The biggest problem with SWF
The game is balanced around survivors not having information or not being able to communicate. This becomes abundantly clear once you see how many perks simply give survivors information that SWF effectively get for free. I looked through all the survivor perks, and here are the ones that survivors get for free.
1 Point means 1 perk, some perks they get partial credit for due to them doing multiple effects. But here is the list:
- Boon: Circle of Healing (.5 points) [They know where each other is, so they get the effect of knowing where other survivors are and don't need a "go here" location to heal]
- Kindred (1 point) [They always know where everyone is and where the killer is]
- Windows of Opportunity (.5 points) [They communicate where pallets are at, but it isn't perfect so half a point]
- After care (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Inner Focus (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Bond (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Empathic Connection (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Empathy (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Open-Handed (.5 points) [They know where every survivor is at all times and know where the killer is anytime they are spotted by a single survivor, half a point]
- Wake up! (1 point) [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Alert (1 point) [When the killer is chasing a survior, all other survivors know where the killer is]
- Situational Awareness [They know where every survivor is at all times]
- Detective's Hunch (.5 points) [They can communicate out where each totem is, so they already have a much easier time finding totems, if 1 survivor spots it, they all know where it is]
- Counterforce (.25 points) [They can communicate out where totems are, they don't get the cleansing speed and the initial finding of all totems though, quarter point]
- Dark Sense (1 point) [They generally will almost always know where the killer is unless it is a stealth killer, in which case this perk wouldn't work on that killer anyway]
- Rookie spirit (.75 points) [Unless the killer kicks a gen out of sight of a survivor, which should be rare, they always know which gens are regressing]
- Deja Vu (1 point) [They easily know the location of every generator very quickly and can call it out to each other]
- Plunderer's Instinct (.5 points) [They easily know the location of every chest and can communicate it out, they don't get the rarer item though, half point]
- Small Game (.75 points) [They can easily communicate out where every totem is, and barring a really hard to find one, probably know where every totem is most of the time, 3 quarter points]
- Object of Obsession (1 point) [They generally always know where the killer is, they don't get the action speed buff, but they also don't have the killer seeing where they are as the downside, 1 point]
- Clairvoyance (.5 points) [Once seen, they already know where everything is and can communciate it out to each other]
- Visionary (1 point) [They already know where all the gens are once one survivor sees them]
This means in total they get 16.75 perks for free on each of them, meaning in total the team gets 67 perks for free. Normally they are allotted 16. Additionally, there are many abilities that SWF gain that even perks can't tell you. They can communicate and coordinate body blocks, hook saves, adrenaline plays, the actual repair % of a gen, as well as what kill it is as soon as one of them spots the killer.
Comments
It's not only position.
"My gen is at X%" + "They are coming over with no tr, they have tinkerer"
"I am in chase at main/killer shack/other recognizable landmark"
"I am so and so much recovered" (Substitute for buckle up btw)
"Totem is at X"
"Shack pallet (or any other significant pallet) is down"
"Killer has perk X because of tell Y" (Suddenly half the team knows the exact killer loadout. not only the survivor actively in chase or getting ambushed)
And so on. And half of this stuff isn't exclusive to tryhards but gets communicated subconsciously by even the most casual round that isn't actively talking about fashion, the weather or other stuff.
Disclaimer: And this is acceptable in any other genre but the asymmetrical one since here only one side can opt for this advantage.
I only ever play in a swf. Usually duo, sometimes trio. We have a combined total of 2900 hours as a duo, me with 1300 hours and my friend with 1600 hours. We frequently get killers who aren't very good at the game and have less than 500 hours. Our solo queue teammates usually have less than 100 hours.
The two of us play equally well without comms because we're good at the game. We know gen locations intuitively, on some maps we know where totems can spawn, we know that the killer can only chase one survivor at a time, we know how to avoid a 3-gen, we know to 99 the gates, we also know not to put all your eggs in one basket.
There's a lot of gameplay knowledge where we just don't need to communicate certain things, and we benefit from both having started out as killer mains. Knowing in advance what perks the killer has is nice, but very seldom is it game-changing. Knowing the killer's in chase at a specific location just means avoid that location, which you'd probably do anyway if you got close enough to hear a terror radius. Again, not game changing.
We can't communicate which gate is which, so we usually just 99 both. Knowing shack pallet is down isn't a game-changer either. So really the only thing we coordinate is who's getting an unhook.
You can't tell the killers who is a SWF in the lobby, that'll ruin it for casual SWFs just trying to have fun cause they'll get dodged all the time! You know, the ones that love to run the killer into multiple Head On stuns, do full Boil Over/Sabo builds and run RPD offerings, and the ones that run the killer by double lockers and get in the locker so they can get flashlight saves everytime. We're just having a fun time with our friends, bro!
True. Plus, killer in low mmr is more powerful than survivor and casual swfs, since they got the buffs that were made to even the playing field on high mmr, while low mmr survivors inherited the nerfs directed at high tier swfs.
Assuming every SWF plays as if their lives depend on the game. When I used to play with my friends we laughed at people dying too fast to the killer. Not all SWF are sweaty like that, its a minority but its true.
