What's the correct order of doing things?

I believe the general consensus of the community is SWF>Killer>Solo Survivor. Should the devs bring solo survivors up to SWF level and then Killers or the other way around? 

Comments

  • Link:Public Poll: All seeing VS Blindness

    The community seems to be split on bumping up Solo's to SWF's because this would require giving solo's the same free communication tools SWF's receive through the virtue of being SWF. (Perks like bond, aftercare etc).

    Many believe it to be un fun and want a more horror-esque-feel to the Solo gameplay, but that introduces even more issues due to SWF's playing under the same rules.

    EDIT:
    We could however solve the (sometimes bad) Solo experience through solving the Death-Efficiency problem. (Making players less dependent on their teammates for their win).

  • Communication is what makes SWF better than solo. There is no way to nerf SWF in that area, and any buffs to solo outside that area will just buff SWF even more, furthering the divide. The right way to do it, if you want a balanced game and don't want to change the way the game works, is to buff solo to the level of SWF by giving them coordination tools.
    Alternatively, I suggested a way to rework trials so that solo Survivors will become much better by essentially taking away much of the advantage inherently present in communication. You can see it here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/36024/a-complete-overhaul-to-trials-could-solve-most-of-the-games-problems

  • Just being in a SWF isn't enough to go on. How many? 2, 3, 4? How skilled are they? Are there two good players and two newbies? How good is the killer? What killer is it? What perks are they all carrying? Add ons? Offerings? Maps? How's the RNG? 

    Stop acting like SWF is one monolithic thing.
  • Killer vs solo should be the way as any other removes the feel of playing dumbing down the game as we know what is happening all the time.

    Imo SWF needs to be brought into line with the above and they should hinder them to remove what comms gives them depending on how many are in the group, yes some aren't as good but they need to learn and adapt to get better which will come over time.
  • @brokedownpalace I was using generic terms to simplify the state of balance. What's your point here? Are you trying to dispute that the game is unbalanced? Are you trying to find what I meant when I said SWF? 
  • Orion said:

    Communication is what makes SWF better than solo. There is no way to nerf SWF in that area, and any buffs to solo outside that area will just buff SWF even more, furthering the divide. The right way to do it, if you want a balanced game and don't want to change the way the game works, is to buff solo to the level of SWF by giving them coordination tools.
    Alternatively, I suggested a way to rework trials so that solo Survivors will become much better by essentially taking away much of the advantage inherently present in communication. You can see it here: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/36024/a-complete-overhaul-to-trials-could-solve-most-of-the-games-problems

    I read ur idea and I like that for 2 reasons: balance and variation (let's be honest, playing survivor is getting boring after while)
    One thing I want to add: kindred basekit. Helps solos a lot while swf doesn't really benefit from that (already known information)
  • @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    I read ur idea and I like that for 2 reasons: balance and variation (let's be honest, playing survivor is getting boring after while)
    One thing I want to add: kindred basekit. Helps solos a lot while swf doesn't really benefit from that (already known information)

    I feel that's a discussion for another thread. My suggestion is more about making Survivors less reliant on their teammates, in the true spirit of what DbD was intended to be ("Work together... or not").

  • Orion said:

    @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    I read ur idea and I like that for 2 reasons: balance and variation (let's be honest, playing survivor is getting boring after while)
    One thing I want to add: kindred basekit. Helps solos a lot while swf doesn't really benefit from that (already known information)

    I feel that's a discussion for another thread. My suggestion is more about making Survivors less reliant on their teammates, in the true spirit of what DbD was intended to be ("Work together... or not").

    The "work together... or not" sentence was really attractive for me back in the days... Sadly, u can get banned if u "sandbag" a random mate so u can escape aka just beeing selfish.
    But yeah, I overall agree with ur idea. Let's see if the devs will even respond to that 
  • Nerfing SWF will leave a bad impression on SWF teams. They will think that just because they are playing the game with their friends, they are getting punished.
    Buffing solo survivors to SWF level without making SWF stronger is the only way but it is damn difficult. Most of solo survivor buffs will benefit SWF teams as well.
    Balancing around SWF will be difficult as well. Most SWF teams are not that good at all. They have their own weaknesses like alturism.
    The only way to bring the game to SWF level and balance around them is introducing in game voice chat for everybody. In that way, they can monitor the game and start to buff killers to match survivors. Personally, I don't see any other way around this.
    Stating that, even at this state, I don't have any problems with SWF. It is a bit more challenging but you can get end game hooks and kills since they don't want to leave anybody behind. It is not that problematic imo.

