P100 Trickster - I HATE the Rework: Updated Feedback
EDIT: After some feedback, I decided to rework a majority of the suggestions I put up in this post to something I find better overall. Skip to the end for the most up-to-date version of the changes, and read through for updated thoughts.
EDIT 2: Fixed formatting, grammar, spelling, etc. Also hammered in some points better.
Hello. I’m a P100 Trickster. I’ve spent years learning the ins and outs of this character, and invested most of my DBD playtime solely to him. This post is regarding the recent Trickster rework. I’ll be attempting to thoroughly deconstruct every change, from the PTB to now, and provide in-depth and honest feedback on the entire update.
I’ve loved Trickster since his release, and was really putting in practice to get good at him starting this year. He was an incredibly nuanced, incredibly flashy, and endlessly fun character to me. He was the primary reason I got on to play the game, and unfortunately, this Trickster update has absolutely destroyed any enthusiasm for the character I had.
Many nuanced mechanics have been stripped down or removed, pointless and confusing stat changes have me relearning him every week, and his power just doesn’t feel as strong or satisfying to use as it did before. He feels like a glorified zoner with an increased focus on using basic attacks and Main Event, rather than just sharpening your skills and learning how to use his knives.
Despite being highly critical of this update, I don’t mean to insult the developers behind it. I know this stuff takes time to get right, and my only hope is that in the future you will take another look at the character with this critique in mind. There will be a summary of the changes I want at the end for those who only want to skim. I hope this reaches the right people.
PRIORITY #1 - 8-KNIFE LACERATION METER, and how it affects his gameplay style.
After playing with the new version more and more, I can confidently say that changing Trickster’s laceration meter capacity to 8 Knives from the previous 6 has been THE biggest tragedy of this update, and has had a direct negative impact on almost every single part of his gameplay loop.
Previously, you could use the knives anywhere & all the time if you learned how and when to use them effectively. Not only could you use them anywhere, you also had to, because he was 4.4m/s. It wasn't easy to get in for a basic attack most of the time, and that was fine, because the knives were SO good you almost never had to use the bat. Only needing 6 hits meant that each individual shot you hit mattered more, even if you were only occasionally throwing.
Nowadays, getting downs with only knives is less fun and even less effective. Being forced to hit at least 4 extra blades for a down compared to the old version feels terrible. It gives survivors way more time to just run past you, or away from you without much threat. To compensate, you very often have to intentionally zone people out into open areas to use a basic attack or Main Event: as these options are more effective at downing players, save you knives, and are easier than trying to hit knives manually.
The change from 6 to 8 really killed the knives-only playstyle that old trickster bred. Another big reason for this is that the ammo economy of new Trickster is terrible. You have to use over ⅓ of your base ammo capacity just for one down, even without missing a single time. Even pro players can’t possibly hit ‘em all, so I don’t see how that's a reasonable amount. You have to reload after every chase unless you use Main Event, whereas before a down was barely over ¼ of the base ammo capacity, and you didn't have to reload or use Main Event every chase just to compensate.
Additionally, on a smaller note, the order of the melodic sound effects that play whenever you land a blade has changed due to the increase, often making me believe I’m closer to a down than I actually am. This causes me to drop my knives when I shouldn’t, and provide the survivor more time to run away by mistake. Yes, this HAS cost me entire downs sometimes.
The solution isn’t to increase his ammo capacity, it’s to reduce his laceration meter back down to 6 Knives.
6-Knife meter fixes so much about this character fundamentally. It lowers chase time in more significant ways than just making him throw faster, allows for better ammo management, revives knife-only playstyle, and it makes Main Event better by proxy. And no, this would NOT be overpowered in any way when combined with a 4.6m/s killer. 4.6m/s Killers by themselves are not scary: They need good powers that can cut down chase times to compensate: if they lack mobility. Which, as you know, Trickster does. The counterplay to ANY killer is always going to be to put as much distance and as many obstacles between you and them as possible, and Trickster still holds true to this.
PRIORITY #2 - THROW RATE
Let’s go back to Pre-7.4.0 Trickster for a second.
Throw Rate Growth was a mechanic where Trickster’s throw animation speed would increase for each blade he threw in rapid succession. This meant that despite his initial throw being pretty slow, you could follow this up with a flurry of blades very quickly, and it added a nice rhythm to his gameplay loop.
The reason this mechanic was so important was because it gave Trickster a way to punish Survivors very hard when they made a mistake, but it also made sure that survivors who were playing correctly had a reasonable amount of time to react to his initial windup and get behind something before too many blades could be sent their way.
This led to Trickster’s bread and butter gameplay loop. Tap-fire and chip away at a survivor’s laceration meter in tall loops, and when they mess up or are stuck out in the open for too long, mow them down with a full-auto flurry.
Removing this mechanic in favor of a completely static throwing speed has been another major killjoy for the character. Now, when a Survivor makes a mistake, they aren’t punished for it nearly as heavily, because the base fire rate isn’t fast enough to do that. Reducing the base throw rate isn’t a good option either, as this makes it so survivors get punished for the mere crime of EXISTING, and Trickster is able to throw far more knives in shorter spans of time than anybody is reasonably able to react to. This was a big problem for him on the Chucky PTB, and hasn’t been addressed reasonably since then.
With all that said, I think the best thing to do is return his throw rate to how it was before the 7.4.0 Update. 3kps (0.33s windup) base speed, with a ramp up to 4kps after 8 throws, and a further ramp-up to 5kps in main event. Here’s roughly the exact numbers from the wiki.
The reason I vouch for this mechanic returning as well is because old Trickster's power was never super oppressive to necessitate it's removal. Even though his power was flexible, it took a LOT of getting used to: and your skill was rewarded heavily with the ability to down people quickly.
I think it's important that Trickster is treated sort of like an insta-down killer, similar to the Chainsaw bros. All three can down you incredibly easily and quickly when you make a mistake, but if you position yourself correctly and outplay them, you can easily save your health state and/or prolong chases for long times.
Similarly, all three characters have always been good at camping too, but nowadays we have a baseline anti-camp mechanic, and you still have enough time to pull off an unhook against all three, even if you're noticed before you reach the hook.
Giving Trickster a good power while also being 4.6m/s is not going to shoot him up to the top of tier lists or Kill Rates, or even make him super oppressive in chase. It will just force people to actually learn how to play against him, which I think is interesting.
PRIORITY #3 - MAIN EVENT
Main Event has transformed from an occasional part of your power that required good time management and usage of knives... to basically being used in every single chase, and you are punished pretty hard for not making use of it. This is another change that just killed the character for me.
New Trickster is too reliant on Main Event as a crutch for his other very obvious problems, and I think this is TERRIBLE for the health of the character. His base knives suck bad compared to the old Trickster, as you have to hit more and the throw rate is slower than before. Additionally, you will have to reload more often because of the other changes.
