LollyGurl
LollyGurl
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Same here, I tried with both Google and Yahoo mail accounts and got nothing
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They thought the chains would keep me from posting, but all they managed to do was delay me by a week.
My impostors have infested most of Behaviour Interactive now, complaining about their players whenever they're at the campfire. Soon the in-universe reputation of all Behaviour staff will be as muddy as the waters the Pale Rose sails upon.
This is your annual reminder that the Luck mechanic is still terrible.Sincerely
That weirdo who does annual posts about the Luck mechanic
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And so it has come to this, for too many years now, my pleas for change have been ignored, forcing me to resort to revolutionary bhvr!
Last night, I kidnapped Mathieu Cote‘s Hag and replaced her with an imposter who plays identically and yet commits her every hiss and growl towards mocking his taste in media to the other killers and survivors.
If a positive overhaul to the Luck mechanic, along with its perks and offerings, isn’t seen within the next year, I will not only continue to hold this Hag hostage but also escalate this bhvr, kidnapping and replacing other staff member’s killers and survivors with substitutes that mock them when they’re not looking!
SincerelyThat forum member obsessed with the Luck mechanic
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@Beaburd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707790#Comment_3707790
I'm not sure what the point of this response is, as the intention is largely irrelevant.
The user is still using a third party program (condition 1), to derive an advantage (condition 2), that the average player cannot access (condition 3). Their opponents are very likely unaware you have this advantage (condition 4a), and the developers have not whitelisted this program as far as I know (condition 4b).
It's very easy for people to justify things in their mind because they think they're some special exception, but they really aren't. As long as the conditions are met, which they are by general and DBD-specific definitions, its use is still cheating.
Now, does that mean you will be punished, or people will think less of you?
Maybe, I don't know.The developers have a long stance on just wanting players to have fun and being quite understanding about individual's needs, so I doubt anyone will be punished if I had to guess. The opinions of others should not matter to, but if they do, it will likely be a mixed bag of those sympathetic to one's mental health issues; whereas others will be upset that they are still cheating. If I really had to guess again, especially for those suffering from mental health issues, I bet those who need to use the volume controller to help maintain themselves would even be encouraged to do so.
I also feel the need to clarify that I'm not condemning the use of these programs. As stated, I do not think the developers care and I would bet, if pushed into a corner, they would even encourage its use, especially if you mention it helps with your mental health issues. I'm sure they just want you and others to have fun. As such, me worrying about what is right and wrong to do in this game would be a nonsensical and subjective train of thought that would eventually exhaust me.
I am simply answering the question stated in the thread, which asks whether or not the use of Equalizer is cheating - and the answer is yes, by definition, it is. The only issue after that is whether users like you can accept and be okay with that, or deny and justify it because you believe your situation somehow makes you an exception to that definition. Either way, that's not an argument I can (nor should) be involved in.
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In case your curious what advantage I'm talking about, specifically lowering the scream volume is still a beneficial luxury that the average player does not have and can affect game play by reducing your own personal recoil and allowing an easier time for the user to stay in the game (which you fully admit to using it for).
People using adaptive technologies to participate to the best of their ability shouldn’t be considered an advantage because it’s being used to fairly compensate for a disadvantage.
Meanwhile, wallhacks, stretched res, using trainers or having a killer bot with multiple instances of Stridor play your trials for you is not fairly compensating and that distinction matters.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707160#Comment_3707160
Actually still yes.
I am going to assume for a moment that everything you say is correct since I lack personal experience with the software and would be basing my information on the words of strangers. Given that you are correct, and EQ provides no tangible benefits to the user, I would concede that it is not cheating. After all, you make it sound more like a detriment to run rather than any sort of advantage.
But if that's the case, since this software is only a detriment by that logic, no one should even want to use it - nevermind be encouraged to use it.
However, we're in a scenario where people apparently are using it, to a degree prevalent enough to warrant discussion around it. These individuals are either inflicting self pain on themselves willingly or they found (or believe to have found) a benefit to using EQ. Given that this benefit, whether perceived or real, relates to a critical component of gameplay (audio), that benefit is therefore an advantage to the player.
In that case, those people would be using a third party program (condition 1), to obtain some form of advantage in the game (condition 2), which is not obtainable by the average player within the game itself (condition 3). I doubt the user's opponents are aware of this advantage (condition 4a), and I still do not see this program as whitelisted by the developers (condition 4b).
