Flatskull
Flatskull
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Too abusable by swf/ comm squads.
The best way to balance ds is to make it an item and potentially buff it. Should of been an item from the start, honestly. I mean what the hell are beings stabbed with. Is the survivor whispering a very nasty insult into the killers ear when we pick them up and it just wrecks our self esteem?
It wouldn't make DS not powerful but it would make it detectable and open to scarcity as using it runs the risk of losing the item. Also franklins demise.
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In order for keys or moris to see realistic changes that won't make the game more empty than it already is. We would need to see big mechanic updates and item additions and changes to what on the maps.
Ideally killers should be rewarded moris for doing their jobs and doing certain things since killers want to actually be the power role and being able to be an actual slasher and not hook boi for daddy spider satan is one of the small ways this is achieved. But the game is so empty that there isn't many ways you can implement mechanically that dosen't neuter it entirely.
Not unless you get rid of all moris and just let killers mori on third hook after everyone been hooked once as base kit. Which would reward killers for playing the long game and focus on getting everyone hooked for the kill so it would shift them from tunneling-as much-
Keys main issue is the same as all items. They can be found on the blood web which makes them not that special to survivors-so they're pretty expendable at their core- and there's no awe in them. Keys also don't really do anything interesting, just allow them to shorten the game or get hatch.
In an ideal DBD: keys could only be found in a either a very dangerous area for a survivor to be in maps. Maybe even in a place with enviromental hazards and the killer has the advantage. And have more interesting effects than it does now. Like, it could be used to turn on certain things in each map.
In terms of what key is: it's at best a tool to annoy the killer and get hatch points. It's essentially a bail out item from the match early. Which seems like an odd thing to put in your game. I get the feeling the key and mori was put in at a time the design where there were a lot more intended offerings and item choices that could blatantly make the game unfair for either side.
but right now it's just blood points and offerings no killer would ever touch so they end up stacking up moris to use-so they get annoying for survivors- and for survivors if they farm BP and even try to go after chests they'll get all the items types you can get and end up farming keys pretty quickly- which is annoying for killers-
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Depending on the killer, especially with the new sort of "black mist" effect in newer maps I legit can lose a survivor that runs past me even though I was looking right at them. If my FPS drops for even a fraction of a second every survivor vanishes and with how osunds are, it's hard to locate them.
It's frankly intolerable.
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Huntress addons need a rework in general entirely. Pig too, honestly and I say that as a pig main. Although not nearly as badly as huntess needs it.
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You should.
But then again a killer shouldn't be blocked by survivors period. It's dumb to look at and dumb to play with. I've been in scenarios back in the old days where a heal team could legit group block a killer thanks to this dumb idea of "the survivor collision wins out against the demon enchanced slasher killer"
A killer actions should over take survivors as well as simply be able to barge through them. The only time a survivor's collision should matter is if they are body blocking a hit.
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Who cares.
DBD dosen't reward you playing well at the game with the exception of a couple more thousand BP. Which offerings -and events- will offset anyway. I tried being good at DBD and getting to rank 1 and even done it.
All I got was alot of stress and being paired up constantly with swf-the worst experience a killer can get besides a comm team- same with MMR. I'd rather let people go and have crappy MMR and keep my games casual than have to sweat against some cocky swf gen rush brigade because I had the audacity to try and play decently for 3 rounds.
You don't get any cosmetics for reaching top ranks. You don't get extra points or shard or a free item or access to some form of prestige perk or whatever. All you get is stress and people Tbagging at you the gate and saying you shouldn't be at rank one because you couldn't out play an unavoidable, chest high unmindgamable loop for 20 seconds while 3 gens pops at the same time.
I'd rather be a bad killer than have such bad games.
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It's true that that survivors will nit pick top tier streamer players making one slight mistake by colliding for the most minimal 0.1 seconds against a hidden bush object or something and then declare that's why the killer deserved to get gen rushed and should play better.
But the dev have been working on all the issues you bought up.
Maps have been made smaller. Loops reduced. More windows boarded up to stop infinites or easy looping. Killers with anti-looping potential such as Death Slinger and PH are also examples of the reaction to this. The devs are listening.
The major problem is that SWF is busted and can't be balanced around and the idea of making the average solo also SWF tier is not fun. No one finds swf fun. They need to go, not rise everyone else to the absolute horrible experience that it is playing with them. The second problem is that the maps are empty and the game becomes very monotonous very fast if you don't have half of the major cast strongest perks unlocked. This is also true for survivors, looping shouldn't of ever become meta. There should of been other stuff on the map that made them have better choices and interesting chases such as more stuff for them to hide in or interact with, but because vaults and pallets are both their bread adn butter...as well as all they got. It would be insane for them to not build their entire game around time wasting with them.
The EGC does nothing. It's just a T-bag timer really.
And the offerings are virtually worthless for killer while survivors can get some uses out of offerings. A killer wants control over the flow of the game more-which is why egc was so loved when it was announced. It was potentially a period in the game where time cuold be on their side but then the 99% issue rose up and now survivor control that too- almost all killer offerings don't do anything to give them control of the match in anyway. If anything some of them are detrimental....split up survivors so they can hammer 4 gens are once....why...get rid of a chest...what for...so they have more reason to do nothing but gen rush?
This is also true for survivor. Most offerings aren't good unless they stack them as swf but at leat some of them can sort of make sense-like mist increase so they can hide better-
The game got issues, sure, the map sizes and time wasting were actually being tackled. Killer is probably the best it's ever been besides from some lack luster, severely underpowered perks for the last few killers and a criminally underpowered hex system-although in this upcoming chapter it looks like they might be finally putting some decent hexes in the pool.