The only way you can compensate for all that is by using Main Event as often as you can. And uh, you can use it often, that's for sure. You can activate Main Event whenever you hit the equivalent of 1 Health state worth of knives. Compared to the previous 5 Health States worth, that is a massive buff. Besides that, it was basically unchanged, minus the implementation of an extremely clunky use of the existing Combo system to supplement the duration. I don't like this.
It is crucial for me to make my point clear here: Making Trickster's power terrible so you can afford to make Main Event central to his playstyle is a terrible idea.
Main Event is not fun to use or play against most of the time. It's a binary ability. During this mode, you have little control over what you do: A huge beam of knives comes out and all you do is line it up so the beam hits the survivor. This kind of sustained-fire mode is incredibly boring compared to manually taking each shot. Even compared to trickster's old maximum throw rate it's ludicrous. It's good for when you want to get through a group of people quickly, but when you're just using it on one person alone, it's super dull to use AND play against.
That's not to say it doesn't have counterplay, it's just that the counterplay is significantly less fun than base Trickster throw rate. You can either get in a locker to completely nullify the ability, or you just get behind something that doesn't have any openings he can fire through so that he's forced to walk around it... often resulting in a fatigue by the time the time he catches up.
I'd highly prefer if Trickster had a better power and a worse Main Event. With all that said, I offer a small rework.
- Decrease Main Event Duration to 5 Seconds. Remove Combo system implementation.
- Decrease charge requirement to 6 Blade hits.
- NEW: The Main Event gauge will lose 2 Charges for any Blade you miss when Main Event is not charged or activated.
Now Main Event becomes a sort-of reward system for players with high accuracy. It’ll be about the same frequency as now if you have high accuracy. But, players who either have lower accuracy, or ones just take riskier shots will have to forego the ability for a bit longer as a trade off. Which I think is fine. Definitely an upgrade in design compared to what we have now in my opinion.
LACERATION DECAY, & MISCELLANEOUS THOUGHTS
Figured I’d cap off my thoughts on his basekit by just nitpicking a bit about other aspects of this update that have bothered me, starting with Laceration Decay.
Laceration Decay, as it stands right now, is kind of lacking-- design wise. It works fine for what it is, but it's honestly so annoying that it actually uses decimal numbers sometimes. If you hit someone a fraction of a second after the meter decays, your next shot won't count as an injury, but instead as 5.939393 stacks or something. It's annoyingly designed and sometimes a bit aggravating. I suggest a mild technical rework and buff to cap off the final round of basekit Trickster changes.
- The Laceration meter now only depletes after reaching the next whole number. When the Laceration Meter begins decaying, Laceration Meter Stacks will be preserved until the stack is fully depleted.
This prevents situations where stacks will only deplete by a small amount before you hit a Survivor again, effectively nullifying the stack. As an example: If a Survivor’s meter is decaying after 5 hits, and the meter hasn’t yet counted down to 4, Your next hit will still count as the 6th.
This can be achieved by keeping the Laceration Meter value in memory as the meter depletes, and only decreasing it when a whole number is reached. In a sense: Basekit Laceration meter stacks will only ever deplete by -1, and never count as some number like 5.9393. Any other Laceration modifiers that produce a decimal result on hit will simply be rounded down to the nearest whole number when that stack is depleted.
This would be a hefty buff to current trickster by itself, but I think some other changes could be made to amplify this design:
- Decrease Laceration Decay time to 12 seconds (from 15)
- Make Laceration Stacks deplete in 3 Seconds / at 0.33c/s (from 2 seconds / at 0.5c/s)
This would make it so survivors can genuinely see their progress sooner as they're outrunning a Trickster. This would also make it less likely that you'll want to leave a chase the moment it starts going south.
And here's some other nitpicky thoughts that could be used to further the discussion.
- Increasing his Terror Radius was a good idea, sure. But was it really all that necessary when he still has a huge Lullaby? Why does he even have a Lullaby to begin with? It’s not as if he’s good at surprise attacks, since he has to hit so many blades anyway. Just get rid of the thing already! Or, just go back to 24m terror radius if you want to keep it.
- The removal of the slowdown penalty was good, as it seemed to be barely functional anyway, only reaching the minimum speed after throwing 30 entire knives. Not exactly an exciting part of his kit to keep around, but I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to it coming back in a more prominent way if Trickster was deemed too strong.
- Trying to make combos anything other than his bloodpoint earning method has been a disaster. It’s too confusing of a mechanic and doesn’t need to be exemplified beyond what it previously was. It gives you bloodpoints and that should be the end of it.
- Recoil was cool. I think it encouraged a more skillful playstyle of tap-firing and only going full-auto when it was necessary, and made learning how to full-auto without losing accuracy incredibly rewarding. I am sad to see it go but I’m not exactly combative of its removal either. If it makes the killer more accessible, that’s fine I suppose.
Let’s move on to add-ons now, as they are a beast in their own right.
THE ADD-ON PROBLEM
Finally, I'm gonna wrap this up with a thorough look at each of Trickster’s add-ons, how to change them from here, and why they need updates. I kept this separate from the “priority list” because I think add-ons are a huge problem, but nothing is more of a problem than his current main kit.
We’ll go from top-to-bottom, starting with his Ultra Rares.
Death Throes Compilation
- Current Effect: Reveal the auras of Survivors hit by Blades during Main Event for 6 seconds.
This add-ons effect is pretty cool and makes Main Event better for sure, but it’s a far-cry from how useful the old version was. The Diamond Cufflinks add-on has a similar, better, and more common effect at a lower rarity, so I think this effect should be reserved for a lower rarity add-on. I would like for this add-on to return to a similar effect as the old version, but with an added caveat that makes it more fair to play against.
- New Effect: During Main Event, the amount of Blades you hit Survivors with will be returned as Ammo at a 2x conversion rate when Main Event ends.
This reworked version makes use of Main Event’s strength as a finisher, rewarding players for their accuracy and smart use of the power with some extra ammo returned. Under absolute dream conditions, this add-on could theoretically still allow you to play without ever reloading at lockers. But, the accuracy that would be necessary to pull this playstyle off would make it a true test of skill, and endlessly satisfying for sure.
Iridescent Photocard
- Current Effect: For each consecutive Blade hit, gain a stackable 1% Haste effect, up to a maximum of 7%. This bonus is lost when missing a Blade or when a Survivor loses a health state.
This new version of the add-on is extremely cool and provides a reward to Tricksters who leverage his tap-fire playstyle well. However, it has some problems. Firstly, with the prospect of lowering his Laceration meter down to 6 Knives, I don’t think it makes sense to keep the effect stacking to 7%. Secondly, the Haste never goes away if you don’t do one of the other two effects, so it provides some value in ways I don’t think are intentional. To remedy this, I’ll suggest a change to its deactivation condition.
