Is escape through hatch fair?

Survivors can use the perk “left behind”, keys, and their much larger view to help them find and escape the hatch fairly easy. Killers seem to be at a disadvantage when it comes to hatch escapes because of their smaller POV, and no perk to help them find it, or keep it closed when they do. Is there room to level that playing field?

Comments

  • @hermitkermit said:

    If the killer wasn't able to completely ignore hatch by slugging the last 2 survivors I would agree that it is unfair. But most of the time killers wont even bother hooking the last survivor so they can avoid hatch all together. They just slug and wait and then down both of them.

    if hatch didn't mean a loss for the killer by any means we wouldn't have to see those either.

  • @MrPenguin said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542669#Comment_3542669

    Ok that's fine.

    The original question was was it fair, and no it's not since it only favors one side and killers have no equal. My main point was that and that's the stance I was defending.

    That doesn't mean it needs to be changed. I think it can be improved or a better system can be put in its place, but I also don't think that necessarily needs to happen. I would prefer if it did but that's about it. I'm fine if it doesn't.

    I think some of those aspects got lost in the mess.

    But killers have the advantage. I don't think it's fair for a guarenteed 4k every time gens don't get finished.

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543068#Comment_3543068

    But killers have the advantage. I don't think it's fair for a guarenteed 4k every time gens don't get finished.

    Guaranteed kill for me but not "guaranteed" escape for thee!

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543068#Comment_3543068

    But killers have the advantage. I don't think it's fair for a guarenteed 4k every time gens don't get finished.

    That's only 1 potential option, there are/were others.

    Advantage =/= guaranteed.

    Killers probably should have the advantage considering the survivors failed their objective and the killer succeeded in theirs.

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543068#Comment_3543068

    But killers have the advantage. I don't think it's fair for a guarenteed 4k every time gens don't get finished.

    it's not about the singular kill, it's more about the problems the existence of hatch bears.

    do you like teammates that won't show up ever to take aggro so people get "tunnelled" out? or you like that one survivor that suddenly decides match is lost and starts doing nothing when all 4 survivors are still alive? or people that load in with the sole intention of griefing the match with a key, a basement offering, sole survivor and wake up, doing a stupid escape streak? or the infamous "slug for the 4k"ers you get every other match?

    yes if hatch didn't exist those won't happen ever again, because their best bet is to contribute and progress the match to escape, and not hide and play selfish in a TEAM game.

  • In order to get value form left behind you have to go in with the intention of giving up at least part way through.

    TBH if 1 survivor escapes why do you care, it's still a 3 man kill. Luck is also a big factor with hatch escapes?

  • Based on "luck", given The Hatch is invisible until it can be used, a Survivor or the Killer can find it immediately and use it.

    • This is unfair for Killers given the Survivor had to do very little to end the match if The Hatch spawned under the Survivor.
    • This is unfair for Survivors who didn't have a chance to even attempt to search for the Hatch if The Hatch spawned under The Killer.

    Closing The Hatch starts the EGC

    • This requires the Killer to still patrol the Exit Gates after already finding The Hatch, which is unfair given they already had to drop everything to search for The Hatch. Though this is a map-dependent issue.

    When closed, a Survivor with a Key can open the Hatch (I believe even a Key without any charges so long as it's an eligible Key).

    • This is unfair for the Killer who already found The Hatch and now must patrol the Exit Gates.
    • This is unfair for Survivors if they choose not to bring a Key, given the Key user can still use their item and can then use its additional effect.


    Personally, I'd make it so that Bloodweb Keys can no longer open the hatch, the hatch is closed by default when it spawns, a closed hatch still emits a muted audio cue, and a special Hatch-specific Key spawns in the basement when all Totems are cleansed.

    • This prevents Survivors having immediate access to The Hatch escape without any effort being put in.
    • This removes item disparity given niche use cases.
    • The Hatch starting closed prevents the EGC being a significant part of Killer Hatch gameplay.
    • This provides a base-game mechanic for Totems.
  • @NerfDHalready said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542972#Comment_3542972

    survivors have an objective to do in order to escape: do gens and then gates. a game mechanic that only exists to cover core game flaws doesn't need to award absurd amounts of bloodpoints, again, causing selfish playstyles to develop.

    hatch wouldn't be an issue if it didn't give any bp, and if survivor escaped that way killer still got their score events as if they killed the last survivor, and their achievements/challenges. in other words, if hatch just and only fulfilled its purpose to exist: preventing "never ending" games.

    hatch wouldn't be an issue if it didn't give any bp

    Someone else's BP is of no concern to you. To argue that hatch giving BP somehow makes it a problem is very misanthropic, almost like it's motivated purely by envy.

    No, it isn't. The last remaining survivor can very quickly close out the match by simply throwing themselves at a killer and letting them kill them. The hatch is not there to just end the match. It's actually the opposite: The hatch is there to keep the match going because there's still two opposing players left, in spite of the asymmetrical nature of the game making this an unwinnable situation.

    @MrPenguin said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542669#Comment_3542669

    Ok that's fine.

