PWYF REWORK

Poweas

So basically this perk is super weak and I thought of a rework to balance it outt more, but also help killers with map pressure.

My rework is:

Killers should be able to gain 3 stacks from ignoring their obsession like it is right now, but when they hit any (including the obsession) survivor they do NOT lose a single stack. This sounds broken right? That's why PWYF would only be working outside of chases to make it balanced. Also, when you exit a chase, to keep killers from exploiting it, PWYF would be on a 15 second cooldown.

This helps slow killers with map pressure while not making chases completely broken.

@Peanits or @not_Queen do you think this would work?

Swiftblade131

Now this, is an interesting take that has potential.

Milo

Maybe then more tokens?
But ofc they would give less power

Poweas

@Milo said:
Maybe then more tokens?
But ofc they would give less power

I mean jumping from 115% to 130% with the 3 tokens is a massive change in itself.

Poweas

@Swiftblade131 said:
Now this, is an interesting take that has potential.

Imagine Wraith with it. And it'd help Legion have existing map pressure.

DocFabron

This would definitely help killers with little to no map pressure get around. 

White_Owl

It's interesting, but it bugs me that it doesn't reflect the perk name and it's basically a free speed boost outside of chases.
Imo if the perk allowed to get tokens from all survivors until the obsession is alive it would be a lot more powerful.

Peanits

I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

SlothGirly

What of needing 5 tokens each with 2% movement buff, and a 20 - 30 second cooldown instead. Therein turning PWYF into a more gradual endgame perk instead like a number of the current obsession perks. It would be most potent at endgame, and wouldn't make it over powered and I think would be a beneficial change, only going up to a max of 125% which I'm sure many can agree makes a big differance from 130% but is still a good speed?

PigNRun

I approve! Sounds amazing.

OrionsFury4789

This will make the game I like to play with my friends interesting, we created a mini game we play when ques are  bad and a bunch of us are on, we get Michael Myers and equip PWYF, agitation, unrelenting, and mad grit with the fragrant tuft of hair add on and we go to blood lodge in KYF, everyone has a purple flashlight and plays a shiny coin, Michael tiers all the way up from the start and one person gets chosen at random to start the game and he downs them and then gets PWYF stacks and once it's full he picks them up and starts chasing you with a survivor on his shoulder , he can drop them to break pallets but that's it , once someone else is down you can start wiggling free, your team's job is to try and save the people when he's picking up or while being chased , if you perform a save then Michael has to catch one like normal to start the process again ,there are no gens involved but it's a really fun way to practice flashlight saves and also fun to play Michael the speed is unbelievable LMAO sometimes it's nice to break from the usual

Milo

@Peanits said:
I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

Forgot looking away breaks the chase. WELP this idea goes out of the window immeditaly

Poweas

@Peanits said:
I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

Thanks for responding. Would you think a longer cooldown would work or is the idea in itself flawed?

Peanits

@Poweas said:

@Peanits said:
I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

Thanks for responding. Would you think a longer cooldown would work or is the idea in itself flawed?

I think a longer cooldown would only hurt the idea behind the perk even more. Say you increased it to 30 seconds. Now if you're using it properly you have to wait 30 seconds to get the speed bonus. At that point you probably could have found somebody anyway unless you're playing against the most immersed group around, so the perk would be negligible.

Meanwhile, someone who really struggles in a chase could still just look at the ground and use it to cheese. Say it takes 30 seconds to activate and another 10 to catch up and hit somebody, you're still only looking at 1:20 for a down. If you were not a good killer and that survivor is really outplaying you, that's not a significant amount of time. That's a chase that could have went on for several minutes if they kept playing their cards right.

The point at which the cooldown is too long for the perk to be used properly is way lower than the point where it wouldn't be worthwhile to cheese with it, is the way I see it. If I have to wait too long for it to activate, it wouldn't activate very often because I likely would have found a survivor by then anyway, making it feel like a wasted perk slot. But if I wanted to just cheese the chase mechanics, I could still do that even at a 30 second cooldown, for instance.

powerbats

I can just imagine more exploiting Legions using this to exploit even more.

