Is dbd becoming too overwhelming for the new players and how would you improve that?

Shaped

The amount of perks and killers keeps piling up and the amount of information players need to know to stand a chance.

The grind is also too much for people who like to try different things.

I was wondering how new players feel about the game too, if you are new share your opinion. Is it too much for you?

Professor_Fizz

New players don't have to deal with a mountain of teachable perks, at least.

VESSEL

@Shaped said:

The amount of perks and killers keeps piling up and the amount of information players need to know to stand a chance.

The grind is also too much for people who like to try different things.

I was wondering how new players feel about the game too, if you are new share your opinion. Is it too much for you?

Honestly I do take my hours for granted sometimes.

I think new player perks like Zanshin and WoO should be free for all players at hour 1. Or atleast through some other way like doing the tutorials.

Another thought is maybe promoting new players to play with SWF. So there isn't so much animosity to other players for playing badly.

Pilot

@Professor_Fizz said:

New players don't have to deal with a mountain of teachable perks, at least.

Eh? You mean veteran players.

New players have no teachable perks.

Professor_Fizz

@Pilot said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2298685#Comment_2298685

Eh? You mean veteran players.

New players have no teachable perks.

That's what I said, they don't have to crawl through a mountain of garbage to get decent perks. The characters you get for free have some of the best perks in the game.

Shaped

@Professor_Fizz said:

New players don't have to deal with a mountain of teachable perks, at least.

That is true for people who just want to play meta. I am introducing two friends to this game and waiting for the event so they can get all the perks they need.

MadLordJack

Firstly, I'd throw out the existing grind. I've tried to convince so many people to play this game and the moment I mention the literal thousands of hours required to get all perks, or the hundreds to get a couple of good ones, they nope the ######### out and I honestly don't blame them.

Secondly, I'd swap out some of the perks. BBQ, WGLF, Pop, DS, Zanshin Tactics, and Windows of Opportunity should be base-game perks. To lessen the grind a bit more, the weaker base perks can replace them on the characters they come from.

Third, I'd make the Shrine and new character cheaper, maybe even slash the price in half.

Fourth, I'd add an actual co-ordination system that encourages teamwork, like callouts. The last thing this game needs is selfish survivors and the current solo que experience.

Friendly_Blendette

@Shaped said:

The amount of perks and killers keeps piling up and the amount of information players need to know to stand a chance.

The grind is also too much for people who like to try different things.

I was wondering how new players feel about the game too, if you are new share your opinion. Is it too much for you?

Yeah I tried getting my friend into DBD a while ago and he only ended up playing 5 matches because he kept getting stomped by purple/red ranks and tbagged.

stikyard

The grind is too much.

Prestige isn't worth it

Tiered perks make it worse

If a new player actually makes it through the frustrating part of learning how broken this game can be, the inevitable grind is typically enough for them to drop it altogether.

fogdonkey

My proposal is to make the perks immediately available without the need to buy them in bloodweb.

More details here:

@fogdonkey said:

Idea:

Make the perks from the base game, the perks from purchased DLCs and the perks bought from the shrine immediately available to all characters. I.e. it is not needed to buy the perks from bloodweb, the perks are immediately available and on max tier.

Benefits for players:

- Removes a lot of grind for players who would like to play various characters and perks but don't have a lot of time to grind for getting all the perks from the bloodweb.

- Prestige will still require grind, so only dedicated players investing a lot of time will be able to get the exclusive prestige skins.

- Prestige will be more accessible for players who already managed to get a lot of perks for a character and don't want prestige, because they would lose perks.

- Players still need to buy items, offerings, add-ons from bloodweb, so the current balance is not really going to be affected.

Benefits for BHVR:

- People will be more likely to get into the game and buy DLCs. More money for BHVR! (Currently buying a new DLC is a bit discouraging, because players won't be able to fully use/enjoy it until they manage to get most of the perks, which takes a lot of time.)

- People will be more likely to buy skins, especially survivor skins. More money for BHVR! (Currently why would someone buy a skin for a survivor that they don't play, because has only a few perks unlocked?)

Other important reasons:

- Perks differ a lot from items, add-ons and offerings. Once a perk is bought in bloodweb, it can be used forever. However add-ons, offerings and possibly items get lost after the match. So balancing wise (in the long run) it doesn't make sense to sell the perks for bloodpoints (it slows down a bit buying other stuff from bloodweb only until all the perks are unlocked).

