Are The Twins as effective as they are unique?

SOMENINJANAME

Personally, from playing against them for what seems to be enough time for a valid judgement, I don't think so. I'm sure Otz, Monto, etc. can make them a reliable killer. However, me and my friends haven't had a match against them that we didn't escape.

Crowman

The Twins are effective, because the playstyle they promote (camping and slugging) are effective themselves. However, the killer is on the weak side.

Awkward_Fiend

If Twins just promoted slugging, that'd be fine, we already have Oni and Michael which promote that as well. However since they also are camp heavy then they should receive heavy changes. Especially since without camping, Twins are extremely weak.

Exerath1992

I usually 2k with twins without slugging (I do end up camping, but not intentionally. Hook someone and release victor, not realizing I left Charlotte near hook). Their ability to shut down loops by leaving Charlotte body blocking a window, door or pallet while you chase with victor is very effective. Victor comes back fast and is very powerful. It feels like your main killer is victor, and I think of Charlotte as a mobile spawn point and resource for my perks.

While we're on the subject, has anybody realized why coup de grace is really good on the twins? What I do is don't lunge with charlotte at ALL unless its a clutch moment in a chase where I couldn't use victor, or until there's one or 0 generators left. At that point you have 5 super lunges, and you can really do some damage with them. Combined with relentless to make up for a missed lunge so you can quickly do it again is nice. I imagine shed be a good "exit gate defender" killer because you can combine that with blood warden and NOED and have a really strong end game presence

ProfGameAndTalk

@Exerath1992 said:

I usually 2k with twins without slugging (I do end up camping, but not intentionally. Hook someone and release victor, not realizing I left Charlotte near hook). Their ability to shut down loops by leaving Charlotte body blocking a window, door or pallet while you chase with victor is very effective. Victor comes back fast and is very powerful. It feels like your main killer is victor, and I think of Charlotte as a mobile spawn point and resource for my perks.

While we're on the subject, has anybody realized why coup de grace is really good on the twins? What I do is don't lunge with charlotte at ALL unless its a clutch moment in a chase where I couldn't use victor, or until there's one or 0 generators left. At that point you have 5 super lunges, and you can really do some damage with them. Combined with relentless to make up for a missed lunge so you can quickly do it again is nice. I imagine shed be a good "exit gate defender" killer because you can combine that with blood warden and NOED and have a really strong end game presence

Oh wow, I never thought about saving them for the endgame. I tend to lunge A LOT! I need to be more disciplined in my striking. Oh well, I'm a noob getting good. Thanks for the idea!

Exerath1992

@ProfGameAndTalk said:

https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1862267#Comment_1862267

Oh wow, I never thought about saving them for the endgame. I tend to lunge A LOT! I need to be more disciplined in my striking. Oh well, I'm a noob getting good. Thanks for the idea!

Yeah, I found out by accident the first time I played them because I was practicing victor the whole game and realized I had 5 tokens at the end. Pulled off a 2k as a result.

Also, I forgot to mention the one improvement they should add to the twins to make them 100% viable.

Fraternal missile: when victor has been bonded to charlotte for 15 seconds or more, press and hold the power button to throw victor (the "release victor" action would be moved to the "alt ability" button). Preparing to throw victor takes one second, slows Charlotte to 2.4 m/s, and has the same trajectory as a typical pounce except with a slightly higher origin point. After throwing, you take control of victor unless he attaches to a survivor, in which case charlotte is fatigued for 3 seconds.

ukenicky

They're too reliant on slugging and camping. Tunneling too sometimes but it's mostly slugging and camping since their kit naturally lends well to those two things.

It's not fun to play against and I'm sure people who play as Twins don't feel too good about literally having to use those tactics to have a chance at winning. See that's the problem here, while camping, slugging and even tunneling are all valid strategies that killers may use, it's absurd when a killer is designed so poorly that, if they don't utilize those strategies constantly they are quite possibly the weakest in the game.

That's just poor character design. I want to see the Twins be powerful enough to be played like the average killer and NOT rely on slugging and camping two players at once. The loading screen tips literally advise against camping people on hook and yet Twins pretty much have to camp to maintain any sort of intimidating presence/their kit literally screams to camp.