When you get into stealth killers and whatnot, it becomes a map issue more than a communication issue. Ghostface actually has a high win rate in comp, but he's always played on Lerys. I'd never play Ghostface on Autohaven if given the choice, solo or SWF. But that's a lobby rework discussion. Totally different can of worms.
But that s why dbd is balanced around playing against swf.
Thats why killer got a massive buff at patch 6.1.0 and surv only got nerfs and 5 sec bt
Thats why you have longer gen and shorter chases.
Thats why killers have new strong perks (like blowing a gen from the other side of the map because you hooked someone) while surv receive weak situational perks that barely work outside a combo
Thats why 60-70% of the surv perk list are garbage.
You are outraged about information getting leaked to other in swf in a game that clearly gives the killer more than enough advantage to balance this.
It was a good attempt, but it's still not good enough.
Average SWF premades with VOIP are still gonna escape with three survivors in most cases, even if the killer proceeds to hardcore tunneling and even camping.
You have literally no clue, how much of an impact the provided informations that those SWF premades do receive from each other can have on the match.. Or you're just pretending and using sarcasm in cases when people do disagree with you.
One silly information, like knowing how much one survivor is revived, where there's still one pallet, how much is one outta seven generators progressed, the way RNG has spawned windows and pallets.. All of those can change the direction and result of the entire match. One silly pallet can be a decisive factor between sacrificing two or just one, and that's a big difference.
Show me a SWF group that coordinates on discord that uses a single perk that gives information.
Where does it state that the game is balanced around survivors not having information? Aside from forum opinions being used as a source.
It isn’t 2016 anymore. You have an array of information perks yourself where it has pretty much nullified stealth/immersion which was also a big part of the game.
I just can’t agree with that statement anymore considering that killers have wallhacks galore meanwhile still complain about comms.
That is very true. You don't need to be a sweat squad to be extremely powerful. People underestimate how powerful a few simple statements can be:
It soft caps at 1700, that was changed from 1900. And the devs have stated on many occasions that it's a very small percentage of the playerbase at the caps. You don't gain a set amount of MMR for every win, assuming you gain any at all. If reaching the cap was trivial, more than 1% of the playerbase would be above 1900
The reality is that information perks are just not very useful in dbd, regardless you are in swf or solo. I dont say that you cant use them, but generally they dont give you a noticeable advantage.
Take a look at your original list, look at perks like Wake up, Deja vu, Visionary, rookie spirit, Inner Focus. I havent seen them in months.
Aside from coh and to a lesser extent kindred and bond, all those perks are not used even in soloQ.
Plus consider that your regular surv loadout uses:
One exhaustion perk
One anti-tunnel perk, like OTR or BT
Prove thyself
Random perk
So any information perk is fighting for the last slot, against perks like Circle of Healing or Build to Last, Vigil. I am not surprised anyone at all uses information perks
-"Swfs are not already on sweat mode. A lot of us are just having some fun with friends."
Since playing with your friends is what really matters just accept the : no character/perk/item repeat if playing in a SWF.
That way SWF can't be a bully squad and you cannot stack multiple copies of a perk. With the new UI that I suggest that shows which perks everyone is using it won't even take you long to plan out builds in real time.
Voice coms give an advantage. That advantage translates to a 15% escape rate over solo queue players.
Something must change so that the advantage goes to a very small percentage - then nobody will care.
I'm on console, and play exclusively in a swf duo/trio (duo 95% of the time). We share basic information but don't have a callouts system to coordinate locations.
My build: Medkit, Off the Record, Windows of Opportunity, Situational Awareness and Built to Last.
My friend's build: Toolbox, Off the Record, Built to Last, Botany Knowledge, Self-Care.
We have a combined total of around 2900 hours, and comms are mainly used to coordinate unhooks, and complain about tunneling.
Counter-offer: No character/perk/item repeat on 4-man swf. Not all swfs are a problem and the ones that are use a very precise callout system they've established before the match so that everyone knows what the callouts mean.
right.... his best map. i think your missing my point. I am saying that weaker killers are unlikely to be effective against strong teams. Like not to use otz's tier-list as like certified list but let's just say clown, freddy and legion. your argument is like saying that killers can only play on like 10% of the maps that are a bit more killer-favored. Like I recon that clown might do a better on lery than say rotten fields or badham.
Great argument /s
If it didn't come 6 years too late.
The game was never balanced for swf. Always for some spongy middle ground between killer/swf/solo and it still hangs in that gray triangular area, now just a little further away from the solo corner.
Also, if the game was aiming at a balance between killer and swf then solo would've been buffed with means that don't give swf an additional advantage.
The only thing that happens all the time is that bhvr blindly buffs and nerfs around the group that they notice at any given moment only for the rest to break and then they try to fix their amateur changes.
You know the game has big problem when SWF comp team is far superior then any killer. Either make some of addons base kit, reduce number of pallets, idk do something, the game is really unbalanced. If you face weak team as killer you win, if you face good team, you lose. It shouldn't be like that, both survivors and killers should have same chance of winning the match, but that is not the case, that's why in comp matches its face camping 24/7 to secure 1 kill, and usually ends on 1.
Because dbd is, at it's core, casual. It doesn't have top-down balancing, which means that things like a comp swf requires using something equally busted like Nurse or Blight with their strongest add-ons and perk combos.