- I guess the grind was not so noticeable earlier when there were less characters and perks. But after 5 years there are a lot of characters and perks, and more will come. With the current system the amount of grind is increasing a lot as new characters and perks are added: the grind is increasing quadratically for new players and increasing linearly for old players. This makes it very hard for new players to get into the game and hard for old players to stay in it. (This means that it is roughly 4 times harder for new players currently compared to what it was when there were half as many characters).

Further work:

My suggestion fixes the grind issue but there are still various other improvements that could be done. Let's don't discuss them too much in this topic, because it is not the main message of my post.

Some ideas for further improvements:

- Adding more ways for hardcore gamers to show off their dedication (more special exclusive skins, badges that show up next to their name, toplists, etc.).

- Possibly making prestige harder since my suggestion makes it a bit more accessible.

- Balancing the prices in bloodweb, possibly making the nodes more expensive so that players can't use the best add-ons, items, offerings in the matches all the time. Possibly removing the bloodpoint effect from BBQ or WGLF as part of this balancing.

fogdonkey

@MadLordJack said:

Firstly, I'd throw out the existing grind. I've tried to convince so many people to play this game and the moment I mention the literal thousands of hours required to get all perks, or the hundreds to get a couple of good ones, they nope the ######### out and I honestly don't blame them.

Secondly, I'd swap out some of the perks. BBQ, WGLF, Pop, DS, Zanshin Tactics, and Windows of Opportunity should be base-game perks. To lessen the grind a bit more, the weaker base perks can replace them on the characters they come from.

Third, I'd make the Shrine and new character cheaper, maybe even slash the price in half.

Fourth, I'd add an actual co-ordination system that encourages teamwork, like callouts. The last thing this game needs is selfish survivors and the current solo que experience.

All base perks and teachable perks from DLCs you bought should be just simply available immediately without the need to buy them in bloodweb. So simple and removes the grind. You still use bloodweb to get items, add-ons and offerings.

More details:

@fogdonkey said:

Idea:

Make the perks from the base game, the perks from purchased DLCs and the perks bought from the shrine immediately available to all characters. I.e. it is not needed to buy the perks from bloodweb, the perks are immediately available and on max tier.

Benefits for players:

- Removes a lot of grind for players who would like to play various characters and perks but don't have a lot of time to grind for getting all the perks from the bloodweb.

- Prestige will still require grind, so only dedicated players investing a lot of time will be able to get the exclusive prestige skins.

- Prestige will be more accessible for players who already managed to get a lot of perks for a character and don't want prestige, because they would lose perks.

- Players still need to buy items, offerings, add-ons from bloodweb, so the current balance is not really going to be affected.

Benefits for BHVR:

- People will be more likely to get into the game and buy DLCs. More money for BHVR! (Currently buying a new DLC is a bit discouraging, because players won't be able to fully use/enjoy it until they manage to get most of the perks, which takes a lot of time.)

- People will be more likely to buy skins, especially survivor skins. More money for BHVR! (Currently why would someone buy a skin for a survivor that they don't play, because has only a few perks unlocked?)

Other important reasons:

- Perks differ a lot from items, add-ons and offerings. Once a perk is bought in bloodweb, it can be used forever. However add-ons, offerings and possibly items get lost after the match. So balancing wise (in the long run) it doesn't make sense to sell the perks for bloodpoints (it slows down a bit buying other stuff from bloodweb only until all the perks are unlocked).

- I guess the grind was not so noticeable earlier when there were less characters and perks. But after 5 years there are a lot of characters and perks, and more will come. With the current system the amount of grind is increasing a lot as new characters and perks are added: the grind is increasing quadratically for new players and increasing linearly for old players. This makes it very hard for new players to get into the game and hard for old players to stay in it. (This means that it is roughly 4 times harder for new players currently compared to what it was when there were half as many characters).

Further work:

My suggestion fixes the grind issue but there are still various other improvements that could be done. Let's don't discuss them too much in this topic, because it is not the main message of my post.

Some ideas for further improvements:

- Adding more ways for hardcore gamers to show off their dedication (more special exclusive skins, badges that show up next to their name, toplists, etc.).

- Possibly making prestige harder since my suggestion makes it a bit more accessible.

- Balancing the prices in bloodweb, possibly making the nodes more expensive so that players can't use the best add-ons, items, offerings in the matches all the time. Possibly removing the bloodpoint effect from BBQ or WGLF as part of this balancing.