Can we get rid of Map offerings already?
All it does is make killers hard tunnel 1 person and for survivors it's often used to get an "advantage" over the other side, whether that works out or not. Usually leading to the survivors hook-suididing when it doesn't work out in their favour.
It adds zero value to the games. Can we please just get rid of them already??
Comments
Lmao. So I shouldn't bring any extra bloodpoints, or a Mori, just so that I get to have some fun instead of being forced into Badham?
Also, there are 4 survivors per game. You can very easily gamble on whether the killer will bring a map offering, but against 4 survivors? Good luck. You will literally run out of the offering.
And again, even if you don't, this is a stupid argument.
Okay, try playing Billy on Lery's, RPD or Midwitch, especially the new Midwitch. Then tell me he is not map-deppendant and that having skill is the only thing that matters. No matter how good a billy is, in RPD your power usage is HEAVILY limited and your learning skills don't matter because you won't be able to use billy's full potential. Playing killer is not like math, like playing skull merchant is not like chess. Maps DO make a difference beyond skill. Another example, blight on Coldwind is AWFUL in a considerable area of the map and there is nothing you can do, using your power in the corn usually means you have nothing to bump into. Using nurse on indoor maps is awful as well, considering you have no aura reading perks, which you shouldn't be compelled to bring if you don't want to. Map offerings offer both killers and survivors the FAIR chance to go to a map where they feel comfortable and squeeze the maximum potential they posess.
I play Billy and I've never said he is not map dependent - thus there are better examples of map depending killers than Billy. I said some killers have difficult maps but they are still playable, especially when you talk about the three strongest killers in the game. Skill and experience helps you to deal better with rather bad maps for the killers. Also, It is not really fair when you send the otherside to a map that gives you a huge advantage and that you know better than anybody else. This is rather easy mode.
Oh yeah? And you know how all my games or everyone else's go, huh? Do you have all the stats as well, as some others on here think they do?
No side should decide for 4 others what map they play on. If you're that great at the game then it should be absolutely no problem for you to play without offerings then, huh? But you proved my point by saying that you need specific maps just because you want to try one build. Maybe get better at Mikey and his build and learn to play it well on all maps :)
Good for you? That's not the case at all for me, for years, hence why I made this topic. I wouldn't if it wasn't that common of an occurence.
What? Micromanaging is EXACTLY what people do when they put in a map-offering. What are you even saying? You know what, don't even respond to me because I have absolutely zero interest in wasting more of my time on someone who is constantly talking against their own point, makes baseless statements, and isn't good enough to play the game without needing to decide an important factor of the game for 4 others. Then talk to ME about micro-managing for wanting map-offerings not be a thing LMAO. OKAY BRO. Bait and whatnot, huh.
The difference between you and I is you want to take options away from other Players. I just suggest ways you can mitigate what you don't want. The problem with your arguments is that they are not logically sound. Just admit you want to enforce your views on other people. Doing that is you micromanaging them. I say let people put in their offerings. You can put in yours. What happens, happens.
I really hate map offerings in this game. They forces you to use a Sacrifical Ward instead of a simple bloodpoint offering.
Also map offerings can backfire greatly, like when people uses RPD Offerings and its a Skull Merchant or a The Game offering and its a Knight/Doctor.
They really shouldn't be in the game and maps should be random by nature.
Oh here we have it, the "git gud". No evidence, no argument just an accusation of being bad at the game. Let me remind you that, as I don't know how your games go, you also don't know how mine are. Your experience is not the experience of others, and your claims are based on your experience, like mine are based on my experience. And you did not say anything about the Billy situation. So let me challenge you to play hillbilly on RPD and use his map traversal skills there in an efficient way.
Again, this is a problem only bc of survivor stacks.
Why punish solo q player for it?
BHVR have proven many times that they can't just "rework" problematic maps. Midwich will still be extremely good for Nurse and stealth killers after the rework. Eyrie of Crows and every single Badham map is just awful to play as M1 killer, and most other killers for that matter. Garden of Joy is still terrible, but at least it's a 50/50 with the offering now. The Game is poorly designed, and very hard to play around for M1 killers if survivors simply communicate when the killer tries to drop chase, which is what you often have to do on that map.
