Unique & Interesting Way to Get Around "Tunneling", Your Thoughts?
Hi Everyone! *** EXPLANATION UP TOP *** IDEA/SUGGESTION BELOW ***
--- EXPLANATION --- You Can Find My Suggestion Below Thank You For Reading!!!
I'm actually a Rank 1 Killer main so this suggestion or rather unique idea is coming from a Killer's perspective.
I am not as good of a Survivor as I am Killer, I think my highest Survivor Rank is 5.
One of the things that I noticed playing around that Rank as Survivor is that MANY Red Rank Killers do actually use Camping/Tunneling as a Method to get a 4K game.
This was at first a bit surprising to me, as I myself have never personally used this Method as a Killer because not only do I consider it rude, but I also believe it takes the fun out of the game for both sides. I also have a belief that if you cannot secure a 4K game without camping/tunneling then you did not actually deserve it or earn it anyways, so I rather focus on improving my own gameplay to "win" and get better as a Killer than use such "strategies" to accomplish the results I would like to achieve.
I do agree that there are SOME games where the Survivors are SO good and completely wreck me, especially a well coordinated SWF could easily accomplish this as I am not the best Killer, that I do occasionally wish that I would allow myself to Camp/Tunnel because it is literally the only possible Method to secure even one kill. Or sometimes there's the one person who is playing Toxic and knows where your Ruin is and keeps going for it in front of your face repeatedly, or flashlight saving their teammates, bodyblocking hook, etc, in those cases I will Kill that person first but they are asking for it. So there are exceptions, but it is few and far between.
NOW - What I noticed is that other Killers that are Red Rank who I have seemed to be facing lately, EVEN when they are already Snowballing their Victory (as Nurse, Spirit, etc) , will Camp/Tunnel as hard as they possibly can, despite only 2-3 of us alive both injured with 3-4 gens left for example. They CLEARLY already have the 4K in the bag, and they still don't want to allow us to actually enjoy the game at all and stay near Hook then immediately Tunnel the Person who just got unhooked.
Yesterday we were playing SWF and this happened over and over to us and even with all of us running BT and DS we still couldn't stop from being 4K'd (granted we are not the best Survivors but still) with like 3 gens left.
--- SO HERE IS MY IDEA / SUGGESTION --- Please Let Me Know What You Guys Think!!!
WHAT IF - When a Survivor is on their 3rd, Final Hook .. the OTHER Survivors in the Match get a Pop Up (for example, similar to a match invite) where they can CHOOSE to Press F1 (for example) to GIVE UP one of their OWN Hook States and give that Survivor another chance.
Hypothetically the way this would work, is when a Survivor gets hooked on their 3rd & Final Hook State - for 10-15 Seconds there is an Option available for the OTHER Survivors to give them one of their Hook States (or lives) and by doing so they would LOSE One Hook State from their own and the Survivor that is Hooked will end up getting placed back into the "2nd Hook State" again where they are hanging and having to hit skill checks to stay alive. If NO ONE gives a Hook State then the Survivor just dies on Final Hook like before after the 10-15 seconds. Survivors are only able to Offer a Hook State if they have enough remaining (2 or 3 Hook States left).
Because it is an OPTION, you don't HAVE to give if you don't want to for example if someone is trolling or suiciding on Hook then you can let them die instead of
This would Benefit BOTH Survivors AND Killers because:
For SURVIVORS it would allow the game to be more enjoyable, specifically when playing with friends that are at different skill levels. I cannot tell you how many times I have played SWF with friends that are just not as skilled at the game yet and end up being DEAD on 3rd Hook so quickly while me or possibly even everyone else still has 3 Hook States remaining. This would at least allow players to continue playing and enjoying the game as much as they can, Instead of having to sit there and Spectate the Match waiting for the rest of your team to slowly die or escape.
