Chest perks problems

I like to use ace in the hole to get a good item... since i get a little gift for escaping the trial. But, by using a chest perk, i see two problems: people who plunder chests without chests related perks... and very few chests. I think those two problems are tied together, maybe making more chests base kit could be a good quality of life change. I would also like ace in the hole (and plunderer's instinct) to have an AOE so a teammate doesn't waste a chest by opening it.

Tagged: BHVR

Comments

  • Whilst making more chests available in the trial would good from one point of view, you have to consider the items usuage as well in the game - even one more toolbox etc can be detrimental to the killer side.

  • @Mandy said:

    Whilst making more chests available in the trial would good from one point of view, you have to consider the items usuage as well in the game - even one more toolbox etc can be detrimental to the killer side.

    It could also be useful to killers. I was so greedy for one i accidentally let a demo too close to me. On another note, a lot of people ask for side objectives (especially killers). Since keys were nerfed it might also be less problematic to do. But thanks for the answer.

  • @Faulds said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700899#Comment_2700899

    It could also be useful to killers. I was so greedy for one i accidentally let a demo too close to me. On another note, a lot of people ask for side objectives (especially killers). Since keys were nerfed it might also be less problematic to do. But thanks for the answer.

    It's true, when I play killer I like it when coins are brought into the match from the survivor side, because I know there's at least one person going around scavenging...but in the interest of balance, we do have to consider the items that are found in chests and how those can affect the game as well.

  • This post actually got me curious, I wonder how often killers use Cut Coin to reduce the number of chests in a match? Sometimes I’ll use one for the heck of it, usually I stick with generic Bloodpoint offerings or hook distance reducers though. I made poll with this question just now, it’ll be interesting to see if I get responses either way.

  • @dugman said:

    This post actually got me curious, I wonder how often killers use Cut Coin to reduce the number of chests in a match? Sometimes I’ll use one for the heck of it, usually I stick with generic Bloodpoint offerings or hook distance reducers though. I made poll with this question just now, it’ll be interesting to see if I get responses either way.

    I never use one, I actively want survivors to be looking for chests if I can help it

  • @Mandy said:

    Whilst making more chests available in the trial would good from one point of view, you have to consider the items usuage as well in the game - even one more toolbox etc can be detrimental to the killer side.

    I honestly think the chest plundering perks should allow you to keep the items if you win or lose just because of how weak the chest plundering perks are. You generally have to run 2 chest plundering perks to get any use out of them. And, they waste a lot of time that could be used on repairing gens, so you are putting yourself at a handicap using them.

    Secondly, I think that Keys need to be removed. Right now, 1 out of every 4 chest searches ends in a useless key. And, survivors have 11 useless items in their blood web with keys and their addons. Could they please be removed.

  • @Mandy said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700920#Comment_2700920

    I never use one, I actively want survivors to be looking for chests if I can help it

    Yeah, it’s an interesting thought experiment how much benefit you get from opening a chest versus spending that time on gens. It takes 10 seconds to open a chest, so the benefit needs to be at least able to make up for that time to be worth it (plus the bit of time spent finding the chest in the first place). I’m pretty sure a good med kit or toolbox gives you back that much time so they could be worth the effort, it’s not quite as obvious for other items like maps and keys and flashlights. (Keys in particular at this point are super high risk, high reward items. They rarely pay off but when they do it’s a bonus 5000 point escape!)

    Also with Cut Coin in particular, having only one chest means that if survivors choose to look for the chest it might take them longer to find it, especially if they don’t have a chest aura perk. So not only do they get fewer potential items, but the item they do get takes even longer to find!

    This is one of those times I wish I had magical access to the game data from matches to actually see if there’s an escape rate variance between matches with Cut Coin and matches with Bloodpoint offerings. In a sense, for Cut Coin to pay off for the killer, you’d want a lower escape rate due to Cut Coin that earns you an extra kill sometimes to make up for the lost opportunity gain of not having a Bloodpoint offering.

  • @Munqaxus said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700899#Comment_2700899

    I honestly think the chest plundering perks should allow you to keep the items if you win or lose just because of how weak the chest plundering perks are. You generally have to run 2 chest plundering perks to get any use out of them. And, they waste a lot of time that could be used on repairing gens, so you are putting yourself at a handicap using them.

    Secondly, I think that Keys need to be removed. Right now, 1 out of every 4 chest searches ends in a useless key. And, survivors have 11 useless items in their blood web with keys and their addons. Could they please be removed.

    Keys don’t necessarily need to be removed, their reward is very high when they work (5000 point escape versus no points getting killed). It’s just that the probability of it working is correspondingly low.

  • @dugman said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700923#Comment_2700923

    Keys don’t necessarily need to be removed, their reward is very high when they work (5000 point escape versus no points getting killed). It’s just that the probability of it working is correspondingly low.

    Key's handicap your ability to escape. Every key you get is a toolbox, flashlight or medkit you didn't get

  • @Munqaxus said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700940#Comment_2700940

    Key's handicap your ability to escape. Every key you get is a toolbox, flashlight or medkit you didn't get

    Not exactly, they only handicap your ability to escape if you’re not the last remaining survivor at the end of the match. If you happen to be the last survivor though, then it can be an almost guaranteed escape if you can avoid the killer long enough for them to close the hatch. (They close it, head off toward the exits, and you open it back up and leave.)

