Hit and run is awful for the game and shouldn't be encouraged
Chase is the most fun part of dbd by far. Not a hot take until hit and run is brought up, interestingly enough. Hit and run is literally just the playstyle of injuring someone (hitting) and dropping chase to look for someone else (running). Usually done by a stealth killer who can get a first hit very easily, or legion, who can also get a first hit very easily. Specifically when done on stealth killers, the playstyle doesn't involve much chasing whatsoever. Just sneak up on someone, get an easy hit, leave, come back to them later while they're injured, do the same thing and get an easy down. It's the playstyle of not chasing, the playstyle of....not fun.
The only reason the people using this playstyle wouldn't immediately drop chase is if they could get a follow up hit quickly, as to say, people using this playstyle only commit to chases when it'll take them the least effort. This whole thing really doesn't take any skill or effort whatsoever, it literally only involves getting hits when they come to you, as opposed to actually having to work for them. It's lazy.
As if that wasn't enough, this playstyle is best and basically only useful for pubstomping. How are you gonna stop a killer from sneaking up on you while injured and getting an easy down? By healing. How are you gonna heal? Either by finding a teammate or using an item/perk. So you're basically either forced to bring a specific tool or play in a swf to reaslitically deal with this, because I guess solos didn't have enough crap to deal with? There's no easy way to find teammates to get healed in solo, so you either have to waste potentially a ridiculously long time trying to find a teammate, or accept that if the killer comes to your gen before you finish it, they will down you.
Remember, solos have to deal with this boring nonsense all because the killer takes on a strategy that doesn't take any skill. There's nothing you can actually reliably do about this. As long as the killer uses LOS blockers, you're just gonna get hit, there's hardly much higher of a skill ceiling to it because you can't see the killer from behind a wall. So we have a playstyle that takes no skill, is boring, and disproportionately impacts solos, why in the world do people like this? Counterarguments below, spoilered to make this post more compact :)
"It's scary, brings the horror back to dbd" No it's not, I mean, maybe for you, but be realistic. You find out who the killer is. you know they're gonna be stealthing, so you're just looking around you expecting the killer to show up. If you have any sense of awareness whatsoever, I don't see how it's scary. Personally, I'm just looking at the locations I can expect the killer to come from, and I'm not surprised or scared in the slightest when they show up. Not to mention, wraith and legion have very obvious sound cues before they get in your face, so they're even less scary.
"It takes skill" Can we be serious? No it doesn't. All you have to do with this is sneak up on survivors with LOS blockers as a stealth killer, get an easy hit since, you know, they literally had no way to know you were coming, and they literally just go somewhere else if you're a decent looper beyond that. I'm sorry but that doesn't represent skill in any universe, just taking the easy route every chance you get. Remember how wraith and legion are considered the easiest killers, because they are, because hit and run isn't hard.
"Like running in circles around a pallet is any fun" I begin to notice a pattern of dishonesty among defenders of hit and run defenders. Are we really gonna pretend this is all that happens in chase? Sure it's part of it, but there's also mindgames, respects, greeding, getting momentum for fast vaults, red stain mindgames, etc. a chase power if your killer is designed well enough to have one. Unfortunately not all of them have such a luxury, so they really are just forced into hit and run, it's a shame and it shouldn't be that way.
"Everything is OP vs solos" Yeah, and this isn't helping. There's a difference between something being more effective vs solos just because you're against solos and something that itself becomes stronger vs solos. Remember old eruption? There was something very obvious making that stronger vs solos, and it's the same here.
"(Anything that assumes I'm annoyed with the players themselves, or that I'm entitled enough to think I can say how other people should play the game, or something like that, typically something like 'what do you want the killer to do, chase you all game and lose 5 gens')" Dude, I do not care how you play the game, I care what BHVR chooses to encourage and what to discourage. I recognize hit and run is often a necessity because of killers without a chase power, maps, etc. Point is it shouldn't be like that. Maps should be fixed, I don't think anyones disagreeing with that, unless hit and run defenders are that dishonest?
"So killers can't camp, tunnel, 3 gen, slug, and now they can't hit and run? What are they supposed to do?" Depending on what's meant by that question, the answer is similar to the last one. If you mean what is the killer supposed to do as in, in the current state of dbd, I still don't care. Play how you want, jeez. If you mean how should killers be encouraged to play, that would be to chase!
"Survivors will never be satisfied until killers are unable to move and generators get completed in 5 seconds (or some nonsense like that)" Worst kinds of comments....generic and unconstructive, hoping I won't actually be expected to respond to anything like this
Please BHVR, buff solos to give them easier access to heal each other (altruism, another thing that's good for the game! im sure this is another take that only heats up when discussing hit and run), and make maps less crap and nerf some exhaustions so killers have the option of commiting to chases, because I can't even blame a sadako (for example) for turning to hit and run when she literally has no chase power in a state of dbd like this. I especially and definitely can't blame a legion, because their whole power was straight up designed to be like that for some reason.... Encourage chases! Please!