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@cheetocultleader said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1572504#Comment_1572504
Why must y'all continue to drag that poor man's face through the mud? Hes seen enough.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/E3JU0C2RGYYH/quentin.jpg
#JusticeForQuentin
Legit.
I just woke up and this face actually spooked me slightly before I realized what the hell this was. lol.
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I feel you, man.
Grabbing as killer is just the same for me. Utterly broken. It's pure luck if I get it.
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Because SWF bust the game and has always done so. No one likes playing against them. This is universal. Go play in your own lobby in kyf if it's really about playing with your pals and leave the solo's alone.
No one complains about healing yourself, using flash lights or doing gens. You're full of it.
Killers complain mostly about DS because of the locker plays or the unbreakable plus ds combo that basically creates a can't pick them up and can't leave them scenario. I personlaly have nothing against DS.
Instant hatchete huntress is widely condemned by the killer community openly as broken. They've been complaining about her Iri head being silly with the infantry belt combo for ages and she needs an add on update.
Maybe actually look around the forum before you complain about what other people opinions are.
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My suggestion is that you enter with the mindset that you no longer care about rank. The game is very moody and specific about what qualifies as a pip for killer. I've had games where I hook people within seconds and slam gens with insane coordination and power usage but I didn't kill someone so screw me, depip.
Now I play how I like and I decided I don't like serious, stressful games. I enter with the game mind of messing around with my power and trying out weird or blatantly horrible perk set ups. I typically let at least one person go or sometimes two of them. This does two things: it stops you from pipping higher and getting a higher chance of sweaty swf squadies which are unfun and stressful. It helps keep the game atmosphere frinedly and chill.
You unpipped, whatever. You weren't trying your best, you were having fun and typically you'll even out or get a ruthless if you mess about as a killer and expirement most of the time rather than sweating an intense mood. Settle on a rank you're comfortable as and where the games are more chill for you, this is especially more true for MMR. Right now you can choose what type of games you want.
By letting one or two survivors go most of the time the end game chat will grateful and nicer-most of the time- which keeps the mood light. You also can rest easy knowing that you're telling the MMR. I don't want intense sweaty highly competitive rank climbing games.
Rank is an illusion. You get nothing from climbing to it tops anyway.
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DBD as killer is the most stress inducing thing I have ever played with honest to god no exaggeration. I've played fighting games with people who go to tourneys and all that, getting my butt kicked and getting told practice complex combos to not get hopeless bullied over and over again and that was not NEARLY as stress inducing as player killer on DBD.
I don't think anything compares to it: not the barren grind in wow, not getting constantly countered by hakumen or having "INFERNO DIVIDER" break out of my sure combo, or losing all my progress in enter the gungeon. Nothing beats its. I wouldn't be surprised if this game as killer actually shaved years off my life from the blood pressure alone.
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@Nickeh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1555238#Comment_1555238
So if swf existing means all survivors must have the game be 2x-3x times as hard (regardless if they're solo or swf) , does removing swf mean we can nerf killers to be 2x-3x less effective? o.o
Survivor main here, before that annoying debate starts.. but one who has found way more enjoyment out of playing killer lately because of how easy it is.
That is the answer: swf has always busted the game and as long as it is intermingled normally with standard solos there is no way the game be balanced. No solo can be buffed to match a swf because a swf knowledge is comes at them knowing how each other function, group tactics-even by expectation such as higher altruism plays and stacking perks around that by default- stacking and being able to plan and coordiante builds and offerings before even getting into a game.
Totem counters is a dumb idea. The best way to fix the game isn't to nullify the enigmatic plays of either side-survivor or killer- which a massive part of the game is based on and also the only part that has any remote horror atmosphere to it. There's a reason meyers is one of the few actually scary killers in game. It's to RESTORE the enigma, not reduce it. Just like killers have no idea what type of item someone is holding, a survivor shouldn't have a clear idea what amount of totems there are-unless totem counters are a perk which is fair-
Here's how to actually fix the game:
SWF now are in their own lobby search much like KYF. If either is lacking a killer or survivor these will be one joint search system that will match them up. KYF has some balance for this already since all killers in this mode have access to all offerings, addon types and perks. That help balance it out, since the killer can make competitive and powerful builds without punishment against a swf squadie. They can also all talk to each other so they can make it clear if they want a more easier, casual game.
Make it so the gens don't determine when the gates open, but each completed gen increases the "bar speed" to the gates are powered. It reduces the survivors need to gen rush like crazy and allow more avoidant/stealth builds to become viable-which also means it easier for them focus on totems or avoiding the killer/totem effects- it also decreases the stress of gen rushing, so killers don't just patrol 3 gens or so and focus on kill rushing. The biggest cause of sweat on both sides is that if gens are popping you feel like you are buggered and for survs if gens aren't popping you are buggered.
It would allow both sides to slow down slightly and plan stuff rather than missing one step in the wrong direction and realizing that's 2 gens or so that will or will not be popped.
It also stops survivors from basically becoming screwed and just waiting for the last survivor to die so they can camp or search for hatch other than altruism blood points.
Study killers and survivors rates with this new flow but most importantly, study their shared enjoyement of the game. Most killers make it clear that kills are fine but the sweat nature and swf are not fun and stressful: 4k or not. Then make changes accordingly. Be it buffs or nerfs on either side.
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@Flawless_ said:
inb4 I'm all in for strong killer perks but I, for one, feel like certain combos are straight OP at the moment.
also inb4 this is not against the Ruin change specifically, but rather how Undying combos will negatively affect the amount of fun in the game. As a survivor because it has the potential to be extremely oppressive. AS a killer, because it is completely rng based so essentially if they find Undying first you lost your build and possibly the game.