- New Effect: For each consecutive Blade hit, gain a stackable 1% Haste effect, up to a maximum of 5%. This bonus is lost when missing a Blade, when a Survivor loses a health state, or when the Survivor’s Laceration Meter begins decaying.
Now the effect is much less stackable and only serves its purpose when actively in chase, which I think is for the best.
Trick Blades
- Current Effect: Causes Blades to ricochet off the environment a total of 2 times.
While this add-on does allow for much more cool skill-expressive plays, I think the add-on is currently too strong and makes a good Trickster inescapable. This add-on allows a blade that would otherwise miss two additional chances to deal full damage, and I think it needs to be toned down a bit to stand in-line with the other similar add-ons.
- New Effect: Blades that travel less than 20m ricochet off the environment a total of 2 times.
This limits the effect to medium-range, allowing cool shots but still making it so blades that straight up miss are not relevant. From this point on I'm gonna talk about add-ons in groups.
COMBO ADD-ONS
Fizz-Spin Soda
- Current Effect: Increases the time before a Combo ends by 15%.
Ji-Woon’s Autograph
- Current Effect: Increases the time before a Combo ends by 10%.
These addons are laughably awful. I don’t even understand how this passed through. They're meant to increase the amount of bloodpoints you earn and help increase your main event duration. But… There’s plenty of other add-ons that increase main event duration. We don’t need more. Not to mention, the modifiers used here are so pathetically small they barely help in that regard. Both need to be reworked.
Fizz-Spin Soda
- New Effect: Injuring a survivor using Blades applies the Mangled status effect.
Ji-Woon’s Autograph
- New Effect: Decreases throws required to reach the maximum Throw Rate by 1.
I’ve given two different effects that I believe are more deserving of their rarities. Soda has become a Mangled add-on, making Blade hits pack a tiny bit of a slow-down punch, deserved for using your power well. Ji-Woon’s autograph has been restored to it's previous version as a replacement for the "Memento Blades" add-on, which we'll get to later.
DECAY TIME ADD-ONS
Ripper Brace
- Current Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 3s.
On Target Single
- Current Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 2s.
While these add-ons both have respectable effects in their own right, I think stacking add-ons leads to less interesting gameplay. I don’t think a decay time add-on needs to be in the Rare group of add-ons, and I think On Target Single isn’t good enough to run on its own.
Ripper Brace
- New Effect: Blade hits from beyond 16m apply 1.25x Laceration.
On Target Single
- New Effect: Increases the time before the Laceration Meter begins decaying by 3s.
Now, On Target Single takes the reins as the sole Decay time add-on, unlocking an even 15s decay time, and Ripper Brace has a new effect as an add-on that rewards good accuracy at a distance. This effect can be used to lower the amount of hits required for a health state to 5 if you hit all of your shots from that range, or can just give you some extra time to deplete the laceration meter before losing a stack, which is nice.
INFERIOR DUPLICATE ADD-ONS
Add-on variety is very important, especially for a killer like Trickster who you can do so much with. For a long time his duplicate add-ons have had the problem of the higher rarity versions being good and the lower rarities being terrible, and the next couple add-ons are a perfect example of what I mean.
Lucky Blade
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 0.3s for each Blade Hit.
Inferno Wires
- Current Effect: Increases the duration of Main Event by 40%.
Counting the Combo add-ons, we have way too many add-ons solely to increase the duration of Main Event. 6 to be exact. That’s 30% of his total add-ons. Unacceptable, we need to cut this down to allow for more variety.
Lucky Blade
- New Effect: Increases the time required for Laceration stacks to Decay by 1s (0.33s -> 0.25s)
Inferno Wires
- New Effect: Decreases Main Event charge penalty for missed Blades by 50%.
I think these new effects speak for themselves. Watch is unchanged. Lucky Blade is reworked into a new type of Laceration decay add-on, and Wires is reworked to a completely new effect, allowing more leniency in activating the new Main Event.
Killing Part Chords
- Current Effect: Increases movement speed in the Throw State by 1%
This add-on is just terrible. It’s a copy of the far better Caged Heart Shoes add-on, but way less useful. Not even noticeable, and never worth running. I think this add-on needs an entire rework just to make sure no terrible duplicate add-ons are left.
- New Effect: Increases the Main Event activation window by 5s.
Now this add-on has a dedicated use, letting you hold on to Main Event for longer so you can use it when a good opportunity arises. This is accomplished by changing the modifier that drains the main event gauge from -0.33c/s to -0.25c/s, increasing the time you can hold onto Main Event from 15s to 20s.
(Which by the way, is a change that was swept under the rug, because changing Main Event’s Base duration also affects this. When Main Event was 10 seconds, this allowed you to pocket it for 30 seconds. When the duration was changed to 5 seconds, this resulted in you only being able to hold it for 15 seconds, and now 18s with the current 6s duration. What a mess!)
Bloody Boa
- Current Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 8.
Trick Pouch
- Current Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 4.
As a final example of terrible duplicate add-ons, these two are a prime example of what mean. Bloody Boa is an amazing add-on, it helps in more ways than one and is just nice to throw on in any build. Trick Pouch on the other hand, provides so little it’s barely ever worth using-- not even stacked with Boa.
Since Trick Pouch seems more blatantly designed as an ammo add-on, I think Boa is the one that should be changed to something else.
Bloody Boa
- New Effect: Reveal the auras of Survivors hit by Blades during Main Event for 6 seconds.
Trick Pouch
- New Effect: Increases Blade ammo capacity by 8.
I decided to give Boa the effect of the current Death Throes Compilation add-on since I still like the effect, but don’t think it’s worthy of being an Ultra-Rare. I think this would put both of these add-ons in a good spot for their rarities.
Memento Blades
- Current Effect: Increases throwing speed by 10%
This add-on has had a sad life. For most of its life, this was always an intentionally terrible add-on, forcing you to hit an extra knife to injure survivors. Nowadays, it’s practically a crutch for current Trickster’s design problems. It increases his base throwing speed to almost 4kps with no downside, which is brutal and pushes him right back to his problematic state where he was on the PTB. This add-on needs another full rework.
- New Effect: Laceration caused by Blades is based on proximity to the target, starting at a minimum of 50% Laceration. Each Blade Hit increases the Laceration caused by Blades to a maximum of 200% Laceration. Missing a Blade resets Laceration to its initial value.
If you’re confused, this is the ORIGINAL effect of the Death Throes compilation add-on. It was a fun add-on that was challenging to use, but it had a short life before being removed, presumably for making the character even more difficult than he already was.
The gimmick with this add-on is that hitting your blades from close-up will cause them to deal half as much damage, but hitting them from incredibly long ranges will cause higher damage. In addition, hitting shots without missing also increases your laceration output by a significant amount.
This add-on effect would fit right in as a brown add-on, as it provides a hefty challenge for those who desire it.
