Dbd is survivor sided
Unlike yesterday, when I was beyond frustrated and tired, I'm calmer today and actually ready to formulate my opinions.
First off I want to say I don't care about low-level players, when discussing balancing we should focus on high-level (not comp) players.
Now into my argument.
Chasing the first survivor, even if they're bad, with exhaustion takes thirty seconds enough for the first Gen to pop if all three people work on it.
This thirty seconds can easily be extended by shift W, and pre dropping. Then you got people who play immersed which are time consuming to find.
"So drop chase" you can't keep dropping chase repeatedly, and if everyone pre drops and pre runs then it takes forever, keep in mind this takes no skill.
Generators also go by to fast, with hyper focus stake out, a gen can be done easily in under 40 seconds solo, and stealth killers are usually weaker and easier to loop so the extra Gen speed is not needed.
Hit and run is also useless because botany, God medkits, lend a hand, Boon circle of healing, and the millions of other healing perks.
Now "toxic" strategies
Tunneling is easily countered by STB, DS, OTR, BT, Baby sitter, and DH is a powerful perk that you only get by hooking.
Slugging is also countered by UB, EXPO, No Mither, FTP, Soul guard, WGLF, MFT, Conviction.
Camping: Reassurance, and basic teamwork.
Also Shoulder is easily the best perk in the game, even without vigil exposed is only good on M1 killers which their are only four good ones, Singularity, Houndmaster, Spirit, and Ghoul. And fourty seconds is 28 with vigil, which means it's counters the one downside for such a strong effect, and with exhaustion it's basically impossible to use the exposed if you're good.
If you have a debate I'm now in the right head space to actually debate it.
Comments
Last 30 days because this is what people say is the worst period for killer. And these have all been in the event despite how survivor sided it is. Anyone else got theirs?
I was wrong okay
It mostly depends how you look at the killer choice. Do you take the average of every killer or do you just compare the strongest killer? Choosing a B-tier-killer or lower is a choice like choosing weak perks. For context: my most hours are on low-tier-killer.
I'm looking at low B-teir and below, however I think A-teirs are struggling right now too against pre dropping and decent, keyword decent survivors. Don't bring up Nurse or Blight because they play a completely different game.
Events do have SBMM for the purposes of matchmaking, you just don't gain or lose MMR during it.
I honestly didn't know that so I will take your word, the only reason I made that statement is that I have heard it a lot and the survivors in events in my experience are much worse than normal queues
Killer queue times have been quite long in a number of regions, and the game will sometimes prioritise queue times over matchmaking accuracy in order to get people into games quicker. Which could explain why it sometimes feels like there's no SBMM.
The average kill rate is 60%. That seems pretty balanced to me. What are your average kill rates for the killers you play?
I'm a ghoul main with 80% kill rate however, I win not because I'm good, I win because the survivors give up when they hear my terror radius or loop the air, or horrible pathing, the 60% kill rate would be lower substantially.
Clarification, the average kill rate is intended to be 60%. Some killers are way under that. Some are higher. A 60% kill rate equates to 2.49 kills a match on average (just shy of 2.5 kills which would be 62.5%).
I absolutely agree - the game is clearly survivor sided. That infernal hatch mechanic absolutely ruined my Jason stats. Frankly, I think the escapees should be forced to write me a letter of apology.
Ignoring the fact it takes 90 seconds to finish a gen (not accounting for perks or toolboxes) alone and 40 esque seconds theres flaws with this. First, what exhaustion is the survivor running? Deadhard will not help them if its their first chase, while overcome will not help against the likes of Billy, Bubba, or Meyers. Second, is it the first chase which almost always takes the longest? Second or fourth where some or more resources are spent? Especially if theyre pre-dropping? Has the killer been bouncing around survivors causing chaos? Third many killers use their power to shorten chases. Ghoul can straight up ignore pre-running as can blight and Billy. Once trapper is set a chase can be immediately shortened by one mistake. Well aimed shots from artist or huntress cuts chases short. Henry, Nurse and Pyramidhead could straight up ignore pre-dropping. Were survivors interrupted during any chase? Other perks used? There's a myriad of things that affect a trial.
Can be and actually are different scinarios. That combo requires skill checks which are inconsistent as sometimes you spend 60 seconds on a gen before you see a single one. As above various factors influence the trial. Funny enough stealth killers semi counter stake out since you need to be in a terror radius. Meanwhile hit and run is still alive despite thoughts to the contrary. Those perks help against it true, but only one of those doesn't kill it and survivors only have 4 slots to use. Many have also shown an inclination to not bring to much altruistic perks unless its whatever new flavor of the month.