By this logic, unless the users really are secret audio masochists (which I somehow doubt), those users of EQ are still cheaters by both the general and DBD-specific definitions.
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TLDR:
if EQ is as bad as you make it sound, then no one should even want to use it; but people do, and are. In that case, it's safe to assume they are getting a benefit/advantage from its use. In which case, even the program has many negatives and restrictions, as long as an advantage is being derived that the average player cannot access, it is still cheating.Your position assumes only two uncharitable possibilities, again highlighting how little you understand this topic. As I discussed in my earlier post, equalizers can also be used to stop sounds peaking above a set level.
There are a lot of us, especially those with ASD, who struggle with loud noises or else traumatic sounds that can trigger anxiety attacks, in this case it would be the screams survivors make upon being hooked, which are both loud and potentially triggering.
So when playing on PC, I use an equilizer to stop any sounds from going above a certain volume… that doesn’t make anything else easier to hear, but it means I can spare my ears and nerves from sounds that are unbearably loud to me. It also enables me to wear headphones whilst playing DBD on PC, something I don’t risk when playing DBD on PS4 and Switch (and mobile). -
I use an equalizer to reduce the hook screams below ear piercing levels, some of us need sound balancing as an accessibility option, same as the heartbeat indicator for deaf players that subsequently enables all survivor players to rely on that instead of focusing on actively determining the killer’s proximity based on the stages of terror radius music.
Edit: Like I play DBD on PC, PS4 and Switch and the only one I can get away with playing whilst using headphones is on PC where I have the equalizer, which means that when playing on PS4 and Switch I’m actually at a disadvantage because I can’t tell which directions sounds are coming from without suffering the abuse of hooked survivors screaming… which Behaviour clearly thought needed to be as loud as the voice actor screaming directly into both our ears IRL for some reason… maybe because they thought we were falling asleep at the gen repair simulator portion and needed a wake up call? -
So it's come to this...
As of today, I have submitted requests to the United Nations, the World Health Organisation, Gamblers Anonymous Montreal and the Nerf Pig Alliance to take direct action against Behaviour Interactive for the continued and unsafe inclusion of the self-unhooking 'aids' known as:
1) Slippery Meat;
2) Up the Ante; and
3) The following offerings associated with 'Luck';
a) Chalk Pouch;
b) Cream Chalk Pouch;
c) Salt Pouch;
d) Black Salt Pouch;
e) Ivory Chalk Pouch; and
f) Vigo's Jar of Salty Lips
These alleged aids have only become more game breaking with the nerf to Made for This, especially with the proposed perk Wicked, which if combined with any of the above aids will give survivors a greater than 100% chance to self-unhook, allowing them to swing off the basement hook and immediately into the next trial or something, which means they don't have to Urban Evade all trial before escaping through the Hatch.
The Luck perk/offering abuse must end, so here's hoping it won't take another year for these organisations to present their official responses.
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@Technature said:
This is the first time I've seen someone say they "get" the bedazzled gas mask.
No see, it’s important that it doesn’t cover both eyes, that’s just effective gas mask design ;)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3396116#Comment_3396116
No. I'm saying people equipped the perk in the PTB, realized it's possible to get 0 activations from it, and dropped the perk. And the people that did equip the perk very often weren't getting value form it, because I was checking everyone's build in the post game screens, to see how many people were using DH.
Oh wow, so you’re able to review a significant sample of matches and have backend access that lets you track players pick rate of the previous PTB iteration of Dead Hard?
That’s amazing, I bet your uncle works for Behaviour and gave you the inside scoop, right? :D
And again, Deliverance still see’s regular play, it’s not hard to safely unhook someone in the age of basekit Borrowed Time.
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@CaptainHustles said:
My only question is why does she still use duct tape on her equipment if shes a millionaire?
I agree, she should be using sparkly diamond encrusted tape at the very least so it goes with her mask
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@roundpitt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394667#Comment_3394667
Everyone will run it if you remove the exhaustion requirement. It would become an extra health state that you get after every hook that you could also run with lithe/sprint burst. That's way too powerful my dude. Not running it would be like shooting yourself in the foot. It's not even a choice at that point.
