The New Hook Distribution

Boss

When i see on stream what they show, i fear deadzones.
Y'know, the zones where, if they go down there and a hook over there has already been used to sacrifice someone, the Survivor can't possibly be hooked anymore from there without a carry Perk.

Yes, i know about the Killer having to not lead them there in the first place.
And while certain Killers can certainly do that, multiple would still only be able to incentivize Survivors at most to not go there, not control.

Not to mention sabotage gets a buff because of it. (Not saying that's a good or bad thing, too unsure on that.)
Also not to mention that the Survivor Offering only increases that chance. (These better not stack with other Survivors burning that Offering, ######### hell.)
They do say maps needs a minimum amount of Hooks, but that only applies when making the match: No hooks will spawn once you sacrificed a Survivor.

And yes, technically, you can avoid it by letting them bleed until they die or crawl close enough to a hook.
But that's very much contradictive to them wanting to shorten matches that are already over, taking the "immediate sacrifice on the last Survivor" mechanic as example.

I don't mind being wrong on this. Heck, i prefer it cause this would be stupid as hell.
But from what i've seen and read so far, i'm not liking it.
If this goes in, a secondary basement for every map wouldn't even be that far out of the question...

TAG

Indirect buff to Hangman's Trick? :P

Boss

@TAG said:
Indirect buff to Hangman's Trick? :P

That would be good and bad.
Good for the Perk, bad that such a hindrance can only be overcome with a Perk.

Peanits

It should, in theory, reduce dead zones and more evenly distribute hooks. It'll ensure a minimum distance between the hooks and only break that rule when there are no valid positions and the minimum hook requirement has not been met (in which case two may spawn close together). That'll also mean that the hooks won't spawn on one side of the map, leaving the other side with only one or two hooks.

It is actually on the PTB right now, so you can try it for yourself if you like.

powerbats

Well if you watch some of the hgn end streamers they're pretty strategic with their hookings so that they don't create dead zones on the map.

Boss

@Peanits said:
It should, in theory, reduce dead zones and more evenly distribute hooks. It'll ensure a minimum distance between the hooks and only break that rule when there are no valid positions and the minimum hook requirement has not been met (in which case two may spawn close together). That'll also mean that the hooks won't spawn on one side of the map, leaving the other side with only one or two hooks.

It is actually on the PTB right now, so you can try it for yourself if you like.

That sounds great up until the point that you've sacrificed 2 people on 1 side of the map because they would otherwise be unhookable.
From what you said, i see that it'll reduce deadzones on creation, but with the usage on 1 or 2 hooks could still easily break some maps then.

Boss

@powerbats said:
Well if you watch some of the hgn end streamers they're pretty strategic with their hookings so that they don't create dead zones on the map.

Cause right now it's actually very hard to create deadzones.

Poweas

Why don't you just run Agitation.

Also what do people mean by 'dead zones'?

Boss

@Poweas said:
Why don't you just run Agitation.

Also what do people mean by 'dead zones'?

Because there's only 4 slots, and i prefer that no Perk is required to counter mechanic flaws.
You read the discussion, you know what deadzone means.

SnakeSound222

I’m in the same boat. I don’t want to down a Survivor only to see that the nearest hook is too far or someone’s already on the nearest hook and I’m forced to let the other Survivor wiggle off. 

HellDescent

There are plenty on the outskirts of blackwater swamp already

Boss

@HellDescent said:
There are plenty on the outskirts of blackwater swamp already

Okay good.

Peanits

Boss said:

@Peanits said:
It should, in theory, reduce dead zones and more evenly distribute hooks. It'll ensure a minimum distance between the hooks and only break that rule when there are no valid positions and the minimum hook requirement has not been met (in which case two may spawn close together). That'll also mean that the hooks won't spawn on one side of the map, leaving the other side with only one or two hooks.

It is actually on the PTB right now, so you can try it for yourself if you like.

That sounds great up until the point that you've sacrificed 2 people on 1 side of the map because they would otherwise be unhookable.
From what you said, i see that it'll reduce deadzones on creation, but with the usage on 1 or 2 hooks could still easily break some maps then.

This may not be the popular opinion, but I'm okay with that. I'm always careful when I hook people and make sure that I'm not creating a deadzone for myself if they were to be sacrificed there. You should still be able to get to a slightly further away hook to prevent that from happening. I like the little things like that. Playing killer is pretty straightforward, but there's little things you can strategize around to do better. Managing hooks should be one of those skills, and I feel like carelessly using hooks should be punishing the same way leaving the last three generators on the same side of the map should be punishing for the survivors.

EDIT: I typed hooks at the end there when I meant to say generators. I'm a big dumb.

HellDescent

@Boss said:

@HellDescent said:
There are plenty on the outskirts of blackwater swamp already

Okay good.

I meant deadzones

Boss

@Peanits said:
Boss said:

@Peanits said:

It should, in theory, reduce dead zones and more evenly distribute hooks. It'll ensure a minimum distance between the hooks and only break that rule when there are no valid positions and the minimum hook requirement has not been met (in which case two may spawn close together). That'll also mean that the hooks won't spawn on one side of the map, leaving the other side with only one or two hooks.