Exerath1992

@ProfGameAndTalk I put together my full opinion and surprising perk strategies in the link below if you're interested

@Exerath1992 said:

A lot of people say the twins are underwhelming because charlotte doesn't have any abilities. I disagree, because I view Victor as the main killer, and charlotte as a mobile spawn point, downed survivor chofeur, gen breaker, window/pallet/doorway blocker, and surrogate for when you need to use your perks.

Victor is very powerful on his own due to his base speed, blood tracking, small size, short shriek radius, respawns very quickly and his lunge is the most powerful lunge attack in the game yet. With all these strong aspects, he HAD to have some drawbacks, such as being crushable by pallets and after missed lunges, your perks exclude him, and he's weak against short, circular loops.

I think the strengths and weaknesses balance out and make them harder to learn because you have to think very differently than any other killer, and craft your perk loadout differently. For example:

-You can use PWYF to buff Charlotte speed so she can get to generators for breaking or get to and transport downed survivors faster, while using victor for most of your attacks to preserve tokens. Plus, you can easily drop chase to gain a token without actually dropping chase by releasing victor.

-Using STBFL can give charlotte more snowball potential for emergencies and you can preserve tokens by only going after the obsession with victor

-Using Coup De Grace, you can rely heavily on victor for most of the match and refuse to lunge with charlotte in order to save up tokens, giving you a lot of snowball potential in the end game, especially when combined with STBFL

-Any perk that gives hemorrhage gives victor a lot of tracking potential.

-You can use bamboozle in a room with 2 exits to block a window, body block the door with charlotte, and release victor to kill the survivor.

-Using insidious lets you return to charlotte without her TR returning, so you can chase a survivor with victor to a hidden charlotte, switch back to her, and wait for the survivor to take the bait and try to crush victor, then pop out and you have easy, distracted prey

-Because controlling victor removes charlotte TR, you can use dragons grip and hide charlotte nearby to surprise a survivor while they're exposed. Conversely, using trail of torment allows you to leave victor to guard the generator and sneak up on people with Charlotte

-Use Franklin's demise and leave one of the twins standing on a dropped key to ensure the entity consumes it.

-Devour hope and make your choice allows you to leave victor close-ish to the hook while you walk charlotte away so you can still get the effect without giving them too much of a head start.

-I saw a post suggesting dead mans switch and thrilling tremors so you can quickly get all survivors off of generators using victors speed to give the perks more value than they typically would.

All this being said, I do think there is one thing they could add to the twins to make them absolutely perfect:

Fraternal missile: when victor has been bonded to charlotte for 15 seconds or more, press and hold the power button to throw victor (the "release victor" action would be moved to the "alt ability" button.) Preparing to throw victor takes one second and slows Charlotte to 2.4 m/s. Cancelling a throw fatigues charlotte for .5 seconds. Throwing victor has the same trajectory as a typical pounce except with a slightly higher origin point, and victor can be crushed by pallets mid-flight and is crushable for 3 seconds after being thrown if he missed or downed a survivor. After throwing, you take control of victor unless he attaches to a survivor, in which case charlotte is fatigued for 3 seconds.

This addition would make it where survs can't under-estimate charlotte because you don't know if she will bust out the baby toss or not. It can't be used frequently because after he's thrown, he has to get crushed, wait 30 seconds of being latched on, or 90 seconds of being idle.

MadLordJack

You only need to go against one team that doesn't split up while injured to see how weak they can be. Plus, it's not fun to have a killer that's only really decent when slugging, camping and tunneling.

AggressiveFTW

I honestly want to see a full rework. I have no interest in their power what so ever.

Leonardo1ita

Effective but too much slugging, that's a bit strange for solos

SOMENINJANAME

@MadLordJack said:

You only need to go against one team that doesn't split up while injured to see how weak they can be. Plus, it's not fun to have a killer that's only really decent when slugging, camping and tunneling.

That's pretty much how I feel about them. Easy to outplay with proper teamwork/communication.