So basically the devs did a full 180 on the fun premise and made totems twice as hard to find. It's already a pain in the neck when these potato teammates can't find Ruin (or any other hex totem) once, and now you expect people to do it 2, maybe 3 times?? RIP solo queue, now on half of the games no gens will ever get done and when they do 3 people will be on death hook. Expect more DCs and people killing themselves once Devour Hope kicks in. More braindead NOED killers? Woohoo sounds like a blast. How is that fun in any way especially for solo players?
I honestly don't understand Behaviour's logic with these new perks. Yeah they're really strong, great but at what cost? Hopefully they'll balance things out once the new chapter goes live unless they want their player numbers to keep nosediving like they did this month.
Funny enough.
These perks are actually functioning like HEX perks are MEANT to function as. There's a reason almost no hexes get used in any game besides DH and Haunted Grounds up to now because they all SUCKED. Even ruin was meh for a hex. These hexes are actually OP and there go justifiable as cleansable totem types since the entire point of the gimmick is that you risk counterability for an absolute power spree in that department.
I hope they take this design philosophy and return to older, eternally unused and worthless hexes and apply it to them too although undying seems to make hex thrill of the hunt sort of redunant except for that small speed slow down.
But, what you said is still true. Sadly because SWF won't properly get punished for playing something that by default obliterate balance this cannot be fixed. There isn't some mythical middle line between OP like hexes should be and fair to solos while swf are in the equation. It's just another reason that the SWF need to be anwered by either being cut apart from the main survivors and killer queues or put specifically in their own private lobby-like KYF is- once that is done we can start actually modifying aspects of the game with solos in mind and giving them better perks and base kits.
I would suggest devs: deal with the swf by making them create their own lobby. If it's all about having fun with friends then it's no big deal, maybe have some sort of connection between KFY so any incomplete teams can search for each other and form a bigger lobby where people rotate killer based on wins or loses sort of like a fighting game lobby.
Then dramatically up the points given by lit totem destructions. I would also suggest that lit totem powers all be made as powerful as these BUT...all totems have a grace period of power up. They talked about having a start game stall so maybe in this period totems can cause a sort of mild wider radius ambient effect, as if their evil is warping reality while a big hex bar fills up.
Then the hex totems randomize again and lit up at different places. It would give solos a chance to find them in these small maps and make it clear to them that this is just as important as gens. It would also give them some anxiety and alert that hexes are in play. In a way that I think would be better than the cursed notifer, which I think should be removed.
I don't know if survivor should have a hex counter the entire game but if we had a hex power up period like I said maybe there can be a hex counter there. With each hex powering up the bar to their to activation quicker. Doubling the mentality to go after them.
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Bait thread.
Don't bite, guys. Come on.
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Oh, god yes.
I would play as frankenstein, wolfman, dracula or the beast from the swamp all the time. I love cheesy classic halloweeny characters. Maybe even add the blob in there. I know all the models have to be humanoid but considering the blob is literally just a big ball of ooze I could sort of see his model actually getting made.
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The reality is that SWF busts the game and sends balance all out of whack. No one is at fault for this but the devs, they've had YEARS to try solutions to this and they haven't even though both solo survivors-and all killers being innately solo- let it be known how horrible of an experience they are.
but hey....instead of fixing the elephant in the room or putting more stuff in the game or getting new items or making offerings worth a damn....we get new skins and DLC. Oh, and billy gets touched for some reaso ndespite base kit wise being the very picture of a balanced but fun killer.
@Artick said:
Well the same people scream their lungs out every single time someone proposes a change to give solo the same kind of info as swf. So the whole argument is "buff solos but not really then buff killers so much".
Want examples? People keep asking for a totem counter on the hud and killer mains keep saying "nah bruh it's so easy to cleanse all the totems in solo q". SWF already has a totem counter built in, you can ask your team how many totems everyone cleansed, then you know how many are left. So why don't give solos a totem counter?
Want more examples? Kindred basekit. In SWF you can talk and decide who goes for the unhook and who remains on the gen, in solos you can't do that. When devs wanted to make Kindred basekit people lost their mind. So yea, buff solos but not really.
Why would killers want solos to be like swf when they repeatedly make it clear they hate SWF. The correct answer is of course to actually segregate swf. People should be punished and have the difflculty of the game raised for a setting that actively gives them benefits over other players, comms or not.
Totem counters is only really needed for NOED which is an end game clutch. The curse effect-which really shouldn't be in the game since you're meant to lack info...not have it innately...which is why SWF is so OP- lets you know if any active totems are in effect.
Should NOED be changed...eh...as killer I wouldn't mind although I think the end game should be changed entirely from what it is. It's basically worthless as it is now and NOED is the new bandaide to making it in anyway tense...but it's also understantably annoying for survivors to have a perk designed entirely around taking that escape from them with a TPW potential ontop of it.
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@Olokun said:
it s the 9872106875120387512387541216876873512418721 killer complain thread here and i must forgot some others
It's almost like the consistent solo player who has to manage 4 people at once is accutely aware of the minor issues and things of the game because they can and do legit cost them chases which in turn costs them gens and thus cost them the game.
I mean...I agree. It's long worn out but there should of been a big mondo update to deal with all these little bugs and weird little "sort of shouldn't be as is" issues years ago.
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Working of the most true to the term definition of camping-staying at one spot for long periods of time, typically a hook- I don't camp personally, most of the time when I am accused of camping I got confused by a perk or was sure I kept seeing someone when I was about to leave.