DBD is not a balanced game, what keeps it balanced is the abundance of RNG. RNG map, RNG amount of pallets, RNG tiles. Remove RNG and the balancing falls apart.
Claiming that a map offering gives a "miniscule advantage" is outrageous. If you play in high MMR, you'll be seeing map offerings every single match, and it's tiresome because it's the same maps every time. And if I end up on a map that doesn't favor me at random, I can at least know that the enemy haven't brought a build around the map as well, like using Balanced Landing on RPD, etc.
Map offerings could be removed tomorrow and I wouldn't mind at all, nothing of value would be lost to me. I only bring BP offerings anyway. If I were to bring Sacrifical Wards for every map offering, I'd run out far sooner than people bringing map offerings.
"Nothing of value would be lost" only for the sweatiest of the top 1% of players.
For everyone else you're dumbing down the game and removing features that make the game fun.
No more mirror myers, no more playing on a map that you enjoy purely for fun.
Oddly hostile comment, especially claiming I'm sweaty and miserable when I haven't insulted you at all.
The top MMR players aren't just 1% by the way, there's no way on earth I'm top 1% MMR, but I've reached the point where I go against map offerings very regularly and it's extremely unfun. There's a reason why so many people complain about them and that's because they're a net negative on the game experience for a lot of players.
In my experience, when I play against casual players, they tend to bring BP offerings, not map offerings.
And if you want Mirror Myers to be viable, why not just buff that instead? I wouldn't mind if Myers was 110% in Tier 1 with a regular lunge range, plus even 25% from the brown lunge range addon. Now he's viable in far more maps, and doesn't need map offerings as badly.
They're not. The problem with map offerings is psychological and an issue of confirmation bias. I'm sick of seeing this fallacy repeated time and time again, and I don't want to see some of the most fun parts of this game deleted to satiated it.
You don't lose because the coordinated SWF you faced brought a map offering. You lose because they're a coordinated SWF.
I expect my MMR is just as high as yours and I LIKE map offerings being in the game. Variety is the spice of life. If map offerings were removed, rather than simply tweaking a few problematic maps, entire builds would be extinct overnight. The META would rigidly be defined to ONLY those builds which are all comer, reducing the number of overall Killers you see and the builds they have. It would be, in a word, very tedious and very quickly. I don't think he intended to be hostile in his response to you but to emphasize a point. Why make suggestions that take away options from other Players rather than suggestions which provide ways to mitigate the things that you see as issue?
If Map offerings provided no advantage, sweaty players wouldn't bring them. Take a look at this. Yes, they are community gathered stats, but they're the best we have:
https://nightlight.gg/maps/viewer?sort=kill&shown=pick%7Ckill%7Cdist&start_days=28
There's a huge disparity in escape rate across the board on different maps. Some maps are very clearly killer sided, some are very clearly survivor sided. And I didn't even look up this list until after writing this comment, and yet, all the maps I've mentioned are down there at the bottom with the highest escape rates.
The advantage map offerings bring are absolutely not just psychological.
This is a fair point. It just bothers me that many maps have been very killer sided or very survivor sided for a long time, and BHVR haven't been able to smooth it out. Of course, it's a tall order and there's a million variables to take into account, but still. They seem to be moving in the right direction at least.
Then this is a reason to rework those maps.
If there was a huge disparity in escape rates with different perks, you wouldn't call for all perks to be deleted. You'd nerf those perks.
The problem is that they've already tried to rework many of these maps, but the changes are never enough. Both Garden of Joy and Eyrie of Crows were made smaller and they changed some tiles, but they remain very surivor sided.
Haddonfield is heavily killer favored if you just ignore certain parts of the map and only play around the strong areas. But again, they've reworked this map like 3 times now, and I highly doubt they're willing to try again at this point.
I think your example with perks is unreasonable, because all players aren't assigned perks at random, they have to be chosen before the trial. Whereas by default, the map is chosen at random, and you have to go out of your way to bring a map offering to prevent this. Now I won't get into the perk meta, that's a whole other issue, but I gotta say Chaos Shuffle was great, and I'd love to get a random build for a BP bonus or something.
