Lightweight + Ghost Notes needs to be nerfed.
Lightweight + Ghostnotes is a really strong and annoying combo. I recorded footage as killer and scratch marks last less than 3 seconds with his combo. So unless the killer is a few meters behind you, you might as well not have any scratchmarks at all.
Using this combo is especially strong on indoor maps. Drop a pallet, run around a corner while the killer breaks it and the killer will have no idea where you went. Scratch Marks is an incredibly important part of following Survivors both in and outside of chase.
This is by far the best stealth combo in the game and unless the killer runs a lot of aura reading you will escape a lot of chases with this. This should be nerfed.
And before anyone says "Skill Issue"
- Do new killer players deserve to play against Survivors with virtually no Scratch Marks?
- Even really good people lose Survivors to stuff like that. I know for a fact LilithOmen has lost Survivors just using Lightweight before. Survivors will factually leave your LOS sometimes, and then Scratch Marks (and blood if they are injured) are the only realiable way to track them.
Comments
You are not dedicating three perks to it. Ghost Notes reduces your exhaustion duration, and sprint burst is already a really good perk. So you are dedicating 1 perk to having extremely powerful stealth. Also, where did I ever say stealth shouldnt exist?
For the reasons I mentioned in the post. Its going to be especially hard on newer killers, and even on expirienced killer its frequently allowing people to break chases by just being able to break LOS for a bit.
Perks countering something doesn't mean that thing is neccesarily balanced. If there was a perk that said "Unless Survivors see the auras of any windows, pallets or generators they are exposed and suffer from a 25% hindered," it would not be okay just because Windows of Oportunity and Deja Vu are good and common perks.
Perks aren't the only things Survivors have vs. tunneling though. Tunneling is a strategy (not a basekit anything), and thus is itself countered by opposing strategies. The problem is these opposing strategies often need high team coordination to be effective, which is why comp DBD not only works around tunneling, but insists on it being a key part of the game.
Is tunneling disproportionately effective in SoloQ? Yes, but not because tunneling is inherently too effective, it's because SoloQ often doesn't/is incapable of employing the usual defences available to Survivor to cramp the effectiveness of tunneling, and thus require perks to make up the difference (that almost all get banned in comp DBD). Camping is the same, and by the numbers, camping is an unbelievably dire strategy... but it works in SoloQ because SoloQ often take the bait. I swear SoloQ are allergic to generators sometimes.
Regarding the matter at hand, the killer has a reduced field of vision, and needs to reposition in order to see anything, this allows survivors to make distance while the killer figures out where they are. Killers have Predator that helps with this, maybe I'm All Ears... but that is about it.
The problem, as always, is being able to make distance this way is disproportionately effective against killers that can't catch back up effectively, and largely immaterial to killers who can. The perks that helps the killer here are good for killers who can recover distance really quickly, or hit through walls... Nurse, Blight and Pyramid Head.
What makes this combo in my opinion too much, is it is basically permanently on, as a result of being an effect granted from the survivor doing what they normally would anyway.
It would work better if it was flipped around, where become exhausted disables the effect, so Survivors have a very good stealth build and can play stealthy, but can't gain monstrous distance with exhaustion as a trade off. This then makes the passive exhaustion recovery make sense.
An alternative option is it cpuld be a totem effect that gets turned off when you get injured, like Overzealous.
The combo does require 3 perks, Ghost Notes, Lightweight and an exhaustion perk, so you don't get space for other annoying perks.
Also, injured survivors get almost no value from this, only healthy ones.
I don't think my argument falls apart at all… because if I am gonna lose you on a mobile killer consistently, I'm sure as hell gonna lose you on a 4.6m/s killer considerably more often.
Unless you have evidence to the contrary the likes of Wesker or Blight is gonna lose you more often than the likes of Demogorgon or Nemesis..
If you manage to ditch me on any of these killers, these faster killers can afford to rush to try to cut you off and are more capable of determining where you can't possibly have gone... whereas m1 and alike cannot reposition quickly to do the same and thus have to give up on finding you.
In a similar vein if I ever do mange to catch a glimpse of you in the distance, it simply takes more time to move to close you down on an m1 killer with a decent chance I can lose you again, whereas faster killers can close that gap very quickly and are more likely to stick on you.
If any of that is wrong, I would like to know how it is.
It's reasonable that completely removing scratch marks for the entire match is a bit too much. This seems like an unintended interaction.
Come on man, I'm not making an unreasonable point. You can't have a combo that gives survivors a permanent and passive means of completely nullifying a standard game mechanic for the killer side. Even Hex: Crowd Control and Hex: Blood Favour, which are both very strong perks that deny a fundamental Survivor mechanic have at least got the grace of being something the survivor team can disable right from the word go, and permanently for the rest of the trial.
I play majority of my games on Survivor man, and even I can see that is just bad design. I gave a solution that would mean the Survivor actually has do something for the strong effect, which even you yourself agree is strong. I even gave them an effect that creates some nice synergies. Lightweight, Ghost Notes, and some combination of Overzealous/Sprint Burst/Circle of Healing/DarkTheory would be a nice little build.
