Question for those who have played The Legion for some considerable time on the PTB

Dwight_Fairfield

Where would you rank The Legion among the other killers? I'm seeing so many varied opinions on here and on streams.

The_Crusader

AChaoticKiller said:

RSB said:

@The_Crusader said:
Wolf74 said:

@AChaoticKiller said:

@The_Crusader exactly, I also see people hiting a survivor twice with his power after the first hit which is something you should not do. What you need to do is cancel the power and deal with the stun otherwise you have to deal with giving them a sprint burst after the hit then suffer two stuns, the weapon wipe and the frenzy stun. I still think that deep wounds affect should be looked at as its very underwhelming.

But with only one hit the bleed out timer is so huge that the survivor won't get downed anyway, because he has to much time to "mend" himself.

But that mend takes time, and if they decide to heal up after that takes even longer.

I get that people feel deep wound is underwhelming but imagine for a second if it was easy to get them to bleed out to dying status. With how quick this guy can dash around and hit everyone, he'd be hands down the best slugger in the game.

That's why the timer is huge.

The devs don't want a load of slugging ahain either so I think he's like pig. Their powers aren't meant to kill/down, just to get survivors wasting time or walking around injured.

There is potential in him. When used well I've seen some games slow right down as so much time is spent healing. Sure he cant hook as fast as other killers but it balances out if he keeps survivors off gens long enough.

So their power is meant to "waste survivors' time", okay. What's the point in wasting their time, when you can't down them, because you move at 110% MS?

You hit everyone near you and on your last target after you apply deal wounds you get close to them and cancel it so you don't give them a speed boost and so you don't suffer two stuns. You don't lose that much distance try it yourself.

Exactly. God forbid people try to figure it out, rather than "why cant my M2 down people" which js exsctly why they cried about Clown.

I don't get why people are so shocked that hes meant to waste time when anti-heal has been the meta since the last mid-chapter patch. He's basically just that.

Find 4 survivors and give them all a slap at once. Now they're all off gens mending. If they choose to heal after that takes a lot of time with sloppy, and it wastes a lot of time throughout the game because this guy can land hits on you better than even the Nurse. He can do it over and over and over again without a penalty to himself.

If they don't heal to save time - well now they're always 1 hit from death. So he may be 110% speed but all it takes is one laggy pallet/window to get them down and we all know how BS pallet hits can be as a survivor.

I don't understand why people don't get this. Since the last update almost every killer out there has been taking sloppy and just whacking every survivor they see to get them spending tkme healing and off gens. Some even taking thanatophobia too.

This guy is basically just that. He's the anti-heal meta personified and again he's better at it than the Nurse.

Now I'm not saying he's perfect. From what I've seen he relies far too much on finding survivors together.but i think people are failing to understand him or just want a broken killer because some of the suggestions floating around have been ridiculous. I.e. bleed out time still goes down on chases, or e can down in 2 hits in frenzy mode.

Wolf74

@The_Crusader said:

I don't get why people are so shocked that hes meant to waste time when anti-heal has been the meta since the last mid-chapter patch. He's basically just that.

Please tell me, what is the "anti-heal-meta"?
Is that using Sloppy Butcher?
People talk about this all of a sudden, but I never seen that.
And actually I think it is an urban legend.

Swiftblade131

Has potential. Not sure what buffs if any he could use currently, more playing to find that out.

But I put him right below Clown, and I place Clown dead center mid, since I believe he is one of the most well balanced and well rounded characters. (Pun intended)

Nothing super detrimental, nothing super special. I see them both very "Jack of all trades, but master of none" types

The_Crusader

Wolf74 said:

@The_Crusader said:

I don't get why people are so shocked that hes meant to waste time when anti-heal has been the meta since the last mid-chapter patch. He's basically just that.

Please tell me, what is the "anti-heal-meta"?
Is that using Sloppy Butcher?
People talk about this all of a sudden, but I never seen that.
And actually I think it is an urban legend.

Its mentioned a lot everywhere. People just trying to get survivors to spend more time healing and less time on gens.

Tell me then, how would YOU fix this killer? What changes would you make?

AChaoticKiller

RSB said:

@AChaoticKiller said:
RSB said:

@AChaoticKiller said:

RSB said:

@The_Crusader said:

Wolf74 said:

@AChaoticKiller said: @The_Crusader exactly, I also see people hiting a survivor twice with his power after the first hit which is something you should not do. What you need to do is cancel the power and deal with the stun otherwise you have to deal with giving them a sprint burst after the hit then suffer two stuns, the weapon wipe and the frenzy stun. I still think that deep wounds affect should be looked at as its very underwhelming. But with only one hit the bleed out timer is so huge that the survivor won't get downed anyway, because he has to much time to "mend" himself. But that mend takes time, and if they decide to heal up after that takes even longer. I get that people feel deep wound is underwhelming but imagine for a second if it was easy to get them to bleed out to dying status. With how quick this guy can dash around and hit everyone, he'd be hands down the best slugger in the game. That's why the timer is huge. The devs don't want a load of slugging ahain either so I think he's like pig. Their powers aren't meant to kill/down, just to get survivors wasting time or walking around injured.

