Should killers see hook stages?
Question is in the title.
Honestly, I see no reason why the killer shouldn't be allowed to see the hook stages. It wouldn't really make tunneling easier but it might help killers, who want to go for as many hooks as possible.
I personally don't have a lot of trouble counting hook stages but I did experiment with it before and made a point out of not counting and the results were an average of 5.4 hooks for the first kill. This is what happens when I do not count hooks and simply go for whoever I can find / down quickly. Now, I don't know about you, but I'd rather play against a killer, who gets their first kill at 9 hooks than at 5.
Now consider what a killer needs to do in order to tunnel as opposed to what they need to do in order to play as 'fair' as possible. Tunneling requires a killer to count to 3. Going for as many hooks as possible on the other hand requires them to count to 2 on 4 different survivors. So it's actually easier to tunnel. Is that really what we want?
What do you think about it?
Comments
Well as I say, I'm not really too invested either way, however to answer your question:
why is it a skill that the survivors don't need to have anymore?
The difference between Killer snd Survivor is as a Killer you were there for all the hooks. Unless I've been hitting the whiskey hard, if I'm playing properly, I am thinking about hook stages actively and have no issue tracking hooks.
As survivor you more often than not don't see it first hand, you only see the HUD change most of the time, so you have no events in your memory to call upon to remember hook stages... so it is far harder to recall which person was hooked and how many times at any given monemt.
There is also the fact that survivors are meant to be a team, and having it on HUD reduces the difference of SWF. You just check HUD instead if having to ask your buddy if you have to check. Killer is alone, you only have to recall information relevant to you.
So that's why Survivors get these improvements, and my overarching point is, the Killer doesn't need it really. I don't agree with the tunneling argument, as a killer wanting to tunnel won't need this HUD at all...
I just see this change as making the killer role a little lazier... which in fairness, when I'm being chill kland lazy would be handy... but when I'm being serious it's a little less engaging. Depending on my mood, enjoyment/engagement gets slightly better, or slightly worse, so I'm not really bothered.
No, killer seeing hook stages of each survivor is akin to survivor seeing hook stages of each survivor. It was a basic skill for both sides, but they removed it on the survivor side. May as well make it fair and do the same for killer for all the killers that want to play nice. Or revert it for survivor and add back in that "basic skill" to them.
The answer is pretty simple. It’s the same reason why the game took 7 years to even get mention of a FOV slider for Killers.
Devs don’t care lol. Allowing Killer to see hook states would help with hook token based perks like pain resonance and no way out. I guess such a QOL is too much to ask for as it would boost kill rates drastically (sarcasm).
Nope, killer's hook tacker is not like survivors seeing a gen's aura. We still need to find our objectives (just one of those aren't keep running around).
If you want an actually fitting analogy, it's the same as survivors being able to see a gen's level of progress. And they do.
Yes, they should at this point.
People that will play smart memorize hooks already for years..
The only people forgetting who they have hooked are people not going out of their way to tunnel. Tunnelers specifically keep track of who to tunnel. Again, it's only hurting killers who are NOT actively trying to tunnel.
BOOP🐽
Right, gens done is missing as well. Thats easier to remember than hook stages of individual survivors, but still I'm not sure every now and then whether it was still two or three left.
I highly disagree with everything claiming showing hooks won't encourage tunneling. Sure, if someone wants to tunnel a survivor from the beginning it won't change anything for them. But if a killer who wasn't thinking about hooks before looks at the counter, and notices one survivor has more hooks than the others, I could definitely see many players deciding they want to go out of their way to hunt that survivor.
I say this as someone who generally goes for 8 hooks before sacrificing. I believe it would change a lot of killer players' mindsets, and overall negatively affect the experience of survivors with more hook states.
Eh I wouldn't want it.
There is far to much shared information at the moment. All the mystery, guesswork and thought is largely gone.
I think it would just be another piece of information cluttering an increasingly cluttered UI.
But, I think that, if the killer's playing normally and suddenly notices that someone's on death hook and then decides to target them for some strategic reason, they should have the right to do that. The point of showing hook state progress to the survivors is so that they can organize to protect whoever's on death hook -- so, if the survivors have the opportunity to strategize based on knowing who's on death hook, why can't the killer strategize based on the same info?
absolutely not
the only reason to want to see it, is to either tunnel people out harder or to intentionally avoid removing someone.... in my experience, while not every killer tunnels, very very few will ignore a survivor that they stumble upon and then ignore them due 'cause it might kill them.
Not every killer would exploit the info, i don't think anyone would use it altruistically, so no way
As the guy above said - "Counting hooks is a basic killer skill".
But also, I can't see any reason to have that option. Like why?
I think the Entity purposely not allowing it.
To everyone saying it's the killers responsibility to track their objective or that this is only wanted to make it easier to tunnel.... that's completely backwards.
This doesn't benefit tunnellers, who are more than capable of remembering ONE survivor.
But when you're trying NOT to tunnel someone, and there are multiples of the same survivor, or people are going to 2nd stage for whatever reason, it becomes difficult to track that information across FOUR survivors while also maintaining the gamesense needed to score downs and hooks at the same time.
This benefits killers who are avoiding tunneling in the name of good sportsmanship, or for farming. It is literally not 'tracking the objective', it's tracking the delay of the objective.
