Lithe and Sprint Burst need nerfs. Really bad.
Lithe and Sprint Burst, the two most popular Exhaustion Perks in the game. Let me preface this by saying that I actually like Exhaustion Perks. I think that they offer Survivors a great option in case and can be really fun, interesting and effective to build around. However, any enjoyment I have over Exhaustion Perks immediately gets soured by the existence of these two Perks specifically. Not only do non-Dash Killers (most Killers that already struggle as is) struggle to deal with it, but their incredible ease of use also renders every other Haste-based Exhaustion Perks that can be used in Chase obsolete. Represented by the current Nightlight standings, Lithe sits at a whopping approximate 22% overall usage rate while Sprint Burst is not that far behind at 14%. Respectively according to the site, they're the 2nd and 7th place Survivor Perks in terms of usage.
Part of the reason why these two Perks are so popular is how rewarding they are to use in contrast to how much work you have to do to get them to proc. With Sprint Burst, it procs by running while you're not exhausted. Lithe triggers with a rushed vault while not exhausted. Compare that to the least popular Exhaustion Perks of its kind with Overcome and Smash Hit. Overcome has a real condition where the Survivor has to take a damage state in order to get its benefits on top of not being exhausted. Meanwhile, Smash Hit is a much trickier and finite Perk to trigger thanks to needing to pallet stun the Killer. Therefore, Smash Hit has a bigger payoff for having the most conditional trigger with 1 second more of 50% Haste and 20 second Exhaustion (half of the other Perks described).
...but that also leads into the crux of where nerfs should be focused: the Exhaustion amounts. Why does Sprint Burst and Lithe operate with the same amount of Exhaustion as less popular perks to use like Balanced Landing and Overcome? If the goal is to make a wider variety of Exhaustion Perks more appealing for Chase, I find that it is important to play around with numbers here over anything else. Currently, Vigil (another Perk that really shouldn't exist in its current state, but that's for a different thread) cuts 14 seconds off of Sprint Burst and Lithe, turning 40 second Exhaustions to 26 second Exhaustions. That is absolutely ridiculous as it means a lot more of these two Exhaustion Perks over the course of the game.
Sprint Burst is the lesser of the two Perks, so it'll receive a lighter nerf. After all, it is a beginner-friendly Perk since it is on Meg who is intended to be a baseline Survivor for newcomers to pick up and play. Plus, Sprint Burst does have a real drawback with running at all triggering the Haste before Exhaustion happens, which makes it easy to misuse. I feel that making its Exhaustion 80/70/60 seconds would be a fair nerf, especially considering how current Vigil would more or less bring those values down to pre-nerf levels. Still usable on its own while fitting as a newbie Perk with niche but still prevalent usage rates at higher levels of play.
...Lithe however should get the lion's share of nerfs. Compared to all other Exhaustion Perks, Lithe offers the easy proc condition of Rushed Vaults (something that plays very naturally into Chase with Killer as is) without having the accidental trigger condition of Sprint Burst. Every time Lithe is used, it is always intentionally done so by anyone who already knows the ins and outs of the game. It also pairs extremely well naturally with Resilience and Finess (two other very popular Survivor Perks with respective usage rates of 20% and 13%), highlighting just how effective these combinations of Perks are. With its level of ease to use, flexibility and overall strength, it might be fair to make Lithe have an Exhaustion of 140/130/120 seconds would be more than appropriate. Even with this nerf, it would still be very popular as it'd still be easy to use. It'd just require a lot more build-around to work with its very high Exhaustion timer more often.
The point of these nerfs aren't for the sake of nerfing because they're popular and I hate them. But rather, it's because the stats of these two Perks have overcentralized the design of Exhaustion Perks in Chase by making then objectively the best Perks of this class to use over other such Perks. This also shuts out future design space for other potential Exhaustion Perks BHVR can make because they'll have to compete with Sprint Burst and Lithe existing (why would anyone run any other Chase-oriented Exhaustion Perks BHVR makes if it's not on the tier of usability as Sprint Burst and Lithe?). Ultimately, this would be a healthy decision that'd help curb powercreep.
Do you agree with the suggestions for nerfs, or am I just complaining for nothing and these two Perks as they are right now important for the health of the game?
Also to acknowledge the Elephant in the Room, yes Dead Hard is around the usage levels of Sprint Burst and Lithe. But I think Dead Hard is fittingly appropriate right now as an anti-tunnel Perk. Not easy to use, but provides plenty of reward while also having a very purpose in the current state of the game.
Comments
Very much disagree with Lithe being the more problematic of the two. I can't tell you how many times I've downed someone that was risky vaulting specifically to trigger it. It does have some risks, especially on crappy edgemap vaults. Vault locations also have limits. Pallets become less and less as the match goes on and you run out of good Lithe spots. SB, on the other hand, requires nothing. You can just stand there and wait for the killer and then zoom away to a safe location.
But the real problem is Vigil.
Why? Because we've been here before and it was not fun. Where we are now took years of complaining to balance sprinting type perks.
I understand the feeling of finding a survivor just for them to speed away but it's just something you need to strategize around.
I find this line to be hilarious.
I mostly agree with this. these perks should have an exhaustion numbers tweak. the fact is that survivors are going to get value out of these perks. no matter what, the distance gained is always going to be useful. even if the survivor is playing against Blight or Ghoul, you will still get value out of these perks. maybe not as harsh as an nerf on Lithe as what is being suggested here. I think that 80/70/60 for both is a fair change as long as the actual distance is untouched. let the effect still feel powerful, just happen less often.
Exhaustion perks need different cooldowns and, most important, different amounts of haste. A good balanced landing play should pay off more than a "good" sprintburst play.
Oh and vigil needs a rework. It ######### too much with exhaustion and some niche killer addons.
Nightlight doesn't show either of these perks having a problematic escape rate. If you're arguing that something should be nerfed just because its common this paragraph:
Also to acknowledge the Elephant in the Room, yes Dead Hard is around the usage levels of Sprint Burst and Lithe. But I think Dead Hard is fittingly appropriate right now as an anti-tunnel Perk. Not easy to use, but provides plenty of reward while also having a very purpose in the current state of the game.hurts the argument, because you're saying popular perks should be nerfed, unless you happen to like them.
Only Vigil needs a nerf.
Both perks are strong but I don't think they need a nerf personally.
Sprint burst is wildly annoying for killer. But to conserve sprint burst to use it in the best possible situation, the survivor is imposing slowdown on their own movement, they can't run around the map like everyone else. So by using sprint burst they are hamstringing themselves. Gaining one speed burst in a chase versus passively slowing down their own traversal for a considerable portion of the match. I think the killer gains in pressure and gen progress what they lose in the chase.
As for lithe, it's definitely easier to trigger and does have a lot of synergies, dance with me, quick and quiet, finesse, resilience etc. Imo it's the best exhaustion perk in the game and a regular feature in my survivor builds. Do I think it needs a nerf? Not really. The speed boost is useful for stringing out a chase, but when I play killer, as soon as a survivor hits lithe then I'm comfortable in the knowledge they have used their exhaustion perk, and what does the speed boost get them at the end of the day? They reach another tile. It extends chase a little but I wouldn't say it's broken.
Indeed with the balance state of the game I'd say that exhaustion perks are necessary smfor survs to be able to squeeze that bit extra out of chase to have a dcent chance against killer.