I used to camp when I was a newer killer and I only did it purely because of two things: frustration out of being bullied by SWF and a sense futility against them-keep in mind back then it was actually viable for every swf to carry botany and just group body block you in one spot and you wouldn't be able to damage them in time to escape-
or sheer confused sense of pressure from gens popping. It's fine when you get more experience because you start to percieve gens more as an illusions, all gens can get done and you can still curb stomp even a good group. Gen progression only tends to get very alarming once you're down to1 or 2 and you're still very far behind or haven't even gotten one chase.
but the game makes every gen pop a big event and heavily nudges you to get a move on every time one is done so when I was new while the game is telling me "PROTECT GENS!" but also saying "lol. Oh those 3 gens popped in one chase. Such is life" you end up just spinning around and going...alright....whatever....at least I can secure one kill because I obviously ain't stopping these gens without max getting two hooks.
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Basically.
Killers like to go zoom zoom because the game is time sensitive and STBL is one of the few perks that allows killer to dramatically decrease the periods where they can't go zoom during a zoom important moment-after hiting a survivor so you can persue a down- it's also one of the few perks that can still benefit off nullified hits granted by survivor perks like burrowed time or mettle of man.
It's condition is also simple and something you're going to do anyway, on top of this it makes you wan to avoid the obsession who most likely has DS a good chunk of the time. Unlike play with your food which needs you to specifically find the obsession...then give up chases over and over to get real use of it.
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I feel like I am at an office party and some long term ironic joke is being spun around me right now but no one is letting the mask slip even a little bit so I'm just drinking in the corner wondering what to say.
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Lol. What.
Devour Hope is the only hex we have that actually is in somewhat balanced. You have to actually play the game to get anything out of it and it promotes you leaving the hook, even boosting you with a haste to do so and it's a hex totem so it can be permanently disabled at any time and most of the time will be disabled. It hasa notable impact on survivors when its charged and it's deadly-as it should be...as ALL hexes should be since they are meant to be OP by definition but capable of being countered by being cleansed-
What other hexes are killers going to use....huntress lullabye....Retribution....Thrill of the Hunt /s I mean. Ruin is at best B tier, Noed is an very last moment clutch hex and those are really the only two decent usable hexes in the whole game besides DH.
I mean...using the logic that returning to a hook for a down-which you should be doing anyway...why would a killer NOT return to a hook when they think someone is going for-or just have saved- you must REALLY hate Make Your Choice, since that is literally it's entire gimmick. In fact it's worst than DH because it isn't a hex so it can't be countered...it requires no tokens for the exposed effect and most importantly the exposed effect is timed...meaning the best way to capitalize on it is to literally skirt the radius then return to the hook to capitalize on it.
So if anything. Make Your Choice would be the scummiest perk if hook orbiting is considering scummy. I mean, I don't consider either of these scummy.
I would consider the scummy killer perks to be: Insidous, Noed and maybe rancor. Just because two of them can snatch away a survivors escape points and Insidous since it heavily incentivizes camping primarily.
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I uninstalled after two games. Between the constant fps drop-I'm on pc- AND having to squin at the auras I actually ended up feeling sort sick after my games. Which is odd becaus I typically don't feel sick, not even in VR. DBD is the first game to achieve this for me.
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It's fair for the survivors to use what they have. That is to say, it would be unfair to punish the survivors for working with the rules of the game has set.
It is unfair but it's an unfairness in design and not on the players. The end game collapse PRESENTS itself as some big count down where thee survivors are under pressure to get out but the devs buggered it up and basically defanged into 'T-Bag at the gate timer' weither you actually tbag at the gate is optional. It's what it's become.
It has all these bells and whistles graphically with this looming count down BUT...survivors dictate when the count down starts and the count down only starts when the safest zone in the game is opened up. It had the potential to be a great end game mechanic where survivors have to actually act with urgency and don't have absolute control of time, letting the killer go on the offensive-as they should since there is no gens left- without having to worry about defending gens.
There's a big joke about "the end game" such as "end game totems" or really the concept. There is no end game. The EGC could of given both sides an ACTUAL end game period where the tone of the game shifts. Where survivors no longer dictate the clock of the game-the biggest power and the most stressful to be under...which is why killers regularly complain about gen popping as unfun and stressful- but nope...
It only activates when the safest zone you can damage boosts into is open. Even more so, since maps are smaller-which is a good thing but just another example of how EGC does literally nothing but limit how long you can linger at the gate despite all its bells and whistles pretending it some big, threatening doom clock- and survivors dictate when that zone can be opened.
and the cherry on top. They can 99%
poor design ontop of poor design. Wasted chance after wasted chance.
When the EGC was new it was fun because it added actual end game urgency. I didn't care if I lose the survivors because a survivor in a chase with me, running from an raging oni and barly scraping a miss one shot as the end game bell dinged into the exit gate was AWESOME. It felt actually stressful and cinematic. I fel like an actual slasher killer who had time on my side for that brief moment in the game.
and then survivors realized how utterly toothless EGC was and just 99% the gates. I don't blame them. Opening the gate instead of prepping it puts all survivors on the back foot and can cause a altrusim cascade of death.
Right now thanks to this not only has blood warden been pretty much destroyed. It's more or less left NOED as the only true end game perk and mechanic. I mean...remember too...I guess...but...it's so mediocre I don't think it ever stopped someone getting away unless they were the last person and I got lucky.
Unless you count 3 gening as end game but 3 gening pretty much truly equates to-did the survivors mess up and give you perfect 3 gen defensive or is one gen far enough to gen rush even if you pop it-
And opening the gate yourself is a concession unless you have noed. Opening the gate yoursell after you down someone to hook them for blood warden is basically just a big, long winded "hey I got bloodwarden" dance to survivors.