So the funny thing is that all those but DH only helps the would be tunneled target. Shoulder the Burden can backfire spectacularly due to sheer luck. DS doesn't help much against alot of the cast or if theres nothing to work with due to pre-dropping. OTR is basically a better BT which protects you from being tunneled for 1 hit that usually gets chewed through anyway due to said tunneling. Babysitter only affects the unhooked bar the aura reading. Deadhard meanwhile is a parry which can be baited…and can ironically enough be countered by tunneling since you cant use it while in deep-wounds. Weirdly enough if you dont tunnel you dont really got to deal with most of them.
…Really? No mither?…
Ignoring the fact that no mither is being used for an arguement for the game being survivor sided: Unbreakable only works against slugging and only once. Exponential similarly only works against that tactic and while it works for the whole team, it can be snuffed out. If we have to explain the downsides of no mither im calling this a lost cause. For the People…kinda is just a general heal, it doesn't really counter slugging alone since theres now 2 injured survivors, possibly close depending on if the slug was guarded. I realize im kinda just listing what they do but its kinda to hammer the point home that these really only work against that tactic (bar for the people, which again a general heal). If you DONT do that tactic its a non issue and some of those have downsides.
Again, one tactic for the perk. Basic teamwork could beat alot more than just camping if the killer isnt careful, but wheres the teamwork in solo que? Scattered in the fog. "High-level" or not unless they're a squad teamwork is an unfortunate tall ask as the survivors need to infer (aka: fancy guess work) what their team is doing and when.
Your opinions are your own though personally disagree. A: i've seen it blow up in peoples faces. B: It only moves a hookstate. Since I don't tunnel all it does is surprise me when someone dies due to miscounting and the fact someone actually brought it. The exposed doesn't even factor to me.
I read the whole thing but I could have just stopped here. If the survivors triple stack a generator they are playing in a hyper inefficient way (unless that gen is the key piece of a hard three gen). If this happens at the start of the game its going to be a gen in a corner of the map I don't care about and now I don't have to care about any pallets in that area either, they have done me a favor. Killer is doing just fine.
Okay the first point you are right, but I have not had one match in the past month were someone didn't bring a gen rush build, exhaustion perks like sprint burst or Lithe counters all m1 killers, and some high mobility killers like ghoul pre drop pallet and you run away they have to wait on cd then pre drop again, you see where this is going. Hyperfocus stake out gets value 99% and in what world is getting generators done in twenty five seconds fair.
Killers and powers also don't counter both pre running and dropping, ghoul gets a token removed, huntress gets pre ran into mars and so does pyramid head. Blight and Nurse are excluded from this argument since they are a completely other ball game.
I wish I recorded the match but I had a match with Wraith where I was doing hit and run with sloppy and GOF, and they still healed in two seconds wjth resurgence and lend a hand.
Tunneling in this meta is required as gen speeds are beyond ludicrous speeds, and STB,DS, OTR, and BT have throughout the games lifespan been used aggressively, even without tunneling.
Slugging I have had killers use slug builds and I use WGLF and I have not lost to a single slug build with it. No mither is not that bad in this meta because of how broken survivor is, UB is a perk I have lost entire games to because I slug for pressure when everyone flocking the slug get three man down and poof UB across the map and my pressure is gone, and EXPO is meh I will give you that.
Camping in solo que honestly I can usually get my teammates to work even if they made a bad play by pin ponging the killer, and reassurance is good even when your not camping. 100 second hook timers should never be a thing.
STB I have games where I have had two people first hook, and one second hook at one Gen, I need the second hook dead but they get STB, and since I'm not camping they got away safely with zero counters. Also bad survivors are not important when discussing balance thank you.
If spawns worked right then I would agree but I have had too many survivors triple in the middle and ruin any three gen, or they spawn in four different areas around four different gens which I should have mentioned
If all of the survivors spawn in the center of the map and hop on a gen together then they will be easy to find and you can interrupt them ALL which is a massive amount of free pressure and time for the killer. Made up scenarios between friends in customs is not relevant to public matches and having a build that can do so leaves you wide open to tunneling, slugging, and worse chases than you otherwise could have, its a trade off you made in your build.
Okay but you have enough for SB and that alone is enough to make chases last long enough for a gen to pop if your good, and yes if they all spawn I can interpret them and get free pressure, however I hit one and the rest all SB or Lithe away and WoO space bar.
Also here's a video that proves gen speeds are ludicrous
https://youtu.be/fN_ZUUNTzic?si=gb9yFghNYxg43iCXeven if they are comp players a two minute escape should not be possible period.seconds
'I have an 80% winrate but my opponents don't struggle enough for me.'
Okay then.
If the gen is popping in 30 seconds solo from a solo build then no you don't have enough space for SB. If everyone SBs or Lithes away they don't have full gen rush builds and you have interrupted ALL of their gen progress, you are in a winning position and the match has just started. Complaints about WoO will never stop being funny to me, the survivor is just as bad as they were without it, if you can't down someone because they have WoO its a skill issue on your part. I would much rather every survivor have WoO than another perk that is likely to be significantly more impactful to the match.