TL;DR
Well, by this point I’m sure I’m running out of space to type anything else, so I’ll end it here. Please consider my words, as I think this new direction would help make Trickster feel fun again. Here's a summary of all the changes.
Thanks for keeping the Trickster discussion alive y'all. I just hope he gets treated better in 2024.
Comments
Trickster is punished with less MEs and more reloads as is. OP cares about the surv counterplay a lot imo.
Because if those changes are implemented, then Trickster would be absolute complete trash.
Disagree. Better lethality + ammo economy more than make up for the nerfs.
I don't know why they complain
Yes the nerf to 8 blades is quite noticeable but if you are a good trickster and you don't miss knives it is not a problem that also applies to the ammunition, currently it is fine the only thing I would change is the addons, do you want to punish for missing knives? That's a horrible idea and the nerf to 8 knives seems fair to me to be 4.6 since Trickster was never a long range killer like a Hunter he was always medium-short range, I really hope BHVR doesn't take this into consideration since it seems like You don't understand how. play trickster
I can appreciate that Starstruck. You were playing in a different way, and different from the people that I know and follow. (In regards to not needing Main Event with 4.4 Trickster)
However, I think making changes so that he finds more value in his base knives through add-ons is better than trying to make his base kit cater to that specific sentiment of ME not valuable.
Ironically, even though the rework you are painting for this Trickster is more punishing for acquiring Main Event, it feels like it is trying to get closer to 4.4 Trickster; yet, your view on Main Event value, meant you were disregarding one of the most difficult accuracy playstyles that you could achieve with 4.4 Trickster. His Main Event value with no reload.
The no reload playstyle with Death Throes Compilation (DTC) of 4.4 Trickster, which required you to be as accurate as possible to get value from DTC was a very rewarding and difficult playstyle when your goal was to achieve 1-0 reloads a match. VERY difficult to do, and required a lot of thought and knife management. I was striving for it but at best got 2 reloads with DTC in a match. I avoid saying the words “reload for free” because that ######### was not free, it was hard. It doesn’t seem like you ever tried that style, if you are disregarding Tricksters Main Event like you are and that’s a shame. I think you would have liked that playstyle based on what you like about high accuracy, and people like yourself might have seen the value and potential in this character's special ability had they tried that specific reward system. Not to mention that once you start getting higher in MMR, and the wild west of duplicate meta perks, Tricksters Main Event management is what made him competitive with competitive swfs in high MMR.
I’m telling you… the idea that Main Event was invaluable was the exact mentality or view that led BHVR to think Main Event needed to be changed in the first place. And with him changing meant reworking everything to fit New Main Event.
I also played 4.4 Trickster as I've said and I enjoyed a lot of things about that version’s base kit too. But with Main Event being frequent, Trickster being more aggressive in chase, and being 4.6, his kit needed to be altered. Laceration decay can’t be below 15s, its too punishing with 8 knife/16 down. And 6 Knife is better for 4.4 version Trickster, for counter play.
I think where the current Trickster is still ailing or not feeling good, is becoming apparent though. Some things that I can see that we agree on like the frequency of Main Event, being tweaked to hover around 12-16 to activate, is a common sentiment. Starstruck, I know you don’t find value of Main Event, but for the majority who do, shares the sentiment of having a bit longer Main Event, whether reward-based through a buffed Combo System to allow a much longer ME or integrated from Tequila Moonrock into base kit ME, or having both (my opinion) is a shared sentiment. We all agree his add-ons need a buff and also some creativity. They are all still based on a 6 knife/12 down Trickster, and many are weak and don’t promote variety of playstyles. But I do think keeping certain add-ons Main Event Orientated as they are is good, they just need more to them.
Whether you liked old Trickster more or not, this is the version we have now. This Trickster’s current kit accommodates for a different Main Event. If you removed his Main Event, made it too difficult to achieve or disregarded it as a I dont care about it (which would be a tragedy…) hes just Huntress 2.0. Many people do not want Huntress Trickster, including myself. I would be so depressed if that happened….If I wanted to play like Huntress, base kit, I would just play Huntress. But I got to be honest…I only play this game to master Trickster, if that was no longer fun or felt he was just a knock off character of another....I dont think I would play this game as much.
Add-ons to accommodate a Huntress-like playstyle, with long shots… is okay though, I think one Revvium's add-on suggestions I mentioned in original forum, rewards a player for snipes or hole shots… but he is too unique to make him just a Huntress. His Main Event is important to this character whether 4.4 or 4.6 version. Can it be altered and tweaked? Absolutely. But with the acknowledgment that it is a core part of this character and should remain so.
Trickster is so fun to go against. He requires you to be on your toes, and good teamwork because of Main Event. Many people don’t understand the goal with Trickster is not to not go down at all, but to spread out and avoid grouping up, spreading out the downs and wasting his time. He's an intense killer because of the looming threat of Main Event and I love it.
As someone who has made those montages for content lol..Hole shots and snipes does look cool and feels good to play for. But like you said its not something I would want him to be geared towards at his core. Understanding that when I dont feel like being casual and going on long chases to practice accuracy (basically willingly throwing matches)...when I want to play for "money" and win against a good swf, efficiency matters. Whoever is playing the most efficiently wins the match with good survivors. If I was forced to play without Main Event or without some rapid fire (not spamming)...then my efficiency goes down. Especially when survivors are grouped up, I need some rapid fire, and having Main Event to punish is peak feeling. And I of course will miss blades in matches, I am not Wacek, it would be too punishing to have negative charges. I would feel like I was playing K pop Dark Souls. Survivors...4 of them...with duplicate who knows what endurance/second chance perks, who know how to break LOS and Micrododge, (OMG and bots too) and get gens done quickly and then I cant pop Main Event cause i missed shots...oi.... I am already feeling stressed at the thought.
Using everything Trickster has in his kit matters. That includes Main Event /rapid fire, whether old ME or New. People spamming wildly and missing every shot under the sun but somehow still getting downs and then calling him OP with "underserved" downs .... usually those aren't Trickster Mains and are just playing him once in a while...or they are baby Tricksters who dont have the accuracy YET. Worrying about them is not really something I would change his basekit over.....because as soon as they run into good survivors they realize very quickly spamming does not guarantee winning matches. It guarantees reloading...a lot....and gens popping faster.
OP does not like main event in general, why are people just ignoring what they're saying entirely?
Everyone here does as well though, I'm sure. Some of us I can say for certain. Like Endzej and myself. But most of us all play survivor and actively hope they find a Trickster in a pub. I play a lot of survivor, and many I know and even some on these forums, actively go against Tricksters as much as they can in custom matches, of varying skill levels and experiences on both the Tricksters and survivors' part. Basically we are play testing unofficially.