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@MegaWaffle said:
I get you're claiming "satire" but how is a in-game visual that doesn't affect cosmetics a gimmick to make cash?
Playing Devils Advocate, here but if you are going to take a jab at BHVR for being greedy it needs to at least make sense.
Otherway round.
He's saying that BHR consistently has had poor direction. Not updating core game issues-like swf which has been an toxic issue brewing since they refuse to do anything about it- items, offerings and map based stuff hasn't had any extentions despites us being whatever chapters and killers in. We got walls though...
The point is the color blind thing would of been a nice thing to do if they cared about their players to make it accessable to people who want to play, but consistently they pick producing stuff they can sell constantly over anything else. This game has been desperately needing many bug fixes, QOL updates and especially having all those fields get actual extentions. But you can't sell a new map interactable or item to collect as dlc-and you shouldn-t so instead the maps remain barren and we get another gimmick skin or killer.
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There's nothing wrong with moris and there's nothing wrong with keys.
The problem is the devs direction are all over the place. The game is built up like it's a survivial game where you got to plan and get away from the killer but there is virtually nothing on the maps besides loops and pallets considerably reducing fear as meta-game run around the same object style comes out on top.
The blood web is set up to get more items and addons but the number of items and addons haven't been added too for a long time so really after a certain point all you are doing is stacking and rarity has little impact-as survivor-. More so now that survivors don't lose an item at zero charge. Which is fine but it further reduces the horror trope of strict resources and having to use what you can or YOU personally will go without something you spent points or looted.
Offerings are the same. They're meant to be a hidden ace in the hole that changes the outcome of the match in some way but almost all offerings for killers are utterly worthless and not worth taking. This is amplified by point booster offerings and their common occurence which has turned that precious single slot into a meta-more blood point grind tool. This means the only offerings you got that are worth a damn...that have any real effect for you as killer are moris....or blood point boosters. What...you gonna play a shroud of seperation so your targets can split up and gen pressure while you have to chase one?...nope.
The game is meant to have all these sort of hidden choices: from addons, to other players, to builds, to hidden killers and even not exactly knowing what type of item the killer is looking at until they feel its effect. Yet SWF directly contradict this set up because you can prep and know exactly who is going to run what, coordinate and understand who is what, why and get how they play while in NORMAL matches.
The game is directionally all over the place and almost none of these issues are resolved or even really addressed by the devs. It's one of the reason SWF is a toxic mine field from both sides whenever anyone mentions it.
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Locking the killer allows the matching system to take into consideration what killer you are using, your hours played, skill and so on when searching for lobby. In theory it should reduce-over time- stuff like someone who never played nurse being paired with high rank swf.
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There is no unfair discussian about SWF except for survivors screaming bad players like clouds passing in a storm. It gets mocked and belittled because it's busted, even without comms and rightfully so. It punishes all solos, both survivor and killer. SWF should be punished. A person who plays by themselves shouldn't be punished for doing so. Actively going out of your way to team up and fudge who is on your team-an actual tactical advantage with how the game is structure around player choices creating unknowns and uncertanity- is an advantage.
But yes. Possible changes are:
SWF cannot gen rush. When all gens are fixed the gate cannot be opened until a set time later. Controlling when the gate can be open is am assive power in the hands of survivors and it's balanced out by the fact that their teams at solo are unreliable. This is not the case for SWF, they also play more altruistically so changing the game up to make them focus on survivial and helping each other out than just gen stacking is preferable.
or
SWF alternate what type of persk are being used by the killer for each person in the swf group. Creating a swf tiers within them that are substantially stronger. Giving the killer who has to solo a coordinated team-even if they don't have comms they are way more in sync and can still stack builds, offerings, addons and items for max effect- if they get a buff from being swf. So should he killer. Solo's shouldn't be punished because you want to play with friends.
or
SWF is in its own slot and it's own line up: what...killers won't hardly ever play against them?! It's almost like SWF are intolerable and sweaty and just not fun for anyone who on the recieving end. Even other survivors. Well, good. It will weed out the toxic SWF who go in sweaty and to be annoying. The only ones that might get people coming back for more games are those that ACTUALLY are just playing casually for fun with their friends and are generally good sports.
If there is any big flaw with this one is that a lot of killers with a grudge will probably come in and sweat toxicity to actual friendly or alright SWF'er for all those flashbacks they have to their own poor swf experience-which is nearly all of them-
or
SWF is simply removed from normal games and can only be hold in their own lobbies like KYF is. That way SWF can still play together and killers ain't got to deal with them.
or
SWF always face killers 2 or 3 ranks higher than their strongest player. If you're going to team up at least go against someone who thereotically-if the mmr worked- has more experience, perks and understanding of their killer to take you on without having to sweat to extreme levels.
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I uninstalled it.
The FPS and the auras were actually making my eyes hurt after two matches. I was starting to feel actually sick.
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After this update I reinstalled. Played two matches.
Then uninstalled because even on PC between the auras and the weird FPS my eyes couldn't take it. I don't typically get head games from either weird or wonky visuals in game. I've played VR without getting mindgrain as quickly as most but something about the way it is on DBD was legit making my eyes hurt and head feel weird.
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I reinstalled the game to try the update.
Had one match-on pc- and between the horrible, twitchy FPS and the weird barely visible auras my eyes legit started to hurt. No joke.
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Yes: 100%
Survivors need a major update to stuff they can do on the map but more interactables on the maps would be a boon to survivors and killers. It would be a boon to killers because it means we can dillute pallets, not with the intent to nerf survivors but to actually add variety and spice to chases besides "stun and stop" method which dramatically halts and slows down the flow and thrill for both sides. The fact stun and stopping are the two big things in play is why loops are meta.
