because many Survivors aren’t necessarily playing to escape. Plenty are focused on completing rift challenges, goofing around with friends, being overly altruistic, testing new builds, and so on. Without a dedicated "ranked" mode where everyone plays with the intent to escape, these stats are just one factor among many others, and trying to boil down the game’s balance to them alone is ignorant.
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@sinkra said:
Adrenaline, Boil Over and Distortion nerfs were the last straw for me. Distortion has one single charge while killers get to wall hack all game with constant aura reading JFL. You can't even hide anymore in a game that was based on stealth. Survivors are just supposed to be playthings for a killer's ego and not allowed to have counterplay?
These devs don't understand how to make a game fun. I remember an interview with a dev in another game who said the aim should be to make all abilities feel powerful, because it's FUN and balance each other out. Gutting any useful perk to the point no one with any sense would take it is effectively removing it from the game.
DBD was never intended to be a stealth game. Even back in the day, killers had perks like Spies from the Shadows and Whispers to counter sneaky survivors and encourage chasing. Over time, the game evolved, and now everyone plays with ten times the efficiency they used to, making "general location" perks like Whispers far less effective (even though Whispers itself was never changed). This led to the addition of more aura perks. There could be 200 aura perks, but a killer can still only equip four, so I'm not sure why it's an issue. Plus, only a few aura perks are even that useful, and figuring out which one the killer has is part of gameplay
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@sinkra said:
The stats show 2v8 had a 45% escape rate for the two most played classes and it felt much better for survivors. You rarely saw the level of dc'ing and giving up as in 1v4 because survivors could actually make a comeback. The matches also never felt over within the first 2 minutes like it so often does in 1v4. This is why so many survivors are asking for 2v8 to come back and want it to be permanent.
My point is if the devs want killer to be the power role, why such a massive advantage with the arbitrary 60/40 number. 55/45 arguably feels much better for both sides, not only for survivors but also for killers because with the 60% kill rate the games feel too easy for killer much of the time.
2v8 wasn’t better just because the escape rate went up by 5%. It was better because it was chaotic and way more fun. Three times as many pallets, no camping, no giving up, and loads of newbie killers to mix things up.
Right now, many killers have around a 55% kill rate. But would you even know which ones just by playing? Probably not. You call 60/40 arbitrary, but why? Isn’t 55/45 just as arbitrary? A 60/40 split averages about 2.5 kills per match, hitting that sweet spot where escaping isn’t so easy that it loses meaning, and killers still get enough kills to keep things interesting. At 55%, you’re just barely above 2 kills per match, but 2ks are almost always predictable: one player gets proxy camped, another dies trying to save, and the last two escape. Rinse and repeat.
In any case, the main 1v4 mode isn’t worse than 2v8 because of the escape rate; it’s worse because it just isn’t as laid-back.
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Players who kill themselves on first hook should receive a DC penalty doubled for ruining the match and not even providing their teammates a bot. If you queue up, you should be ready to commit to a full match, regardless of the killer, their build, map, etc. If you don’t want to face certain killers, go play customs and stop ruining it for everyone else. But of course, many people feel entitled to leave whenever they want and expect no penalty for it. It’s funny, because back in the day, it was Survivors making Killers give up, not the other way around.
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Can we make it a rule that you need at least 50 killer matches before posting suggestions? Please?
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The Distortion change wasn’t just good, it should serve as a blueprint for how to nerf perks without completely destroying them, something BHVR has yet to master with gen regression perks. Distortion remains fully usable, but now, instead of hiding, players need to actively engage with the killer. A teammate who wastes 15 seconds of the killer’s time is worth twice as much as one who just crouches and plays passively when they’re out of Distortion stacks.
Not only is Distortion still a strong perk, but the value it provides is incredible. Knowing that the killer isn’t running Lethal Pursuer, BBQ, or Nowhere to Hide is just as valuable as knowing they are using those perks. Acting like Distortion is dead is ridiculous.
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@trapners said:
Between the slugging ,the tunneling, and all the other playstyles that inherently make dbd so much easier for killers,how is it that that this game is survivior sided?
Did research and
-the escape rate of iri-1 -swf-4 survivors is 48%,anything below this exponentially depletes the escape rate
-the highest survivior escape streak is around 50-60, yet killer streaks with competent people get to the 3-4 digits
-survivor “second chance” perks are conditioned whilst killers “second chance” are mostly passive and promised value
Killers will complain survivors are to oppressive with flashbang, toolboxes, exc exc but they themselves will slug,tunnel and have access to addons.
Also. I know killer and survivior have two separate win conditions, but the escape rate practically provides with us at best; surviviors can tie whilst a killer is expected to get a 2k at worst, and with some skill a 3k
the escape rate of iri-1 -swf-4 survivors is 48%, anything below this exponentially depletes the escape rate
The kill rate BHVR is aiming for is 60%, which the stats show has been met. High MMR SWF groups are breaking this balance, but everyone else isn’t (Solo - Duos - Trios Escape Rate: 40% OR 60% Kill Rate for the killer, which means things are working as intended). There’s no "exponentially depleting" going on with escape rates, you’re misusing the term. The escape and kill rates are in a balanced state, aside from High MMR 4-man groups escaping more often than intended, according to official stats.
The highest survivor escape streak is around 50-60, yet killer streaks with competent people get to the 3-4 digits
This is just inaccurate. Hens holds the highest escape streak with 200 consecutive 3-man escapes against some of the best killers in Europe. Killer winstreaks tend to get higher because killers can go full sweat mode solo from the start, while survivor winstreaks rely on four people playing at peak performance, including randoms who might not even care about escaping. Coordinating four people? That’s always tougher than just one.
Survivor "second chance" perks are conditined whilst killer "second chance"are mostly passive and promised value
Do you even play DBD? Both sides have second-chance perks, some conditional, some guaranteed. Even then, considering that the Killer can bring 4 perks while survivors bring a total of 16, it would make sense for Killer perks to guarantee value more often. But that's not even the case.
Killers will complain survivors are to oppressive with flashbang, toolboxes, exc exc but they themselves will slug,tunnel and have access to addons.
Players from both sides complain constantly, so it’s a pretty weak argument if you’re saying the game’s killer-sided based on that. You opened your post by griping about slugging and tunneling.
but the escape rate practically provides with us at best; surviviors can tie whilst a killer is expected to get a 2k at worst, and with some skill a 3k
A 2k is the balance point in DBD. It keeps matches from being too easy and letting everyone escape every game. A 2k is a draw, not a win, for killers, and that target 60% kill rate is supposed to bring the average up to about 2.5 kills per match. For anyone who’s not biased or just trolling, this is actually a healthy number. If we’re going by stats like you are, then the game’s balanced at all levels, except at high MMR with survivor squads, where they’re escaping more often than intended, making it survivor-sided at that level.
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Basekit BBQ & Chili with increased BP bonus
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There might as well be 100 aura reading perks, but Killers can only use 4. And even if they are running 4 aura reading, they're giving up anti heal, gen slowdown, etc.
You're complaining about a non issue, it's usually very evident which aura perk the killer has and pretty fun to figure out as well.
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Anyone who thinks Survivors should be able to see the killer in the lobby is simply trolling or has maybe 2 hours at the game, not sure why it's even being discussed. It's like if someone tried to say that old exhaustion should be back