I think thats important to understand Trickster's rework and what he needs, to actively go against as many Tricksters as you can. Which is going to be more valuable information, than the occasional time a baby survivor went against a Trickster once.
Yo, a few posts below the one you're replying to, I made an updated list of suggestions based on feedback I received in the thread. I'm curious what you'd think.
Also, unrelated, but I'm deathly concerned at the amount of people bringing up huntress in this thread now. Trickster is nothing like huntress at all besides the very basic concept of a character who tosses arcing projectiles... even at their base levels without taking ME into account, they don't play in a comparable way. But besides that, I appreciate your words and would like ur opinion on my more updated suggestions
1) Because frequent main events are absolutely mandatory, to give Trickster a rapid fire gameplay, and his own identity. Without a rapid fire gameplay, people are better of just playing Huntress, because she's much better at the "I need to carefully aim each and every shot" thing.
2) Because the OP just wants to make Youtube montages, which is completely useless for the rest of us, that want a killer that's actually decent. And by the way, I've been a Blight main long enough, to have seen A LOT of people sharing Youtube montages and video clips of SPICY HITS, to know how much they throw games away just for a chance at getting video content to share.
And the OP still can make Youtube montages with the current Trickster, so it's for the best that Trickster keeps his frequent main events, so the rest of us can have a killer that's not complete trash against survivors that know how to play against Trickster.
1st and foremost I’ve written down rework ideas for the 4.4m/s and 4.6m/s version in the Trickster Google Doc. Many highly experienced Trickster players reviewed it and didn’t seem to have any complaints regarding it. BHVR has their own vision, it’s their game/ IP. They’ve decided that Trickster should not be as hard to get into as before. He’s one of the controversial killers. Reason being is, that players didn’t bother learning how to properly play him or against him. Resulting in him sounding unhealthy for the game on one side or being seen as too weak by the other side. Hence why the rework happened. This version is something new and we’re trying to make it work and improve for both sides. We’ve gone away from the unhook preventor, territorial Trickster to be a more chase-oriented one.
You saying that I haven’t given you an idea on how to fix your rework is bothersome, when you’re disregarding my opinion that your version in fact would turn Trickster into a worse Huntress and labeling it as nonsense. Not to mention how you’ve responded to my concerns regarding controller player issues and to certain members on this forum, who’ve given you their views. Proclaiming them as laughable, telling them to just aim better, or denying the claim that the survivors you showcased in your montage are playing poorly as if you’re the all-mighty know-it-all (big ego) when you’ve designed a Trickster that is just horrible. Showcasing your lack of understanding of his kit and the issues both sides would suffer from. I understand you’re frustrated but Trickster is not strictly your character and killing off the things that people love about him just so you can have fun and stop whining is not how it goes. It’s not the end of the world. I've seen you play Huntress and it’s exactly like you play Trickster. To give you the same treatment you’ve given me regarding the decay issue, I’d suggest you run Boa and Trick Pouch/ Memento if you want to rely less on Main Event if it’s that big of an issue for you.
I’ve seen your montage of clips. Hole shots are cool to do. But the way you play Trickster is something we as Trickster content creators have taught our communities to avoid doing. Which is to not play him like a Huntress, holding your knives for such a long period of time, hoping to hit a cool shot or two while just inherently slowing yourself down. Once you face a somewhat decent survivor you’d lose too much time on having 0 pressure with your power. It’s the biggest meme amongst the Trickster community. We named it Shoes Gaming. It’s even mentioned as one of the main caveats as to why people don’t play Trickster efficiently in the Google Doc. It’s players who played Huntress before they picked up Trickster and believe he should be played like her. Even Otzdarva after watching/communicating with Trickster content creators (such as Wacek) understood why shoes gaming is detrimental to the Trickster player and pointed out that it’s a trap most players get themselves into. You’ve said it yourself that you’ve played the majority of your games without Main Event literally admitting you’re playing him like a huntress but laughing at me saying that you want Trickster to be Huntress 2.0. The Trickster should have his own identity. If you want to be rewarded for patient shots, play Huntress. Trickster is a lunatic, a maniac who laughs as he sees/hears the survivors in agony. If you have to hit more than 2 knives for a down in this case 12-16, the killer is encouraged to get as many knives into a survivor as possible and be on their tail. While you on the other hand are just walking with your knives expecting them to land (from whatever range) when that’s a huge amount of pressure and distance you’re losing. Sure they landed in THOSE CLIPS that you’ve personally saved, and it’s fine when it’s the last knife before a health state, but otherwise it’s pointless if the survivor has a brain. You’ll feel that laceration decay the moment a survivor stops playing your game. You’ll have wasted knives, lost laceration and have no distance gained. I know, hole-shot / sniper Tricksters love boa, shoes, and cufflinks because it makes their lives easier. Boa especially cause it makes up for the knives you guys missed. You’ll get stuck to those add-ons with no return and without exploring the other sides of Trickster, which is sad. But it’s your game you paid for it so play it as you wish. As we mentioned many times shoes is an add-on that most people start off with but don’t allow themselves to learn the basekit function, rendering them addicted to shoes (in most cases Huntress type of Tricksters).
While it’s cool, that type of gameplay works against survivors who are unaware and don’t necessarily learn from experience ( like hey Trickster shot me once through a hole maybe this time I’ll duck or just wait, keeping my effective distance and maintain los blockage). In the montage: The Felix, the Renato, the Ash and the Yui could’ve wasted so much of your time if they had the right pathing (made correct plays). The hole shot on Claud is just you wasting time, probably why you didn’t include the rest of the chase. These clips are awesome sure, but they don’t define Trickster Mastery. If it was good players you’d lose a lot of time on those chases and have your laceration go to 0. Forgetting to mention your playstyle would in fact be dead if we rolled in your 12s decay idea. The other day I made 2 clips where I did insane hole shot downs, does it make me a Trickster master if I just compile the times my knives hit and just cut out all the misses?
Trickster mastery was trying to avoid as many reloads as possible. It’s what made him stand aside from Huntress whom he was often compared to, a weaker Huntress as they’d say. That playstyle required the most amount of reloads skipped in which case Main Event helped, and a lot. Not to mention you could snowball with Main Event. No reload playstyle was the hardest to do consistently. But harder than that was to use Trick Blades efficiently while avoiding reloading every chase. It’s easy just to spam and hope for value to get a down after using all your knives and reload, sure. But using them effectively is not the easiest of tasks, those knives don’t get attracted to the survivors like a magnet. So no Trick blades are not cheap or easy. It requires an understanding of tiles, surfaces, and the trajectory. Plus it’s the most map-dependent add-on. If you go to Yamaoka, Swamp, Autohaven... you’ll notice that those tiles are not completely flat and that more objects have dents in them when you look at them very closely which visually might encourage you to shoot from afar but they don't allow the knives to bounce as you wish.
