NOED Discussion
I know, I know another Noed topic...
I would like to start a civil discussion about this perk.
Majority of the DBD community know this perk is really unhealthy for the game for the following reasons:
-it is the only hex perk which lit up at the endgame (but why?..)
-it has a built in old undying with full value
-it has the devour's first hit surprise (no warning like Rancor)
-user gain unlimited exposed status effect until the totem is found
-user gain 1 stack PWYF
The perk is NOT Overpowered by any means, it's core issue is it rewards the user for bad gameplay. Hex perks should be high RISK high reward perks, but theres next to no risk bringing this perk.
Why? Because the survivors have to cleanse not just one totem but ALL OF THEM (built in undying). There is no difference between cleansing 4 totems out of 5 or not cleasing at all, so this "just do bones" argument is just ridiculous and you know it.
People fear and respect Devour Hope for a good reason, but anyone who uses Noed... well let's just say it's a Badge of Being Bad.
Maybe it's just me, but in red ranks when I go againts a killer who plays like a bot, without any mindgame, any tactics, just follow people like a zombie, I'm certain that person is a noed gamer.
This perk plagues low ranks too, because the players doesn't need to unlock certain killers to use it, it's base kit perk.
So that being sad I just wanted to shed some light on this issue. Devs please consider reworking this god awful perk with the next DS and OoO change, so we can get closer to even more balanced/healthy game.
Guys please share your opinion on this matter, I would like to hear it.
Comments
You bring up a good point. The only fix NOED needs could be to light it up from the start. That way survivors know what's coming, and if they don't clear it, they all deserve to die. That said...
I think NOED is fine. You don't do the totems and rush gens, you deserve the punishment that follows. Ideally, you always want to be a killer that doesn't let 5 gens ever finish though.
Or they can fix the bugs in the game ...
Also the rainbow map is bugged, it sounds like you didnt actually read what I said. I know because I've used rainbow maps to try and locate dull totems before and it will highlight one in the quadrant of the map next to mine and then ill walk right in front of a dull totem in the quadrant of the map I'm in and it won't be highlighted. There's a bug in the code for it and it only shows dull totems in a certain order.
Small game should take into account the floor your on in the same way that the TR should. It's either a case of lazy programming or lazy game design, take your pick.
A dull totem counter would take care of a lot of things. IDK how many times I've cleansed 3 or 4 totems and then died once the last gen was done and then spectated and watched the team get taken down by noed and if they knew that there were only 1-2 totems left then they'd be more likely to make the smart play which is to hunt for the hex totem knowing there's only 1-2 to find before trying to unhook anyone then noed would be a lot more balanced around solo players.
Do I really have to answer this question for you? :) Technically, if you are having a problem with NOED... you kind of already have your answer. I don't think people who don't do Totems are "lazy" but I do think they are gambling. It is a high risk gamble, i.e. will the Killer have NOED or not. It is no different than the gamble the Killer makes when he/she puts NOED in and HOPES it gets to activate. If not, the Killer played one Perk down the whole game.
I don’t think experienced killers use NOED unless they are doing a gimmick like NOED, & Blood Warden. It’s just a waste of perk slots. There are much better perks to use. So if you’re facing a killer that uses it, either they are new to the game or you are. I guess you could be facing a disgruntled killer who just wants to smash some survivor hopes, & dreams because of an earlier bad beat, but that’s going to be few and far between.
You would be thinking wrong. I'm not trying to be mean, but you do need to understand that NOED is used by all level of Killers. More experienced Killers who take it have specific plans, and are often doing what is called an End Game build. Some top Killers who face Red Rank SWF frequently throw them in because when you are facing a fast Gen-Rush with highly coordinated and motivated individuals, it is nice to have an Insta-Down.
It would be unwise to assume that only Potato Killers use it. It would be better to assume that it could show up at anytime, but with one key difference, experienced Killers are going to use it BETTER. For example, if/when I run NOED (and it isn't a common Perk for me as I'm not huge on the End Game builds) I will purposely ignore their Looper(s) all game. No matter how hard they try to get me to chase them I just decline and focus on the others. After all, their loopers are often NOT on Generators as they try to waste my time. What this means is that when we get to the End Game they generally have less fear of me, have no idea how I loop, and suddenly their first hook is also their final hook.
There are different strategies and styles of play. NOED just thrown in is the sign of a Potato Killer. NOED selected as part of a strategy to be applied during the entire match is going to be far more effective.
