Devs just watch this and explain please.

aurum_exe

The video speaks by itself. Is it a melee weapon or he's shooting? It happened today and many different other times. I just thought i wanted to grab a proof on vid. How can this be considered a "hit"? How many hits we get in game that are "not hits"? Do you will fix this eventually? You give us new content, and we love that, but do you will make something for this? Is it planned to get fixed soon or later?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNahFoG8BcA

PiedPiper365

@aurum_exe said:

lmao, you both clearly are killers main, and i get that, but his weapon didn't even touched my butt... it ended right behind the wall. If you say it's a hit, good for you but i suggest a pair glasses. No offence...

Im a killer main but in all honesty that didn't touch u lol so it shouldn't have counted

But all you can do is try and get away and heal urself

RakimSockem

This would be a better example of what OP was trying to prove

https://www.twitch.tv/rakimsockem/clip/BlindingCarelessFennelMcaT

RakimSockem

Hit boxes are definitely broken in this game, but yeah.... idk whether to chalk this one up to the awful hitboxes or the fact that killers have a lag (or call it latency) advantage and get hits that feel like BS to us but look fair to them

Bongbingbing

I'm sorry but that's how hitboxes work, If you want more accurate hit boxes to the point where the killers weapon has to hit the player model then all the killer Weapons and Survivor skins would need to be looked at and adjusted and The Whole game would need to be looked at and changed to rebalanced for smaller model specific hitboxes.

Larisa

looks ok considering ping, hitboxes and poor running :^)

MyNamePete

thanks for the 1 minute video of a 2 second clip showing a standard hit in the video game dead by daylight

StupidPallets

@Rizzo said:

@aurum_exe If you think you can do better, please apply: https://www.bhvr.com/job-opportunities/

Oh im sure many game producers can do better. This is like getting your car engine repaired, complaining to the manager cause it's taking way too long, then them saying, "If you can do better, please apply ..." Jesus, what a snob thing to say to someone who just wants to improve the quality of the game by giving visual evidence.

Kilmeran

@Rizzo said:

@aurum_exe If you think you can do better, please apply: https://www.bhvr.com/job-opportunities/

Nothing like professionalism, huh?

CrispyChestnuts

Dude look at the trail off the weapon in your video, it clears the wall by a lot.

FireHazard

You know... whats happening on his screen and your screen are two completely different points of view right?

So for example, he could have clearly seen his weapon hit you on his screen, while for you it looks like hes a mile away. Also, hit detection in this game is wonky in-general, especially if we're talking about the end of a lunge animation... You'll sometimes get a longer distance for some reason, I can't fully explain it myself, but it happens a lot at pallets for me.

StupidButTru

@Bongbingbing said:

I'm sorry but that's how hitboxes work, If you want more accurate hit boxes to the point where the killers weapon has to hit the player model then all the killer Weapons and Survivor skins would need to be looked at and adjusted and The Whole game would need to be looked at and changed to rebalanced for smaller model specific hitboxes.

So in other words make their game better I'm fine with it.

Mat_Sella

May i just say, that was hilarious to watch. not just because of the hit, but because of the slowdown.

ProfessorDunwich

@Rizzo said:

@aurum_exe If you think you can do better, please apply: https://www.bhvr.com/job-opportunities/

The sass is not helpful. Most of have spent a significant amount of the money in this game and expecting hitboxes function at the most rudimentary level is not too much to ask.

ad19970

@aurum_exe said:

Ok so, this is what i've understood so far from this discusssion:

1) It seems that killers main are happy how the things are because they can have hits for free to satisfy their somewhat needs. Good. They see "a butt tap" where there is clearly a WALL between my butt and his melee weapon (that hits just the air), the empty space in the middle and me. Aaaaight. Seems logic at first sight but fail.

2) Pings issues, delay issues, p2p, lags. Blabberish. I played Unreal Tournament (made with Unreal Engine in the '99) when multiplayer games were played with a 56k/s baud modem (so well far from the high speed internet we have nowadays) and hits were just perfect. No lag, no ping issues, no nothing. It was P2P and was PERFECT. That is the main reason why Unreal Engine is considered great for multiplayer supported games. Characters had active colliders directly attached to joints. So if you pointed at the arm, the character were registering a hit (melee or shoot) in that precise arm. Period. I'm a developer too. I know what i'm talking about. This is just a failure in game/concept design.