From what I’m seeing, you only played Trickster one way and believe that everyone should play him like that. In the Trickster community, as I said you’re a Shoes gamer a.k.a. Trickster that’s a wannabe Huntress. Keep playing him as you like but by ignoring his power identity you’re making him out to be a Huntress, which he’s not. Do not expect the rest of us to obey your “my way is the only way " philosophy.
Another thing, while mentioning that your rework is bad I've given you the issues it has. A 4.6 ranged killer is hard to balance:
AND WHY I’m not giving you fixes since your version just wouldn’t work.
Do these clips make me a master Trickster? (headphones gamer warning) Look at all the COOL moments I've experienced I must be better than everyone cause I mastered him and was able to do all of this, RIGHT?! :))
https://clips.twitch.tv/GiantObeseDunlinItsBoshyTime-uDUTCLmE1AA0avna?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/HorribleBashfulLyrebirdPeteZaroll-dut_v_-HFrxquaT9?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/HyperTrustworthySheepYouWHY-hOQxRRpZoY-Jz-8y?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/WildWittyGarbageDuDudu-BctjNldAdMxCEKUT?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/AntsyPiercingCarrotTakeNRG-Iwdw_vTKg4k38OHt?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/GrossSilkyTeaShadyLulu-pcDzk4KfwJvB_LHv?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/TawdrySaltyAsteriskYouDontSay-LuzqtmxkdCiYats7?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/BrainyVenomousSangCmonBruh-gAIPMrLEGSLzz35v?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/SucculentApatheticButterPeteZarollTie-dg3X0IxquUuk118f?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/BadSweetHorseradishBudStar-TJk2g8tP0oL9pHhW?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/FlirtyPunchyLeopardHeyGuys-sAsbvPsDjuE3GQ1G?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/ConfidentHonestMagpieBlargNaut-MUncLZft0wgA74gR?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/HelpfulSquareQuailDogFace-mvMAt5fGgK0w7nTs?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/SpookyDeadTrayANELE-yvXKx6koCJjbfZLm?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/BenevolentColdbloodedGuanacoTBTacoRight-gMZiEt2RBisZPrme?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/CuriousTemperedWatermelonSeemsGood-4o-4lVbfgk0cSj5H?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/ConcernedDaintyCrabNerfBlueBlaster-FfCIgkY9Ie-2aEED?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/CalmSpinelessDogMVGame-4TERKGc6QagLKhlY?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/BloodyLittleCrocodileFeelsBadMan-hpXz1gBQ0RlP_BOr?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/BashfulExpensiveMartenPraiseIt-93F-adkiL_oeRAe8?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/RespectfulDepressedFriseeNotLikeThis-TIprzhiE5T2Qm9dH?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/YawningPeacefulPancakeHotPokket-QszT70GlkoMSSqOm?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/CloudyRelatedStinkbugBloodTrail-zOwyKC5tKvOpdxPK?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/IronicSparklingSoymilkOhMyDog-G8DBolY5J_fHJBHb?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/VastRealSalsifyDoritosChip-zU2VmQ3vQQOCVsvD?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/ColdComfortableVampireLitty-ggZp7ImOg5GC5As3?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/BovinePlainInternCharlietheUnicorn-TSL-F_Z_FSWP8SOS?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/PlausiblePlacidAniseCeilingCat-NLUFb7LqfGry5-jp?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/DeliciousAltruisticAsteriskTwitchRPG-eGsp_xhsvoLiTRdN?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/SlipperyAgreeableCatKappaClaus-ptvrEo4dfBIGI_g0?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/EntertainingGorgeousCocoaKappaWealth-P9Wmnk6BplGl7fhE?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1525970620
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1670200108
https://clips.twitch.tv/LuckyProductiveRedpandaHotPokket--EfQtF4eoFlkHAw5?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/PoisedAnnoyingLobsterChocolateRain-zladk8W0LO26EyCH?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/RelievedFrozenSquirrelOMGScoots-F6O74Fc8_s_l525V?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/DifferentRelentlessChipmunkYee-09U-CznptIfkbTmB?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/CourteousSilkyWalletStrawBeary-evx2Hyit6vg9yQ6Y?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://clips.twitch.tv/ConsiderateSpunkyPepperBibleThump-qhnLR7CY7Uv7HJ8A?tt_content=url&tt_medium=clips_api
https://www.twitch.tv/endzej_/clip/TalentedEnjoyablePigeonPMSTwin-dFdTLd7pdnqPUj0W?filter=clips&range=7d&sort=time https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1772092167Whoever Watched all of these you're a LEGEND <3 there could've been more posted but it's biga## library of clips to go through. Hope you enjoyed it.
Some might find certain clips impressive and others not. But since I've experienced all of these cool moments I'm a MASTER TRICKSTER (satire)
This year I'll pay my mods to clip more cause who knows how many cool moments have been missed. :((
I believe snipe and slow style can be enabled through addons very easily. reintroducing things like original Death Throes Compilation could help in enabling that style, but there's a lot of room for it.
Addons that enable:
-Increased damage at long range
-lower laceration meter in exchange for being 4.4 m/s
-never missing making you more efficient ( as currently going for never-miss playstyle is simply inefficient)
also addons that amplify or have effects that affect you always however have special effects if you reach high combo level have the potential to add addons that give both playstyles very interesting variety. Hopefully BHVR is taking note here because there's a LOT of very good ideas that I think are circulating on this character from all sides. We all want our playstyles to matter, but a good baseline that allows for each playstyle to exist to a small extent in the base-kit and then "Fine tune" with addons is just the best avenue to take with the killer. any mechanic that punishes instead of encourages is very antithetical to this thought process and i believe seeks to keep one playstyle prevalent while underpowering all other playstyles (which i believe is kinda unfun and dull) also i want to say that some addons simply don't add anything to the kit and just add problems for both sides.
I think this covers all addons, but one thing is certain- main even being super common requires an oni-style notifcation. There's easy fixes to this current version that allow for all of the Trickster playstyles to be catered to without completely throwing this version out of the window.
PLEASE FORGIVE ME IM SO BAD AT FORMATTING LOL -Revium <3
I also want to clarify on the types of addons that could be enabled though combo system. combo system encourages you to play slow and never miss with a big payoff in main event. Addons that facilitate combo could look something like:
-Cut thru single
Obviously i'm not a game designer, but adding these little easter egg power spikes to combo could give a really interesting hype boost to patient tricksters, while not eliminating any playstyles.
Honestly every addon could have a "supercharged effect" like this due to how rare A and S tier combo's are in common play, patient and slow Trickster DESERVES TO BE REWARDED and it would be a very fun in the moment choice to say "do i want to go for a combo here in order to set up for shack soon, or do i want to go fast to keep my time efficiency"
There's so many upsides, and I'm so hyped for what a feature like this could do for gameplay variety and long-term enjoyment of Trickster, we want flare, we want stylish, we want the ability to laugh along with trickster as we're doing these wild displays. Main event deserves to be the dazzling display we see its potential in being, hopefully this would push it in the right direction for both thematic and gameplay flare.