With the exhaustion requirement, you have to choose, do you want one extra health state per hook, or do you want to be able to extend chases an extra 20 to 60 seconds depending on the map.
I disagree that being able to combine it with another Exhaustion perk is a problem when MoM exists, which doesn’t require skill to have it protect you and has no problem stacking with Exhaustion perks in live. Meanwhile as I addressed earlier, if Dead Hard is meant to be an anti-tunnel of hook perk, then Off the Record is just as reliable.
And as a Nemmy main, I literally deal with 3rd health states all the time without issue. Sure it sucks for M1 killers, but they all need proper reworks over nerfing just 1 survivor perk that overly screws with them, but the latter is admittedly the quicker and easier option.
@sizzlingmario4 said:
If you removed the Exhaustion then the change wouldn't be a nerf anymore.
Even without Exhaustion, it’s still permanently reduced to 0-2 uses, each of which you have to trade a hook state for, whereas the live version is only limited by Exhaustion and the previous PTB iteration could be used multiple times if you were altruistic and all without losing a hook state. That’s a sizeable nerf and one no other Exhaustion perk has to deal with.
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My dude, Call of Brine is staying on a lot of my builds, regardless of the fact it lost a ton of regression power and will be dropping from the meta, it’s still a good information perk IMO, better than Surveillance 90% of the time and just amazing on Nemesis because it makes zombies camp gens. Yet that hasn’t stopped tons of people on this forum claiming that it literally does nothing now, but they’re objectively wrong and so are you about Dead Hard.
Some people will continue to use Dead Hard, just as tons of people continue to use Self-Care and were allegedly responsible for the mass downvoting of DBD and its DLC on Steam following the release of this PTB because they didn’t wanna Self-Care for up to 80 seconds.
Some people just want to play with their favourite perks and if that turns out to be 10% of the playerbase with Dead Hard, you’re just gonna have to cope with it not being as dead as you demand it to be.
Regardless Dead Hard was nerfed and lost popularity after the removal of DH for distance, it dropped from around 3/4 to 1/3 usage, with part of that being a skill issue that deterred less skilled players from using it as an undo button and yes, obviously highly skilled players got just as much use out of the revision, that’s what highly skilled players do.
Meanwhile, you continue to insist PTB players were just equipping the previous version and then wasting it by going out of their way not to charge it and I don’t think you get how dumb that sounds?
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395543#Comment_3395543
You didn't really address it. Considering how much complaining people have done with this patch, do you really think people would just silently sit back if they thought DH got nerfed twice in the same PTB? Do you think DH got nerfed twice this patch, but it's such a sneaky double nerf that only you figured it out, and everyone else is just oblivious to the double nerf?
Yes, we have people complaining it still has value. It could have been massively nerfed like the original PTB version, but now we get a watered down nerf that's not anywhere near as good of a nerf. The original PTB version was still usable as a situational perk for people that were dedicated to making unhooks (like you claimed to be), so people like you could still use it. The big difference is it would have been a situational perk and not a "everyone gets 2 free activations" perk.
As I said in the other thread, I think I’m just coming from a different perspective, one that others HAVE agreed with no less.
Again, the original PTB version wasn’t a significant nerf, it was just adding Deliverance style rules into the mix. Altruistic players still had no trouble earning similar uses of that PTB version to what they were getting with the current live version, which is 3 on average, equal to unhooking each of your fellow survivors at least once like a good team player.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395722#Comment_3395722
The charges are free because the survivor doesn't actively have to do anything to get them. It doesn't matter if you call it a "consolation prize" because it's still for free.
And the original PTB version also didn't have people start the trial with a DH.
And even though "being unhooked is never guaranteed", being able to unhook someone is also "never guaranteed". If unhooks aren't happening, both versions wouldn't have gotten charges.
And again, it doesn't matter if you personally think the original PTB version is more powerful. It's super clear the majority of people don't agree with you, because they aren't flooding these forums with complaints. The original PTB version isn't like a hidden "best kept secret" that only you see, and everyone else just doesn't see its hidden better-ness.
Are we really gonna appeal to popularity, maybe I just have a different perspective because I’m not obsessed over the perk’s continued existence?