Survivors need more tools, more offerings and more hiding places and I say this as a killer main all the way through but I would be actually happy to see survivors get more chase tools that do things besides just either stun or put a big block in my way. Things like doors that killers can break through for a very small slow down-and breakingl ine of sight for jukes- or sheets that can obscure a killers vision for a fraction of a second.
There are alot of enviromental stuff that survivors could trigger or activate that would be a hinderance to the killer and not them simply because of how their FOVs work for each side.
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Mostly during the 4th anniversary event.
I'd let one survivor go at the end-sometimes two since rank means nothing and I got insane BP anyway- and lead them to the hatch and crowns. They were always extremely grateful for being allowed to get the crown and leave.
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Personally I feel the opposite.
Items should be only be able to be found in chest. All items. It would give survivors a reason to do something besides gen rushing and actually make them feel like they're earning loot when taking a risk. Right now there's really no reason for most survivor to go chest hunting if they're paitent or just like opening chests because they can get it from the blood web anyway.
Kind of takes out a lot of the fun of taking something valuable from the game and any sense of it's rarity or mystique. It would also mean that the cut coin and coin offerings from either side would have actual significant impact on the game rather than just wasting an offering slot .Especially for killer who basically gives the survivors more reason to only gen rush.
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The games offerings aren't meant to be balanced. The idea is that they're meant to be shift the tides of the game to either side.
The problem mostly with offerings and by extension moris is that there is really no reason to waste your offering slot for anything but a red mori or blood point booster when ideally offerings should have actual changes to the game. Like hazards or overall map effects.
At worst mori's need a change so they alternate how the game mode is played and grant buffs to both sides. At best they need other supplementing offering types that make it so killers have no reason to stack up red moris for weeks while they BP boost and then use them up in a killer spree so they feel over saturated in the web.
Offerings, much like items and actual map interactables is criminally neglected and have not been expanded upon or tweaked for a long time. I don't think as killer I have EVER used a branch...a mist add or decreaser...a cut coin...a shroud of any form and I rarely if ever use green or yellow moris either. Hell...I think I've only used the game as a map offering ever.
Mostly because having chests is better for me since it gives survivors something else to do but gen rush. The hook distance is rarely ever an issue even with stacks, splitting up or uniting survivors dosen't decrease by gen pressure and mists well...I have a big red light coming from my character...it's not really helping hiding my dude.
Survivors have the same issue. It's mostly a BP spot but at least they can sort of get something out of some of these offerings a clear cut advantage. But still...you know...why waste it instead of more BP nine times out of ten.
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Fixing legion to be fun would be the best way to execute this.
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DBD has a lot of flaws but the base game is well done. It gives you a feeling of a chase and some level of real adrenaline focus. It's a sweaty game and I hate for that...but I also sort of love the sweat because it kind of adds to the idea that another actual human being is trying to escape a killer.
It's worst offense is the lack of stuff on maps, monotony and meta game aspects that break this illusion-namely loops- and overlooked or ignored fundamental game problems.
Once you get to the expiremental stage though DBD can be fun utilizing weird or new perk builds as your mains.
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@stikyard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1473710#Comment_1473710
I thought we hung around at the open gate to milk extra heals and offer the killer free swings for points... 🙄
Don't milk it on my time. The game is over, you won, have some class and leave. If I wanted to farm with you we would of been doing it in match, not at your victory lap. This is like me knocking you down, picking you up, waiting you to get off, then hitting you again and repeating the process. Don't drag it out.
If you have never gone "OH GEE WOW, thanks for those struggling points. That wasn't prolong or annoying at all at my defeat, mr killer" then you understand why most killers realistically aren't thankful for gate hovering and tbaging.
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I know this won't fix a lot of dumb toxic stuff but they should really rework the end game collapse.
It's not fun for survivors to be stuck in this crap and it's not fun for the killer to see people on a Tbag timer at the gate. It should be more final and quick. Survivors have the entire match to do whatever they're going to do and killers shouldn't be pay able to drag out scenarios like this or at least wouldn't be able to do so longer.
I hate this stuff. It's annoying to have swf loling it up at the safety gate and it's annoying for survivors to be just waiting to die. It's almost annoying as wraith standing invisible next to a hook waiting for a save entire match. Almost.
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Now it's time to watch the SWF screech bad killers like crows being disturbed.
wait, it already happened.
You're cheaters. The game was never balanced around it, comfort yourself in disgraced tears over it with your pals as you T-bag at the gate to sooth your dignity over your cheapened victory. If you can even call it that. The entire point of the game is ambiguity and hidden player choices...literally inviting people you know and can organise with deletes like half...or more of that hidden knowledge and even more if they have comms and tell each other stuff.
The killer is hidden because their enigma is meant to be the ace in their hole and provide some level of tension and adaption to survivors, just like survivors perks are meant to be hidden from the killer because they got to observe and keep in mind who seems to have what perks and how they will play. Either side in a balance game that ignore either wouldn't do very well for long.
SWF was always broken and will always be broken and the escape rates are mostly because SWF are very well aware they will curb stomp most killers so they lol it up with potatoing and memeing around. No single player, even if they're the power role should have to deal with a preset, prebuilt, fudged team of players in any condition, EVEN if it resulted in 4K because killers keep makingi t clear...THEY...ARE...NOT...FUN...
SWF should of been its own mode with changed rules, objectives, rewards and abilities afforded to each side but the devs for some reason find adding a funny roar to billy charge more important than fixing the elephant in the room that's been in the game for literally years.