I guess that’s a way to look at it, but in red ranks, all survivors are highly motivated gen rushers. It’s difficult to accept making a build specifically relying on a perk that may get you an end game insta down. In the red ranks, as soon as the survivors see you’ve downed 1 with NOED, they are going to find that totem. Seems like a waste of a good perk spot just to get one survivor down.
Of course they are going to find that Totem, but a good Killer isn't facing 3-4 Survivors at the End Game. More often he is facing 2-3 and the time it takes them to find that Totem generally means getting at least 1-2 of those on hooks or slugging them. Again, it isn't a Build I use often, but I've seen it done very effectively. *It bears noting that I play Myers and when I'm not using a Spooky Myers build (Scratched Mirror + Boyfriend's Memo) I'm usually using a Fragrant Tuft of Hair and have infinite Insta-Down long before the end of the match. That is another reason I don't usually run it. However, when I run my Spooky Myers and "ride the lightning," i.e. I don't put in a map offering, it means I am going to be fighting on larger maps and I do often get to the End Game against a Red Rank SWF fighting on terms not favorable. That NOED at the end can come in quite handy.
It really depends on how good you are at keeping up pressure. The greater the pressure you keep on Survivors, the less time they have for doing Bones and the more desperate they get about doing Generators. It becomes easier to manipulate them into a 3-Gen by carefully herding them. Survivors take the path of least resistance when under pressure and thus you can get the 3-Gen which forces them to come fight on your terms. Then the attrition game starts. Red Rank Survivors will break the 3-Gen but you usually get them down to 1-2 before they do and that is a number that NOED can slug.
Just because the counter is there doesnt mean people will actually look for/cleanse the totems. Thats like expecting your teammates to do gens and not unhook you in front of the killer without borrowed time.
Small game is fine and so is the terror radius neither is supposed to give you exact information.
As for the rainbow map it wouldnt show you the aura of a totem right in front of you because you only see auras if your view of the object is obstructed, this is how all aura reading perks and items function, its not a bug.
While I think NOED is fine the way it is I'd say some ways to change it would be:
Aaaand that's about all I could think of, sorry. Honestly as I said, NOED is fine the way it is. It's definitely a stressful perk to go against but idk.
I escape most of the time while only pushing gens. Because the gen speeds are ridiculous.
Alright. But why is it badly designed exactly? That seems to be a point of contention. You get 1 exposed hit and then survivors know to go cleanse the totem. That's assuming you don't want to cleanse all 5 beforehand and stop it from activating at all with any of its counters.
It's not OP and effectively encounterable the way DS and OoO were/are, so I don't think a comparison between the 2 is fair. I down for changing the perk, but first the issue(s) needs to be identified. I don't really think the points listed in the OP are really issues besides maybe the warning one potentially. But giving it an immediate warning at endgame would just nerf an already meh perk without something to compensate. As others have said, the "rewards bad killers" narrative that gets thrown around sometimes isn't exactly accurate.
I think, if anything, the perks is on the weaker side and needs to be reworked to have a strong during match effect and not just an endgame gamble. That way it can be a notification when the primary effect happens (even though I think hex notifications shouldn't be a thing but for the sake of argument). But idk what you're going to do since then you get into the issue of hex totems being easy to find and if an endgame effect stays it would be effectively useless and never activate.
As is now I have stopped using the perk like a year ago since its not very good, just annoying sometimes. Its only potentially useful in endgame builds, which gives it a spot at least, or on certain maps which you have to luck into and hope you get a spot thats hard to find on top. Endgame is such a small portion of the match however, making it not really worth it imo, especially since you have to rely on survivors playing into your build.
That's lame reasoning for not including a dull totem counter tbh
And the map is bugged. Why wasn't it showing me the totem right around the corner and instead only showed me the one in the middle or far quadrant of the map?
If you look back i never said dont include it i actually said sure why not and i said it wouldnt help that much and gave those lame reasons which in context are in fact not lame but accurate.
As for The map are you sure you just didnt come within 8 meters before rounding that corner and finding it? I tried it out and had no issues, but if its a bug you should try to recreate it and record it because i would be interested in seeing it and it should be reported on here.
as survivor it's one of the few parts of the game which gets me excited! It feels like an end-level boss
Thats how I used to feel about NOED and moris when I first started the game. Then as I played more and more I realized it was just some unwashed sweat lord sat in his basement camping people out until his NOED activated. It kind of ruined the end-level boss illusion for me.
That's a crapper for sure. Fortunately, I've not faced a NOED camper in a long time, so in my experience it still retains that element of fun! Also, I don't camp neither - it's the killer fun equivalent of doing gens :D