EGC idea - False Hatch
The End Game Collapse is a welcome edition to the game IMO as it fixes a lot of hostage/standoff issues, particularly with the hatch.
HOWEVER, I personally feel that EGC favors killers way too heavily. If killer closes the hatch, the last guy is basically dead unless the exit gates are far apart, and even then against a killer with high mobility it doesn't matter. I main Spirit, and since reset I have had at most 2 people escape from me after I closed the hatch. As survivor, I have only escape through the gate after killer closed the hatch about 3 times. It's pretty much guaranteed that the killer will get you in EGC after they close the hatch. And since killer can roam the map faster, they are in a bigger advantage to find the hatch first. In fact, as Spirit I often will slug with 2 survivors left, find the hatch, then take the hook and rush to hatch to close it. There is nothing the survivor can do outside of having a key or just getting lucky.
So what if there were 2 hatches that spawned? BUT there is a catch. One hatch is FAKE and does not actually open, instead despawning when the REAL hatch opens (or maybe blocked by the Entity). This would mean that killer would need to find BOTH hatches before killing the third survivor, and then pick which one they think will be the real hatch. Survivors are put in this situation too, as they can also pick the wrong hatch. Maybe even both players pick the same hatch which could lead to some interesting encounters depending if it's real or fake.
The idea here is to simply increase the luck a bit for the last survivor to make EGC a bit more fair without destroying the positive impact EGC has on the game. Killer would still have the advantage, as they would still be able to close the hatch and trigger EGC like is currently, but it's not so guaranteed that they can just always get the last guy if they found hatch.
Comments
You asked for solutions, I gave them to you. Now you move the goalpost.
The gate opened faster at the start of PTB, but then reverted it back to the normal time. Maybe check your facts before you make a fool of yourself.
And Remember Me was never meta anyway. I don't think it needed to be nerfed as much as it was, but regardless that doesn't change anything about the current situation. Stop trying to derail the conversation with irrelevant things.
LOL but they aren't solutions is my point. Expecting survivors to ALWAYS bring a key or a specific perk does not solve the fundamental issues with the mechanic. There is no goal post moving, you just missed the goal is all.
Even in that case, a smart survivor can light 1 or 2 bulbs in an exit gate and go look for the other one, hide and wait for the killer to leave and resume progress on the same one, etc. It opens the door for gate mindgames.
If a potato survivor runs straight to the closest gate and mindlessly tries it to open and waits for the last instant to try to run away from it if the killer is coming (exactly as they do when working on gens), it's an almost guaranteed kill, yes. Because he treated the gate as a gen/looping situation. Thus, a mistake.
Maybe you're 95ing that situation with a Prayer Beads Spirit/Mother Daughter Ring Spirit or a Double engraving/M&A Billy, but any smart survivor will hear the TR and hide right away, trying to lure the killer into wondering if he left for the other gate? is he hiding around? is he inside a locker? etc
"Do this to prove me right. If it doesn't turn out the way I claim, it's because you did it wrong."
You see the issue with that?
It's a decent suggestion but I've noticed a lot of people here do not like change regardless of whether it makes the game better or not.
I also think EGC is slightly killer sided but rng can swing it back to the survivors favour undeservingly in a lot of cases.
Point taken.
But what I want you to see is that if the killer takes the most optimal path, then it's basically a free kill. If you follow that formula then you should get that last kill almost every time. And those times where you don't get the kill, it won't be because the survivor outplayed you, it would be because you made a mistake. There is a big difference here. What I'm asking for is that the survivor be given a fair opportunity to outplay you without having to rely on you making a mistake. Hence why I reference old DS, because it was unfair to killers as the only reliable counter was to just hope the guy misses the skill check. If you pick up someone with DS and get the hook, you didn't do anything special, THEY messed up. With new DS, you can do things to outplay their DS, namely slugging or just waiting out the timer. That is the difference.
If I come over to the gate as see the lights on I will know you were just there. If I see scratchmarks, I follow them and find you. If I don't, then you are walking/crouching meaning you have to be very close. And I don't exactly need to find you, I can just continue to patrol the gates keeping a closer eye on the one with progress. You are in a losing position, there is no mind gaming the gates despite what you may think.
Ok, and there's no point to discuss it any further, since you've made up your mind already and I'm just wasting my time here.
You already know the devs won't do anything unless their stats show any significant tilt, or they actively want to promote any kind of result.
A smart survivor would start the gate, then leave. Baiting the killer to do exactly as you proposed and than using that time to open the other gate.
A smart survivor would die because they wouldn't be able to traverse from one gate to the other without me finding them or the EGC timer running out. If they run, I see scratch marks and find them. If they walk, then they are slowed down and I can just scour the optimal paths from one door to the next.
Really what you are suggesting is just not feasible if the killer plays optimally. You either get caught or the EGC timer expires.
Whatever you say, but this thread got a "BHVR read" status so that means the devs have seen it and may take it into consideration.