    The original question was was it fair, and no it's not since it only favors one side and killers have no equal. My main point was that and that's the stance I was defending.

    That doesn't mean it needs to be changed. I think it can be improved or a better system can be put in its place, but I also don't think that necessarily needs to happen. I would prefer if it did but that's about it. I'm fine if it doesn't.

    I think some of those aspects got lost in the mess.

    The original question was was it fair, and no it's not since it only favors one side and killers have no equal.

    The vast majority of mechanics only favour one side, that's part and parcel and even integral to an asymmetrical multiplayer. And no, killers DO have an equal, because they can still make kills at any point of the game. You can have zero kills when the doors open and still come out with a kill. (Or even more than one)

  • @MrPenguin said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543524#Comment_3543524

    That's only 1 potential option, there are/were others.

    Advantage =/= guaranteed.

    Killers probably should have the advantage considering the survivors failed their objective and the killer succeeded in theirs.

    Killer does have the advantage tho. When it goes to hatch it's generally easier for killer to find. Unless the surv is explicitly running hatch aura perks.

  • @NerfDHalready said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543524#Comment_3543524

    it's not about the singular kill, it's more about the problems the existence of hatch bears.

    do you like teammates that won't show up ever to take aggro so people get "tunnelled" out? or you like that one survivor that suddenly decides match is lost and starts doing nothing when all 4 survivors are still alive? or people that load in with the sole intention of griefing the match with a key, a basement offering, sole survivor and wake up, doing a stupid escape streak? or the infamous "slug for the 4k"ers you get every other match?

    yes if hatch didn't exist those won't happen ever again, because their best bet is to contribute and progress the match to escape, and not hide and play selfish in a TEAM game.

    Instead it gets replaced by people DCing or unaliving themselves on hook the second it looks like gens won't get done, because there's no other option to get out.

    Yh sure you get goons who just play for hatch but in my experience they are pretty rare. I can deal with the odd hatch players against how intolerable the survivor experience would be without hatch

  • @Firellius said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3542985#Comment_3542985

    hatch wouldn't be an issue if it didn't give any bp

    Someone else's BP is of no concern to you. To argue that hatch giving BP somehow makes it a problem is very misanthropic, almost like it's motivated purely by envy.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543051#Comment_3543051

    No, it isn't. The last remaining survivor can very quickly close out the match by simply throwing themselves at a killer and letting them kill them. The hatch is not there to just end the match. It's actually the opposite: The hatch is there to keep the match going because there's still two opposing players left, in spite of the asymmetrical nature of the game making this an unwinnable situation.

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543068#Comment_3543068

    The original question was was it fair, and no it's not since it only favors one side and killers have no equal.

    The vast majority of mechanics only favour one side, that's part and parcel and even integral to an asymmetrical multiplayer. And no, killers DO have an equal, because they can still make kills at any point of the game. You can have zero kills when the doors open and still come out with a kill. (Or even more than one)

    it becomes my concern when one of my teammates play for it and wait for me and others to die in corners of the map.

    No, it isn't. The last remaining survivor can very quickly...

    majority of people including the CoMa thinks/states it is there to prevent non ending situations, you are one of the few to accept you want your pity win. if the match is lost, it's lost. i'm arguing here hatch being the only motivation to continue playing the match out is a bad thing, because everyone knows how the person will play for the rest of the match. and who decides match is lost? the haddie after the killer gets some hooks at 5 gens, refusing to touch a gen, ever?

  • @HoodedWildKard said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543550#Comment_3543550

    Killer does have the advantage tho. When it goes to hatch it's generally easier for killer to find. Unless the surv is explicitly running hatch aura perks.

    I didn't mean that in the sense I disagree that they have the advantage finding hatch, they do. I just mean that's the way it should be/stay.

  • The hatch sound is actually a lot more muffled by the chase theme on survivor than on killer so it's not totally a disadvantage.

  • @NerfDHalready said:

    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3543740#Comment_3543740

    it becomes my concern when one of my teammates play for it and wait for me and others to die in corners of the map.

    No, it isn't. The last remaining survivor can very quickly...

    majority of people including the CoMa thinks/states it is there to prevent non ending situations, you are one of the few to accept you want your pity win. if the match is lost, it's lost. i'm arguing here hatch being the only motivation to continue playing the match out is a bad thing, because everyone knows how the person will play for the rest of the match. and who decides match is lost? the haddie after the killer gets some hooks at 5 gens, refusing to touch a gen, ever?

    "majority of people including the CoMa thinks/states it is there to prevent non ending situations, you are one of the few to accept you want your pity win"

    And a majority of people can still be incorrect.

    It's not a pity win, either. You folks are so focused on some Bill who's locker-hopping from the start of the match that you don't acknowledge the guy that's won two chases, did two gens, got a safe unhook, but got saddled with bad teammates.

    "i'm arguing here hatch being the only motivation to continue playing the match out is a bad thing, because everyone knows how the person will play for the rest of the match"

    Do you? Because I've only seen it once. Most folks that don't want to continue the match disconnect.

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