  • @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    The "work together... or not" sentence was really attractive for me back in the days... Sadly, u can get banned if u "sandbag" a random mate so u can escape aka just beeing selfish.
    But yeah, I overall agree with ur idea. Let's see if the devs will even respond to that 

    You can get banned if you constantly sandbag the same person to harass them or to work together with the Killer. You cannot get banned if you give someone up to save your ass. At least, as far as I know.
    If we show overwhelming support for the idea, they might respond, but it's Christmas now, so...

  • Orion said:

    @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    The "work together... or not" sentence was really attractive for me back in the days... Sadly, u can get banned if u "sandbag" a random mate so u can escape aka just beeing selfish.
    But yeah, I overall agree with ur idea. Let's see if the devs will even respond to that 

    You can get banned if you constantly sandbag the same person to harass them or to work together with the Killer. You cannot get banned if you give someone up to save your ass. At least, as far as I know.
    If we show overwhelming support for the idea, they might respond, but it's Christmas now, so...

    Yeah that's true, when are they back again?
  • @DwightsLifeMatters said:
    Yeah that's true, when are they back again?

    I've no idea. I can't see the future.

  • @KingB said:
    I believe the general consensus of the community is SWF>Killer>Solo Survivor. Should the devs bring solo survivors up to SWF level and then Killers or the other way around? 

    (This post ended up longer then i wanted, but ends with a reasonable solution)

    They Already have been bringing Solo up to SWF level. In fact, their insistance to do that, but try to put out killers that can't compete with SWF is a mindset problem for them.

    I don't understand why survivors are saying this kind of stuff.

    They nerfed BBQ and Chili twice over (you can hide in a locker, remember? Plus Distortion)

    They keep putting out second chance perks (Boil over, Break Down, DS, Deliverance)

    As well as perks and general updates that give you info a SWF would have. ( Music changes when the killer is in a chase, when the obs. is chased everyone knows, After Care, and so on, there's a lot more)

    I play a good amount of survivor, even though i main Killer. (To catch Prey, you learn about Prey) and I play in both SWF and Solo.

    I do hate Solo survivor sometimes, but it's because I can recognize the problem. My teammates tend to be unreliable down in the double digit ranks.

    No amount of patches and perks will make it so those people who can't manage anything longer then a 10-20 second chase, can manage longer chases. And if they do nerf the killer/ buff survivor that much, I will likely move on to another game.

    The game shouldn't pander to the lowest skilled players. it should help those lower skilled players get better.

    That's why i think they need to add something called "The Get Good Gym"

    it would be about 1/4 of a map, with a few jungle gyms and pallet loops thrown in there. You would load in a killer or survivor of your choice, and practice their mechanics.

    No bots, maybe a generator that only does skillchecks but never finishes.

    This would let the lower skill people practice. Tired of failing skillchecks? Go practice on the broken gen.

    Tired of being put down in 15 seconds?

    go to the Jungle Gym and learn how to loop it. Then learn how to go from that loop, to the next quickly.

    This would bring up the average skill level of survivors in the game. And you wouldn't get games where someone just got LeatherFace and spends the whole game practicing his chainsaw in a corner.

  • Allow in game chat for all survivors (like some other co-op games have) in the group.

    Balance the game around that.

    Those that desire the solo/horror experience can turn it off (HotS does this perfectly and should be the example).

  • KingB said:
    @brokedownpalace I was using generic terms to simplify the state of balance. What's your point here? Are you trying to dispute that the game is unbalanced? Are you trying to find what I meant when I said SWF? 
    You can't just say SWF is too strong. There are too many factors to consider. Are 4 skilled and communicative partners with meta load outs and the best items going to give most killers a hard time? Yes. But there's also 2-4 kids who only play together stoned and talk about memes the whole time. You can't just buff killers to SWF A-team level because solo survivors would get absolutely destroyed and it is not possible to ever make solo survivors as strong as SWF because then killers would get destroyed and SWF would get made even stronger.

    What they really should be doing is compensating killers and making it easier to pip/safety pip when against SWF.


  • I think survivors should be first and then killers should receive buffs accordingly to the changes made until it's balanced