Another Way Forward For Balance Change Scheduling
Somewhere on the forums, it's been stated by the developers that they no longer plan on putting balance changes on PTBs with new content. My assumption is that this has to do with getting meaningful feedback and not wanting to overload any testing environment with too many large-scale changes and additions at once, which I think is a worthwhile enough concern to take seriously.
I'd like to propose handling this issue differently to a hard binary between "new content" and "balance changes", though.
What I'd propose is this: Every PTB has a 'budget' of sorts, modelled after bigger chapter releases as the maximum size. So, every PTB has room for the following:
- One new killer/reworked killer/large killer update/big system mechanic
- A total of nine new or updated perks
- (Probably a few small number tweaks for perks too, if the team think they're safe enough to not need much formal testing)
- And of course, bugfixes.
That way, no PTB has too much on it, and PTBs with new content still have those as a focus, but you've also got a bit of a sliding scale.
For big chapters, it'd work exactly as BHVR say now: one killer, three killer perks, two survivors + six survivor perks. This can safely be assumed to be under the maximum amount of things BHVR are okay testing on one PTB, since I have to imagine two-survivor chapters aren't going anywhere.
For regular size chapters, though, you'd have some room to adjust things. One new killer, three new killer perks, one new survivor with three perks… but that leaves three perk update/reworks left to reasonably be tested on one PTB.
For small chapters it's even better. Only a survivor? That's where you can throw in a system mechanic update/addition, or a whole killer rework. Only a killer? Less room, but still six potential perk updates.
Then for midchapters with no new content, you still have the guidelines making sure everything on them can reasonably get meaningful feedback from the testing but you also have the most room to play with.
The reason I suggest this is that I really worry the rate of balance updates and other changes would plummet off a cliff if we keep getting this many new-content PTBs but none of them are allowed to have any other changes on them. Midchapters with no new content aren't as common these days, but if every PTB had a set amount of stuff to test, we'd still see a reasonable pace of adjustments without any one PTB going overboard.
Now obviously, I don't work for BHVR, and I also haven't worked on any video games in this capacity (or like, any capacity), so there may be a hundred reasons this wouldn't work that I'm not able to see, but all I'm wasting is a couple minutes of typing if so. Otherwise it's worth pitching, I think.
Comments
It's things that we're looking at, we always try to get as much in each patch as possible…just when its a chapter release then the focus has to be there and that leaves very little (if any) bandwidth for anything else.
Production shedules are so tight on many things given how long some things naturally take, so anything with VFX, animations, programming and then testing. So having any sort of a scale to say that each PTB needs X amount of changes is not possible, a killer update for example is a bit more than tweaks but ultimately doesn't change the power too much and its just not possible with the current bandwidth to get two updates in a patch. And then the larger reworks need to be scheduled in for when there is the extra bandwidth in order to be able to do the work involved.
We'd love to be able to bring you more live design changes, as we are very very aware that we have a big game with plenty of things that need updating and we do try to get the max in each patch. its just unfortunate the reality of how much time is taken up with each individual thing.
I'd just like to see some perk updates with number changes in every patch.
Updating the numbers of underused perks takes very little bandwidth. 1-3 people could pull the data to find perks that are rarely used for both sides, then simply change the numbers on ~3 of them for each side to make them more desirable in a few hours and have the change ready to ship for the next update.
I feel like the only reason it doesn't happen is because BHVR is too scared to make something overpowered or broken so these changes that should be doable in a few hours require lots of discussions and approvals that balloon them into massive undertakings, but with the amount of perks in the game and the rate at which its growing most perks are doomed to be forever bad that way.
In my opinion, BHVR should play it more fast and loose with the perk balance. Focus on fast changes over "ideal" ones. Inevitably by doing this, perks are occasionally going to be overpowered, but if that happens the changes can simply be toned back or reverted at your discretion. I believe a shifting meta with occasional broken things that need to be nerfed is better than having the same stale meta for years on end. Just accept that sometimes a perk is going to slip in that is unfair and will briefly dominate the meta for a month or so for one side or the other before being toned back
But then why not improve your communication with us? You cancelled the midchapter without any announcements and right before you told us that balance changes are now limited to midchapter. Saying that and cancelling the very next midchapter feels like a sucker punch.
It would also be nice if you could tell us what you've learned from the killer survey you did a few months ago or what happened with the rework for Artist's addons (march 2025).
Its really strange ngl, we just had a anniversy stream where announcements for all these graphical overhauls and dynamic weather stuff in the future, is this where the recourses are going instead of to the live game?
I would rather go hard with fixes / changes for stuff already in game.
I think the way they are going to do it is good, because it can be difficult to evaluate both a new killer, perks and other changes all at the same time. Testing them separately makes more sense.
I don't think it is strange, a lot of DBD's current issues come from the current make up of the games code. In an interview Cote said they are building it from the ground up.
Lots of long standing issues could potentially be fixed with this new remake of the game, and with a team who built it themselves, it'll be easier for them to fix any issues as it's THEIR code.