3) Killers are Behavior Interactive favourite pets, and i understand that: they sell killers, so marketing wise this is pure logic, and they don't wanna bother them too much. If killers cry because they are not able to manage 4 potatoes on the playground, Behavior Interactive give them something to be happy with, like hatchets passing straight through colliders or characters or very arguable vault/lunges. Good.

4) If you have 2 distinct perspectives (killer first person and surv third person) sorry but you have to find a way to be fair and correct with both categories. If the killer, from his perspective "hits" your butt, then from surv perspective should be visually the same, or at least very close. Just for fairness and correctness, not just for whim. I love this game, really, it's a good idea (not original but good), but that doesn't make too much sense.

5) A "cone"?! Really? Devs explained million times that and you just accept their explainations as part of a "game mechanic", just because it comes from the devs? Really? If you think so it's becuse you don't know that there are many way to fix this, easily! As Behavior Interactive developers knows very well (at least i hope they do) there is another way to register "hits" and it is a Physic Raycast. Basically it's a ray starting from an origin point placed on the killer that register every collision and returns back what it get. Is it a surv? Register a hit on the surv. It's a wall? Then register a hit in the wall. No "invisible cones" whatsoever. It's a shooting weapon? Define a range for it with a Raycast. It's a melee weapon, like for example a hammer? Attach the hit registerer directly to the hammer. Easy and it's also performance wise. So a hit it's a hit for both and nobody have something to complain anymore. Characters joints (arms and body) can be manipulated via C++ with active Inverse Kinematic thoward surv joints when Raycast register a hit. No rocket science here. Just normal trigonometry.

6) I love the game, i have almost 700 hours so i can consider myself a fan of the game, but what i've learned from my degree in game design, is that there are no issues that are unsolvable, and your job is to solve issues when you sell a game. This is not a "free-2-play". You pay for it and for every DLC. And there is also a "rank system". Why put a rank system in a game that register hits in a arguable fashion? That makes even more less sense.

I mean like many have said it's probably just an animation issue. So it just doesn't show that hit properly on the survivors side of the game. So your first point doesn't really make sense. This would have been a hit regardless if it was shown properly on your side of the game or not.

The last thing we need is for the devs to have to balance around weapon sizes of killers as well. I don't think that would be good.

Of course there are those bs hits, but that's either latency, or some weird hitbox bug, since it doesn't happen that often.

Frosty

Son this isn't darksouls.

aurum_exe

Thanks for those who have understood my point. Considering the fact that Dead By Daylight isn't free2play, we pay for the game and for the new contents in the game, i just said that things could be better optimized for a better game experience BEFORE introducing new killers etc. The game lost in 4 months almost 50.000 players, and sorry guys but Demogorgon isn't going to change the situation, unless devs decide to put their hands on a better optimization plan. Dedicated servers will give a considerable improvement on the game experience, no doubt, but to fix the issues they had in the last PTB, they have to rewrite/fix a lot of stuff to adapt the game. This is due to a bad optimization work at the origin of the project. Maybe in the beginning of the project, they didn't expect so much attention or success, and only now they are trying to fix as much as they can. But how it is right now, Dead By Daylight is a great idea, fun to play, but looks like an early prototype stage.

So here i sum my proposal for improvements and i would even push myself to create a prototype to prove my point, and not with Unreal (that is way too easy for networking games) but with Unity! More hard... more glory! XD

1) Active Trigger/Collisions should be on joints/bones of the survivors. Period. Not just "capsules". If you look to modern games, Team Fortress 2 for example (definately not Dark Souls), the first person and third person isn't an issue at all. All characters has colliders on joints/bones (if you hit at the head it hit the head not the air!), and the game works just close to perfection. We are talking about "good optimization", not witchcrafting.