There is potential in him. When used well I've seen some games slow right down as so much time is spent healing. Sure he cant hook as fast as other killers but it balances out if he keeps survivors off gens long enough.



So their power is meant to "waste survivors' time", okay. What's the point in wasting their time, when you can't down them, because you move at 110% MS?

You hit everyone near you and on your last target after you apply deal wounds you get close to them and cancel it so you don't give them a speed boost and so you don't suffer two stuns. You don't lose that much distance try it yourself.

Yes, I hit everyone (max 2 people if I'm extremaly lucky, because no survivor with half of a brain will stick close to a Legion), I chase the first/second guy with my 110% MS, He tries to loop, I use Frenzy, he drops pallet, peekaboo, pal, I jump over the pallet with a kind smile on my face, then cancel the Frenzy...Ooh? What's that? A stun? The survivor is using my stun to run to the otherside ot the pallet? What now, master? What's my secret power as a Legion?

First why the f*** are you doing that? You need to break the pallet and use his power to get major distance if the survivor gets too far. If you want use frenzy the way you are you either need to use the ultra rare add-on that breaks pallets when you valt them (when it works) or use the two very rare add-ons that reduce the DW timer and that increase Damage to the DW timer, those add-ons make it so three hits with frenzy down people. I'm no master but I can use some common sense to get a grasp at his play style.

You say you can use common sense, right? So then use it, smartguy, and tell me who has specific purple addons everytime they want to play a specific killer? And tell me - how do we call a killer that is playable only when using the best addons?

The second thing - Frenzy should be used to catch upto the survivors? Tell that to the Claudette running around the corners in Lery's, and you do not see her scratchmarks plus after the end of the sprint you are stunned and the surv has more time to run/hide.

Third thing - he should be used to break the pallets? So... Why should I use him, when I can use Billy, who is 115%MS and has a lot better ability with sprint? Or even the Spirit?

PS. Don't be so angry when you are not right.

I was talking about your style of play not use these anytime you want to play him. Also if you can't find a survivor after a two second stun that's on you and maby you should not play a killer that has to track survivors without scratch marks at times, use blood and grunts of pain to track, you can track by blood right? That two second stun is not enough time to hide or get away so even without scratch marks its every easy to find them when they are just a few seconds from you. Lastly no sh*t you should play billy instead of him he's a better killer overall. If you don't want to play a killer who is obviously mid tier and requires a different style of play then by all means go play billy.

Wolf74

@The_Crusader said:
Wolf74 said:

@The_Crusader said:

I don't get why people are so shocked that hes meant to waste time when anti-heal has been the meta since the last mid-chapter patch. He's basically just that.

Please tell me, what is the "anti-heal-meta"?

Is that using Sloppy Butcher?

People talk about this all of a sudden, but I never seen that.

And actually I think it is an urban legend.

Its mentioned a lot everywhere. People just trying to get survivors to spend more time healing and less time on gens.

Tell me then, how would YOU fix this killer? What changes would you make?

Spending more time healing is actually "giving them time to heal".
And you have not explained that "anti-heal-meta" should actually be.

Changes? From the top of my head without any real hard thinking:
1. Mending IS healing (affected by NC, Sloppy, Caulthro, etc)
2. BT is NOT "deep wounds"
3. Bleedout times should not stop completely while chased, just get slowed down
4. Bleedout timer should not stop while mending
5. Legions speed increased to 112.5 % (maybe even to 115%)
6. Insta down abilities (MYC, Noed, etc) should work while in Frenzy, or at least draw double the amount from the bleedout bar.

The_Crusader

Wolf74 said:

@The_Crusader said:
Wolf74 said:

@The_Crusader said:

I don't get why people are so shocked that hes meant to waste time when anti-heal has been the meta since the last mid-chapter patch. He's basically just that.

Please tell me, what is the "anti-heal-meta"?

Is that using Sloppy Butcher?

People talk about this all of a sudden, but I never seen that.

And actually I think it is an urban legend.

Its mentioned a lot everywhere. People just trying to get survivors to spend more time healing and less time on gens.

Tell me then, how would YOU fix this killer? What changes would you make?