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The forum is "killer biased" because the forums is a place to vocally provide input to the game and killers have had the most frustrations and bull to complain about to the devs for the longests time and while killer is not nearly as bad is it used to be for some reason when the devs do mess up 9 times out of 10 they ended doing so by ruining either a killer or providing some sort of indirect buff or power to survivors.
be that via horrible multilating perks-our hexes are still battered and untouched. NOED and DH are the only strongs ones-
Weird game mechanic changing-remember when survivors could stun a killer with a blind while picking up a survivor but it would only kick in after the animation played out-
Being blatantly survivor sided in their decisions - remember when killers were told everything is fine and we should play civilization while mathieu himself got bullied by SWF on stream-
Or ruin changes...or even recently...billy changes.
The forum is killer sided because killers have the most to complain about and getting more to complain about. Hell, even the end game collapse which was meant to be a pressure pot for survivors basically ended up being left as a "T bag at the gate" simulator and can STILL be 99%
The past where survivors were insanely OP and basically went out of their way to bully killers every game dosen't help either. To be fair, most of those survivors probably left but I still see survivors defending SWF-with or without comms it's borken. Literally the game is meant to work on uncertanity-
In the end the forums will be mostly made of killers complaining because killers have to basically carry a match on themselves so any small details changed dramatically effect them. If a map is big killers feel it more because they have to solo pressure, if there is wonky collission their characters are typically bigger and slow down due to it, if their powers or addons are touched the time sensitive nature of the game...especially against SWF make even seconds huge differences even at lower levels of skill.
If a survivor is in a bad game they can just use a second chance perk or give up on hook. All the while 3 guys are still doing gens.
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The perks are horrible because we got so many now any decent perk has a real chance to stack or create serious bad boy builds. The devs know the game has too many perks now and we should of been getting massive enviromental updates: items, interactables, hiding spots, hazards, killer interactables.
but they need them DLC out and with them expected perks since teachables are a thing so they slap so underwhelming if not outright busted perks on them and send them out. It's annoying because killers have TWO gimmicks meant to bloody balance powerful perks.
Obsession: which would of been a better build for PH lore wise and feeling wise too really, especially since his secondary attack dosen't stack certain obsession triggers on hit.
Hex: a woefully underused balanced gimmick that's meant to allow us to have OP perks but at the risk of survivor agency getting rid of them-or horrible spawning spots- but they refuse to gives us even good hex perks. Almost all of them are god awful.
A good killer with good killer perks was Michal Meyers: Powerful perks, all focused and revolved around obsession mechanics as a way to make them change how the killer players and balance it out somewhat.
Forced Penance should of been something like: You become obsessed. When someone takes a protection hit or heals the obsession they suffer reduced healing and become exthausted.
or something. I dunno.
Cruel limits is a big joke because while it personally has one of the cooler ideas: activating with a chase effecting trigger at gen completion...in theory allowing a killer to go with gen flow than sweat gen defense for once. The devs forgot that all their gen placements also have pallets next to them most of the time. So, you basically got to hope that a vault is near AND for some reason a survivor uses it.
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Thank god.
Loops were the most boring part of the game for me as killer and the most predictable ,especially since a lot of loops are simply unmind gamable - namel chest high walls- they gave the survivors a massive and easy way to extend the chase time with very little effort and while I respect to a certain extent that gitting gud at loops to a level against competent killers takes...some...skill.
I refuse to believe anyone out of absolute sweaty try hards find looping fun. If you like that, got to garrymods, put down a box and loop a zombie AI for eternity. You're welcome.
That's not to say looping dosen't have it place nor there aren't specific conditions it CAN be fun but that mostly a resuilt of a magical match of equally skilled survivor and killer facing off with both enjoying a stand still moment of "who will win" and not the standard looping experience.
That and looping is absolutely meta-game bull and takes away all fear, adrenaline and sense of urgency from both sides. I've always said survivors should get more interactables, more hiding spots and mot items since their base mechanics are designed around alertness and spatial planning-360 camera- but the maps are so empty loops,vaults and pallets are thier only real choice.
I don't blame loops for becoming meta-it's the devs fault for not giving survivors anything but bloody perks and standard items despite it being how many chapters in- and I hope survivors get a plethor of buffs and items that help them fight the killer in other ways than baiting a chase and running a chest high wall for 2 minutes mindlessly.
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Yep.
But hey.
you know...like...you're just bad man...even though survivors complain about boosted red ranks and bad match making constantly, also apparently chunks after chunks of survivors are sweaty SWF skill level despite all that, so you must just be ASSUMING they are SWF. What...they were oddly in sync, insanely altruistic, used stacking/synergizing team builds and items and all bought their best gear. Well, that's just called gitting gud as survivor man.
Clearly...YOU...are the bad player and blaming everything in swf.
/end sarcasm.
SWF have been a problem forever. They'll stay a problem. They break the game. Anyone who is solo and not a sweaty SWF themselves know it, even solo survivors got to suffer them and end up getting squeezed by killers grinded into insanely higher skill levels due to the horrible SWF plague but BHR refuse to touch them.
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Genrushing is when survivors solely focus on getting as many gens done as possible.
The action is not toxic in and of itself. But it's seen as VERY sweaty and in par with a killer tunneling a survivor over and over to get them out of the game. In specific conditions both of these plays are a legit tactic. If a killer is stacking loads of slow down perks and using them well then gen rushing may be your only legit counter. Same with killers and going against an OOO...they have to assume that OOO has comms because if they don't and they do they will get slapped.