2) Drop that BS "cone" on killer and put a Physic Raycast from an origin point on Killer's root. The center of his camera would be good. That Raycast happens in just 1 frame, as soon as the player/killer hit the left mouse button to hit his prey. 1 FRAME not 100. 1! There lag BS totally gone. What the raycast HIT in that precise frame, comes back and tells to Game Manager what it HIT. Was it a surv? Then register a hit on the surv. Is it a wall? Then register the hit on the wall and adjust the animations of the third person killer character accordingly with an IK/FK solver. Easy. So no more arguable hits behind walls from survivors point of view etc.

3) Never start coding a multiplayer game in P2P! Never. Do you have sufficient budget at your disposal to create dedicated servers from the beginning, and code the server while you're coding your game? Good. If no, just do mobile games. Easy. I don't wanna be sassy or salty, believe me, but this is what it is if you sell a multiplayer game. People expect more optimization job. In the '90s we had multiplayers games with ######### 56k/s baud modems! With all the crappy noise generated by very old line cables! Well Unreal Tournament was working just PERFECT because they spent a lot of time optimizing their product. People pay for DbD. They pay cash and they should deserve something a bit more optimized. That's it.

KrazyKat1011123

@aurum_exe said:

lmao, you both clearly are killers main, and i get that, but his weapon didn't even touched my butt... it ended right behind the wall. If you say it's a hit, good for you but i suggest a pair glasses. No offence...

eh compared to other videos it was pretty close

Peanits

You are definitely within the killer's range in this clip. You're close to the edge of the attack cone there, but without a doubt still in range. Adding to that, the killer is also the host, so you can expect a little bit of latency. Even 100 ping is a tenth of a second. A tenth of a second when you're moving at 4m/s is 0.4m, to put it into perspective. Latency is not something you can ever get rid of it, it's a fact of online games.

aurum_exe

There are many ways to fix "latency". I know that latency is physiological in online games, but there are algorithms written to predict or get very close to that latency. If you remove that "cone" and write a proper Physic Raycast, that happens in just one frame, you can adjust and smooth synch the characters based on that latency. Not only. With Physic Raycast you can also adjust the joint/bones of the third person killer in the direction of the hit origin, writing an Inverse Kinematic solver. This is how many multiplayer games works. Just play DOOM and you have 10/15 players on the map that shoot hundreds of projectiles every second, and the game just run perfect. Yeah they have dedicated servers, i know that, but it's the concept that has to be optimized from the beginning. Latency is predictable! They use Raycast to register hits on colliders, not "cones", that can read hits even through walls (?!?). If you don't do anything for these stinky hitboxes you're going to lose more players, because it generate frustration and take away all the fun. DbD is a fun game and you should not ruin players experience. That's all i have to say about it.

https://web.cs.wpi.edu/~claypool/mqp/latency-comp/imcneil-mbeyler-mqpreport.pdf

StupidButTru

@Peanits said:

You are definitely within the killer's range in this clip. You're close to the edge of the attack cone there, but without a doubt still in range. Adding to that, the killer is also the host, so you can expect a little bit of latency. Even 100 ping is a tenth of a second. A tenth of a second when you're moving at 4m/s is 0.4m, to put it into perspective. Latency is not something you can ever get rid of it, it's a fact of online games.

He's learning you, you might wanna pick up some tips to make your game better.

aurum_exe

I don't wanna resume a dead topic but, here is what happened to Puppers yesterday night, and he is not clearly happy. Same map. Attack "cone" is garbage devs. Play at your game (i barely believe you do it) and you will realize it by yourself.

https://clips.twitch.tv/FrigidSmellyMeatloafPeteZaroll

https://clips.twitch.tv/FrigidSmellyMeatloafPeteZaroll

aurum_exe

Here another one.

https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingBashfulCurryNononoCat

https://clips.twitch.tv/ShakingBashfulCurryNononoCat

swager21

@aurum_exe said:

The video speaks by itself. Is it a melee weapon or he's shooting? It happened today and many different other times. I just thought i wanted to grab a proof on vid. How can this be considered a "hit"? How many hits we get in game that are "not hits"? Do you will fix this eventually? You give us new content, and we love that, but do you will make something for this? Is it planned to get fixed soon or later?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNahFoG8BcA

trust me its worse when the killer is connecting from jupiter