Edit: I might as well add, I don't mind if hit and running does something. Injuring someone should obviously put pressure on them somehow. It should slow the game down, but it should never lead to downs, ever, reserve does for actual skilled play. If the only way hit and run was touched was giving solos the info they need to find each other to heal, I think I'd be satisfied.
Comments
Your 'picture' amounts to "because I said so" which really isn't an argument.
No not at all.
Wow could have saved yourself a ton of effort if you led with that.
No it doesn't lol because you're acting like I want killers to do things to lose themselves the game for my own enjoyment which is dumb especially when I said I didn't already
Hit & Run is a good strategy to apply pressure on the whole team. Its either that or facecamping and tunneling.
Don't want to face that? Then don't get hit.
Genuinely what are you talking about lol. Saying I'm contradicting myself from a lot of nothing, you realize the alternative to playing safe for survivors is going down right? Meanwhile the alternative for killers is requests for maps to be made better/not being ass at chase. You're acting like it's the same when it's not lol, but I'm not surprised to hear such nonsense from a wraith player
There's more than 3 options
Also yeah, just don't get hit by a wraith who can sneak up on me from behind a wall, should just hide in a locker all game instead of falling for their "trap" of doing gens lol
Cool. Still stand by everything else I said lmao
"Hit and run should be discouraged because chases are more fun!"
There that's your entire argument. Every single paragraph is essentially repeating the same thing, including the two you screenshotted in response.
And my response will continue to be "to you maybe".
Yeah, chases are more fun, which everyone agrees with until they have to defend hit and run lol. - and also because it's lazy and hurts solos most so yeah, not as much just to me there
"I'm right because I say everyone agrees with me, and anyone who says otherwise is a DISHONEST LIAR. Now bare with me while I rephrase this in 50 different ways"
That sounds more like a you problem than the playerbase.
Just being real 🤷♀️ chase being the fun part of dbd is something that's always been said for ages, don't know what u want me to tell u
Yeah my bad, should've just seen the wraith from behind a wall, real mistake on my end, so much dishonesty it's sad
So go play a game that only has chases?
They're not deleting all the stealth killers or teleporting killers, or zone control killers, sorry you find them so boring.
Stealth killers can chase in concept, or be still interesting like ghost face, teleporting killers can obviously chase, and zone control killers idk who u mean besides trapper and hag but ye they're boring to go against as heck everyone knows that it's just camping w extra steps
You could have heard him, yeah
You disagree with me! So dishonest! We all know everyone agrees with me so you must be lying!
Hit and run is healthy for the game. If anything I’d encourage it further.
absolutely not XD no universe where thats true. even if it wasnt awful for solos, its boring and takes no skill
yeah heard him by the time hes already right next to me, so helpful that is
yeah i still have no idea what to tell you, sorry but like ? wait dawg did u reply to the wrong comment like lmao- didnt know it somehow wasnt dishonest to tell someone "just dont get hit lol" as if you can just see killers from behind walls xd
You could finnagle the wording to make nearly anything bad for solos. Being in a swf and on coms is going to make nearly everything better for them. This really isn't a point.
I also don't think it's that bad at all for solos.
Sneaking up, outplaying to get the hit if they see you coming and especially being able to multitask and juggle different survivors across the map is the epitome of skill. Understanding the macro gameplay of DBD as killer is way more skillful than the micro in simply understanding how to play a loop.
the micro in simply understanding how to play a loop.
to be fair, the vast majority of loops on survivor side run themselves and you have no control over them as killer other than survivor messing up as an m1 killer.
Eruption was problematicf for solos for more of a reason than just people "finnangling wording" also no, that may be skill, but hit and run doesn't involve all that understanding. Literally just dropping chase when it becomes the slightest bit too hard for you, that's not thinking about macro, that's lazy.
Really.....that's just god pallets, mid/unsafe pallets and most windows are very mindgameable
Cherry picking one of the few examples that work is literally the "finnangling" I was talking about. My statement is generally a true one in the vast majority of cases, even if you are able to find a couple small exceptions it doesn't disprove the overall point.
"Literally just dropping chase when it becomes the slightest bit too hard for you, that's not thinking about macro, that's lazy."
I don't think you understand high level DBD macro gameplay if this is what you think it is. This is not what it is whatsoever.
Macro gameplay of hit and run is understanding how long you can commit to chases, understanding the time you can commit based on the survivors location and its overall level of safety, understanding through game experience where each other survivor is and what they're doing, and utilizing this further to be able to multi pressure more than one survivor simultaneously or close out in a slug opportunity if they misplay. Understanding this well lets you prioritize your time efficiently in a game that is all about time management.
Very true. Which is another reason why I put skilled macro play as way, way more skillful than micro play.