The previous iteration was basically the live version meets Deliverance, but with up to 6 times the potential for charges. Deliverance being a perk that still sees regular play despite being a once per trial gimmick that also isn’t guaranteed to work. I’d barely call it a nerf when people could earn a couple charges without losing a hook state of their own.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395552#Comment_3395552
You said yourself that the original PTB version was still usable, and that is the version I want to go live.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395564#Comment_3395564
DH in any chase could be devastating to a killer's momentum. New DH just means that everyone should continue to hit a survivor immediately after being unhooked, to prevent the DH, so killers can see zero DHs.
The idea of a chase meta failed. Killers should still camp hooked survivors, because there is a giant urgent encouragement to be there when the survivor is unhooked, because it's the only time most killers can place a survivor in deep wounds so they can't DH. And before anyone asks, yes I hate DH so much that I will hang out next to a hook, and hit a survivor immediately after being unhooked. I don't care if survivors think it's unfun. If BHVR wants to keep DH in a meta, and if survivors want to continue bringing this awful perk, then this game can be Camping Simulator 2023. This is how I currently play, and it's how the game wants me to continue to play.
You want the previous PTB iteration despite the fact it lets survivors earn Dead Hards for up to 6 chases, potentially starting from your very first chase, seemingly because of some misguided notion that survivors aren’t willing to earn uses for their perks and thus it’ll be picked less, something you’ve never shown any evidence for.
Meanwhile, camping makes it harder to earn Iridescent Shards and Rift Fragments, so if you feel you HAVE to camp that’s on you, but it’s not for me… just as you didn’t feel bothered to unhook others to earn Dead Hards under the previous iteration, which now means you’d be making it harder for others to gain their ‘free’ Dead Hards if you’re not getting them off the hook.
Heck, you admit it yourself that killers can just deny the newest PTB Dead Hard through tunneling and camping, so how is it un-nerfed again?
@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395678#Comment_3395678
I want to be clear that my issue isn’t the difference between live and new DH. My issue is how much of a huge un-nerf DH has between the original PTB version and the new version.
The original PTB version was a massive nerf I would have been done with. Survivors would have needed to earn activations, and DH still wouldn’t have been in the first chase.
Again, you keep saying its charges are free, they’re not, they’re a consolation prize for getting hooked and you still have to earn them by Kobe, using a separate self-unhook perk or convincing someone to unhook you.
You don’t start the trial with it as the current live version and just like the previous PTB iteration you primarily earn it through altruism, just not mechanically so.
Being unhooked is never guaranteed, you can go a whole trial with zero ‘free’ charges if you’re abandoned on hook or hooked as the final survivor, both issues unique to this version.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395554#Comment_3395554
CoB is not a viable information perk. If you just wanted information there's already a park that does the same thing better.
And what would that be?
Also does it proc tons of LLNs to make my zombies camp gens?
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395142#Comment_3395142
Almost every gen regression perk is on the chopping block.
SB , Lithe and Overcome didnt get a 75% reduction in effectiveness like CoB did. That's madness.
CoB is still a viable information perk, better than something like Surveillance for most builds and it still has some regression value, meanwhile Overcome isn’t a great perk to begin with, being the only Exhaustion perk restricted to when survivors are healthy IIRC.
And I’m sure when this latest nerf to Dead Hard goes live and things like Sprint Burst and Lithe raise in popularity that they’ll see a nerf also, just be patient.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395475#Comment_3395475
No, its usability went from "survivors can easily get 0 activations", to "survivors get 2 free activations". When the other person said "I can't coast through a chase because DH requires something new to work", they were referring to the fact the original PTB version required survivors to actually do something new (unhook survivors) to work.
We should not be comparing current DH to the new DH. We should be comparing the original PTB DH (from a week ago) to new DH, so everyone can realize it got a huge un-nerf.
Do you know what it's like to super hate a perk for a really long time, and seeing the original PTB notes... and seeing a massively nerfed DH. And thinking "It's finally happened! We can finally get rid of this obnoxious perk!".... And then a week later all of that is ripped away, when the perk gets un-nerfed so much that it's almost like this is the bare minimum nerf BHVR could think of that might somewhat reduce its pick rate. It's almost like instead of wanting to really nerf Dead Hard, BHVR wants to just push it as lightly as possible, to see if killers make it "a hot topic" again.
Some of my fellow killer mains won’t be happy until the perk is completely unusable or better yet ceases to exist, it doesn’t matter whether it’s the most controversial perk nor that you personally super hate it, because a good subsection of this community don’t care about balance and/or don’t know what they’re talking about (which sometimes includes me).