Genrushing...like tunneling...is a problem with the game. It shouldn't be possible and you're normally get the ire of either side for doing it. The major problem killers have with genrushing is when it comes to SWF-once again seen as bad by almost all killers and most solos- since they will...even without comms typically either meme around or immedaite sweat out a gen rush so fast 3 to 4 gens will pop before one chase is over.
It's not fun and once you start doing it you can't complain that the other side got serious, mad and sweaty themselves. Same with tunneling.
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What I want: SWF are using a mechanic that defeats the enigmatic relationship a lot of the game builds itself around for both killers and survivors. They should face against a considerably higher "rating" multiplied for each SWF in group.
What most likely will happen: SWF will be treated like their normal solos or...they'll just use the highest ranking survivor.
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Pig is in this weird CRACK where she's potentially insanely powerful and also insanely counterable. This is because certain addons actually make it impossible to check all the jigsaw boxes so if you have bad RNG those survivors are dead. Also she can body block a jigsaw box.
What she needs-as a pig main-
Massive Addon rework. There's no reason to have status effects while a trap is on someone head, it's not fun for the survivor and the traps are at their best when making survivors slow down their gen rush to get the trap itself off. So if there ARE going to be status effects they should trigger when the trap is taken off for a period of time.
Rule set no 2 needs to go...it's legit one of the worse reds in the game. It's worse than oni red seal, which is god awful. It has a VERY limited window to be of any use and will basically do nothing in a gen rush scenario. It just wastes a perk slot. It SHOULD change entirely how the traps work...or better yet actually change the trap itself. To something like giving survs the power to injury each other with a healing animation. Sort of like those jigsaw traps where the key is hidden inside another victim and they got to find and guess which one.
or something. I dunno. anything really...rule set no 2 is so bad that really any change would be an improvement.
Combat straps is legit one of pigs best addons, especially when paired with amanda's letter. Making it base kit would probably nudge her up the tier list more than you realize. Right now she can move and enter a crouching animation at the same time. I don't think it needs a buff. It does it job fine.
Pig dosen't need a crouch movement speed increase. If you want to confuse people and remain somewhat stealthy just enter and exit crouching constantly. It confuses even high level swf players, especially when paired with other TR perks. her crouching is fine, the only buff she needs to it is the ability to grab survivors while crouching. The new maps means it's feasible for piggy to traverse the map in stealth although you may need gen slow down perks.
She needs to have her jigsaw boxes mechanically changed to be more engaging and she needs her skill checks to be affected by either new or reworked addons as well as certain perks. There are so few perks that deal with skill checks for killers that apply to her traps and outside of huntresses lullabye at max level they won't do much-and reallly...when does HL get to even level 4 before being cleansed-
Pig is one of the most versatile killers in the game who can actually take back SOME control of the gen rush from survivors if you can get those downs but her addons don't affect the things that matter enough with most of them frankly being worthless. The jigsaw boxes themselves don't have much of a penalty to failing them which should also be fixed with something more interesting.
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The best remedy for any lack of agency for survivors...
is for BHR to actually fill the game with things for them to interact. You're not meant to neccessarily have good counterplay or agency against a killer when you are in their headlights because they're a bloody killer.
Problem is when as a survivor hiding or looping don't work there's nothing else on the map and no unique items to use outside of the standard set and some variants there of, so once your tool box of tricks is used up any killer you find "boring" seems predictably hard to do anything against even though those same killers get absolutely slapped against swf competent survivors like normal.
Spirit would be more interesting if there were more hiding places and items that create sounds or distract her. Like if you could drop a radio that produces a consistent noise notification-andrecorded sounds nearby like survivor moans- Freddy would be more interesting if you could maybe use an item to purposefully injur yourself-and there go activate all injury based perks...AND wake up..without having to run no mither but giving up a item slot-
you know all kind of ideas. Throw in some things like enviromental hazards and it dosen't matter if a huntress has an iri head because you could...I don't know...purosefully create a enviromental hazard to YOU-a fire- but that same fire blocks an area and forces said huntress aflame when she passes, revealing her aura. So you can make more decent plays.
I dunno.
Killers generally are fine...they all have a gimmick...some need balancing one way or the other but their gimmicks are fine...it's just their gimmicks in a game with no applicable offerings, items and just loop/vault/closet and pallet maps gets old fast. You can feel caged in very, very quickly.
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The biggest struggle in this game is the feeling of agency. It's a big part of why skill ceilings and skill floors matter so much. You can raise the skill floor of any killer but if their skill ceiling isn't high enough most people will regard it as feeling like you lack agency...which is a bad spot to be in design wise for a role that's meant to be all about being in power.
2D chance perks reduce the agency the killer has unless they play in a scummy manner which typically isn't fun for the killer nor the survivors. Personally, I don't care. I normally let a survivor lie on the ground for a good 30 seconds or so while I check the area, hit people or set up traps and by the time I decide to go back to a player most of their second chance perks aren't in effect.
Burrowed time I don't care about since it mostly counters reckless saves for the guy who deserve to suffer for it least-the poor guy off the hook-
If there's any perk I hate...it's head on...janky hit box...you can't really do ANYTHING about it because most competent survivors can leave it down to the very last second and will never be baited and 2 loops and it backs in action.
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Biat thread.
It opens up with a negative implication to half the player base "Oh...why are YOU...so mad, killers" then does absolutely nothing to elaborate what perks he's talking about. For all we know he thinks he got tunneled because he used small game against trapper or something.
If you're going to flood the board with such crappy discussian attempts at least open up with some minor amount of effort. But of course, a discussian was never the point of this post. It was to leave confused people who took the bait aimlessly trying to figure out what you were getting at.
GG. Git gud. Enjoy crying in your sleep because you feel you were tunneled by freddy or something because you run ooo or whatever.