Does anyone think Jason's omni-present evil mode lasting indefinitely is good game design?

The counter is supposed to crouch walking. Well, the problem with that is Jason can stay in his power as long as he wants to. You could be crouch walking forever just waiting on an unknowable duration. It's a bad counter. Jason is like if Spirit could phasewalk with no limits. And don't get me wrong. Jason is mostly balanced. But omni-present evil mode is broken.

Comments

  • Jason is such a weird killer and the "Counterplay" that people are suggesting is so strange.

    So the general counterplay is "Crouch" or actively throw yourself at him to get chases, which has never been a thing in DBD. Even with other killers, including killers who are Anti stealth in their design, still allow for some degree of stealth. Terror radius or lockers can be used to avoid the killer or at least move preemptively but Jason offers no indication and now way to tell if he's right behind you or half way across the map and "the grass moving," is not a reliable way to tell.

    Ok, so you crouch to avoid the killer ok, fair enough, but this is what is starting to happen.

    image.png

    The survivors are loading in, just stealthing waiting for him to find someone. Yes, the survivors know they have to do a gen to win, but they also know if they start a gen he is going to teleport on top of them and the 1st survivor found often the least likely to escape.

    Even if survivors don't do this, this power drags matches out to a crawl. I thought we all agreed that Skull Merchant was miserable to go against because she dragged matches out for 20 minutes? Why is this suddenly fine for Jason? Because he is strong?

    We all agree what the problem is, the omnipresent ability.

  • @NeverSolus said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4089831#Comment_4089831

    I'm not referring to just me on the shout-down. It's a common downvote topic, and it's bizarre to see what wasn't a problem yesterday, suddenly a very real problem today the moment the person effected changes.

    I don't mind people expressing skill in chase, I mind looping. They are free to do so but I will disengage and prey upon someone who is easier to catch. That is also valid - if I can't express my own desires of enjoyment, what is the point of a PVP game?

    My point isn't that I hate people being able to run and bounce around etc. My point is that before Jason, popular opinion on one side was that there was no pallet density issue. Now, suddenly, those same people are saying there is a pallet density issue. It very much leaves us in a position for me to point out that hypocrisy.

    Jason gets pre-broken pallets placed in the locations where no pallet has spawned, so his power is not related to pallet density.

  • Ive found it similar to wraith. Just because you heard wraith go into cloak doesn't mean you'd start hiding and avoiding objectives. Wraith can also see peoples auras in cloak and show up without a sound que. I think as time goes on more people will be less intimidated by being found in omnipresent evil and will just avoid letting it be passive pressure.

  • @SurrealEcho said:

    People complaining about omni when wraith can do the same thing but better….

    It’s not better, you can still see and hear him.

  • @ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:

    Ive found it similar to wraith. Just because you heard wraith go into cloak doesn't mean you'd start hiding and avoiding objectives. Wraith can also see peoples auras in cloak and show up without a sound que. I think as time goes on more people will be less intimidated by being found in omnipresent evil and will just avoid letting it be passive pressure.

    the lack of sound cue is only possible with an offering/add on and that’s literally just for uncloaking. You can also still see him and hear his grunting if you’re observant letting you get a head start on a chase and being able to see auras with him is perk dependant. All these things are basekit with Jason, that’s the point people are making. Jason moves much quicker in his OE form than Wraith does too. Not mention Jason gets haste and inflicts exhausted the latter of which wraith doesn’t.

    There’s literally no reason to play wraith anymore when Jason does everything he does and with the skills and abilities of about 4 other killers to boot.

    This is my main issue with him (and The First) he combines the powers of too many killers making them redundant. Why would you even play Huntress or Trickster now when you can have a ranged weapon you can pick up mid chase without going to a locker and be faster in chase too? Why would you play Animatronic when you can travel round the map without doors and have a ranged weapon that not only sticks into the survivors but impales them into things reducing mobility as well?

    The design is completely problematic on a grander scale than people thinking he’s unbalanced or OP. They’re literally making their legacy killers (and not so legacy ones) redundant.