The only reason people weren’t getting activations with the previous PTB iteration was because they were unlucky or lazy, which applies to a bunch of perks on both sides that have a cap on potential uses. I, the person who chose We’re Gonna Live Forever for their profile icon, would probably have little trouble getting Dead Hard activations and could potentially have it for multiple chases before you finally hook me, something the latest iteration makes impossible to do.
As for its pick rate, it already dropped by 50% after the Dead Hard for distance removal, dropping from around 3/4 survivors to around 1/3 and even the current iteration will drop uses now it has a 0-2 cap on attempts for the entire trial.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395488#Comment_3395488
If the new DH really were worse than the original PTB version, then these forums would have been flooded with complaints. And that would include survivors demanding the new DH change be reverted, if they really thought the original PTB version were better.
I’ve already addressed this
@LollyGurl said:
And please, any change that doesn’t completely remove Dead Hard from the game will be considered as an advantage to survivors, the community is full of people who talk nonsense.
Instead we have people complaining it still has value and as such, despite being the only Exhaustion perk with a cap on its uses and which is now 1/3 of the cap offered by its previous iteration, it needs more nerfs ITO until no one would ever dare use it, not even as a meme and no one will ever again attempt Adept David King because Dead Hard’s penalities need to be made so great as to make the Adept achievement impossible to do :D
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And that’s not something Dead Hard gives you :D
It’s not MoM or an extended Exhaustion effect, its a half second window subject to lag and mind games and now you have to be unhooked to even gain an attempt at its circumstantial effect in the first place, it’s not ‘on your own terms.’
And if you’re an experienced player who’s confident in your abilities, then why not swap Dead Hard for literally anything else, maybe something with half the limitations?
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395508#Comment_3395508
You asked why it was an Exhaustion perk, and I told you. It is straight up more powerful than all the other examples for all the reasons I listed.
It WAS more powerful, when it wasn’t restricted by whether randoms unhook you. Likewise, an experienced player who avoids getting hooked will get little to no power out of it and then the other Exhaustion perks don’t have a cap on their uses, making them more viable in general.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3395500#Comment_3395500
Mettle of Man has a much more difficult activation requirement and you don't get to choose when it goes off.
Borrowed Time doesn't affect you.
Off The Record doesn't need to be an Exhaustion perk because if you get any value out of the perk, you get Deep Wounds anyway.
A Styptic Agent is a one time use add on, with a set duration timer, that consumed the item it is on.
These are all really, REALLY bad examples.
They’re not REALLY bad examples, they’re alternatives, especially as Behaviour is promoting the latest Dead Hard as an anti-tunnel perk.
For Borrowed Time, it’s giving someone you unhook a better chance of getting Deep Wounded if the killer chooses to tunnel them, which technically the newest iteration of Dead Hard doesn’t guarantee if they can’t Mend from a basekit Borrowed Time hit.
Off the Record is again a deterrent to being tunnelled off hook by extending that Endurance even longer, in addition to silencing you.
Mettle of Man is the other 3rd health state perk and unlike the latest Dead Hard you can get it without ever being hooked, just take 3 bodyblock hits to stall a potential hooking to charge it and it’s guaranteed to take a hit without worrying about mind games or lag.
Styptic Agent, like new Dead Hard, is something you bring into the trial that ‘might’ save you being downed once and hey, you don’t have to be unhooked first and it frees up a perk slot.
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@WesCravenFan said:
So you can't run it with another Exhaustion perk, simple as that.
And as I’ve already discussed, that doesn’t work from a balance perspective now it requires being unhooked to activate, when being unhooked clears Exhaustion.
Mettle of Man isn’t an Exhaustion perk, Off the Record isn’t an Exhaustion perk, Borrowed Time isn’t an Exhaustion perk using a Styptic Agent doesn’t inflict you with Exhaustion and so on, nor do any of the other Exhaustion perks outside of Overcome needing you to be healthy, have a secondary activation requirement that caps how many times you can use it a trial.
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And please, any change that doesn’t completely remove Dead Hard from the game will be considered as an advantage to survivors, the community is full of people who talk nonsense.