Maps don't need to be 100% balanced. It's not necessary or feasible. There are always going to be maps that are killer sided, survivor sided, stealth sided, ranged sided, etc. That's part of the reason why map offerings need to stay.
What I keep saying is that a much better solution, that doesn't just straight up delete a facet of game expression and reduce the game to a lesser state, is thus:
If we presume that leaving maps completely up to RNG is favourable, then we're presuming that you are as likely as not to get a map that favours your side.
Ergo, there are as many survivor sided maps as there are killer sided maps, and you have a roughly 50/50 chance at a decent game.
Now, if we add map variations to realms that only have a single option, and ensure that within the maps of a given realm there are roughly equal killer sided and survivor sided options, then this RNG is preserved. This way playing a map offering does not guarantee your side an advantage. It may, depending on the exact make up of those maps, tipe the RNG a little more in your favour, but it's still up to RNG.
So adding maps to existing reslms is the answer, and if maps can never be 100% balanced, you play into that and ensure that a given realm has options that tend to both sides.
This means that for the killers/builds that don't have a 50/50 chance without offerings, such as Mirror Myers who has a roughly 5% chance of getting a fair map without an offering, they can play an offering for a realm that suits them, and ultimately still get that 50/50 chance at a fair game.
Because the problem with removing map offerings that that not every killer or build would get a fair 50/50 shot with the entire map pool in play. It's impossible to ensure that among all available maps, 50% are killer sided, 50% are survivor sided, 50% favour stealth killers, 50% favour ranged killers, 50% favour mobility killers, 50% favour M1 killers, 50% have LoS blockers, 50% don't have LoS blockers, 50% have verticality, 50% are on a single level, etc. It's much easier to balance maps on one axis, that one being a general killer/survivor favourability.
Some killers only have a handful of viable realms, likewise some survivor builds arent viable on every realm. You need map offerings to make some killers/builds more viable.
This is a good point that I agree with. More variations means that when someone brings a map offering, they're not guaranteed a map that favors their side and build. Good compromise. I don't know how much effort goes into map variants though, it will still take a very long time until people stop being comfortable with using map offerings purely to give themselves an advantage.
I still feel this is the best option to make realm offerings more fair and interesting. They only grew stronger as BHVR has added more realms with individual maps, and I do feel they are particularly advantageous.
Like I think it's either very corny or unfair that a single player have the ability to decide for the entire 5-player lobby which of the realm/map they're going to play on while all the other map offerings have not a big impact, whether because they love a particular licence or because they want to get a pretty sizeable advantage. Realm offerings should be either reworked (ideal to make them also more balanced in a 1vs4 situation) or at least have their probability tweaked, you shouldn't be pretty much guaranteed a realm by bringing a single green offering.
On the other hand, I think it would be very fair and okay to let a Hillbilly or aura-reading Huntress choose not to go to Hawkins because they want to have fun. Or let any player choose not to go to RPD or The Game because they want to have fun. The impact of realm offering would be more in line with the other offerings, they would become a nice quality of life for map-dependant killers and overal they would be a lot less unfair or cringe in my opinion.
On the topic of Sacrificial wards, the chance of getting them is super low. You cannot bring them every game. I probably have like 5-10s on my 3 most prestiged characters. Arguably, a single player cannot bring the same map offering constantly, but they are many different offerings that someone can use to get an advantage.
You wanna play Billy efficiently on RPD? Let me get the popcorn, I'm all here to see that. Unless you mean him downing 1 person, slugging or camping, then there isn't anything new to see there. But if you're telling me that you're capable of curving as billy on the entirety of RPD??? Please do stream that.
As for everything else you said, yeah agree to disagree. Map offerings are boring crutches and no one person should decide an important aspect of the game for four others. The end. If you disagree, good for you, go buy a cake and celebrate it. I CBA <3
There is no block for maps, even using Sac Ward you can still get them, the anti-map offering just removes the offering not the map from being chosen by RNG
I guess they know this. If you know something is broken and you like to use it, because you need it, then you try your best to pretend that it is not that broken and also easy to counter. It's always the same.