Comm wheel will be a flop if you allow a toggle.
"Brings all player groups closer in terms of communication, this will also give the design team the ability to balance killers more effectively as survivors they go against will vary less in shareable information"
This sounds great! … but the problem is it isn't going to do that if you allow people to toggle it on and off.
The only way I see a toggle working is if survivors are split into no comm wheel lobbies vs comm wheel lobbies in the back-end, that way players are not getting frustrated when they load into matches and people just have the comm wheel disabled.
Yeah some people dont enjoy it, but they need to get used to it or be put into there own lobbies where its only surviours who dont want to be using the comm wheel.
Like how if you turn off crossplay you only get put with others who have it turned off, not dragging people who do have it on into them.
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I think I would honestly be ok with that compromise as well.
Remove the hard disable of the system, but keep the mute individual players after you have loaded into the game, sure some people will just mute everyone at start of every match but i think some people will come around to trying it.
vs just having a option tucked away in setting you click once and never have to bother with it again.
I think the individual mute option is a nice middle ground. It still requires proactive action every match to opt out.
It'll be a flop either way.
It's not a nice middle ground if someone doesn't want to use a non-mandatory feature in a game they own they should be able to toggle it off once and be done with it instead of needing to toggle off 3 players at the start of every match. We don't need to aggravate that set of players at the start of every match as we know there are consequences to unnecessary aggravation in DbD.
I don't get this mindset of "Well you don't want to use the feature so we're going to punish you every game for it."
It's the only way forward for soloq. It should be a mandatory part of the game that should take effort to deactivate. Give me a reason why you should not want that information.
If voice coms were added they would put in a mute button. You know why? Because people are #########.
i cant wait for aces to demand i do unintelligent plays with pings and then throwing a tantrum because im going to do what i know to be the smart play.
The chat wheel will be nice, but i doubt its usefullness will be as high as the fantasy is. people do not effectively use what they have already and alot of people think they are better at the game then they are and its just going to be alot of egos demanding others do what they want them to do.
ill utilize the wheel from time to time, but at the end of the day, your chat ping is unlikely to make me do something specific as i probably know a smarter move to make then you demanding you get healed under hook 10 feet away from the killer
What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
We have yet to see if it's actually good. Looking at the options we have for the wheel it looks like the only use for it that isn't already done by the HUD will be signaling intent to go for a hook save or maybe spamming Help! when chasing a fellow survivor who never looks behind them for a heal/to heal them (I'd rather be able to throw a snowball). This feature doesn't come close to what voice comms can do where it's "I'm looping the killer at shack, I dropped shack pallet, she has 3 hatchets left."
Until the feature is proven to be a reasonable improvement over gameplay without it and not abuseable through months of testing on live servers it should have a single toggle. Just like how they changed the wiggle mechanic which was in beta for IIRC a year before they took away the option to use the old wiggle system, even though the old wiggle was a clear disadvantage as it always took longer to wiggle off due to not having skill checks.
Which is exactly why we shouldn't allow a toggle. If everyone turns it off at the start, how are we going to know how good it is?
This feature will probably be on by default and if it's actually good people will use it or at least leave it on. If it isn't good or they just don't like it, they can turn it off without it being a hassle every game. What's the problem?
Again: What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
I've asked this question 3 times in this thread now and no one has even tried to answer it. It's all just "It ShOuLd Be MaNdAtOrY!" *foot stamping*
Assuming everyone will turn it off at set off is kinda weird?
And even assuming everyone is doing so, that should not be a reason to state there should be no toggle? Making it mandatory is not the way to go imho
It's really weird. A system like this should be opt in in the beginning to test the waters, and it's not like even if it's mandatory anyone will use it unless it's "auto chat" type things(touch a Gen and stating "repairing Gen" immediately)
Never said anything against a beta phase. I see a beta phase and development on that feature, but ultimately opting out should be non-favorable in the future.
This is where ill disagree people should not be able to just turn it off in a setting hidden away in setting menu if they are gonna be put in my ques.
I find it curious that you are concerned about making people who want the comm wheeel off aggravated, But when its the comm wheel people being agravated by the non comm wheel people its ok?
This is why people want a middle ground and current system we got teased is too far in favour of people who dont want to engage with the system, letting them never have too with one click of a button forever.
If you dont like that middle ground lets go back to splitting ques idea as both sides would be non aggravated by the other.
As I have said multiple times, allowing a toggle option will defeat the purpose of having it in the first place. Why even add this system if they're going to allow people to opt out of it? I haven't seen an answer to that question either.
And as Random said, this could cause even more friction between players, particularly those who have the system enabled and those who don't. And we already have more than enough friction between players as it is.
Because the system is still unproven to be actually useful, not annoying and not abusable. Until that happens it should have a simple toggle.
SoloQ is bad enough as it is, we don't need to be annoyed by an as yet unproven system or having to do multiple actions to disable it at the start of every match. If after a period of at least 3 months the system has proven itself to be useful, unobtrusive and not abuseable then they can remove the toggle option.
Thankfully, BHVR appears to have already put the toggle in place as they'd rather have people playing DbD with it on or off rather than having players choose not to play survivor because they can't turn off a feature they don't like.
Also, usage stats are useful. It's a very easy way to directly measure if it is good or not.
Until there's a real answer to:
What do you see in what's been shared about this feature that is so good that it should be mandatory for players to use it?
There needs to be a toggle.
"A toggle defeats its purpose" is not enough.
But we have no way to prove it works if people are just disabling it and the ques are not split so we can get the data on how it actually effect the average match.
