for the last time survivors, NOED ISN'T A PROBLEM, it's your fault it triggers

hardtimefun

You know this perk exist, you know how it triggers, you know what it does, you know how to remove it from the game, you can remove it before it even trigger, every killer you play against could run this perk.

So why do you complain about a killer using it?

You can totally remove this perk before it even trigger and you complain about this perk being a thing.

Yes noed can reward bad killers, it can and does, but it also punish survivors because you gen rushed, if you would have took the time to break 5 totems in the whole match, 16 times 5, to remove this perk without trying to hard to finish 5 gens in 5 minutes well you wouldn't be complaining about noed, but you so badly want to rush gens that you totally ignore the fact the killer can have this perk and when they do because you finished the gens in 5 minutes you cry about it? it was your job to DO THE BONES AND YOU FAILED DOING THIS SIMPLE TASK 5 TIMES, deal with it, stop crying about noed if you can remove it before it even trigger, stop being childish and do the totems.

WishIcouldmain

@Harold_Shipman said:

you can break 4 totems, miss the last one because its hidden in space somewhere and still fall victim to a terrible killer with noed. Thats not gen rushing, that's terrible luck. If noeds power were based on the remaining number of dull totems at end games, the "it punishes bad survivors" argument would be valid. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

Join the army of Detective's Hunch. Crushing the dreams of every Noed gamer and new Hag.

ShamelessPigMain

@hardtimefun said:

You know this perk exist, you know how it triggers, you know what it does, you know how to remove it from the game, you can remove it before it even trigger, every killer you play against could run this perk.

So why do you complain about a killer using it?

You can totally remove this perk before it even trigger and you complain about this perk being a thing.

Yes noed can reward bad killers, it can and does, but it also punish survivors because you gen rushed, if you would have took the time to break 5 totems in the whole match, 16 times 5, to remove this perk without trying to hard to finish 5 gens in 5 minutes well you wouldn't be complaining about noed, but you so badly want to rush gens that you totally ignore the fact the killer can have this perk and when they do because you finished the gens in 5 minutes you cry about it? it was your job to DO THE BONES AND YOU FAILED DOING THIS SIMPLE TASK 5 TIMES, deal with it, stop crying about noed if you can remove it before it even trigger, stop being childish and do the totems.

I see victim blaming is the trend of today. I guess it's the killer's fault for injuring survivors and letting them get DH up too.

If the survivors had any indication of the presence of a hex perk, as well as a totem counter (like how you can use an obsession to detect a possible DS), the situation would be different. Even then, a notification of NOED specifically would be very much in order, since hunting for totems can range from walk in the park to those glitched tractor totems that even satan fears. But they don't. Hunting for 5 dull totems is a hassle, and unless they're in a 4-man SWF, there's no way to know you've cleansed all totems. Plus, most cases will have it so that there will be no NOED; necessitating that much time wasted just to stave off one potential outcome is a pointedly unhealthy direction for any game.

Moreover, complaining about "gen-rushing" is completely missing the point. That's an entirely different topic, most of which revolves around the killer side. The survivors are literally just doing their objectives, and it's what they're expected to do. They can't get mad at us for "hook rushing," and the converse applies. It's the job of the killer to apply pressure to stave off gens; it's not the survivors' job to spoon feed you. With very powerful killers, generator speeds grind to a halt. Given, it is unfortunate as it requires the average killer to pretty much tunnel, which is another issue in need of addressing, but NOED is a far cry from a solution. With weaker ones, the survivors are literally doing what they get paid to do. Stop whining and pick up stridor Spirit; she's more fun than some people would have you think.

The point of NOED is not to stave off generators; use pop for that. The point of NOED is to give beginners a second chance by giving them a lot of power, none of which was earned or worked for. That's where the innate issue of NOED is. A perk is supposed to enhance you, not win the game for you. Devour requires you to work for it. Make your choice requires you to work for it. NOED requires that you play sloppily and says, "Don't worry, here's a little gift basket," and inside of that gift basket is a literal bazooka. That is a fundamentally unhealthy mechanic. It is simply far too powerful for what it intends to be, which itself is a pretty unhealthy mechanic. It's specifically meant to bring undeserved kills, and a counter as RNG-dependent as doing 5 totems, which again, necessitates a totem counter, is not a counter at all. That's like saying you should bring exposing add-ons and killers specifically to counter dead hard. Get off of your soapbox and maybe drop that condescending messiah complex.

papichulo

@Harold_Shipman said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2080847#Comment_2080847

An excellent, insightful counter argument.

Not really, I can counter your argument. Yes, there are 4 totems broken but one left- but an excellent and skilled survivor would know that there are sometimes at the same locations you'd encounter regular or past hex totems. So you still have a chance out of the 400 seconds of the main game to look for the totem and you have perks, items, and teammates at your feet as well. (400 seconds = all 5 generator repairs and that is not including time wasted by the killer in chases)

Mercês

@Harold_Shipman said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2080864#Comment_2080864

if you, as a team, do 4 totems but cant find the remaining one, you are being punished the same regardless as if you had done none. You're not being lazy survivors, some totem spawns can be incredibly good. In fact, in these cases, the remaining totem that nobody can find is guaranteed to be NOED so by doing 4/5 totems you've actually screwed yourself more than if you had done none.