  • @dugman said:

    This post actually got me curious, I wonder how often killers use Cut Coin to reduce the number of chests in a match? Sometimes I’ll use one for the heck of it, usually I stick with generic Bloodpoint offerings or hook distance reducers though. I made poll with this question just now, it’ll be interesting to see if I get responses either way.

    There are edge cases where cut coin could be nice if you're running a build centered on controlling chests rather than gens, but outside of that specific edge case there isn't much of a reason to ever put one on let alone buy it on a bloodweb. BP and map offerings are usually going to offer much better value long term.

  • @ReikoMori said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700920#Comment_2700920

    There are edge cases where cut coin could be nice if you're running a build centered on controlling chests rather than gens, but outside of that specific edge case there isn't much of a reason to ever put one on let alone buy it on a bloodweb. BP and map offerings are usually going to offer much better value long term.

    Actually, I run cut coins when I see no survivors running items. Usually one or two are running plunders instinct.

    But it all honesty, chest plundering builds are just way to weak to justify running them. They need buffed some how.

  • I wish Ace in the Hole gave you Ultra Rare items, that'd be cool.

    Let me get a Brand New Part from a chest kthx

  • Remove broken keys from chests. They are useless without add-ons

  • @dugman said:

    This post actually got me curious, I wonder how often killers use Cut Coin to reduce the number of chests in a match? Sometimes I’ll use one for the heck of it, usually I stick with generic Bloodpoint offerings or hook distance reducers though. I made poll with this question just now, it’ll be interesting to see if I get responses either way.

    The only time I ever consistently saw Cut Coins in play was during that glitch earlier this year that improved item loot tables (baseline Plunderers, I think), to try and prevent keys from showing up.

    Other than that, it's like the Shroud of Separation - ranges from useless to actively detrimental to the killer.

  • @Laluzi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700920#Comment_2700920

    The only time I ever consistently saw Cut Coins in play was during that glitch earlier this year that improved item loot tables (baseline Plunderers, I think), to try and prevent keys from showing up.

    Other than that, it's like the Shroud of Separation - ranges from useless to actively detrimental to the killer.

    I don’t think it’s ever actually detrimental to get rid of chests, not like the Shroud of Separation which literally starts the survivors in an optimal position of all four people potentially being of different generators.

  • @dugman said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2701179#Comment_2701179

    I don’t think it’s ever actually detrimental to get rid of chests, not like the Shroud of Separation which literally starts the survivors in an optimal position of all four people potentially being of different generators.

    Chests are generally a waste of time unless the survivor has a chest plundering perk. Many of the items that can be gotten are a net neutral on time or get less time back than they give. Keys are always bad, non-rainbow maps are bad, flashlights encourage survivors to waste time in and of themselves, and IIRC toolboxes below green don't break even with the time to open the chest. The only unambiguously good thing to find in a chest is a medkit. And even the impact of medkits is dampened in the era of CoH since everyone's self-healing anyway. Still good, just not as game-changing.

    It's not as bad as the Shroud of Separation, but having chests around tempts survivors to spend time off gens, and not usually in their favor since browns and yellows are by far the most common result unless Plunderers or Ace in the Hole is in pay.

  • @Laluzi said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2701184#Comment_2701184

    Chests are generally a waste of time unless the survivor has a chest plundering perk. Many of the items that can be gotten are a net neutral on time or get less time back than they give. Keys are always bad, non-rainbow maps are bad, flashlights encourage survivors to waste time in and of themselves, and IIRC toolboxes below green don't break even with the time to open the chest. The only unambiguously good thing to find in a chest is a medkit. And even the impact of medkits is dampened in the era of CoH since everyone's self-healing anyway. Still good, just not as game-changing.

    It's not as bad as the Shroud of Separation, but having chests around tempts survivors to spend time off gens, and not usually in their favor since browns and yellows are by far the most common result unless Plunderers or Ace in the Hole is in pay.

    Couple of minor notes

    • The odds of getting a toolbox or medkit are 1/3 each, other types are lower. So you have a 2/3 chance of getting a “useful type” of item from a chest
    • For toolboxes, the browns and yellows don’t quite give back the 10 second time it takes to open he chest, but that’s assuming no add-ons or other abilities. With add-ons they can be worth more than the 10 seconds (I think?)
    • Keys are “usually” useless. However, when they do work they’re basically a 5000 bloodpoint swing, so they’re very high risk with very high reward of they pay off. (I’m guessing keys pay off in something like 10% of matches or so? Basically they only work if you are the last survivor left and hide until the killer closes the hatch, then you go open it while they watch the doors. So I figure you normally escape 1/2 of the matches or so, and of the others you are the last alive in 1/4 matches, plus there’s a small chance in the rest the killer finds you before closing the hatch.)
    • I totally agree that flashlights and maps are bad
    • Finally note that the probability of a survivor having a chest related perk like Plunderer when they open a chest is actually higher than average because survivors with those perks have more incentive to open chests than survivors who don’t. So bringing a coin is somewhat directly aiming at survivors in the match having those perks and getting Green or better toolboxes or medkits from them, versus aimed at the other survivors who may just ignore the chests altogether.