For reports: does this count as working with the killer?
Because this came up in another thread and I'm curious.
Situation: A game played out normally; both teams were playing against each other and there were no friendly interactions. Now two survivors are dead and there's two survivors left. One survivor is doing objectives, and the other survivor is hiding. The killer would rather give hatch to the survivor that is doing gens (they were a stronger looper, they were more of a team player and the killer respects them more, other survivor was hiding all game, other survivor was BMing, they just don't respect hatch campers, etc), but they can't find the hiding survivor, who is no longer making any effort to progress the game - let's say 10+ minutes doing nothing. Through some manner of teamwork - splitting up to search, using survivor perks, downing the survivor and having them use the aura sight to ferret them out - the survivor leads the killer to their hiding teammate, the killer hooks them, and gives the helper survivor hatch.
Is it a bannable offense, or is it more of a grey area because it's taking action against another player who was "refusing to engage in normal gameplay"?
I'd never even thought of reporting this because it seemed relatively self-evident to me why it was happening - the only times I've seen this happen in game is when one survivor was a dedicated bush occupier or a sandbagger and the killer didn't want to give them a free pass on their behavior - and you'd get the same results if the killer just ignored their chosen survivor and searched around for the other indefinitely, which wouldn't count as teamwork. It's pretty much always initiated by the killer and it's for a reason that the survivor agrees with. But it is working with the killer, so... is choosing who you're willing to give mercy to actually against the rules?
Comments
Both survivors are bannable in that situation. As for the killer, I'd presume they are too but I'm not sure as it's much harder to ignore a survivor especially if they spam vault near the non progressing one.
Grey area, I think.
I will always go after the player hiding. Its pathetic and shouldn't be rewarded by just hiding and hoping for hatch etc. Its far to common this happens when they could of easily done a gen etc. If I see someone hiding I'm more likely to slug to find you, I dont bother slugging for the 4k but I'll slug to punish you. Play like a team player.
I dont care if i get banned. I get the hider and let him bleed out while giving the other one the hatch.
I'd say grey area, but I'm no dev.
As someone who plays solo survivor, when I'm killer I do not want to reward someone who camps the hatch. I try not to get the survivor working on gens involved, since I know that could maybe possibly get us both in trouble, but I will do hit-and-run chases with them to slow their progress and focus on finding the one who's hiding.
I wouldn't know about confirmed cases of banning, but I feel confident in saying that "working with the killer" in terms of everyone goofing around is safe. It's very common for me to spare a survivor and have them respond by selling out their teammates to me. I'll follow them to the teammate because I don't know what they're trying to show me, but won't be aggressive; that's not working with the killer because I'm not taking advantage of the situation. Now, if there were 3 survivors in a conga line with the Wraith, and they ferreted out the last survivor who didn't want to play around and was doing gens, that'd probably be working with the killer. Definitely would be, if they trapped him for a prolonged period of time or the Wraith sacrificed him and let everyone else live. (I'd say more grey area if they just wanted to hook him twice and then let him go back to whatever he was doing, because that's not holding anyone hostage.)
Meanwhile, it's pretty commonly understood that if one survivor spends the whole game leading the killer around to other survivors, and the killer kills those players while their sellout tbags, that's blatant gameplay abuse and you should be slamming that report button.
To clarify the thread, I'm not asking this because I want to report people doing this. If I'm honest, I wouldn't report this even if a mod came in here and told me that yes, this is 100% bannable. I just want to know whether I'm liable for this, because I'm one of the killers who does not want to reward the player who wasn't helping their team.
As a survivor I've only sold out a teammate once, and I wasn't sure whether the killer was doing it for this purpose or because they wanted to farm (spent 6 minutes doing gens while they wandered the map, then they knocked me around a few times until I figured out what they wanted), but I witness it a lot as a spectator and it's one of the most satisfying things ever watching the player who was urban evading in corners all game face justice for their crimes.
In that situation, you should play the match like normal until you find the hider, then kill em. You can let the last one go and then its generally viewed as "nice killer main who showed mercy."
My intentions posting this is because somebody else made a thread complaining that other players were doing this to them after doing an intentionally stealthy gamestyle, and the stealthy player reported them for it, and I wanted to know which side was in the right and whether they could meaningfully report both players for essentially agreeing that they didn't deserve hatch, or trying to shift killer aggro onto them, after an otherwise ordinary match. I've never recruited a survivor to find an immersed teammate, but it's something I would consider doing in the future if I was sure I wouldn't get grilled for it. It's something that I typically support when I watch it happen, because as I've said, this mostly happens when one player was hiding all game and everyone else is pissed at them.
My choice in targeting players is pretty vanilla. If I'm being friendly, I'll target players who aren't on death hook. If someone was BMing me and it isn't a horrible idea to chase them, I'll prioritize them over other survivors. If I witness somebody sandbagging someone else, I'll ignore the target in favor of the sandbagger. Tunneling is explicitly defended within the rules, and harassment only counts if it's persistent across several games and you can prove via chat that the killer was trying to ruin your day in particular, or a single game if it involves the killer lobbing hate speech/derogatory comments at you as the reason for targeting you... so otherwise you have free reign to go after whoever you want, whyever you want. The issue here is recruiting the other survivor to help you with that.
I'm 100% confident goofing around with the killer is safe. That already falls under the grounds for farming, which both mods and devs have stated is not reportable, albeit something they don't encourage. Farming is working with the killer and refusing to engage in normal gameplay, but it is to everyone's benefit and agreed upon by all parties, so they aren't going to hold people accountable. They have stated as an addendum that it becomes reportable if the farming players are holding unwilling players hostage - basically, farming is fine when all players want to farm, but if someone wants to leave the match, you cannot force them to farm with you or prolong the farming by preventing them from doing gens/leaving. So pulling that player off gens but refusing to kill them, or trapping them between slugs and heals, is a reportable and eventually bannable offense. It's my assumption that killing a player who doesn't want to farm and farming with the rest is reportable on the grounds of those other three working together, but that's more of an extrapolation than solid ground.
Either way, official clarification's why I made the thread. I just don't see a reason not to discuss it in the meantime.
In this scenario, the person leading the killer to the person hiding is working with the killer to kill he other, which makes it a bannable offense under the rules. The killer utilized the help of the survivor to find the hiding one to kill them off - clearly working together on both sides.
For the one hiding, if they were not doing anything at all in majority, that could possible fall in a greyish area. It's a bit more "difficult", but it really depends. The working with the team is definitely bannable though.
The Survivor that was aiding the Killer can definitely be reported because they were actively working to help the Killer take down someone else. I would argue the Killer can also be nailed for this too if they're not actively trying to go after the first Survivor.
The one hiding I would say does not have a case to be reported because the Killer and other Survivor are equally responsible for drawing the game out by hunting for the hiding Survivor together instead of doing anything else.
Alright, thanks for clarifying this! I'm assuming the killer is allowed to ignore a survivor they don't want to kill, they just can't recruit them in the pursuit of the one they'd rather nab.
As for grey areas, I think ultimately, gameplay-wise, there's a situation where anything is justified - if I'm pointing the killer to a teammate because the teammate is bodyblocking another teammate in a corner and there's no other way to free them, I'm not in the wrong. But that's all down to the footage. The point is that the main use case here is not within the rules and shouldn't be done.
Leaving someone alone to do gens while you look for the other player is a valid solution anyway; if you don't find them beforehand, you'll catch the hiding player when they go for the gates, and it prevents the usual stalemate you'd get where nobody makes any move to progress the game and you're held up for half an hour.