I don't disagree with the statement but this is not one of those, it does work. Also when I say hit and run I'm not referring to literally just macro gameplay, I don't care about that. I'm talking about the playstyle that's just "oh I'll have to put in actual effort to get a hit here? ill just go bing bong and go somewhere else and maybe ill get a hit without having to put in effort there"
Really.....that's just god pallets
good looping players make safe pallet vs m1 killer into god pallets. you cannot mindgame them because of good survivors know check spots. that is why BL is ineffective vs good looper's if the pallet is mildly safe. there is no mindgames if you reaction slide a pallet slide. a safe pallet is safe by definition of you being able to reaction slide a pallet. Like the killer cannot lunge and hit you. he will miss and his lunge will hit the pallet. don't believe me? watch comp DBD. that is why like 70% of pallets or so for m1 killer are just instant break at that level of play. no anti-loop for killer = no way to express skill at the loops.
Literally just dropping chase when it becomes the slightest bit too hard for you, that's not thinking about macro, that's lazy.
When I am gideon's map. I am not leaving loops because I am lazy. I am leaving survivors because I know that survivor knows how to loop and will be chaining 10+ pallets before I get a hit on him. it is not about lazyness. it is about no real gameplay at loops other then pallet break simulator. that is why hit & run is needed for that map. this is true for most of the maps but it depends on survivor skill-level in looping and how well they can make loops safe.
i think micro play is skillful but not for m1 killer vs good loopers. you cannot express skill as m1 killer on garden of joy. the survivor express their skill onto you because loops are in their favor.
Damn, how much did Sadako hurt you?
Solos shouldn't have to use perks to do what swfs can do without perks
Of course it should, "third party applications" are always going to exist so ppl using them will be op otherwise, and trapper needs hella changes anyways so idk, not the best example
Passive bond would be massive buff to all survivors.
As long there are perks that encourage you to stay injured, then any buffs to injured state are also not really good.
Only thing in this aspect I would try is kindred effect (only survivor aura reading) whenever is someone on hook. That's basically point where soloQ needs most help. So you don't have multiple or no survivors going for unhook, you can also remember where are other players. Still buff, but not that massive as permanent aura readings.
Actually, 'Anti-Heal Hit & Run' is one of the best things Ghostface can try to do aside from hard slugging with knockout + double iri addons. The gens fly by so fast at this point that you're pretty screwed if you try to mark and chase point blank against players with half an idea of how to play.
Oh no, anything you figure out that has real stopping power, they pretty much want it gone. Survivor players are constantly lobbying to whittle away almost everything the killer can do to stop them, demanding that no matter what the killer kit, it needs to be virtually forced to play for 12 hooks inside an overly safe environment alongside short-fuse objectives so there's a great chance at escaping and hazing the killer at the gate. Survivors supplicate hard and BHvR has been thick enough to oblige for so long that the primary pick is Wesker, and now survivor players want the gelding iron heated up for him too, it's madness.
There should be only mechanics to help, no perks, swfs shouldn't be able to have more perk slots than solos just because there's "perks designed to help"
That wouldn't help solos find each other to heal up at all unless someone was hooked
On the ghost face part you're just wrong, sounds like you're just not good at ghost face? Knockout XD a perk which the main attractiveness of comes from denying aura reading. That on top of hit and run basically tells me you need more help vs solos than you already get, that's wild. And the second part, yeah, another senseless comment that's just "KILLERS CANT HAVE ANYTHING WAHH," come back when you wanna be constructive :) I'm very sorry that I want your brainless and boring playstyle to not be viable, so sorry that you would have to put effort into getting downs if it wasn't! What a scary thought
Comments can be as unconstructive as you want, but if they hold a popular opinion, doesn't matter, you can be brainless and get upvotes anyways :D
More ppl than whos paying attention to what I say, that seems for certain lmao
But dropping chase there is hardly even a hit and run playstyle, that's literally just macro. I'm not talking about that, dropping chase out of laziness is what I am talking about
If you think that macro gameplay is fine, you might also want to consider that the Killer got the first hit on you and doesn’t want to continue because they realized via perks or game sense that there was a much more important target to interrupt like two survivors sitting on a soon to be completed gen.
Players who do macro gameplay have an internal clock of how long they can commit to getting a hit/down/burning a pallet before they know they have to pressure other survivors. When I play Wraith, I do the same too.
This game is a 1v4, not a 1v1.
I typically only play the underdogs, you know, Pig, Myers, Sadako, Ghostie, etc...
Problem is that for a lot of M1 killers, hit and run is the most viable option for them, because they can't do extended chases without losing all the gens quickly. Gens go by extremely fast, and a lot of survivors WANT to be chased because they are running stuff like MFT, lithe, and other such kind of perks.
Make chases not always be at the cost of losing a gen or two then I'd consider sticking to chases.
Again, it's one of those problems that it doesn't hurt the powerful killers in chase but incredibly is harmful to killers who don't have a strong chase. BHVR can't just "fix it" across the board. If you want more killers chasing, then the weaker chase killers need their chase power bumped up. At the moment, the weak chasers simply cannot afford to chase because of how long it takes. It's even worst now that survivors get MFT.