Gen speed isn't the problem
Lets be real, if they reduced gen speed, the survivor will have to hold M1 on gens for so long that their hands might hurt, it's boring. The real problem is the map and tiles design. Loops where a good survivor can loop the killer for a really long time while others just do gens. The killer is always out of time in dbd, those jungle gyms into TLs into shack is a big time waste. Add Dead Hard to the equation and the chase time increases even further! Also, really long loops with zero mind game should not exist, the killer has no choice but to go merry go round with the survivor like a bot, get stunned and break the pallet. Oh yeah and ofcourse, god pallets lol. So the problem isn't gen speed imo, it's map design which is balanced around 10 hour survivors, but good survivors can use it to waste a lot of the killer's precious time while the gens fly.
Comments
So you are saying that killers should be able to down any good survivor within 20-30 seconds.
Essentially asking the game balanced around 4 SWF with assumed perfect survivor players
So are you suggesting they should reduce gen speed instead?
Increase gen speed, but add other objective for survivors, like collect a gen part before they can repair it.
Survivors are so boring in this game, only thing to do repair gens.
Agreed, any longer gen speed and not only would it make survivor gameplay rhat much more tedious, but it would make endgame much more killer sided. Getting caught in a 3-gen would be virtually unwinnable.
Additional, meaningful, objectives is the solution, mainly to stretch out the early game and delay the first gen completion.
Gen speed is objecrively easier to tweak than map design. Thats why its often mentioned in the "gen speed related to map size"-discussion.
They could also make gens more prone to survivor misplay, making repairing harder/more engaging for survs. Locking camera to ~100 degree facing the gen, minigames instead of skillchecks etc could maybe help too.
I really think they should just add more gen speed on the beginning of the match. 100 seconds a gen, lets say.
First gen done, reduces to 80 per. Then reduces to 60 at 1 gen left.
Same amount of time, but the early game is far less punishing.
Sounds to me like they're suggesting to leave gen speeds and loops as they are.
You say "loops where a good survivor can..." - does this mean the game should be balanced against "good survivors" only? What about anyone who wants to start playing the game? - Or who plays only occasionally? If the skill floor is raised even further there's no chance for anyone to successfully play catch up and reach that skill floor. (And with player retention appearing to be pretty low as is that's the last thing devs should go for, right?)
The thing is, imo, that there is a mis-match between survivor and killer skill floor; in theory the survivor skill floor is covered with the tutorial but in practise you kinda have to have all maps, tiles, killers and their add-ons (as well as a handful of popular and/or very impactful perks) memorised and need to be able to translate that knowledge into action. This takes a long time and in the process you get mostly stomped; few peoploe stick that kind of experience out. - But everyone will make it there eventually. Some need 500 hours, some 1000, 1500 or 2000 or whatever. But it will happen eventually. And here comes "Schrödingers killer skill floor" into play: if survivors are below their skill floor, the killer skill floor is pretty low as well. If survivors are above their skill floor, the killer skill floor is insanely high (and for some killers * cough * M1 * cough * probably impossible to reach because they have no ability to shut down/bypass e.g. loops or distance).
And yes, map design and loops do play a role in this and there are probably things that should be redesigned. - But they should never be redesigned primarily around "good survivors" or "effectively M1 killers" (nor "baby survivors" or "nurse/blight with add ons").
That being said: The more I read about these kinds of discussions the more I like two ideas a) Not having gens as the only survivor objective. Diversify. Unpopular opinion: as annoying as it is, I kinda like Pinhead's box. But it's the chains and teleport that's annoying, not the box-hunt itself. b) Take a look at existing killers and make sure every killer has the potential to shut down / bypass loops to at least some extent with tactics and strategies that reflect experience (and skill). I guess originally that's what bloodlust was for... but maybe it's time to replace that mechanic with something that can be used proactively.
Nah more likely to make all structires able to mindgame.
I'd rather wish they'd patch out the stupid red stain killers have
Idk the argument that the game "Shouldn't be balanced around good players because what does that leave new players"?
Bro, have you PLAYED solo queue? It literally wouldn't be a downgrade from how new players play now.
Gen Speeds aren't the problem and tiles aren't necessarily the problem either. The problem is the lack of a meaningful secondary objective to slow the game down and allow the killer to build up pressure.
The RNG for tiles could be tweaked a bit so as to prevent spawns like Shack to LT wall to jungle gym to safe pallet. Maps need to be smaller, but not so small that a win for Survivors is impossible.