Thoughtlessly making changes based on usage rate alone, is dumb BTW
Maybe actually consider why the usage rates are what they are, before making changes. For example:
Billy has two good addons - those addons naturally have high usage rate *because the rest of his addons suck* and those two are almost required to make him feel decent to play. Those addons get nerfed.
Blight basically has no bad addons - the usage rate is spread pretty even because you can basically pick any addons and end up busted strong. No Blight addons nerf.
Dead Hard has high usage rate because it's the only exhaustion perk that introduces any kind of mind gameable interaction with the killer, as oppose to simply rocketing away and making them immediately drop chase. Nerfed, no fun alternatives. Even if people wanted to pretend there was nothing you could do against it at pallets (there was), the sensible change would be to make it so pallets couldn't be dropped for a short delay after using it.
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"Even if people wanted to pretend there was nothing you could do against it at pallets (there was), the sensible change would be to make it so pallets couldn't be dropped for a short delay after using it."
Not a chance that the spaghetti coding wouldn´t just lock you out of using pallets/windows for the rest of the match.
Marvin´s Blood, Mikhail´s Eye, Toy Sword, Stale Biscut, Engravings all nerfed due to being the only viable addon in a sea of useless addons.
It´s a miracle that Pyramidhead´s range addons weren´t nerfed somehow.
I don't use DH because of mind games. I use it because it is a 3rd health state and objectively superior to all other exhaustion perks. Now it isn't.
I agree that they need to do a better job of identifying why those add ons are seeing such a high usage rate in the first place. In Billy's case, he straight up sucks without Engravings. You are not going to hit a curve against anybody good without at least one Engraving. Flat nerfing Engravings without baking them into his kit or increasing his movement speed while charging is wild. Does anyone at BHVR Billy?
I mean it was virtually useless in most scenarios against any halfway decent killer, so let's stop pretending it was just a free 3rd health state. Dead Hard was incredibly easy to counter.
imo they could have made DH just be as it is now, with tokens. Max of X usages per match.
I mean in most matches against decent killers, it's difficult to get any value out of it in the first place. Any killer complaining about DH is just telling on themselves.
virtually useless in most scenarios
wasn't a free health state
incredibly easy to counter
difficult to get value out of
And yet, everyone uses it. How about you stop pretending? Can a single one of you please defend DH without this dishonesty? Just one of you, please, stop lying through your teeth and admit that Dead Hard was pretty good which is why everyone at high level and low level and everywhere in between loves to run it. I'd be much more willing to take you seriously if you did.
The sensible change is to completely rework this perk. It's very problematic for some killers regardless of what you think such as demo and huntress. For others it's really not that big of a deal. But what you don't understand is that waiting it out is just tedious after the nine trillionth time.
Killer: "dead hard?"
Survivor: *dead hards after 1-5 seconds*
Killer: *hits the survivor with the most neutral face possible*
Killer: "dead hard"
It simply disrupts the flow of the game is boring to play around after years of it. I get it man, you never wanted anything to change in this game where survivors had the same meta for 5 years. That's simply not realistic in any life service game though. If 70% of killers are whining about the perk whether its like my opinion in that it's boring to play around and wait it out or it's low to mid level killer players who just haven't learned to play around it. You just have to do something with a perk that is so widely hated by the community. Just like eruption and the gen kick meta which are also boring and tedious to play around, obviously you'll agree with that though.
I wouldn't say I hate it but it simply bores me. If I wanted to just not play around it every game I could run alch ring every game and ignore the 2 seconds of distance survivor would get on me if didn't decide to bait it out. But the current state of alch ring blight in this game also bores me and makes me feel sorry for survivors.
Also while it might take a tiny bit of patience and skill to pull off but it's greatly exaggerated. I have seen so few good dh's in the last 9 months that make me think a survivor is cracked it's incredible.
https://clips.twitch.tv/AgileSneakyPuddingPipeHype-xxxFgtswgZpWnfqS
^ that's a good dh play, if survivors had the skill and patience to do that often I might not be complaining about it right now. That's a one in a million dh play though, probably an even lower percentile actually.
Although I'm sure you will ignore this and then post this exact same thread tomorrow.
-Time your lunge to hit at the end of the DH, since they can't drop the pallet until DH is over.
-Lunge while looking up, so that you don't hit the DH, and likely end up blocking the prompt for them.
- Don't lunge, follow them through the DH and then M1 them to take advantage of the lingering hitbox. You'll probably hit them and get the pallet out of the way at the same time.
Hope this helps. DH is incredibly easy to counter.
its half a second and they can't drop the pallet during the animation, if you can't read a survivor with DH that's more of a personal problem lol
He doesn't care. He complains about how anti fun these changes are but any anti fun arguments against dh are bad and ignored.
Just w8 how the "new meta" they are about to unleash is gonna suck even more than anything we ever had for the past 3 / 4 years
That's not solo queue, that's single player.