Spending more time healing is actually "giving them time to heal".
And you have not explained that "anti-heal-meta" should actually be.

Changes? From the top of my head without any real hard thinking:
1. Mending IS healing (affected by NC, Sloppy, Caulthro, etc)
2. BT is NOT "deep wounds"
3. Bleedout times should not stop completely while chased, just get slowed down
4. Bleedout timer should not stop while mending
5. Legions speed increased to 112.5 % (maybe even to 115%)
6. Insta down abilities (MYC, Noed, etc) should work while in Frenzy, or at least draw double the amount from the bleedout bar.

Instadown working with Frenzy....do you realize how insane that would be? Vaulting over a pallet and instadown? Even doing double damage on the bar would make him pretty damn strong.

Bleedout time would be unfair too. The guy is meant to be spreading the damage around. Thats why he gets handicapped by chasing one survivor with the bleedout time stopping. Also it would be unfair on the survivor as no matter how good they are, once Legion got that first unavoidable hit they'd be doomed to go down eventually no matter how well they evade.

Bleedout time not stopping while mending would make him insanely OP. People nees to get to a safe distance from him to mend. They might not be able to mend in time if the progress didn't stop, and so he'd be able to just slug so many people with so little effort.

I think people need to be realistic with expectations. So many suggested buffs for him are just completely unrealistic and would make him far too strong. Its like people want a killer who can just destroy everyone no questions asked.


Go watch Dowsey on twitch. He seems to have Legion nailed at this point and it really showcases how he's meant to be played.

1) Find survivor/survivors

2) Activate Frenzy - hit survivor - your frenzy bar is now refilled

3) Look around, do you see any glowing red auras around? - if yes, charge to them

4) Hit new survivor, look around again for more survivor auras

5) Repeat step 4 until you can't see anymore auras near you

6) Since there are no more survivors nearby, uze your frenzy speed boost to catch up to the last survivor you hit, bodyblock them if need be

7) This is really important, don't hit them with frenzy, press M2 and cancel the frenzy. You'll take a short stun but you should be near enough the survivor. If you hit them you get a cooldown, a stun and they get a speed boost.

8) Now you should be close enough that it's just a short walk for you to down them with M1.


Legion does feel weak because he's not downing survivors. However there is no question after playing him and seeing him in action that he slows the gens down A LOT. Survivors spend so much time mending and healing. If they don't heal or use no mither then use your frenzy to get close, then cancel it manually and M1 them. 1 hit instadown.

He's definitely FAR above Freddy. Freddy can't slow the game down anywhere near as efficiently as Legion.

Dwight_Fairfield

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oy7ZmFrsIE

Monto's new video really does show how weak this new killer seems to be.

MhhBurgers

Getting mended by others would make this killer ridiculously OP for non-SWF players and you know it.

The_Crusader

Dwight_Fairfield said:

Monto's new video really does show how weak this new killer seems to be.

Guy didn't look like an expert. Hell nobody is as the killer only just came out. Meanwhile monto has loads of experience as survivor.

I've gone back into the game armed with new knowledge and I did great. I mean it does depend on luck of having survivors near each other but there are always moments where at least 2 are in proximity.

I used his frenzy to quickly get across the map. All 4 were in the area, stabbed two with deep wound, cancelled frenzy, downed one, managed to down another, hook that one, one guy comes for heal, other unhooks, deep wound him and the unhooked guy, last one gets picked up, deep wound and commit to chase.

So now I've got all 4 survivors injured and inflicted with deep wound about 1-2 mins jnto the game. Shame I didn't have thanatophobia.

The pressure he puts on survivors is immense. Top tier in fact.

He's weaker at chases not going to deny that but that's to balance out how much he can pressure survivors.

Lets be honest they aren't going to release another Nurse level killer again. Shes too strong.

I like that they tried something different with this guy. I think Legion will be too niche for most players though. You're not meant to play him lile a normal killer.

MhhBurgers

The thing is tho his power currently works because survivors don't know how to deal with it, there's a simple counter:

Don't try to stealth him, run away as soon as somebody gets hit and you're within his TR.

The easiest games as legions will be the ones where survivors will try to play immersed even when somebody else got hit with frenzy.

Carpemortum

purebalance said:

@Carpemortum said:
Lol not even 12 hours and people think he can be ranked appropriately XD. Hes going to have tweaks, and hes going to require REAL play time to get used to him. Bring this topic up in a week, maybe.

LOL Spirit went live without changing what needed to be changed. You're worse than the people thinking lore is going to change due to ptrs on WoW. His overall mechanics are not changing. He can easily be ranked after 12 hours of play.

Went live and almost immediately had changes to her power. Coincidental?