The current is not 6
Very True.
It is a difficult one, because he has to be in a certain tier of strength but not too much or or else as you said he becomes oppressive and also miserable to go against. I feel like part of the issue is as a design is the counter play is just hold forward and put objects between you and him since even in a very strong but low wall loop for instance there is nothing you can do, he is also a heavily strong camper. The changes to main event also make him into a (potential) snowballing and camping machine.
As you said the laceration being only 10 seconds made him too weak and the 15 is a little too oppressive. Funny thing is they actually did the 10 second thing to make "dodging" a knife feel more impactful, not realising that it also makes the already strong counter play of holding forward and putting objects in the way so much more effective against him.
I don't think both styles can co-exist, because you AGAIN decided to super nerf Memento Blades, just for your own personal playstyle. You are fully aware of how many people like the current effect of Memento Blades, yet you repeatedly try to rip that addon away from us.
And the movement speed addons are important for many console players, or other people that just aren’t very good at aiming, because it allows people to try to use his M2 often, without feeling like they’re getting overly punished for trying to use his M2. Saying it “teaches bad habits” is sort of shaming people that just want to play a character that they might not be super good at. These addons lower the barrier of entry for Trickster, which is a good thing.
And the movement speed addons aren’t “taking skill away” from the killer, because the people using these addons aren’t super good at aiming, which means they are using these addons for quality of life purposes. Nerfing or reworking these addons isn’t likely to force these people to “get better” at the killer. It’s more likely it would cause these people to use his M2 much less, feel like his M2 is not worth using, and just stop playing the killer.
I think it’s important to have at least one ranged character that’s beginner friendly, because many new players have experience with FPS games, where the primary attacks involve projectiles, but before Trickster’s rework, all the projectile killers in DBD were so clunky and purposely difficult for new players, that it causes a barrier of entry problem for this game. Yes, it would be even better if BHVR could find a way to make Huntress beginner friendly, since she is a default character, but the Trickster rework was a good start.
My aim would be to add accessibility and the ramping throw speed increase to base-kit, a large % of the playerbase currently feel dependent on memento base-kit. I've posted a proposed throw rate pass above in order to keep tricksters feel "evergreen" and not change muscle memory, trickster addons should change utility imo and never make you less well off or feel less fun when not using them. Memento suffers from this issue quite a bit but i think it could stay, I definitely agree memento is fun to use but i also think ramping would be a great tuning knob to utilize for other addons. <3
Also you seem to be confusing me with someone else, I have no proposed nerfs at all lol.
Since you asked my thoughts, I wanted to take some time before answering right away-
6 Knife to Injure
If he was 4.4 m/s then 6 blades is okay.
Laceration Decay
It shouldn't be less than 15s Laceration decay. If he was 10 like before or even 12s, like others have said he would need to shoot faster, but if he shoots faster, then he needs to be 4.4 m/s. If his decay was any faster, it pressures you to get down quickly, maybe even just m1, and would eliminate many playstyles, including yours, for more of the spamming you are concerned about.
Laceration Meter
The laceration meter decay suggestion, I’m having a hard time following. Correct me if I am wrong, but you are saying…if the laceration meter, the individual bar, was halfway to disintegrating, and you hit a blade on a survivor, rather than refreshing that particular disintegrating laceration, you get that laceration back as it resets, and then gain a laceration beyond that? Thats interesting, but again I dont think he should be below 15s. BHVR doesn't want him to not be 4.6, and in the PTB version, 6 blades to injure/12 to down, was thought to be too much on the survivor's end. It all has to fit together based on him being 4.6. If you alter any part of his kit then everything else in that kit needs to be altered and balanced to a similar degree.
Combo System
I definitely like the idea of the Combo system for this Trickster, I just think its weak as hell right now, and needs a significant buff to be a worthwhile reward. I’ve seen some creative ideas with the Combo System from Revvium and it makes me think that it can be used to alleviate some of the complaints about this Trickster. So I wouldn't throw that out, BHVR is on to something there. Definitely would appreciate a reward system for accuracy and for a longer Main Event.
Main Event
Main Event activating at 6, it always felt cheap to me. But in PTB, his overall strength made me think I liked it…. But 6 is just so frequent…8 does feel better. I see what you are doing though with lowering it to keep the negative charges idea, but I just don’t think a punishment system is the way to go with Trickster. BHVR's goal was to make this character more inviting. And I want him to be challenging like 4.4 Trickster, but not frustrating. There are lots of reasons you can miss a knife, things out of your control, and needing new Main Event in a clutch moment, and not being able to pop it, sounds frustrating.
Add-ons
I read your add-ons, but more or less they feel lackluster. It doesn’t offer anything that makes this character special or unique to him. Like all the things we’ve already seen in the usual perks… Even one of my suggestions had Oblivious but the more I think about it, I think I would prefer scream reveal, as its more in line with lore, while also preventing some complications of what this character is capable of and why he has a lullaby. So I would say no Oblivous embedded in his add-ons
I’m hoping for more punch and creativity from BHVR on these add-ons, with Trickster specifically in mind.
But three add-on suggestions you have suggested, I do want to comment on are Trick Blades, Photo Card (PC) and Death Throes Compilation (DTC). Because I think you might not know how some of these are used or how they can be useful. If you are used to sticking to what you know and like, then I can see why. Its good to really branch out and talk with other Trickster Mains who play different ways to get a healthier opinion on add-ons and perks in general.
Trick Blades
There is no reason Trick Blades should be nerfed. Trick Blades takes a lot of skill to master, and a lot of time and memory of surfaces and maps. Spamming is not something you can stop bad Tricksters from doing.... but reloading frequently will and then they will lose because they spent too much time at lockers.
Sniping with Trick Blades at a distance, and actually downing someone with a second bounce is rare, very rare. Seeing someone do them in a compilation clip is cherry picked, and I guarantee took ages to make. If you even see it happen. Having a 20-meter limit is just taking away a very rare fun thing that MIGHT happen these blades.
Not to mention Trick Blades is often used for information, with throwing Main Event Trick blades out into environment to see where people are hiding or stealthing. That extra bounce at a distance helps. But most bounces that result in a hit are calculated when done by masters, so if someone could get a second bounce to down someone…then they deserve that down. Its also very in line with this character from a lore point of view. It adds to his showy maniac personality. It’s the little things, like blades chaotically bouncing around.
Photocard
Why are we nerfing Photocard? Since most people don’t play Trickster to m1 the majority of a match, and the accuracy required to make use of that 6 or 7 percent stack would mean you really earned it....it feels unnecessary to nerf to 5. Most people use PC to take those long snipes or hole shots, then use the speed to catch up since you probably lost sight of a survivor, who has gained distance. I would say this add-on we should at the very least keep as is, for people that want to play more like your style.