For KILLERS it would allow a possibility to Score Higher, earn more Bloodpoints, and gain a +2 Pip easier. Why? Because I cannot tell you how many times as a Killer I have accidentally killed all 3 Survivors without even Hooking the 4th Survivor even once unintentionally just because that one last remaining Survivor played so much better or more stealthily. In situations like this I actually get upset, because for example if I am trying to +2 Pip, even if I Hook the 4th Survivor at the end of the game and secure the 4K, in most cases because I only Hooked him ONCE and not THREE times I actually get CLOSE to +2 Pip but still only +1 while trying to Rank.
So without keeping track of EXACTLY how many times you Hook each Survivor, it can get pretty difficult for a Killer to make sure that they do Hook Each Survivor exactly 3 Times to secure Maximum Bloodpoints/Pip potential. With this new system in place, it would allow Killers to at least have a chance to complete each Sacrifice fully because if it counted as a HOOK when the last remaining Survivor offered up one of his Hook States to keep their teammate alive then it would be as if the Killer actually successfully got another Hook on the Survivor that gave up the state.
The Best Part? It is Fairly Balanced to Benefit Both Sides.
Survivors get a chance to keep their teammates in the game longer, which is not only more enjoyable but also helps keep pressure on Gens easier with the additional members.
Killers get a free Hook State from another Survivor that they didn't even have to down.
It keeps the game going longer, so more fun for everyone, and it makes games slightly more fair against Tunneling/Camping and Snowballing.
And since it is OPTIONAL, no one is forced to do it unless they actually want to. It may not be "optional" for Killers, but that can even be open for discussion - although I think the whole point of this would be to prevent Killers from being able to take a person out of the game super early by ignoring all the other Survivors - and in my personal opinion that is perfectly fine and healthier for the game!
Comments
I literally cannot win half my trials by going for 8 hook 0k games. Its just not possible, I play in the sweatiest time of day by necessity. Gens take 3 minutes on average if I let them. Or often if I don't let them.
I think the biggest issue here is the concept of "tunnelling" Vs actively and deliberately going for 12-hook trials. I also think tunnelling should be addressed, first by completely removing holding m1 to victory. Once that's out of the game, killers won't be forced to play like absolute arseholes against good teams, and maybe a system to prevent tunnelling can be implemented. Not this one though, this one is just "make everyone play Nurse/Oni".
While the two may be different he was clear that any buff or nerf needs to be addressed in both sides unless it was to op. He clearly stated that if you read his post
And as for your distinction between a perk being a coded mechanic and a tactic, hate to break it to you but hook timers are also a coded mechanic, so is movement speed by the way your distinction between a coded mechanic perk and a coded mechanic tactic is meaningless. To illustrate the survivor use of ds was a tactic wherein they would purposefully get caught to trigger ds. This was addressed by changing the coded mechanic of the perk. Our discussion on addressing camping is the same, the tactic being addressed is camping the hook timer the coded mechanic.
I know in your mind camping is sme sore of holy tactic of the killer and I'm sure that the ds abuse was just something minor in your view because you like camping that much more but they both remain tactics that were addressed by altering the game's mechanica
I don't really have much comment on your status as to being what amounts to a savant as Killer. As someone who plays within the Red Ranks almost exclusively, aside from when the weird MMR tests happen and let us all "taste the rainbow," I can assure you being able to give everyone three hooks 50% of the time is an astounding level of skill. I don't think the takeaway for you should be that Killers tunnel more than you thought, but rather that your stated abilities comes off as a rather impressive "flex" whether you know it or not. To put it in context, the Superstars of this game, Streamers like Otz and his ilk, don't manage metrics like that consistently.
The real "problem" isn't Tunneling or Camping per say but rather that a Player is bored and feeling left out. That is the nature of this game, something that we simply must accept. I think the real solution is something radical that doesn't require rebalancing the entire game. I think the person on the hook should end up in a game within a game. This isn't purely my idea, but rather something born of a discussion I had with someone else who made claims (and comments) very much like yours. Imagine if the following change was made:
My view is that right now we are all approaching this the wrong way, i.e. trying to find ways to balance (an impossible task) getting rid of time on the hook, when what we need to be doing is making the time on the hook more interesting.