Poweas

@Peanits said:

@Poweas said:

@Peanits said:
I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

Thanks for responding. Would you think a longer cooldown would work or is the idea in itself flawed?

I think a longer cooldown would only hurt the idea behind the perk even more. Say you increased it to 30 seconds. Now if you're using it properly you have to wait 30 seconds to get the speed bonus. At that point you probably could have found somebody anyway unless you're playing against the most immersed group around, so the perk would be negligible.

Meanwhile, someone who really struggles in a chase could still just look at the ground and use it to cheese. Say it takes 30 seconds to activate and another 10 to catch up and hit somebody, you're still only looking at 1:20 for a down. If you were not a good killer and that survivor is really outplaying you, that's not a significant amount of time. That's a chase that could have went on for several minutes if they kept playing their cards right.

The point at which the cooldown is too long for the perk to be used properly is way lower than the point where it wouldn't be worthwhile to cheese with it, is the way I see it. If I have to wait too long for it to activate, it wouldn't activate very often because I likely would have found a survivor by then anyway, making it feel like a wasted perk slot. But if I wanted to just cheese the chase mechanics, I could still do that even at a 30 second cooldown, for instance.

I see. Thanks.

@powerbats said:
I can just imagine more exploiting Legions using this to exploit even more.

That's why I tried to suggest a cooldown but it wouldn't work out.

Blueberry

This is actually a fantastic idea. Turn it into a perk to improve your map pressure instead of chase speed. +1 for this.

powerbats

@Poweas said:

That's why I tried to suggest a cooldown but it wouldn't work out.

Yeah I'm not sure how you'd avoid that and as @Peanits pointed out other killers could cheese it as well and it's one of those perks that's tough to balance.

No_Mither_No_Problem

I did have a rework of my own, but it's very different from this. My rework is:

You become obsessed with one Survivor. After injuring your obsession in a chase and letting them escape, your movement speed is increased by 5/6/7%. This lasts until the obsession is healed.

legion_main

@Peanits said:

@Poweas said:

@Peanits said:
I feel that even with the out of chase for 15 seconds stipulation, you would still be able to use it to cheese a chase. At three tokens on a 115% killer, you'd be moving at 130% speed and close the distance twice as fast as you normally would. That's basically a free hit at that point, and 15 seconds is not a whole lot of time to get a free hit. That's basically like getting bloodlust 3 at the cost of bloodlust 1, except that speed boost doesn't go away any time you break a pallet or hit someone.

In a perfect world, it would be great, but it also has a huge potential to be used wrong. I wouldn't want to see a meta of people walking backwards or facing the ground to avoid a chase. It would take a lot of skill out of the game and I feel like that's something that's best to avoid.

Thanks for responding. Would you think a longer cooldown would work or is the idea in itself flawed?

I think a longer cooldown would only hurt the idea behind the perk even more. Say you increased it to 30 seconds. Now if you're using it properly you have to wait 30 seconds to get the speed bonus. At that point you probably could have found somebody anyway unless you're playing against the most immersed group around, so the perk would be negligible.

Meanwhile, someone who really struggles in a chase could still just look at the ground and use it to cheese. Say it takes 30 seconds to activate and another 10 to catch up and hit somebody, you're still only looking at 1:20 for a down. If you were not a good killer and that survivor is really outplaying you, that's not a significant amount of time. That's a chase that could have went on for several minutes if they kept playing their cards right.

The point at which the cooldown is too long for the perk to be used properly is way lower than the point where it wouldn't be worthwhile to cheese with it, is the way I see it. If I have to wait too long for it to activate, it wouldn't activate very often because I likely would have found a survivor by then anyway, making it feel like a wasted perk slot. But if I wanted to just cheese the chase mechanics, I could still do that even at a 30 second cooldown, for instance.

Yea but with a 30 second cool down is it even worth doing the cheesy exploits? Maybe instead there’s a way for the killer to lose tokens such as breaking out of a chase with anyone that’s not your obsession loses one token or to add further penalty to it make it so you can only gain tokens when the obsession is injured?