Multiple use DS
Now that DS basically disables when you do literally anything to progress the game (which was deserved) and now actually serves as a legit anti-tunnel perk, I think you should be able to use it every time you get unhooked. You can be tunneled multiple times a game.
Comments
Honestly your options are mostly slug or take the L which I can't blame killers not wanting to have happen most of the time at the end
No I'm sorry but that would be a terrible idea. Ds works great now because it actually stops tunneling, I run ds as a solo and it works great still and doesn't need a change now.
go after other survivors maybe?? I've had a scenario happen to where I went after an unhooker at EGC and only got one kill. I don't ever tunnel people fresh off the hook no matter what. Is that stupid?? Maybe to some people but I just try to be fair.
Unless its a true tunneler then theyll just keep chasing you after the ds since you have no defenses now. Especially if its a high speed killer like blight,nurse,spirit,billy. Its very easy to eat a ds and redown as blught lol.
Then you just have to try your best at getting better at looping and punish them for tunneling you. Ds gives you time to get to the next loop and keep the chase going.
Go after other Survivors whose locations I don't know during a time when the Survivors can basically leave whenever they want while also being able to rescue the Hooked person? That is considered good strategy?
Oh no i do that. Im just proving ds doesn't prevent tunneling at all against true tunnelers since theyll eat it and be back on you in like 10 seconds. Doesnt matter if their throwing the game im just saying ds sucks at its job kinda. If ds actually made it like i suggested where after the stun your basically gone then its preventing tunneling because they have no option to continue doing it.
I honestly don't even know how to keep this discussion going. It sounds to me like you just want easy kills.
No, I don't. I simply believe that you are advising me to play poorly during the endgame to justify the no-win scenario DS still creates.
I just wanna clarify I play both sides. Sorry if i'm trying to sound entitled.
slug and wait out the 60 second timer if you have to. If the survivor makes it to the gate then pick them up and hope they miss the skill check.
I'm assuming we're dealing with a competent player who can consistently hit the Skill Check.
I'm sorry I don't know what else I can say.
To preface, if you don't thats totally fine but do you play them about evenly at similar ranks? I'm just curious
I generally argue more in favor of killers despite playing both a lot due to seeing that game just isn't all that fun for killers often times (not that killers need to win or be stronger necessarily) but I can see a lot more reasons why people are reluctant to play killer over survivor. Survivors have unfun things to deal with (camping for example) but killers have a lot more annoyances (aside from the nature of having to deal with 4 moving targets of course) and the fact there are so few killers indicates people in general don't like being killer. I just want changes implemented to make people want to play killer at least somewhat more regardless of wins
Acknowledge that DS is an issue for creating a no-win scenario, and acknowledge that you are telling me to play poorly during the end game?
Only if DS after gates are powered is no more.
Otherwise survivors crawling out with pick up protection for 60 seconds would happen too often.
I tend to get more SWF's red rank games at night and they're usually a pretty well coordinated team.
I'm not trying to tell to play "poorly" good grief idk why you're being so malicious towards me.
Survivors have enough second chance perks as it is without making it even worse. Besides a decent killer may tunnel you so they can eat ds and not have to worry about it later. So now if it gets to end game you get to use it twice regardless and get a free escape, doesn't sound very fair to me.
no a one time use is enough.
Yeah and that's a whole other issue that, frankly, won't ever change in this game since it's so reliant on things outside the game. There isn't a good way to balance swf because swf with coms is more impactful than any adjustments you could make in game. Knowledge is very strong (which is why some of the most powerful perks are knowledge perks)
That's what I'm saying.
i was just saying I agreed
I'm not being malicious toward you. But you have to admit that asking the Killer to chase other Survivors during the endgame when the Survivors basically have the option to leave the game whenever they want is very poor strategy.
my only other advice I can give to you is run, NOED, rancor, bloodwarden. Not a full build but it can really help you at EGC.
I agree with this, although I feel much more strongly about BT since it has multiple activations, gives you a speed burst, and seems like (with the ptb) it will always trigger no matter what.
Ds annoys me but I'm not that bothered overall by it now. Now BT on the other hand is much more of a free escape at end. It should be divided into 2 perks with one being only end game while the other is before last gen
Consider that you're suggesting that I run almost an entire (gimmick) build just to justify the highly suboptimal play you were suggesting earlier.
My suggestion wasnt for ds to activate twice. Mine was in another thread that it removes grunts of pain,scratch marks, and blood trail for 10 seconds once the killers stunned. This actually gives the tunneled time to get away. Its still one time use so killers could just force it out to not have to worry about it for the endgame. And true tunnelers fear ds again because they know if their hit that surivors gone.