Please do not presume to assign motives to me. I'm a very direct, open person and if I have motives I state them. Your behavior is offensive when you do it, although I will grant you aren't aware of this because I'm not exactly rank in file in my reactions to things. I do not "like" Camping, Tunneling, or Slugging, or any tactic more or less than another. These things are merely tools and I have no attachment to them one way or another. What is important to me is Player agency exist and the option to use them exists. I actually utilize them infrequently as I like to set personal challenges to my play to keep it fresh. I don't do this for any false morality or artificial moray but simply for my own entertainment. The long and the short of it is you don't know the first thing about me, even after all our conversations. I still find this odd because I'm a fairly open book, and I state my biases up front.
I think Pulsar's choice of words was accidental and unfortunate. He used "compensation" when what he clearly was getting at was an overall game balance levy. You leapt upon his statement as if he was indicating that Killer Players require personal compensation for losing something to placate them, when he was in fact talking about avoiding having to rebalance the entire game around unintended consequences of the changes. The alteration to DS, for example, didn't alter game balance in any significant way. The only thing that has changed is some Players, who took it for doing objectives in the Killer's face, have stopped taking it. That turn of events is PLAYER driven, i.e. part of agency, and not because either side is forced into adapting to a new normal. Are you able to follow this?
You have an unfortunate habit of missing the forest for the trees. I've watched you do it at length in our debates, and I've been paying attention when you talk to others as well because I wanted to determine if this is a rhetorical ruse or simply because you are an overly literal person and "big picture" context is obscured from you. I'm still trying to give you the benefit of the doubt that is a "big picture" problem. Thus, when Pulsar used the word compensation, you used one (the most common) definition of the term and misunderstood him when he was (in context) talking about something else entirely.
If you were here from the start of our conversation you would have seen that he had the opportunity to point out if his wording was in error. He did not, he stated clearly that the ds nerf would have also required a correspondence killer nerf, however exceptions were made depending on the overpoweredness involved. Do not speak for someone else by ignoring their posts and substitute your own thoughts for them.
As for your player agency issues it's funny to me how the player agency only seems to matter to you when it comes to killers. The players tactics involving the use if ds before the nerf that was taken away? Oh you say no that's OK some Players can't just sit in front of the killer doing their objective (very different from the killer sitting in front of the survivor doing their objective) sure some players build their survivor around it but that's OK when there agency was infringed in your mind becuase unlike killer tactic of camping....well it's not important becusde you said so.
You constsntanly refer to yourself as some sort of champion of player agency when it effects a killers methods of winning but somehow when survivor agency is effected and their method of winning is removed well now it's fine. How about you either actually argue for player agency instead of claiming you do, or just be honest and admit it's only killer players agency.
I'm curious if you going to ty and say that camping is so much more important to killers than anything a survivor does so it's OK to infringe on there agency.
Or maybe point out that you don't really use camping. Funny if you can manage just fine without camping it seems the game would be playable for other killers without it too no? Or are you just so much better than every other killer out there so o ly you can manage without jt
Sounds like it could be a perk:
Survivor Perk: Self-Sacrifice
If you unhook a survivor in their struggle state, and you have not yet been hooked, you transfer one of your hook states to that survivor.
Only works once, but each survivor could theoretically transfer 1 state each to a single survivor and potentially give that person 6 hooks total to kill them, while all the others would be dead in 2 hooks.
Haha no joke, that would actually be a really cool Perk idea !!! Even better because then it even takes up a Perk Slot for a Survivor so now it's even less overwhelming for the Killer to deal with since the Survivors are also losing out on a Perk slot, BUT it would be something really fun to run if you are running with SWF that are newer to the game or less skilled!
I think this would be a great addition to the game perhaps stated as a Perk like you mentioned, I wonder if people would still have as much of a problem with it then or not ^^
A while back i suggested giving up your health stage to survivor on a hook as perk idea. It wouldn't be THAT op, when they would lose perk slot for that.
The true altruism - perk idea & 1 QoL change — Dead By Daylight
Honestly, I like it! Creative idea, and I guess I'm not the first one to have thought of it! Cheers