Jason should not be able to hold his power forever in a match
And I say this because the counter to Jason, slowly crouch walking around the map, has got to be some of the most game dragging out mindless stuff since mending simulator legion. It's okay every once in a while, for a short duration, but when you have everybody in the match doing it, and Jason just holds his power until somebody reveals himself, the game gets boring as hell. Every use of power becomes a gurantee chase. Especially the ones who hook then use their power to teleport right back to the hook upon unhook, hook again, teleport right back, repeat.
Then there's the situation of egc where Jason closes the hatch first, because good luck finding the hatch crouch walking around the map. Because Jason can hold his power forever and you're 100% not getting out that gate. What are you gonna do, crouch walk all the way to a chest and then crouch walk all the way to where ever the hatch is? It's just ggs at that point.
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Believe or not I actually crouch walked to a chest during this exact scenario, got a key, then crouch walked all the way to the closed hatch which was near a gate and got out.
I agree with you by the way.
Even if there was a limit of lets say 60s it wouldn't affect much as he gets it back in 13s
What keeps you from just doing a gen and taking chase if he comes?
You wouldn't hide from a chainsawing hillbilly in a locker and then complain that his chainsaw does not run out would you.
I agree. It's super boring too. They always return to hook to tunnel.
I don’t think his omni presence is the problem here, tbh the only issue I have with Jason are the add ons being stupidly over powered along with how easily he gets spears. the actual omni presence itself isn’t too bad to counter unless he has the exhaustion add on then it becomes a problem and you shouldn’t be healing under hook anyways unless you have healing perks. I will say the only time you should be crouching around the map is start of the game and when you’re on 2nd hook
Agree 100% and I also posted about this recently. Jason is the new champion of boring on the killer roster. His design actively discourages interaction with survivors and the matches usually turn into excruciating crouch walk simulators. My former least favorite boring killer to go against was Legion, but now I would take 100 Legion matches in a row over another Jason match.
I think a lot of this is very rng and specific game state dependent. If you’re dead on hook or injured for example obviously you don’t want to be found. If the gen you’re at is out in the open and the only pallet spawn is likely the one he will be teleporting to, you don’t want to be found. If you’re one of the last 2 survivors or and he’s slugging for the 4k, you don’t want to be found. If you’ve finally found one of his hex totems but you don’t want him to spawn on you while you’re cleansing it, then you don’t want to be found. If he’s running Friends till the end and you’re exposed, you don’t want to be found. There’s many instances where you’re better off not actually playing the game.
If you hear a chainsaw billy approaching because of terror radius, you can position yourself. There isn’t a terror radius for Jason in that way, no way to know if he’s coming towards you or not. There are no visual or audio cues, no directional cues. It’s very much guaranteed that if he sees you he’s coming for you, so you have make sure that you’re in a good position for him to show up, and that it makes sense if you were the next one to be hooked.
Im not saying there’s no counter play, there is. But that counterplay is not interactive. I imagine everyone, no matter if they love Jason or hate Jason, can understand the general frustration of this kind of counter play.
The comparison is not ideal.
The better comparison would be a Spirit whose phasewalk is indefinitely as well. So she just stays in phasewalk, zooms around the map and only jumps "into reality" when she definitely can hit or grab you.
You can definitely question the particular design choice.
You just described what Wraith does. Indefinite duration of the power is far from being the issue with Jason. Xenomorph can also stay inside his tunnels forever too.
With the difference that Wraith has basically nothing else going for him (plus he needs time to uncloak, if he decides to attack) and Xenomorph is easily counterable with the turrets and their beeping.
They both gain no big advantage with staying in their power forever. Spirit would do and Jason does.
I will say this for like the 5th time, hard counters should not be in the game.
You don't want them because then killers need to be balanced around the possibility you run the hard counter, which isnt fun in the slightest.
Killers with hard counters are generally low tier and people accept they need buffs (Trapper and hag as two examples).
"jason hold's power until someone reveals himself"- Thats because its a soft counter that allows one of the healthy teammates to take chase rather than a hard counter that just stops him getting info, onto the next chase. The power allows you to choose who takes chase, thats already a pretty big upside (like the cenobite's box for example).
"especially the one's who use their power to teleport right back to the hook upon unhook"- usually, when im forced to do that, its because likeminded survivors such as yourself refuse to take chase, and so the only place i have info at that point in time is right by the hook. I even run bbq and discordance to try and find somewhere else to go after hook, but the few times i return to hook this is all i hear. TAKE AGGRO, is my response to this.