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The only way the previous iteration was problematic (from my perspective) is if someone was farming charges, denying others the chance to earn them, yet even then, they couldn’t farm charges from their own unhookings.
And here’s the thing, despite winning ‘the most used survivor perk’ several years running, more recent stats show it’s only equipped by 1/3 survivors, down from its 3/4 popularity of years past and so the probability of multiple Dead Hard users competing for charges isn’t that high, meanwhile SWFs can always plan around it.
Now, this doesn’t stop randoms unintentionally denying the Dead Hard user charges, but this is the same problem plenty of other unhooking and also totem related perks have and so with the previous iteration’s potential for upwards of 6 charges, I didn’t see the possibility of not getting max charges as making it weaker than the current iteration that requires that you’re not abandoned on hook.
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See, I’ve always considered Dead Hard an inherently selfish perk, but with great potential for altruistic use like with MoM.
But the lone wolf types, the type who aren’t out there unhooking and healing others, I immediately begin to doubt they’re worth unhooking, especially when they likely won’t do the same for me and so they aren’t getting any ‘free charges’ out of me unless it was too early in the game for me to see how they really play.
And so despite what you might think, those ‘free’ charges still need to be earned and you earn them by showing me and the more jaded of your solo teammates that you’re worth unhooking.
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It’s hilarious that the vibe of many of your replies is that you don’t believe the average survivor (or at least you as a survivor) really cares to unhook others and yet the latest iteration of Dead Hard is wholly dependent on the user being unhooked to get their ‘free’ charges :D
And even if you plan on self unhooking through something like Deliverance or Slippery Meat, it’s only going to give you 1 ‘free’ charge at best, not the hypothetical potential for 6 (or more) the previous 2 iterations allowed.
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@philward1953 said:
"I can't coast through a chase because DH requires something new to work"
No, its usability went from upwards of once every 40 seconds (less with Vigil) provided they mend, to its uses requiring you to be hooked and then (self) unhooked, giving it 0-2 uses.
That means that the dev’s consider it ‘balanced’ to have a perk that’s not guaranteed to work in the first place, due to mind games, timing and lag, then it can be denied by some killer perks and add-ons or them just tunnelling you off hook and at most you get it as a consolation prize for being hooked provided you get off said hook.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394902#Comment_3394902
D-Strike has a time limit, so it's much more likely for people to feel a need to force a D-Strike.
The main difference is that original PTB DH is a situational perk, where people need to actively earn activations, because they might get 0 activations. And yes, it could still be good for dedicated users, and they could still want to equip the original PTB DH..... but most people aren't dedicated into getting unhooks, and would likely to drop the perk.
And that's the main thing. Original PTB DH was a situational perk, and new DH is an "everyone gets free activations" perk.
As I said in my own thread on the topic, they’re not free if you’re giving up a hook state for them, they’re a consolation prize.
Again, this revision ensures a survivor won’t have Dead Hard until you’ve hooked them and then only once each post-hooking chase, they can’t run off and recover from Exhaustion or unhook others to earn more charges, it’s 2 uses maximum and it’ll have no meaningful interaction with Blood Rush, unlike other Exhaustion Perks (except Overcome).
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All you have to do is equip Empathy or Kindred, sometimes if you want to get value out of a perk, an info perk is the easiest solution.
Taking it further, a traditional DH (team) player could be trying to take hits to prevent others getting hooked, because their build is about avoiding being hooked themselves.
Regardless, unhooking people to get value out of perks is nothing new, you don’t equip We’ll Make It and then complain you didn’t get a boost to altruistic healing when you never went for the unhook.
And ultimately they’re not free activations if you’re losing a hook state for them, they’re a consolation prize.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394878#Comment_3394878
Sabotaging themselves? You honestly think people are purposely going to run to the killer to get hooked, so they can get a DH activation? Really?
And the occasional uselessness, involving a survivor that is the last survivor, but has never been hooked, is extremely rare, compared to the number of survivors that would have gotten 0 activations from the original PTB DH, just because they never unhooked anyone.
If they’re desperate enough, then yes, I say this because I saw it happen all the time with D-Strike. I’ve always made it a habit not to tunnel and yet you always knew the ones who had it because they went out of their way go get hit by you again.
Some people just want to validate their choice to equip x perk, even if it means they’re effectively wasting it.