This isn't punishing lazy survivors as OP said. This is punishing bad luck and rewarding a bad killer. If, for example, the number of exposed survivors was limited to the amount of remaining dull totems at end game, I would fully agree. All survivors exposed means at most 1 totem has been done and they deserve to be punished accordingly.

But as it is, thats not the case. NOED rewards bad killers far more than it punishes lazy survivors.

Survivors can bring 16 perks into play. One of them could be Small Game or Detective's Hunch, so finding the last totem shouldn't be problem anymore. That's why I bring small game every match instead of most know meta perks that aren't as meta as anti-totems perk. Now, any other argument that's isn't "some totems are too hard to find and I don't have an anti-totem perk on my team"?

Toybasher

@Harold_Shipman said:

you can break 4 totems, miss the last one because its hidden in space somewhere and still fall victim to a terrible killer with noed. Thats not gen rushing, that's terrible luck. If noeds power were based on the remaining number of dull totems at end games, the "it punishes bad survivors" argument would be valid. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

Small Game, or better yet Detective's Hunch.

IMHO NOED is fine but it's definitely frustrating to play against. My biggest complaint about it is killers who facecamp with it at 5 gens remaining. It's fine when used as a bit of a comeback mechanic on a normal build provided the killer is playing normally. (In some circumstances killers camp and tunnel less when they have NOED because they know the last gen being popped isn't as much the point of no return as it normally is)

No Way Out/Rancor, Remember Me, Blood Warden, NOED is seen pretty rarely and one of the more entertaining builds to see.

GoodBoyKaru

@hardtimefun said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2080852#Comment_2080852

you want a good argument? it's called detective hunch and small game and maps

Counterpoint: solos shouldn't have to use perks and items for information that SWF get for free, and having this be the case is what causes killers to be so weak in comparison to 4men sweat squads on comms as killers can't be too overbearingly powerful as to destroy solo-queue play.

MadLordJack

Once again, someone fails to understand just how strong it would be to have a perk that blocked exit gates until all 5 totems are cleansed.

ChurchofPig

WHY WOULD YOU EVER SUGGEST NOED IS MY FAULT FOR TRIGGERING! OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD DO SUCH A THING!

jk jk, but that's honestly what a lot of survivor mains sound like when trying to counter argue. Personally if I'm playing survivor and noed activates I do take a bit of responsibility for it activating since I could have probably spent a little more time finding and cleansing totems. I won't take full responsibility since there are 3 others, but depending on their "role" in the match I might take more responsibility. Like if someone ran the killer around for 5 gens I'm not going to expect them to have done anything but run so I might take a third of the responsibility. Either way it doesn't matter I still take responsibility for the activation of NOED.

xEcoLog1cDuk3Xx

Do bones

Squirrel_Thicc

@Harold_Shipman said:

you can break 4 totems, miss the last one because its hidden in space somewhere and still fall victim to a terrible killer with noed. Thats not gen rushing, that's terrible luck. If noeds power were based on the remaining number of dull totems at end games, the "it punishes bad survivors" argument would be valid. But it doesn't, so it isn't.

Common sense? On the forums? Never thought I'd see the day! :D

hardtimefun

@ChurchofPig said:

WHY WOULD YOU EVER SUGGEST NOED IS MY FAULT FOR TRIGGERING! OMG I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU WOULD DO SUCH A THING!

jk jk, but that's honestly what a lot of survivor mains sound like when trying to counter argue. Personally if I'm playing survivor and noed activates I do take a bit of responsibility for it activating since I could have probably spent a little more time finding and cleansing totems. I won't take full responsibility since there are 3 others, but depending on their "role" in the match I might take more responsibility. Like if someone ran the killer around for 5 gens I'm not going to expect them to have done anything but run so I might take a third of the responsibility. Either way it doesn't matter I still take responsibility for the activation of NOED.

unlike the first guy who commented on his post, you react properly to this post and state facts, survivors have tools and perks to remove totems, if you run the killer for 5 gens and they didn't do any of that it's really sad you end up being the one taking noed in the face, but it's their fault they didn't do anything to avoid you taking noed.

Profezia

@Yords said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2082051#Comment_2082051

Agreed, it isn't that gen speeds are too fast, it is just that killers are too weak for the most part and the maps are too favorable to the survivors.

I still sort of disagree with NOED though, it is just really hard for solo players to get them all cleansed. Even then, the fact that its existence was because gens were being done too fast is also just straight up poor design, instead of fixing the issue BHVR just implemented a band-aid fix (what a surprise). I would like to see NOED be changed to have a strong endgame effect rewarding the killer for doing well throughout the match.

I'd rather just see a totem counter implemented.