"Then there's the situation of egc where Jason closes the hatch first, because good luck finding the hatch crouch walking around the map. Because Jason can hold his power forever and you're 100% not getting out that gate. What are you gonna do, crouch walk all the way to a chest and then crouch walk all the way to where ever the hatch is? It's just ggs at that point."- this is a big way of saying that you don't understand how to play his end game. dw, i dont blame you, hes knew. As with every other time he uses his power, the most advantageous thing here is to take chase. He gets more value if you just crouch walk along the place and he finds hatch, which makes end game unbearable for you, so run as soon as hatch spawns and keep running, check as much of the map as possible and if he spawns on you, try and path forward and make as much distance and check as much of the map as possible. This has worked 2/6 times for me ive been in hatch offs against him, 2 times he ignored me and continued searching for hatch, 1 time he chased me and killed me before i found hatch, 1 time i found hatch before he chased.
But even if he ignores you, running is still the optimum call in end game as it increases your chances of finding hatch before him.
Your comparison there is also not ideal, cuz spirit can hit you out of phasewalk, jason can't.
The better comparison is wraith with silent bell and the gen aura one, you hide and he can't find you as soon as your on a gen he knows, and can appear almost instantly out of sight.
In both occassions, you should do a gen, keep an eye out for where they could pop up, and run accordingly as soon as theyre visible.
Agree with this partially.
"if your dead on hook or injured, don't want to be found"- 75% of the time yes, if someone else is on deathhook and nobody is taking aggro tho, you might have to.
"if the gen you're at is out in the open and the only pallet spawn is likely the one he will be teleporting to, you don't want to be found"- This one less so, you can easily take a hit to reach whatever pallet/loop you might need and chain some tiles then, theres very few instances where deadzones are that close together and if you do loop deadzone into deadzone thats probably something you shouldve picked up before the chase.
"If you’re one of the last 2 survivors or and he’s slugging for the 4k, you don’t want to be found. If you’ve finally found one of his hex totems but you don’t want him to spawn on you while you’re cleansing it, then you don’t want to be found."- first one sure, second one not so much. If he's able to pressure you off totems teammates can be doing gens. 90% of the time i've been against the hex build i ignore it and its fine. Focus gens, if he has devour try and get gens out the way before dh pops, because he has 0 other perks you should be fine.
"If you hear a chainsaw billy approaching because of terror radius, you can position yourself. There isn’t a terror radius for Jason in that way, no way to know if he’s coming towards you or not. There are no visual or audio cues, no directional cues. It’s very much guaranteed that if he sees you he’s coming for you, so you have make sure that you’re in a good position for him to show up, and that it makes sense if you were the next one to be hooked."- The issue with this statement is silent bell wraith exists, and you should (if you're seasoned at dbd) be able to hand threats just appearing and being a threat. Especially when jason spawns at pre-existing positions that you can keep an eye on. His playstyle isn't that difficult to play vs.
"the counterplay is not interactive"- quite the opposite tho, as ive said a lot of his counterplay depends on taking aggro and splitting hooks which is exceptionally easy vs him. The issue is survivors don't want to use the counterplay, they just want to complain (as has been for the past week) about how there's little counterplay.
And yes he is strong, I've advocated in my other posts for a few minor nerfs such as increased tp cd, reduced haste duration and less scrap piles so missing is punished. But he has counterplay, it is interactive, and it shouldn't be as frustrating as it is. The issue is soloqueue makes him a ######### to play against, but id also be fine with prox chat or even just full team vc all game, make everyone swf, then buff a bunch of the killer roster to match.
I think the problem with Jason is that he is simply too easy to be efficient with and is difficult to be efficient against without a full team calling out where they think he is heading in OE.
OE lets him quickly patrol gens, start them regressing if using the badge and even if you are not running that add-on OE comes back so quickly that coming out to kick a key gen isn't a big deal. No need to look hard for survivors, you either get red mist/footprints from them followed by KI or the game stops being progressed towards an escape. You are so fast in OE you can be across the map in an instant so even a loose three gen is fairly easy to control and you can reload instantly along the way. Most strong killers need to get undetectable to sneak up and avoid a pre-run but its just part of Jasons kit.
No individual piece is overpowered but the combination makes the most fundamental aspect of DbD, being time efficient, much simpler than it is for most other killers. His chase power isn't nurse/blight level but it doesn't need to be when he can easily shave off time in the other aspects of the game.
Except spirit can appear anywhere and instantly M1 after. Jason can't appear anywhere and can't instantly M1/M2.
And as soon as billy gets undetectable he's uninteractive? Nerf undetectable on billy?
maybe its because i don’t bother with the counter play, since if everyone is doing it the game stalemates. but I like playing against jason, i don’t get the boring complaints. maybe jason shouldn’t be able to hold his power forever, but it could be too that survivors shouldn’t get to be hidden for that long either.
Jason isn’t the problem imo, its my teammates who default to must crouch avoid chase at all cost even if i haven’t been hooked yet and do nothing all match because jason is in power.
Take risks stop being afraid unless you’re on death hook. Split gens he can only chase one person at a time.