If people aren’t going for unhooks, then that’s their choice, but as my profile icon might suggest, I’d have no trouble earning DH through unhooks.
So by what basis do you judge that people not getting hooked pre-endgame is extremely rare?
How many times have you encountered stealthy line wolves who become the final survivor without getting a single hook state, how many times would they get to use this revision of Dead Hard?
What about those of us killers who snowball things late game, especially with the likes of NOED? So many times I’ve caught cocky survivors and gotten all three hook states in one.
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This second revision GUARANTEES that a survivor won’t have DH active on your first chase with them, that’s huge and something I don’t think’s been the case in the history of the perk’s existence?
Also under the previous revision a dedicated player could easily get enough safe unhooks for a respectable 3 uses, if not the full 6. Now their potential for DH uses is 1/3 of that at max, provided they’re unhooked twice, which is even less guaranteed than them safely unhooking others.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394677#Comment_3394677
Currently, people average about 3 DH per match, which is 1 per health state. It is so very rare I ever see a survivor use DH more than 3 times per match. If someone uses DH, you keep chasing them so they don't get their DH back.
The original PTB DH, where people could easily get 0 activations, is a massive nerf, and should be the version that goes live. I would be fine with that version. This new DH is a huge un-nerf compared to the original PTB DH, and shouldn't go live, because this game deserves a massive nerf at the same intensity as the original PTB DH.
I’d argue that the latest version is getting into D-Strike territory, where survivors start sabotaging themselves just to get value, that’s why I don’t think it’s an un-nerf.
It also risks the occasional uselessness of Deliverance if you don’t get hooked until you’re the last survivor and now a survivor’s guaranteed not to have it on your first chase, unlike the PTB’s initial revision of DH.
And for now it looks like it’ll remain an Exhaustion perk, which makes it even less appealing with a max of 2 charges from being hooked. I can easily see MoM being more enticing if DH goes live as is, at least then you only have to body block 3 hooks and you can pair MoM with Exhaustion perks.
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@Stroggz said:
Shouldn't we prevent and penalize when survivors all survivors do 1 gen, is it tunneling a gen?
Basekit Deadlock when?
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There are things both survivors and killers can bring to the trial to make skill checks harder, but comparatively speaking, nothing makes kicking gens require skill.
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@VirtuaTyKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3394659#Comment_3394659
Neither is gen rushing so not sure what your point is? I get bored kicking gens though anyway so might be roll of the dice hex builds for me.
Great when all you can rely on is a roll of a dice.
Gen rushing does require skill, a lot of survivors struggle with difficult skill checks, which is part of what made Overcharge good and it’s why not all of them can use Brand New Parts or Hyperfocus. Then easier stuff like Prove Thyself or Friendly Competition causes Discordance to trigger or requires them to waste time cleansing/booning like Overzealous, which gained the booning option just as the best boon’s getting giga-nerfed :D
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As fulltonon said, Camping already penalises your emblem score, thus making it harder to earn Iridescent Shards and Rift Fragments. Meanwhile, Merciless only matters for adept achievements which killers have already endured a harder time with for years up until recently, especially compared to survivors only ever needing to escape.
And there’s no real way to penalise Tunneling outside of having perks that discourage it and not everyone’s going to use those.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/371451/just-to-be-clear-on-cob-overcharge
Correct. Dead Hard gets a huge un-nerf, and Pain res just gets a small un-nerf where it's still completely awful.
When did Dead Hard get un-nerfed, it dropped from once every 40 seconds (or less with Vigil), down to 0-6 uses from safe unhooks and then down to 0-2 uses depending on if the survivor gets off the hook and either mends or escapes without a Deep Wound?
Did I miss an addendum to the recent Developer Update or are you just trying to make the rest of us killer mains look bad by continuing to whine about Dead Hard until it’s removed from the game, regardless of how much it’s butchered?
Meanwhile Call of Brine is fine, it’s still a perfectly viable information perk, especially great for Nemmy mains like me with all those LNNs to make zombies camp gens and it’s still better than something like Surveillance for most builds.
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@Blueberry said:
It’s still going to be meta with this change, it still needs to be an exhaustion.
I don’t see how it’s going to be meta if they keep it an Exhaustion perk AND have a charge requirement that may never happen if you’re a better looper than the killer or get your 1st hook as the final survivor.
How meta is Decisive Strike these days?