I think being patient for bigger changes is fine, coz they are perhaps working on these very same changes being added to the other version of the game at the same time.
The game isn't exactly dying or suffering rn, balance isn't catastrophic bar the few outliers, we just need to be patient and enjoy the new releases <3
Keep giving feedback etc, coz it's quite clear from Mandy's post they are listening to us.
I would prefer no new releases and them do balance / fixes for current stuff while working on long term stuff (new code, etc) but know that not gonna happen 😂
I do get what you are saying tho and would agree, but track record isn't the best with waiting for stuff with BHVR
I remember a swamp rework mentioned ages ago, SM current state, I know this one new but the whole diminishing returns has had no perks or individual killer adjustments for its implementation (unless you count the killers who had small "buffs" I guess, but iirc that was unrelated to diminishing returns just around same time) now that sorta stuff gonna have to be waiting longer.
Swamp rework will be with the new update I guess, Skull Merchant was scrapped coz of the "Skull Merchant community" backlash, that's on them, they should have just rode the wave of the new design and seen where it took them coz it's better than the state she is in now.
Diminishing Returns is probably why they are taking their time to review the state of the game, you can already see them experimenting with new haste values in new perk and power design (Jason's haste and Wide Open Throttle, Lend a hand is a new type of healing perk that has synergy with existing perks).
Like you can already see in their decisions their awareness of the feedback IMO, I imagine the next update that addresses DR will be a broad sweeping one with a PTB to focus solely on that. While we'd all love the changes RN, we need to patient or we'll end up with a rush job if we pressure them, which is how we get bugs.
The current game we just have to cope with it for a while longer.
I do appreciate you taking the time to answer, even if it isn't necessarily what I was hoping to hear, haha.
Hopefully the pace of balance changes doesn't slow too much, then. Personally, I only worry about midchapters with no new content getting more infrequent with more releases per year, but I'm sure something can be done about that.
yeah I hear you on that, and the player part of me feels the same.
The plan is for major changes to be in the mid chapters, there might still be smaller changes in Chapter Releases, depending on what bandwidth is available, but those are not guaranteed (cos of the bandwidth) but I also think having major updates on a mid chapter when there's no new content being added is a wise move.
Regarding the comments on making changes without testing them, and then having something broken in the game for X amount of time - we've been there before and seen the discourse that it causes so its not something we will aim to do at all. Having them tested and in the PTB is our intention, my team works very very closely with the Live Design team (this is the team who handle the live game, not new content) and we're constantly discussing the feedback we receive and what is planned for upcoming patches etc.
When we have large killer updates, that eats into the bandwidth that's available, and then there's minimal, if any, changes elsewhere as well, so that affects priorities heavily. It's a balancing act between what will improve the game for X amount of people vs Y amount of people sometimes, as whilst we'd love to do more constantly and are investigating many different ways, we are limited with what can realistically be achieved within the time frames available.
It does make sense, even if it isn't ideal.
Would I be correct in asserting that we might be more likely to get smaller perk tweaks in content release PTBs? Not guaranteed, still, but because that takes up less bandwidth it might be more likely?
I do agree with the philosophy that larger changes should be reserved for midchapters and I think the Krasue patch is a great example as to why that is.
Above all else I just hope we can get some perk updates soon, even if just small tweaks/number adjustments, as the current meta is feeling pretty stale on both sides and has been for a while
I appreciate you may not be able to say, but just in case you can:
As the next major update is going to be the community Chapter with The Judgement, does this mean we're not getting any major QoL or balance changes until October-ish at earliest?
yes you would be correct there, and that is the intention, some chapters though are more involved than others, so those ones are slightly less.
I really appreciate you taking the time to explain all this. As a long-time killer main though, it’s hard not to feel discouraged when so many existing killers and add-ons badly need updates and sit untouched for years.
New chapters are exciting, but the core roster is what keeps a live game healthy, and right now a lot of us feel like older killers are being left behind. I really hope bandwidth planning can start prioritizing more frequent balance passes and reworks on the existing cast, even if that means slightly scaling back what ships in some chapters, because we want this game to feel good long-term, not just when a new killer drops.
Also, I just want to say thank you to you and the rest of the Live Design team specifically. I know you’re working on the existing game and not the new chapters themselves, and as someone who plays a lot of killer I really appreciate that there’s a dedicated team thinking about long-term health and balance.
If it would be helpful for you, I’m sure many of us would be more than happy to provide focused feedback on specific killers, add-ons, or pain points you’re looking at for existing designs. Sometimes it’s hard to know what’s most useful to you from our side, so if you ever need targeted notes or examples, please let us know what kind of information would actually help your team.
As always, Happy Gaming Fog Warriors!
honestly, its always helpful when there's specific constructive feedback on specific killers, definitely helps us to narrow down where the issues are, what areas of the kit need buffing - what problems you feel with the current design is always a good starting point.