It is actually on the PTB right now, so you can try it for yourself if you like.

That sounds great up until the point that you've sacrificed 2 people on 1 side of the map because they would otherwise be unhookable.

From what you said, i see that it'll reduce deadzones on creation, but with the usage on 1 or 2 hooks could still easily break some maps then.

This may not be the popular opinion, but I'm okay with that. I'm always careful when I hook people and make sure that I'm not creating a deadzone for myself if they were to be sacrificed there. You should still be able to get to a slightly further away hook to prevent that from happening. I like the little things like that. Playing killer is pretty straightforward, but there's little things you can strategize around to do better. Managing hooks should be one of those skills, and I feel like carelessly using hooks should be punishing the same way leaving the last three hooks on the same side of the map should be punishing for the survivors.

I'm fine with strategies to make hooking an easier thing to do. (Although it does mean Survivors have a some form of a huge safe zone at that rate, which i recall wasn't a desirable thing to have.)
I'm not fine with, if you fail, those zones being abused to (literal) death from bleeding out.

Boss

@HellDescent said:

@Boss said:

@HellDescent said:
There are plenty on the outskirts of blackwater swamp already

Okay good.

I meant deadzones

Okay crap.

Poweas

@Boss said:

@Poweas said:
Why don't you just run Agitation.

Also what do people mean by 'dead zones'?

Because there's only 4 slots, and i prefer that no Perk is required to counter mechanic flaws.
You read the discussion, you know what deadzone means.

I don't. The zone where Nurse can't blink comes to mind. Also you got a point with the flaw in the mechanic.

Boss

@Poweas said:

@Boss said:

@Poweas said:
Why don't you just run Agitation.

Also what do people mean by 'dead zones'?

Because there's only 4 slots, and i prefer that no Perk is required to counter mechanic flaws.
You read the discussion, you know what deadzone means.

I don't. The zone where Nurse can't blink comes to mind. Also you got a point with the flaw in the mechanic.

My apologies then, i assumed you knew since you recommended Agitation.

My deadzone term refers to where a part of the map doesn't have hooks nearby (anymore) to hook a Survivor who's dying over there.

While certain maps currently certainly have either a lot of hooks or weird zones where there's 2 next to eachother, with the video and explanation they showed, i fear such zones will be much easier to create.

And while the Killer creating those zones by themself isn't such a big deal, my fear is that it'll be abused by Survivors greatly, which wouldn't be new.
Not to mention the boring-as-hell bleedout wait times, because both sides can't do anything anymore.

For example, you've sacrificed one in the corner of the map and another on the closest one after that, because all other hooks are too far away.
Now those hooks are gone and becomes a deadzone.
Strategic play won't come into play when Survivors start learning to check hook placements and learn of potential deadzones on each map.
Y'know: "Ahh, the Killer sacrificed over there. If others go over there too, it'll be a deadzone in no time."
Or the one being chased: "I got no more tricks, might as well run over here and create a deadzone for my friends."
While this was a strategy before, mmany if not all never did it cause it would cost too many sacrifices and usually resulted in enough hooks being nearby anyway.
But this fair distribution coming up seems, to me, that it'll encourage B-lining it to edges and/or corners of the map and take over that part of the map after a sacrifice.

Running Agitation, IF this is the case (I really hope not), to counter a deadzone, would fix a flaw, not a challenge.

Poweas

@Boss said:

@Poweas said:

@Boss said:

@Poweas said:
Why don't you just run Agitation.

Also what do people mean by 'dead zones'?

Because there's only 4 slots, and i prefer that no Perk is required to counter mechanic flaws.
You read the discussion, you know what deadzone means.

I don't. The zone where Nurse can't blink comes to mind. Also you got a point with the flaw in the mechanic.

My apologies then, i assumed you knew since you recommended Agitation.

My deadzone term refers to where a part of the map doesn't have hooks nearby (anymore) to hook a Survivor who's dying over there.

While certain maps currently certainly have either a lot of hooks or weird zones where there's 2 next to eachother, with the video and explanation they showed, i fear such zones will be much easier to create.

And while the Killer creating those zones by themself isn't such a big deal, my fear is that it'll be abused by Survivors greatly, which wouldn't be new.
Not to mention the boring-as-hell bleedout wait times, because both sides can't do anything anymore.

For example, you've sacrificed one in the corner of the map and another on the closest one after that, because all other hooks are too far away.
Now those hooks are gone and becomes a deadzone.
Strategic play won't come into play when Survivors start learning to check hook placements and learn of potential deadzones on each map.
Y'know: "Ahh, the Killer sacrificed over there. If others go over there too, it'll be a deadzone in no time."
Or the one being chased: "I got no more tricks, might as well run over here and create a deadzone for my friends."
While this was a strategy before, mmany if not all never did it cause it would cost too many sacrifices and usually resulted in enough hooks being nearby anyway.
But this fair distribution coming up seems, to me, that it'll encourage B-lining it to edges and/or corners of the map and take over that part of the map after a sacrifice.

Running Agitation, IF this is the case (I really hope not), to counter a deadzone, would fix a flaw, not a challenge.

Oh. That's a messed up mechanic that's broken as hell. It needs to be fixed but without hurting Sabo too much.