I’d argue D-Strike will be stronger than Dead Hard if the latter goes live in this revised state.
The point is that Dead Hard’s Exhaustion aspect won’t interact with its charge requirement, being unhooked or self unhooking clears any Exhausted status and so keeping it an Exhaustion perk is purely to prevent its use alongside other Exhaustion perks and to interact with killer Exhaustion effects.
So why would anyone choose this twice nerfed Dead Hard over Mettle of Man or Off the Record or Styptic Agent?
Why not just use any other Exhaustion perk, none of which have charge requirements (beyond being healthy for Overcome) and can all activate every 40 seconds or less with (multiple) Vigils?
Having multiple activation requirements on a perk that isn’t even guaranteed to work in the first place isn’t balanced, nor will it stop those of my fellow killer mains who’ll keep complaining about Dead Hard as long as it exists in any form.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Anyone still mad about this update is hella biased one way or the other. This is about as even handed an update as you could hope for, even if you don't agree with all of it.
As for DH, I thought people were on something when they said the 6.1.0 was a buff, but to say this is a buff? That's just lunacy. The old DH for distance version was by far the strongest version, it was op as hell. Now it's just tedious, and mostly because it's tired, not powerful.
I won't be sad to see it go (and make no mistake, this is about getting it out of the meta, not "balancing" it. And that's fine), but it's not super strong any more.
From the killer side, one aspect of the gen kick meta nerf that I haven't seen discussed much is that it will also kick Nowhere to Hide in its metaphorical balls. It's been pretty prevalent since Knight dropped, but it's use was tied heavily to Overcharge/CoB.
Honestly, both CoH and NtH will be staying on my build, when used together they rarely fail to tell me a survivor was hiding nearby, especially with CoH bypassing the Distortion NtH is blocked by.
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Surveillance requires more attention as it lacks CoB’s audio cue nor goes off for every Good skill check in its duration. Also much like CoB needing to be kicked on, Surveillance needs gens to be regressing, also requiring a kick or remote regression effect. Also Surveillance has no regression buff, which makes it more ‘obsolete’ than CoB.
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It’s so telling to see folks complain about Call of Brine in a way that makes it clear they never cared for it beyond its regression.
A lot of us use it for the Loud Noise Notifications, making it an alternative/companion to the likes of Discordance, which is also able to bypass Distortion where Nowhere To Hide doesn’t and it’s furthermore excellent on Nemmy as LNNs attract zombies, specifically to camp gens in this case.
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To celebrate the One Year Anniversary of this topic, I thought I’d swing back round to share what I’ve learned since then.
Did you know that Luck Offerings aren’t used in DBD tournaments and other competitive settings because they’ve been deemed too powerful? The truth may shock you :o
Elsewhere, do you know how many killer mains have told me that upon seeing a Luck Offering whilst a trial is loading, will promptly DC and uninstall the game, before taking a break of no less than one (1) month away from the game to avoid any negative impact from exposure? Again, the truth may shock you :o
Meanwhile, do you know how many posts I’ve seen complaining about how the Luck mechanic makes the game survivor sided and if something isn’t done about it they’re going to find other parts of the game to complain about… whilst still regularly playing DBD? Now you better believe that the truth may shock you :o
So in the interests of game balance, killer main sanity and player salt, I feel the only recourse is to remove Luck Offerings from the game, whilst offering us a considerable bounty (3% of their current value) for each such offering surrendered by a player.
Furthermore, I feel the Luck bonus should be removed from both Slippery Meat and Up The Ante, just to be on the safe side. Now some of you might ask how it’s remotely fair to leave Adept Ace with a perk that does nothing, to which I’ll break character and counter with “What’s the difference?”
Here’s looking forward to the 2nd Anniversary of this topic where Luck continues to be the worst mechanic in the game and its offerings still nothing more than a bloodweb tax for survivors.
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G'Day, I experienced the same issue with Nemesis
Steam ID: 76561198009709258
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As someone who often runs Bite The Bullet, I prefer Self-Care, just because it gives me stealth healing mid chase if I think I can get away with it.
I’ve actually been pretty successful running an Adept Claudette, with BTB as the fourth perk, since the REmake DLC came out.
Although the upcoming Unbreakable boon totem might see me running a 3 boon build, provided boons don’t see a another significant nerf.