Usage stat is not useful if people turn it off day one and never engage with it, that shows nothing but unwillingness to engage with the system at all.
At least if ques where split, devs could see clearly in the data where improvements, if any where made in comm wheel lobbies.
I can give reasons to your question but that question does not take away from points raised in this form, but to be clear not here to argue weather it would work as stated it defiantly wont work if we dont give it a chance too just want to answer your question.
"going for unhook" is a really good callout because alot of times in solo 2 people will be going to save assuming the other person is afk or they may be sitting right next to hook on gen making progess as someone just sits on hook but someone runs from other side of map not realizing because HUD does not show that nuance.
"repair" can be used on hook when team mates may be all bundling to try and save you, showing you care more about gen progress over being saved quickly, I would prefer it say "focus on gen repairs" tho as its more clear what is wanting to be done like it was worded in dbd mobile.
"chasing me" are good for stealth killers, a wraith running after you cloaked does not trigger the HUD chase, would also like to see "killer is looking for new target" like they had in dbd mobile
Ones like healing do need to be adjusted to something like "focus on healing" as healing we know when people are doing that.
Again not here to argue if it WILL do that, because we wont know if people have it disabled right of bat and are put with people who do want to be testing limits of the system.
Yawn. We're going in circles.
Until it's tested and proven feature it needs to have a simple toggle. That cannot be denied logically.
If there is a split que, people who want to play quick matches will join the one with bigger numbers, and if it so happens to be the one where you can't delisable it by default they will mute everyone mid game just to spite people.
Which will muddy the waters, thus making the information we get unreliable. And you can't prevent mute mid match because there will be jerks who will spam it when they can.
Some will just put on the terror radius heart and mute the game otherwise, which will still muddy the waters.
Forcing it to stay enabled is not good, because unless you make sure the testing environment perfect, the testing information will be unreliable.
but needs to be tested without a toggle or different ques, it will never get the chance to be a tested and proven feature if half the player base just disable it day one and get qued with people who want to use it. I feel like that is more logical.
Right now the toggle is going to be a Uncontrolled variable in the testing,
I think it should be a controlled one so comm wheel can have full potential hence mainly wanting the split ques
so we will have to agree to disagree. 🤝
That will still be lower then the number of people that will disable it and never think about it never again if they where just chucked with people who are wanting to use it.
And honestly I dont think that will be the case at all, It feels like its split enough people who want if off wont have issues finding a match with others who are like minded. the casual play-base on facebook seem to all gonna disable it day one from what ive seen on feed.
If there is no toggle, BHVR cannot reliably and directly measure the acceptance and rejection of the feature.
Also they will only have be able to measure:
And they'd have nothing to compare it to aside from games from before the feature was introduced.
If there is a toggle, BHVR can directly measure the usage rate of the feature and they'll be able to directly in the same timeframe compare:
And also compare:
Now can you see how having a toggle would lead to better data to inform their decisions rather than not having a toggle?
I do agree with that logic on how the just removing it would lead to worse data and that data would be more useful but here my main worry with how its currently going to be implemented.
People who are wanting to take advantage of the system are to commonly put into lobbies with people who just have it disabled, leading to the people who did want to use it getting frustrated from never getting full lobby of it enabled and just not using it anymore and never getting used to using it because others opting out effected them, not because system is bad.
Thats main reason for wanting to split ques, but I do see how data may be useful to have data from the middle matches.
Perhaps not a split que but matchmaking takes into account matching people with comm wheel together more heavily, but its not a hard split que?
If they wanted to test that out, maybe they could release it for a fraction of the players, like they've done before with new features. (The prestige visibility removal in the pre-game lobby, for example?)
While I personally don't have too much of an issue with the toggle, I do think this argument is a bit strange, I hope you don't mind me jumping in to ask you a few things.
Namely, I'm curious why the data for players who have it disabled needs to come from after the system was added. BHVR have all those stats for the current patch, before this system was added, why can't they use that as the comparison point for games with the system enabled?
It's also not at all unreasonable to point out that if even one person disables the system, that's going to affect the value of the data you get, right?
Say you have the system enabled and ping that you're going for the unhook, but the one person who disabled the system thinks they're in the best position to go for it. That otherwise very useful callout is now worthless because the person who needed to hear it opted out of the system from minute one and caused that immediate inefficiency.
Now, personally, I think the toggle being opt out means most players will keep it enabled even if they don't actively use it, meaning they still benefit passively from others using it and the data on its usefulness will still be fairly accurate overall, but I do think we need to acknowledge that the system being turned off by even one person harms the accuracy of the data for those matches.
Judging by what's been announced, it's very likely that this chat intent wheel is going to drop with a patch that is going to include a meta shakeup where 40 perks are going to be changing at the same time. So comparisons of games before and after the patch for the efficacy of the chat wheel won't be very useful.
I agree with you that the feature being opt out will mean that most players (99%+ I'd predict) will leave it on unless it's annoying, abuseable or not useful enough. If 90% or more of players leave it on I think there'd be grounds for removing the toggle. But it appears to me that people like @random1543 and @CrypticGirl are assuming that a large fraction of players will reject the feature out of hand and turn it off without even trying it and I very much doubt that that's actually going to happen.
Over the years I've seen BHVR launch so many ideas into the live game undercooked and sometimes broken, so I am all for a toggle until the system is proven. If the system launches and it's fine and 90%+ leave it on even if only 50% actually use the wheel then get rid of the toggle. It could be as little as 6 weeks. I don't think that's unreasonable.