Are you seriously ignoring that this took: a comp team, many attempts, a survivor sided map, full builds dedicated to just this, a bad killer (or at least a killer that played poorly in this match), and the killer to choose to sit on top of a slug while the survivors completed the gens? Ya, if the killer does nothing and is unable to down survivors the gens go quickly, is that news?
First off I want to say I don't care about low-level players, when discussing balancing we should focus on high-level (not comp) players.You're fine to not care about certain groups of players, but you can't have balance discussions that totally leave out large portions of the player base and focus just on the portion that you (likely) identify yourself as.
It'd be like posting the world records for fastest killer downs.
To be fair it was many attempts for the wr. They won a lot of their matches in that stream in 3-5min.
But it isnt a good tactic against a killer who is ready. Nobody used it in Hens unrestricted tournament.
And then they burn through all their resources and then the next one gets dropped in a fraction of the time it normally would have had they not pre-dropped everything. Also thos perks dont "counter" m1 killers, they just annoy them. Im perfectly capable of running up with a ghostface against a SB, its just annoying and i know they wont have it again for about 20ish seconds at the least. Also your counting downwards in time it takes to finish a gen with things that have no consistancy getting max value. Sure in going to get skill checks eventually, but is it one at the tail end of a generator or at the begining? No way to know.
I've hit people with hatchets who tried sb away but had no cover. If I can do it, people can learn to do it too, and people who are better than me can do it with more consistency. Ghouls literally counter pre-running because they can literally catch up to you in seconds. And i said pyramidhead can counter pre-drops, thats not pre-running thank you. How exactly is Blight excluded here? You can maybe make an argument for nurse (though i personally disagree), but why single out blight? Regardless of that thought wanna know how Trapper, yes you hear that right Trapper, counters and pre-run pre-drop? He traps a area right and then when survivors run that way they either A go in the trap or B got nothin to use and need to take damage. TADA. Its like killer powers do things.
Now please analyze what you typed. To get to that point they required 2 perks with 2 survivors and cost 1 hookstate. That isn't hit and run. Hit and run being ping ponging around 2+ survivors doing damage to get downs. What you typed is healing off the hook and it costs those survivors to do that.
Tunneling is not required. Will it help? Sure. Is it easy? Sure. Is it required? Nope because gens only go ludicris speeds if A: the killer does poorly, B: Its a set up killer making a big set up, C: its 4 survivors with full gen loadouts and if THAT ones the case then they dont have anything else like anti-tunnel, anti-slug, exhaustion, etc. Also 90% of the time you as the killer have to ACTIVELY walk into the DS. Also also, how the ever loving hell do you use STB offensively?… Like every scenario i can think of i just see free hooks.
I know you probably are super serious and didnt mean to make a joke but this made me giggle. No mither, broken survivors, hehe.
Regardless of that funny, read that whole slugging paragraph again, or at least the UB part.
If everyone's flocking to the slug how is the UB happening across the map? If your purposefully leaving the slug to go chase the other 3 instead of just smacking them away to be clear for blinds or something then UB is literally doing what its designed to do and your feeding into it. Thats not a problem with the perk or survivors.
Continuing on heres something to think on. As a survivor you bringing WGLF is you bringing something to counter that specific strategy. Of course slugging wont be as effective if you do so, but then you realize you spent a perk slot. So what if the killer doesnt slug but tunnels instead? Oh you'll just bring DS (one of the few that helps you specificly) and no problemo. What if the killer is a hit and run type? Ohh you love the resurgance and lend a hand combo so thats fixed. What if the killer camps? Well you'll…be outta perks so pray that your team does well with it? What if the killer is straight up good with regression and you need to rush them gens?…you ran outta perks awhile ago so tough luck. Survivors can't cover everything.
As for reassurance tell me what would be better (assume no perks aside from reassurance and your 4th teammate is on a gen busy):
Now, the way i see it, scenario 2 is worse because you now have 1 on hook again, your recently unhooked still injured, the killer quickly closing in, and not even for that important gen to have any meaningful progress. That 100 second hook timer? Only matters if the killer is hanging around near it doing bumkiss.
Congrats you now either have one of the other 2 first hook on deathhook instead or now everyone has a hook and you can throw another survivor on the hook for them to worry about.
What makes a bad survivor cause really if your going to go that route im not going to let you be vauge about it. I've had people who are good make mistakes. I've had bad people make randomly good plays. Players are human after all.
They are too weak, correct. But thats a problem with killer balance, not which side is stronger. If you compare it to the strongest survivor builds, you also need to take the strongest killer option.
Killer variance is a bit bad, but the last few killer are quite viable. So you should have atleast 10, where you are almost never without a chance in a match. (counting the rare chance you play against a strong comp team) But then it also depends on the map.
Of course some killers are lower. Some killers are higher too. That’s how averages work. The average actually is 60% - not just “is intended to be 60%”.