New perk "Celestial Witness" combined with "Nemesis" is unhealthy for DbD
Celestial Witness:
Every 30 seconds, if the Obsession is 40 metres away from you, you see their aura for 2/2.5/3 seconds. Otherwise, the farthest Survivor becomes the Obsession.
Nemesis:
Whenever a Survivor becomes the Obsession:
- The gain Oblivious for 60s.
- You see their Aura for 8s.
If you combine both perks at least one survivor will be Oblivious for nearly the whole match (60 seconds everytime you become the Obsession) and you have free aura reading (should always be linked to a condition like kicking a gen → Nowhere to Hide, hooking a survivor → BBQ etc.) on them as well. That's kinda OP.
8k hours veteran who plays both sides speaking before someone calls me "a survivor main crybaby". I'm usually more on killer's side.
Comments
I don't think this is all that problematic. Partially because it's always the furthest survivor. Oblivious isn't that awful a status to be cycling that often - it's actually pretty easy to get huge spans of undetectable and/or oblivious. Trail of Torment, by example, can last a very long time and can be cycled endlessly.
This won't keep a single survivor endlessly oblivious, but will cycle it and leave a survivor (cycling) oblivious in increments. I don't think this is an issue, but it is a strong synergy admittedly as I have run it.
The reason I don't find it to be an issue is, that's 50% of your perk slots locked up for constant oblivious and triggered aura read. I could have gotten similar, if not better results by running Trail of Torment and Deerstalker, or a number of other combinations. Again, **is it strong**? Sure. But I don't know that it's 50% of your perks strong in a meta where Killers tend to run three to four slowdown perks to limit generator speed. If we want them to stop running four gen slowdown, we're going to need synergy combos like this to lure them away from the practice.
Admittedly I prefer [Lethal Pursuer] [Deerstalker] [Nurses Calling] [Trail of Torment] as a combo I often use, as obsession can be tricky. I run an obsession build with [Nemesis] and it performs at strong value for me, but I won't be changing out any of the perks in that build for Celestial Witness as I get equal of not greater results already from that build. The build in question being [Nemesis] [Furtive Chase] [Friend's 'Til the End] [Play With Your Food].
I get your point but Trail of Torment is counterable, this combo isn't. You can get closer to the killer but then one of your mates will become the Obsession and Oblivious for 60 seconds, not really a difference. I had a recent match against a Nurse who played these perks and I was literally oblivious 70 % of the match. The problem is not the combo itself, but that it triggers too often.
I agree the combo is very strong, but maybe it's time we need to nerf the nurse honestly, she is the problem.
It's counterable by keeping everyone within 40m. Which isn't all that hard to do really. But I do agree it's a difficult and annoying thing to counter.
You misunderstood me. It didn't matter what killer I faced. That combo works on every killer. I just wanted to tell what I experienced by myself.
Deerstalker exists for half the perk slots, and it counters amazing perks such as Alert!
I don't think it's overpowered, but it's annoying as HECK and it's encouraging a lot of slugging gameplay. It's also extremely unintuitive and overwhelming and upsetting for casual players who don't know the perks and don't understand what's happening.
Is this combo overpowered? No. Is it problematic? Absolutely.
It's really just deeply unfun to go against.
It allows for constant slugging-for-the-4K, and one of the strongest slugging builds was just strangely buffed (Nurse's Calling + Coulrophobia) and I don't think that's what we should be striving for right now.
Lots of players are confused and complaining in my endgame chats.
sure wish vigil wasn't getting gutted so it would be useful to deal with this… I would rather Vigil get split into two perks than lose the value of helping to get rid of debuffs.
Just ran this for ten games total. I… I don't get it? If I want 'oblivious' I'll just double down on a full obsession build with furtive chase, and then I get haste as well. If I want the aura read, I'm better off with Deerstalkers and nurses calling. I appreciate it may be unfun to face this but I don't think it's problematic: primarily because I can get similar and better results and status' for longer, with a high momentum build that takes better advantage of the conditions.
If anything I'd be glad to see a killer running this.
I'm not misunderstanding, I think it's fine other killers have this as an option. I'm yet to see it break the game, if a perk gets nerfed "because of nurse". Just deal with her, she shouldn't be denying every killer an option for hit and run/pressuring playstyles.
That's just my stance on it, that's why I agreed I think the perk combo is strong synergy wise and I don't have an issue with it, I have an issue with aura reading on nurse.
That doesn't counter the perk. The perk only species that if the obsesion is within 40 meters, the obsession switches to the farthest player. If the farthest player is 10 meters from you, they still become the obsession and have their aura revealed
Aha. Thank you.
Played against a huntress running this combo on the Game.
I was ready to counterplay with Distortion and Shadow Step, so not a problem during the early game.
We eventually get to 1 gen and 2v1, and it was at that point the perk became unhealthy.
She slugged my friend without knowing where I was (trusting she would soon see my aura).
The game prolongs for 10 more minutes in a cycle of slug, recover, slug, recover, slug, recover.
The lengths killers go to for 4ks are a bit rediculuous…
I think we often forget our opponents are people too and that we should consider how our gameplay effects others, even while we are trying to win.
I don't think this perk combo isn't as bad as survivor perk combos like what can you do agents a plot twist and ds combo same with soul guard conviction or ub its the same gimmick if I'm on pallet with flip-flop and power struggle and maybe boil over and way more combos.
you could say the same for killer with pain res and dms and such but nothing is truly the same power combo then survivors perks.
You have to be away from the killer and you know that killer can see you thank to nemesis. What more would you want to play around it?
The best way to counter this combo is to stay close to the killer. People were using Friends til the End with Nemesis, that counter is going into a locker prior to the obsession getting hooked. Another way to counter is running Object to see the killer when they see you, Distortion, Shadow Step. Sure, Obliviousness sucks and having it for so long sucks too. If anything the duration may need to be reverted back to it's previous state.
Theres a lot of times where I feel like the devs release perks not realizing the combos that can be "problematic." For instance Secret Project by itself is not strong but when you're comboing it with other gen covering perks, you could basically be undetectable all match.