Death Throes Compilation
I have been finding value in the aura reading for Main Event with DTC and Tequila. I really enjoy it to be honest, but it feels like that is more of a purple add on, and DTC is lackluster as is.
I have said it could use more punch in my suggestions on the original Trickster forum, whether it makes other survivors scream or reveals their aura, I don’t know what but it needs something more… just a punch to it. It is iri after all.
However, I loved and strived for the no-reload playstyle of 4.4 Trickster, I would not mind an add-on replenishing knives based on accuracy with Main Event. But it could not be the same way as old DTC with a frequent Main Event, and need some difficulty to get blades back. If you are suggesting that, I think it would be worth testing, but you better be ready to go to bat for it cause even if it was difficult to do, as soon as people see the top 5 percent Tricksters master it/or do it, they will call for nerfs not realizing how 95% of Tricksters will struggle to get it more than once a match.
Hope that helps.
Did not mean for that to post twice....
Addons shouldnt be made with a specific platform in mind, they should be about the character and playstyle.
Although I am fine with the new version of Trickster...I think it would be a mistake, and ruin everything that is rewarding about him to think that this character should be easy. It would be a mistake to treat him like he should be the easiest of the ranged killers too. I didn't mind 4.4 version, and yeah I sucked with him when I started....but I never expected to just be good at him without practice, without time. So it baffles me when people said hes "too hard" or hes "unplayable" but dont want to put the time in either.
I dunno, I just dont see why people shy away from things that take time to master. With anything....
Some addons he has can make casual players feel better and dont have to worry about getting better at the character or putting too much time into DBD. No one should shame them for that, however, the moment a casual player or a player who doesn't want to learn how to get better with Trickster, starts complaining about losing....or starts giving opinions about how the character's base kit should be because they didnt put the time in to get better, or can't take advice from people who play this character really well....then thats different, thats not okay either. I see it all the time and its very frustrating to hear as someone who got better by just playing the character more...especially when people said he wasn't playable on console. That lead me to playing him more, just to prove to people they weren't actually trying.
Like if you dont play this game often or play Trickster much thats okay. It truly is okay to just be bad, have bad aim and play for fun. You dont need 3ks or 4ks to have fun with this character. There are other characters as well, that are purposefully made beginner-friendly. Trickster is a hard character to learn, or moderate as BHVR has listed. Thats what makes him fun.
Rant over...
Honestly rereading this, i don't hate this. I'd very much prefer to keep combo as a modifier for certain addon effects in the happenstance that you get a B-S tier combo and keep the basekit value low though. I much prefer addons that interact with a system thats interesting rather than fiddling with survivors internal clock for timing out laceration decay, i have a few other comments and critiques:
This is all I can really think of at the moment, glad I went back and reread to conceptualize in my head. Excited for the future and hoping for some sort of response soon from the team.
Thanks- Revvium <3
I think the best thing about reading this is it's opened my eyes about laceration, if decay started sooner but took longer to drain you could create a "Race against the clock" mentality where the survivors goal is to drain your bar out. Currently this gameplay loop results in either full drain scenario's or never ever decaying. Adjusting decay period to be longer basekit could give survivors a better concept of agency within the chase without directly hurting trickster's power level overall.
For ease of understanding conceptualize this exaggerated value:
I hope this explains why I think this is such a groundbreaking difference of gameplay loop for survivor experience and also just trickster overall OP explained the decay better than I did but, we'd love to see those neon strikes on survivor side not be bugged again and this kind of thing would help with that.
6 better than 8 is not good for game
because he is now 4.6 killer
he power can not better than 4.4
I see a lot of people say this but with no explanation as to why. There's plenty of killers who are 115 that are much stronger and generally have less direct counterplay than Trickster. Just look at Blight and Billy on PTB, look at Artist, look at Xeno. Even Slinger has less counterplay than Trickster and he's 110, so I genuinely don't see why he can't just be 115 with his old stats, considering how fair his knives were across the board, and especially considering the nerfs I gave him to compensate his new speed and such.
Is there a single good reason why he can't be a good 115 killer, or is it just because of precedent? He's 115 right now and I still think he's less fair and interesting than old Trickster by a mile. I would at LEAST want to try it and see if it's actually too much, but nobody's willing to have that conversation it seems
I feel bad for all those who loved this old trickster version. I tried this new version as my first time playing the character. That is the last time I will play trickster.
like ptb blight.
if trickster want 6 knife/s it need a cool down when use knife damage survivor.
when trickster is 4.4 m/s 1.5s 100% knife dmg is good for trickster.
but trickster is now 4.6m/s killer, if 3.33 knife/s still only need 6 knife to dmg survivor is 1.8s but just Throw 1knife and use 4.6 to hit is too powful.
because if not dodge knife, 1.8s will be hit. but if dodge, The distance from the trickster will quickly brought closer.
Especially since there is no recoil at the moment.
4.6m/s OR Faster dmg by knife. is Choice by DBD.
this time they think this way is balance.
4.6m/s，3.33 k/s，8hit dmg. take dmg need 2.4s. even if trickster want to use fake throw, survivor still have a chance.
Thats why I requested the other changes though, I aimed to make Trickster good and require smart counterplay to avoid dmg. He isn't easy and never will be, as long as stuff like main event is kept in check. Being 115 doesn't change that, he's limited by his ammo, lack of mobility, extreme precision, and sometimes map design too. I think all of that more than makes up for his ability being good. 115s just aren't good enough on their own without a good power to be a threat, as you typically need mobility of some kind to get hits.
Trickster would not be oppressive even with the stats i proposed. His power would still primarily feel the same way it always had, and has the same counterplay it used to. He'd just be better equipped to handle more situations and loops. If you don't want to lose your health states quickly, then don't let a 115 killer who has no mobility power get that close to you in the first place, and don't stay out in the open when he literally has a 48m warning range and has to hit you 6 times, giving you enough warning to start running somewhere. its simple really
44m Lullaby but Visually 40m.
Yes, survivor can 40m keep away from killer.
but survivor don't.
just like 16m anti-camp.
because survivor don't understand abandon that survivor or cooperation save. so anti-camp is come now.
Trickster is the same
Decided to brush up on the actual post itself and fill it with all my updated thoughts and my updated suggested rework. If anyone's willing to re-read it to see my more concise thoughts, godspeed. I'd appreciate it.
And again, I'm pretty open to any suggestions for add-ons and other misc basekit changes that aren't major. When I was given feedback, I changed my tune, and I'm always willing to do that. But I won't back down from my core belief that Trickster should be allowed to feel like his old self while still being 115. That change alone is not major enough to warrant the neutering of his power to the degree we see in current trickster.