  • @Icaurs said:

    Jason is such a weird killer and the "Counterplay" that people are suggesting is so strange.

    So the general counterplay is "Crouch" or actively throw yourself at him to get chases, which has never been a thing in DBD. Even with other killers, including killers who are Anti stealth in their design, still allow for some degree of stealth. Terror radius or lockers can be used to avoid the killer or at least move preemptively but Jason offers no indication and now way to tell if he's right behind you or half way across the map and "the grass moving," is not a reliable way to tell.

    Ok, so you crouch to avoid the killer ok, fair enough, but this is what is starting to happen.

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QV5V0VTUUBQ1/image.png

    The survivors are loading in, just stealthing waiting for him to find someone. Yes, the survivors know they have to do a gen to win, but they also know if they start a gen he is going to teleport on top of them and the 1st survivor found often the least likely to escape.

    Even if survivors don't do this, this power drags matches out to a crawl. I thought we all agreed that Skull Merchant was miserable to go against because she dragged matches out for 20 minutes? Why is this suddenly fine for Jason? Because he is strong?

    We all agree what the problem is, the omnipresent ability.

    I stated in another thread that I feel like he should not be able to see the red stain thing of survivor if the survivor is doing objectives. Like if they are cleansing totem, repairing gen, opening chest etc. That way at least the killer has to come to check and listen if the survivor is there an not just see the stain a go pop out. This would give survivors that little security to fix the gens and it would also not hurt to give him longer power charging in the start of the trial.

    How its currently is just grinding the matches to halt anytime he is in power.

  • @TurnOffTheTVs said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090213#Comment_4090213

    And to paraphrase what people keep telling you who repeat that:

    It's a wholly ignorant argument.

    Other killers don't get free info and infinite duration mobility to just permanently scour the map ping ponging from survivor to survivor WITHOUT the need of perks, like Jason can. Other ranged killers aren't 4.6 which makes him oppressive in chase. You will never NOT be in a chase while playing Jason.

    People wouldn't care about getting in a chase with Jason if he wasn't disgustingly oppressive in said chase. I unironically, prefer getting chased by Kaneki than I do Jason. I have more counterplay against Kaneki then I do the 4.6 killer with one of the best ranged attacks in the game.

    Other killers on top of all that, don't also then get to just appear immediately on top of their target, with little to no warning, leaving them no real room to create distance and have a chance. Every single other ranged killer is not only 4.4 but also has plenty of warning that they are coming which lets you actually do what you're meant to do against ranged killers which is create distance. Jason completely skips that and follows his own rules. He gets to just appear with no real warning from 3 feet away, inflict you with exhausted for 13 SECONDS with an addon so you can't even create distance with something like a sprint burst to make up for the fact that he doesn't give you time to get away like every other ranged killer.

    It's literally a lose-lose. You either don't do gens, to which progress is completely halted and you may even lose progress to ruin. Or you do the gen, but then when he shows up you now have to deal with a massively oppressive in chase Jason that just afflicted you with 13 seconds of exhausted because you decided to play the game in his presence. Oh and don't bother trying to do totems to because… he can see that as well!

    He. Is. Poorly. Designed.

    He is not the best killer in the game. He is not even top 3. That does not mean he is not a problem in his own right. His design just stacks too much on top of each other. If you do the counterplay? You get punished. If you don't do the counterplay? You get punished. There's no real correct decision other than force yourself into a chase and pray to god the Jason player can't aim.

    One part of his kit I don't know if its a bug or not. You still scream while still in a locker. So atm if its a bug or a feature not even lockers can counter him.

  • @MrBuffalo said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4090228#Comment_4090228

    One part of his kit I don't know if its a bug or not. You still scream while still in a locker. So atm if its a bug or a feature not even lockers can counter him.

    Its a bug and it would not matter if you don't scream as the locker will not block the killer instinct that he also gets so he would know you are in there.

  • @Wezqu said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4091293#Comment_4091293

    Its a bug and it would not matter if you don't scream as the locker will not block the killer instinct that he also gets so he would know you are in there.

    Ohh right. I forgot he ALSO has killer instinct 🤣

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