I'm not saying to run the whole build, but NOED/bloodwarden is a good combo and it's turned the game around for me at a crucial moment.
Both are not very good honestly, largely due to keys nullifying the entire build.
yeah I guess, I'm just trying to throw out advice.
I think it's also important to consider what is fair at the edc. Here's a scenario i had happen last month.
On Haddonfield as Myers. Killed 2 survivors (with hooks. Wasn't running tombstones) with 2 gens done. I found the last two and downed them both. One I hooked and as I went to get the other survivor the first survivor unhooked themselves first try (no perks or offerings to buff luck/guarantee unhook). I down them again, grab them, they have ds, I get stunned and look up to them opening hatch with a key and the other survivor was laying on hatch and also got out. How is this fair?
Just to clarify, I don't expect you to say that's fair but I do think situations like this really puts into question which side is screwed the most
the problem I have with keys is you can instantly open the hatch in the killer's face and there's not a thing they can do. That's why we need a 5-10 second animation so the killer has a chance to defend the hatch.
Okay but the OP wasn't it to activate twice and be able to use it both times after being unhooked.
Yeah thats horrible lol.
I don't like either perk because they do nothing unless I am on the verge of losing, and Bloodwarden especially is easily countered by 99ing the gates.
Yeah I think keys needs a 10 second unlock, chests should drastically decrease key spawns, keys open and close on the single survivor, and hatch should only spawn if 2 gens are done at least.
I think keys should only be used when all the gens are done. and yes we should decrease the odds of keys spawning in chests.
Honestly I feel the strongest about being single survivor use since keys have way more of a team impact as an item compared to all other items which shouldn't be the case. At most, items really only impact one other survivor at a given time while keys effect your entire team for a significant amount of time
(Welp, going full circle here, but worth it if we get there in the end...)
Hrm. Lets say there's some sort of balancing compromise we could make then?
Oh, I've got it. We simply eliminate those abusive no-win situation in end-game (by, for example, having DS deactivate when gens finish) and we widen the practical application of DS for recovery situations (say, some 2nd use and/or removing the healing & unhooking disqualifiers).
This way you're not covered by the so-called "tunneling" protection even at times where you're literally the only survivor left in the game. Meanwhile, its a much better safety-net for people to hold-on in situations stacked against them---whereas currently if your team starts moving to recover and needs you to heal (or even just start the healing) that's a trade-off decision since that opens the flood-gates to being slammed by the killer who totally interrupts the heal and claims without any DS value, for a situation that's really giving you the worst of both worlds.
The altered DS ends up even better at the real goal, with improved ability to delay players from being pushed out of the game prematurely. Yet its no longer the BS free escape for people who've already played the match. Best though: it'll especially stop synergizing as the ultimate free escape for players who largely CHOOSE not to play that match.... players who think slamming gens as fast as humanly possible while dodging all the normal gameplay interaction actually entitles them to escape at all.
The mechanics shouldn't be encouraging players to just tunnel gens so heavily that their pip ends up entirely contingent on cheesing points in the end-game by delaying the gates from popping, where plays can swarm the killer in relative safety until deciding its gg time. That's just BS. It's playing into the same false entitlement that gets people complaining about matters of "tunneling" and "camping" in the freaking end-game at all. Their whole frame of reference is so hilariously divorced from any meaningful context of those terms that you might as well just declare "GENS DONE = WE WON" and slam down the survivor rule book. It's best to restructure gameplay and rewards to step further and further away from all that jazz as time goes on.
I mean what be your "fair" idea to balance DS?
Make DS permanently deactivate when the Exit Gates are powered. I'm okay with letting DS work multiple times in exchange.
I rather DS work only one time, than it work 2 times. Just go after the person who unhooks. Even then survivors will use BT, and keep the gate 99. So by the time they make it, they still getting out.
More second chance, why not 😌
That doesn't work if the person who unhooked is under the effect of BT. Your response is exactly why I want DS to deactivate during the endgame.
Just eat the DS once. What is the big deal, you can eat once. Or unless you want to eat it twice, based on what your idea is. Or in end game just camp more effectively, don't stand in front of the person. Hit them from a distance so they get scared.
Sounds good. You could also have it so that if you're on death hook, the stun lasts longer. It's the "ultimate attempt to escape," after all.
My whole point is that the issue is that Killers are simultaneously being asked to avoid tunneling to dodge the stun and also tunnel early and eat the stun to avoid it later. That to me is a no-win situation.
Also hitting them from a distance makes no sense because you are allowing someone to unhook the Survivor while you are busy hitting away from the hook. The other(s) aren't going to run away from you out of fear; they're going to make the save while you are distracted or in attack cooldown and enable the exact situation I am describing.
Hell no