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I guess that was a little rude. But that build implies you are souly playing for yourself to get out, if I am wrong correct me.
Haven't seen any "anti-fun" arguments. Just people screeching about how they don't know how to deal with it at pallets, so that must mean it's impossible.
I enjoy playing against survivors with DH. It's an extra layer of interaction in a chase, and it's satisfying to correctly read what they're going to do and outplay them. Better than, you know, people just sprint bursting away at the start of every chase, guaranteeing every chase has an extra 15-20 seconds of just holding W after them.
Thank you for the advice. How did no killer every come up with that? I guess we're all just way too entitled to consider something like this. Not.
1) Good luck timing your lunge so that you can hit the survivor in the 0.1s (maybe less) window of time between DH and the pallet throw. This depends on distance as well as hitboxes and survivor animations. You will never be able to guess that reliable. It's impossible.
2) Your idea is to lunge while looking up, so that the killer can shorten the distance. But without hitting the survivor you're still gonna get stunned by the pallet. This puts you in a lose-lose-situation again. You cannot lunge around the survivor and block the pallet. Not without Coup de Grace. And even then you'd probably fail.
3) Ok. So I don't go for a lunge but instead walk behind them under the pallet and get stunned again. Great advice. Even if I could react the end of the DH right as it happened I couldn't hit the survivor before they stun me. Because the stun comes before the hit. The only possible way this could work out is by latency. And if I have to rely on latency, then there is something really messed up here.
Every decent killer knows how to counter DH. The problem is that it doesn't work. In theory that is so easy. Just like Blight, Nurse, Billy and Oni are easy in theory. Just connect point A to point B and hit. Easy. In practise however this is way harder than you'd think.
Lol part of me really hopes that this "looking up so you don't hit dead hard" is true
I would find it really funny that there was such a simple counter to such a hated perk and the perk ended up being gutted cause nobody shared this supereasy counter.
This counter would also completely make autodead hard irrelevant too if it was true
I'm actually going to try it out if i remember next match. If this is actually a thing then the nerf of dead hard is entirely your fault for hoarding the counter nobody else has found
Double engravings isn't even good, Billy's best addon is lopro chains, but somehow you almost never see it used because muh curve billy (good job getting 1 hook the whole game against decent survivors)
DH isn't getting nerfed on usage rate alone though, it's an on demand potential third health state and is massively op and no there isn't a lot you can do about it at pallets.
Dead Hard is so tough to actually pull off. It's very easy to mind game. Once Killer is on you, he just waits and baits it. It's impossible for a Survivor to react to a Killer swing. Survivor's have to PREDICT ahead of time when Killer will swing, and that's mind gameable.
Time your lunge to hit at the end of the DH
Or lunge while looking up, so they end up wasting the DH and you end up blocking the pallet prompt.
Or follow them through the DH without lunging, and just m1 them and get the pallet out of the way at the same time.
DH already doesn't work 70% of the time because of ping, so no.
None of what I suggested even requires that strict of timing. Even if survivors start dropping the pallet, you can still get the hit.
Why should the survivor DH actually BEFORE killer lunge? That doesn't make any sense.
Survivor reaches a pallet while he is at killer's lunging distance. Killer doesn't lunge? Survivor doesn't need to DH, just drop the pallet. Chase extended successfully. Killer does lunge? Survivor reacts to the lunge and uses DH. Chase extended successfully.
And no, lets not bring the argument that sometimes i'm seeing. "Reacting lunges is actually hard!!!", cmon, everytime i lunge on anywhere on the map, i eat a DH. Maybe i'm against the survivors with the most superhuman possible reaction time? Nah, it's easy to react to lunge.
Also, please, let's not bring again the "doesn't work 70% of the time!!!". For a perk to almost never work, still a meta perk for 6 damn years.
You know what would happen if that situation was real, right? Let's make that when you jump over a window, there is a 70% chance Lithe doesnt even work. When the last gen is repaired, there is a 70% change Adrenaline doesn't even work.
The list can go on. Do you know what would happen right? Ignoring the fact that those perks could maybe get kill switched, NO ONE would actually even use them. Why would anyone use them then? "Fun" perk or not, it wouldnt even work so no need to waste a perk slot with that.
The "it doesnt even work most of the time" has becoming lately a meme already, and it's pretty clear why.
No, because bad ping favors killers. Good luck timing a DH against a killer that will randomly hit you from ten feet away, or just outright ignore that you were mid DH at all.
Also, please explain how you think DH can't be countered 70% of the time at the same time it's not working 70% of the time.
Dead Hard was so easy to counter that every survivor used it.
most of my hours are in killer alone lmao, I've only recently began playing survivor more often. This is just my personal experience but more often than not it's incredibly easy to wait out the .5 seconds at a pallet then just swing before they can drop the pallet. also who says you have to swing? If they DH at the pallet and stun you they don't get that much distance and their exhaustion kicks in.
Or red paint brush lmao