Re: Allowing Legion to down Injured Survivors who aren't suffering Deep Wounds
Reposting of my suggestion that I'd put in 2.4.0 PTB Feedback (link) as it seems there isn't much activity in that forum compared to here.
The reason I'm reposting this here is so that more people can see the post and give feedback, and potentially have the devs implement the idea.
@Judgement said:
I came up with this idea when I saw a post in General Discussions about how Survivors can just easily Mend themselves literally mid-chase with no consequence whatsoever as being Frenzy stabbed while already suffering Deep Wounds reduces the timer but does not reset the Mend progression.
So I had an idea as to how this could be changed;
If Survivor is Healthy - Hit by Feral Frenzy makes Survivor become Injured and afflicts Deep Wounds.
If Survivor is Injured, and suffering Deep Wounds - Hit by Feral Frenzy reduces the bleed-out timer and resets Mend progression. Only downs Survivor if a hit would deplete the bleed-out timer. The Legion's Feral Frenzy ends.
If Survivor is injured, and NOT suffering Deep Wounds - Hit by Feral Frenzy downs Survivor. The Legion's Feral Frenzy ends.
Realistically if you were already badly wounded (ie Injured State) in real life then got stabbed by someone in a way that caused internal injuries (Feral Frenzy's definition of Deep Wounds), you'd drop like a fly and start bleeding out faster than you were before.
Currently there is no reason to heal to Healthy after being hit by The Legion because they can't down Survivors with their ability. Being Healthy or Injured are one and the same vs The Legion because you'll stay Injured when you already are, and go to Injured when Healthy. A Survivor with the Broken status effect (either by No Mither or Deliverance) is just the same as a Survivor without it to The Legion.
So if this change were to be implemented, it would be a massive well-needed boost to The Legion and make them far more than just a mild inconvenience. It would give reason to heal to Healthy and not stay in Injured.
What do you think?
Comments
The main problem is that currently against The Legion, being Injured is literally no different to being Healthy because they have no ability to down you and they're much more susceptible to looping because they move at 110% instead of 115%.
Whether you're healthy or injured, when the Legion uses Feral Frenzy and lands a hit, nothing happens. It's no more than a minor inconvenience and there's no point in healing to full because it doesn't make a difference.
Rather if an Injured Survivor who does not have Deep Wounds can be downed by Feral Frenzy, it would force Survivors to stay together to heal (which lets The Legion shine as they're best vs groups), or take Self-Care.
Being stabbed by Feral Frenzy while Deeply Wounded won't down Survivors - only being stabbed while injured will down.
With your comment though, keep in mind that the Hillbilly when using his chainsaw moves at 230% and can instantly break pallets, and instantly down Survivors. If he's lucky, he can do both of the instant actions at once by breaking a pallet that a Survivor is vaulting over.
With this idea I have for The Legion, they can still down Survivors using their power, but the Survivor needs to Mend themselves and stay injured to get downed - this can be completely avoided if Survivors heal to full like they should vs any Killer.
I mean yeah legion is weak due to his speed, but to say survivors dont heal is a problem...they're basically playing with the exposed effect all game. If a killer can force survivors to stay injured it's hardly a bad thing
Except Legion isn't forcing Survivors to stay injured - Legion's that weak that there is no point in healing when vsing them because no matter whether you're healthy or not, Feral Frenzy will put you into Injured State and apply Deep Wounds, it will never down a Survivor unless their DW bar is low enough that getting shanked again will put them down.
That means that The Legion is one of the most susceptible Killers to genrush - because there's no point in healing because it doesn't make any difference, Survivors won't spend time off generators to heal themselves or each other.
Like I said in my original post, why wouldn't suffering deep internal injuries while already badly wounded drop someone?
Lets not start questioning the realism of the game lol
The Legion is mostly fine. The changes need to be centered around the Deep Wound mechanic itself.
Tell me, what are the Legion's weak points?
Survivors can easily heal Deep Wounds and the progress bar isn’t depleted when they’re struck again or when the action is cancelled. They should do what their original idea for Self-Care was do mending must be 100% in one go without stopping.
The bleedout bar doesn’t deplete when in a chase or mending. It should go down at least half-speed during chases, right?
That and The Legion move at 110%, which makes them susceptible to looping. According to others in the forums, 110% makes Killers have to take four times longer to catch Survivors, IIRC.
That about right?
Note that apart from the movement speed, every other problem boils down to the Deep Wound mechanic. 110% would be a perfectly acceptable movement speed if the Deep Wound mechanic were actually dangerous to Survivors. The Huntress also moves at 110%, but her hatchets are actually dangerous (when used properly). Deep Wound is just non-threatening to the Survivors, if not actively harmful to the Legion, and therein lies the problem.
I haven't done the math on how much longer it'd take a 110% Killer to catch a Survivor relative to a 115% Killer, so I won't comment.
Agreed on all your points about Deep Wounds. Nice use of the Huntress as an example.
You're right, Deep Wounds really is non-threatening. The fact that Legion can whack every Survivor in a few seconds doesn't matter if the Survivors aren't endangered because of it - they aren't endangered by the status, nor are they endangered by a 110% Killer.
Taking into consideration that Deep Wounds is the new status effect that applies to Borrowed Time, that just proves your point even further. A massive buff to Borrowed Time as it can be recovered from without Self-Care or someone else helping. That could be changed by preventing Survivors from being able to Mend themselves, like I said in my original post, to force Survivors to heal each other which would work in The Legion's favour.
But if BHVR go that route, wherein they force Survivors to heal each other to recover from Deep Wounds, they would have to balance it out a bit by removing the reveal notification when a Survivor drops because of it.
Now that Darkness Among Us has released to the live build, I thought it suitable to bring this thread back as there are much more discussions now regarding The Legion's weakness and how to buff them.
I still believe this may be one of the best ways to make Legion much stronger and actually a force to be reckoned with.
I had the same idea!!! It would slow down the game better than the pig ever could
Reading this...I"ll just say it sounds fairly ridiculous to consider. Just today I hit a survivor, and then hit two more almost towards the beginning of the match because they were within my terror radius. There really isn't any counter play to this, besides not being any where near each other I guess. You'll activate hit someone, and see the glowing red ball, run at it and down them. They'd have a slim chance of escaping.
Edit: Just noticed it says on an injured survivor. Still just as op and ridiculous imo just changes it up a bit. lol