I realise it's easy to assume all killers are tunneling campers who hit you on the hook and bleed you out for four minutes, but some of us actually try to play fair.
At the very least, I would like some indication that the survivor I've picked up or downed is on death hook. So that if I need to, I can drop them as a slug or let them wiggle free.
This is already possible with an Ebony Mori, but it shouldn't be necessary to run one just for this when you don't intend to actually trigger the mori.
Nah. It's not necessary. And it would help certain killers tunnel. Or not even tunnel, but make decisions on who to go for next. For instance if they killer comes across 3 survivors working on the last gen. A killer who was actively paying attention will remember that Claudette and Jane have 1 hook and David has 2, so they can go for David to secure a kill or one of the others to spread hooks if that's what they want. But people forget either because they are distracted or just have a weaker memory. Maybe they had just a long chase with the other survivor and they are a bit frustrated because it didn't go well. Who knows. But if the game puts what basically amounts to a giant red arrow above David's head then that requires zero input on the killer's part. And that handholding could very easily turn the game in the killer's favor.
Every time this topic comes up everybody likes to play cute and say "well I want it because I like to spread hooks 😇😇😇." It's disingenuous. If that's your goal then pay attention.
And to people who say "well why do survivors get it? They can pay attention to!" And they can, and I'd rather have it go away for survivors before be added for killers. However, paying attention to who you personally put on a hook is way different from paying attention to the actions of two other players when you're not seeing or participating in those actions. It's not even remotely the same thing.
So your argument is that killers shouldn't have it because they might forget who they hooked?
That can happen. But only when they play nice. If I were to tunnel someone immediately I would only need to focus on that 1 survivor. I wouldn't need to remember how many times I've hooked them because
1) the game tells you how many hook stages you got in total.
2) it doesn't matter. They are going to die anyway. Whether or not it is the very next hook doesn't make a difference. They are still going to die early.
Again, this is not going to help with tunneling. A killer that wants to tunnel will still play the exact same way no matter, if they have that information or not. If my memory would make it troublesome for me to count hook stages, you can bet I would tunnel from the get go. That doesn't require me to do anything other than focus on one survivor. I think it's fair to say that everyone, who plays this game is capable of that.
The reason I would like to see this feature is because tunneling requires less brain power than spreading hooks. You don't need to count hook stages to tunnel. Just remember which survivor you wan to kill. It's not difficult. Basically, there are a million things that incentivise the killer to tunnel and none against it.
I don't need this feature but it is not a nice feeling when you have to pay attention to play 'fair', when tunneling on the other hand is doesn't require that. You either tunnel or you go out of your way and put more effort into playing nice. Shouldn't it be the other way around? But since that is not really achievable, it would only make sense to support killers, who go for different survivors, no?
I don't really see why not. A killer who wants to tunnel is just going to keep track of one player's hook stages anyway. And it leads to confusion at all skill levels when there are multiple survivors on the same character. The only thing hiding individual hook stages does is confuse newer killers. Most vets are able to subconsciously track hook stages anyway. It's fake gameplay depth and doesn't add anything meaningful.
I chalk this one up to QoL more than anything. You aren't adding anything to gameplay by hiding it. The only reason you even have to mentally track it is if you're not tunneling. If you are tunneling, you aren't going to lose track of hook stages on one player, because you're, ya know... tunneling. You're basically saying you need to hide it because you're afraid people will count to 3. It's a really silly mechanic to me and doesn't do anything to stop what it's meant to prevent.
Eh, I really don't like the idea of making it easier to tunnel, but I when I'm memeing, chilling or want to let someone live, it would be useful to know not to hook them. I really don't think there's a good solution for this.
Yes, absolutely changes nothing, as you can probably tell, been wanting this forever, lol
We are hoomans, we make mistakes or get sidetracked sometimes
That "gamesense" is only for killers who wanna try, so they are obviously going to keep track, but for those who want to just 2 hook everyone, I cannot see the problems if they just wanna chill
...dejavu exists
After 12 or so seconds, I can't exactly remember
and survivors couldnt just count as well?
Auditory warning when you down a survivor on death hook. Non-abusable and saves games from accidently tunnelling someone out early. The best compromise you can have.
Indeed, hoomans we are, and from mistakes we learn.
No a Killer shouldnt see the hook states.
I half expect the people being against individual hook states UI for Killers to come out and say that Auras shouldn’t be color customizable because Survivor auras being able to “blend in” with Generator auras should be part of the game.
That might be the reason why Killer has gotten so little over 7 years in the QOL department.
Bro you have no idea how many times I accidentally tunneled people because I had no idea they got to second hook stage.. I would’ve slugged to give them another chance
I honestly don´t know why survivors and killers have different hook counters. Like... do the devs really think that its easier for killers to keep track of the different hook stages than it is for survivors?
I would much prefer to spread out my hooks over going for someone too soon who's been on hook so yea I think it being up on the hud would be nice.
Especially for matches that end in farming when someone DCs and I want to play seriously until everyone is double hooked before I'm friendly. I hate to accidentally kill someone in those games rip.
I do try to count and can generally remember but not always.
As for tunneling - a killer is going to remember who they want out of the game. I guess I could see a killer pivoting to someone who's death hook near end game but thats more or less them securing a kill imo and would happen with or without the indicator.
They absolutely should. I'm surprised they can't. Has Behaviour given a reason why they don't let them?