Surely you can do better than supporting an obviously broken effect with no downside just so you can experience the same power trip you hate killers for, without even being the power role…
I do agree that this combo is unhealthy, but I don't think its due to its nature alone. Rather, its due to the fact that it only works after perks that let Survivors extend distance from the Killer. I feel that a lane needs to be chosen between "chase-extension" and "chase-losing". This combo flatly allows for both with just the three perk set-up of Lightweight > (Insert Exhaustion) > Ghost Notes, meaning you can do either without devoting a full build to the flexibility you get for chases.
Would it be best if this combo were to exist, but not activate if the Haste effect were to proc for the Survivor? It might be a convoluted solution, but that way there has to be a choice between chase-extension and chase-losing. In that case, you're enabling the less-used Exhaustion perks like Rapid Response and Head On and encouraging a stealth play-style, of which Killer has quite a few counters for as-is.
Stealth is fine, but having stealth and chase-extension for only three perks sounds a tad much. Lightweight/GhostNotes is still super strong, but it at least does not pair itself with already-strong perks this way.
U gotta be the most biased player I've ever seen on forums before. Always glazing survivor on the daily
Have you even seen these two perks in action? You're scratch marks disappear in around 3 seconds. Pair that with light footed and and you're completely untraceable outside of aura reading and killer instinct.
Rapid response and you're golden. You can exaust yourself completely for free and get info out of it.
…when you provided an example of "stealth" and said it was OP without providing a good reason. That's what a complaint is. That's what that word means.
Hang on, let me see if I can find it… Ah! Here we are:
So run distortion and calm spirit for the odd chance u see a 4 info perk killer
If only there were perks that completely counteract gen perks and better. Eh hem, Deja Vu, Overzealous, Prove Thyself. But thats ok, if you're doing bad with everything else, you can always just run this broken ass build and never get found, plus with what I said in the first comment, you're completely untraceable. Talk about "killer sided game"
Its 15 seconds. Are you telling me you can't hold chase for 15 seconds?
Have you tried Blood Amber keys with Distortion my guy?
Its actually cracked, and a much fairer version of this gameplay style because it's limited and you actually have to do something/use your head for the value.
This is the kind of thing that is good for the game where you get a strong effect, but limited uses of it... not having a permanent effect that never turns offs. That was the problem of old MFT.
Even killers don't get their pain res/pop/hexes forever, and killers have only 4 perks in play that the Survivors have to figure out vs. the Killers 16. Any permanent boosts to killer mechanics are relatively small, even their permanent builds like the super window vault or pallet break builds need 2 or 3 perks to really get effective, and even then are meme builds that also comes with downside of being stunned for longer by pallets or having to lose 3 or 4 gens to really start paying value.
It isn't a double standard, permanently active (or effectively permanent) effects need to come with effective trade offs.
If they nerf lightweight because of the new perk, I‘m gonna be mad at them
Hardened and calm spirit exist buddy. Still no excuse.
*with Distortion
Have you tried it mate? I'm guessing by that dismissive response... no.
If you say so.
I mean I'd say a free aura on the killer to ensure you win a mind game the moment you lose LoS, and at the same time you block your own aura and disable your own scratch marks on demand? Seems a pretty strong effect to me, especially on effectively a 15s cool down for each stack of Distortion. You said yourself this effect on Lightweight and Ghost Notes is strong to reliably lose even high tier killers for the sacrifice of 2 perks slots, not sure why suddenly its weak now, especially when you also get the killers aura at the same time.
You sacrifice a Commodius toolbox and BNP, or a Medkit and a Syringe, those are pretty hefty sacrifices granted, but these are 1 hit wonders, also requiring a perk slot like Botany/Resurgence or Built to Last if you want multiple uses. Reliably extending chase and even losing the killer completely in chase multiple times doesn't look like a slouch in that line, especially considering in can masssively help you get away from a killer returning to hook undetected if they try to tunnel… because you can pop this on demand for an aura read and disable your scratch marks. It's effectively a self Babysitter… especially with Sprint Burst which resets your exhaustion off hook… doesn't exactly sound bad to me.
Brother, the point is no one runs scream AND aura perks in one build. Your argument was that the only way to counter this combo should be to run tracking perks, which is super unrealistic.
Are you gonna counter 4 assumed gen regression perks with 4 gen speed perks? No. Just like how no ones gonna know if you brought Ghost Notes and Lightweight.
Like I said and you keep proving me right, you are a SUPER biased player when It comes to favoring survivor.
...well I think of several reasons why I'd prefer this over Fog Vials, I've already said a bunch of them, but I'll leave it there. I don't feel like you're particularly open to exploring opinions outside your own.
While it's been a fun topic to debate, getting ones points completely ignored and getting "countered" with a single line that has numerous holes in its logic, it's becoming tedious putting in the effort for the discussion to go nowhere.
Peace.