Not to mention that I'm fairly positive their stats will show that closing the hatch results in a 4k almost all the time. I have seen too many games, from both sides, end with the last survivor dying after hatch is closed for them to NOT see a problem.
Stealth builds exist.
I've had no problems with the gates since the change. Maybe increase the minimum distance a bit. But that's about it.
Other than that I accept my defeat and say gg to the killer.
Good, let's see if a chain of successes on one side and failures from the other, is still worthy to be rewarded with "fair" chances.
Doesn't matter, stealth is slow. If you try to stealth your way out of EGC you will die from the timer. You have to YOLO at the exit gate for even a sliver of a chance to escape.
Why do you want to punish the killer for doing their job and mess with the game finally scaling up in difficult properly for survivor as more of them die off? You're asking for a mechanic that punishes the killer for being aware of the map when survivors legit have access to actual maps and addons to track hatch spawns. This is like third or forth idea in this vein of "Killers can close the hatch now, but what if they also needed to do [insert extra nonsense] so that survivors had another chance?"
Survivors are the most dominate they've ever been. I'm sorry that solo survivors are getting shafted in a lot of cases, but that is true. We now know that since egc came out that 41% of solo survivors are escaping on average. That is a pretty significant number considering the circumstances. That number just go up by 7-8% if you're in a 4man swf. That is nearly 50% success rate for survivors. Even the highest tiered killers aren't putting up numbers quite that good. Now not all survivors can take advantage of the things that are making survivors very strong. Maybe they don't have items and addons or haven't bought the teachables that make the stronger builds on their preferred survivor.
What happens to the game if we add these extra mechanics for killers to jump through to do their job? How are killers that are already struggling because they aren't mobile and can't apply pressure to the game early on? How are you rewarding the killers that have pressured the game early and gotten their kills to now be in a properly earned position of power?
@TAG
A way to prevent hour long games.
"Why do you want to punish the killer for doing their job and mess with the game finally scaling up in difficult properly for survivor as more of them die off?"
Scaling up the difficulty is one thing, making it absolutely impossible is another.
"Survivors are the most dominate they've ever been."
Infinites removes. Pallets reduced. Maps adjusted to have less cover. Strong perks nerfed. EGC. Yea, survivors are definitely more dominate than before SMH.
"We now know that since egc came on that 41% of solo survivors are escaping on average. That is a pretty significant number considering the circumstances. That number just up by 7-8% if you're in a 4man swf. That is nearly 50% success rate for survivors."
The stats were taken sometime around the first week of April. EGC didn't hit until a month later. What you say here is just flat out wrong in the current state of the game.
"How are you rewarding the killers that have pressured the game early and gotten their kills to now be in a properly earned position of power?"
If fake hatch was a thing, killer still has PLENTY of power in this situation. Only instead of a guaranteed 4th kill, they will need to actually outplay their opponent. Currently, there is no need to outplay the survivor, you just need to not screw up so bad you let them get out.
Can't it be both?
I snorted lol
That would give the last survivor another 2nd chance depending on RNG/luck.
The only change to the EGC that I'd like to see is a min/max distance between exit gates, so that the last survivor has a fair chance to open a gate, depending on his skill and not on luck.
If you think it's unfair toward the survivors then you can always do things to make it more fair. Like perhaps just hook the survivors and don't slug them and look for the hatch. Then it is more of a 50/50 chance who finds the hatch first. Or you could close the hatch and only guard one gate, again making it more of a 50/50. But changing the whole game in a way that would annoy 90% of the players so 10% would be happier seems like a bad decision.
Of course. But I'm okay with it because now the hatch opens for the last survivor no matter what. It's a fair exchange.
You've already outplayed them and their whole team. The fact that they get an extra chance at all is good enough.
Wouldnt it be far easier to hide progress on the doors? It doesnt even have to hide all progress. Just like the first 2 lights.
That could work too but it doesn't solve the issue that hatch is rather worthless at this point. Like why not just have EGC start instantly when the last survivor dies? That's what I'm trying to get at here.
Did you really though? If I'm a top tier survivor but I'm stuck with 3 potato survivors, there is only so much I can do. On a 1v1 basis I could outplay you all day, make you chase me for a long time or rush gens if you are chasing others. But if the others aren't doing gens while I'm being chased, or if they get caught super fast while I'm on a gen, there isn't a whole lot I can do. Eventually the odds just stack against me for no reason except OTHER survivors were bad. I'm getting punished for them being bad. And no it's not a team game. Other players being bad shouldn't negatively affect me so much that it's an automatic loss beyond my control.
Furthermore, if survivors DC or kill themselves on the hook, that screws over other survivors. This just exacerbates the above situation. No matter how good you are at survivor, if the others are bad or give up you are screwed in the process.
What you are basically saying is that you outplayed 3 survivors therefore the last one was outplayed as well. That's not the case, you actually outplayed 3 survivors and the last one was just SOL and had no options of recovery. That's part of the reason hatch exists in the first place (the other part being a way to prevent endless games of hide and seek).