The Event is but a symptom to a larger problem

Disclaimer: This post is going to come with some pretty unpopular opinions. If you do not see a problem with things as they are then this post isn't for you. Nor does this post intends so shame any tactics from players on either sides.

But everyone is so focused on the event that I worry that they'll let up once the developers fix it. The event is not the main issue here, Dead by Daylight following trends in modern gaming is. Why does Dead by Daylight need a battle pass?((The Rift)) Why are people tolerating fee to pay mechanics in a game that cost them an entry price? I'd go as far as to say having to purchase certain characters in order to get perks that are pretty damn vital to the game is pay to win. We're so content to shame other players for not playing in ways we like but we don't dare to challenge the developers into to crafting an experience that is dynamic and enriching for both sides. We're fine with being sold solutions to problems they create themselves. That's something we need to stop. Anyways here are the points that interest me:

"The developers need money for this game to stay afloat. They're a small indie company"

Wrong. They've been in the game since 1997. Their first title was Jersey Devil for Playstation One. The microtransactions, the grind, and the likes are a means for these companies to impress their shareholders. Hell many of these companies don't even pay their taxes. They will see more money than we will for our entire lives.

"But Luffy, YOU DON'T HAVE TO BUY THE COSMETICS!!!"

No developer put microtransactions in their game for you not to purchase them. None of them. These people aren't your buddies, they are a corporation trying to squeeze as much cash out of us as possible. How? There are many means to do so. Some companies use FOMO to exploit their customers, this is basically the fear of missing out. Some use skins, this is a popular method used by Epic Games with Fornite. So imagine you're a kid right? You are playing a default character while you're surrounded by the cooler kids with the better skins that they paid with their parents' money. The haves and have nots. There's another tactic of making purchases confusing for customers, this is a popular one I've seen often in my line of work. They're either elderly people or former addicts who are desperately trying to turn to a new hobby only to be exploited. These addicts gain a new addictions in the form of loot boxes, microtransactions, and etc. I've seen horror stories where they spend thousand of dollars. If they aren't exploiting weaknesses, making you feel like you are missing out, or making you feel like a peasant there's nagging and annoying you when you're trying to play the game in peace. God, I hate the Rift so much. I can't even count how many times I accidentally click on the little thing on the right. Don't even get me started on how the mentally ill are exploited too.

"You could just work to get the skins."

See most fee to pay games will see their customers work what is pretty much a part time job in order to earn a fancy costume or in this case a character that will grant that player an advantage. According to my research, it takes around 70 hours? I'm hoping someone smarter than me will bring clarity to this. I don't know about you, but that's far too much for people who have to work, have families, and other obligations, so what do they have you do? Just pay to bypass all of that crap. It's maybe 50 shards per level? To make matters worse we don't even have crossprogression yet. So you either going to get on the grind or purchase the DLC again.

"Just purchase them with shards from the Shrine of Secrets"

Lets me start by saying that I want to be as nuanced and charitable as possible here, but no. I understand that the game has to be balanced, there are decisions the team has to make that are unpopular even someone like me gets that but what I don't like are selling solutions to the problems the developers themselves cause. Gen times were going too fast? How about slow progression perks? Survivors have an issue with tunneling or camping? How about characters like Ash who allows you to take another hit then we nerf him later on? Who thought MOM was a good idea? If I were a survivor, I'd be steaming. Even that one of DS didn't interest me, especially not to the point of celebrating. I know in an action horror game a perk of this nature would make sense, but that only works if the killer is an imposing force. Like how knives will save your butt in Friday the 13th: The Game. A Leatherface putting most of your team in the basement while you must brave the jaws of death to rescue them sounds awesome, it's just like the movies in that regard! Especially if they're using Insidious. Those Leatherfaces are my favorite to play against. But in execution it falls flat. Dynamic tools should be built into the game in order to maintain the feel of cat and mouse. If you want to have perks be the solution then at least do something cool like having Sabotage cut down a player on a hook, the hook could still be stuck inside of their body thus causing the bleeding status effect and it'll take another player to remove it, could be an interesting counter against camping while not screwing over the killer and still maintain some form of horror. Give killers more tools to work with that allows for creative play and freedom. You're going to force killers to be responsible for the survivors' fun then at least built new game modes within the killers. Hell, have The Pig have extra "games" survivors could play or give the Trapper more dynamic and interesting traps to play with. Or put your chapters on hold to get rid of bugs and glitches, then focus on balance. We should not be sold a solution in the form of perks, perks should be the extra spice during matches.

So this brings me to my next point...Dead by Daylight should be free. I could probably forgive all of the bull crap if it was. Then it'd be just like all of the other free to play games with stuff you could buy. There was never any need for a pass in this game, even Fornite whom I used as a bad example is free. And the events that come with the game are...weird but engaging. Dead by Daylight has so much potential to do the same thing but the developers refused to. Some of us have been discussing this for years only to be shunned now players are seeing how bad things can get. We shouldn't let up because we love the game nor should we let up after they fix the event. Things need to change. I'm willing to wager the rivalry between killers and survivors could be fun if the initial problems were fixed. A rivalry between two sides are awesome in gaming, it's the reason I loved DC Universe Online when I did. Don't even get me started on the crappy reporting system, how much racism and harassment players have to endure before Behavior concern themselves with the safety of their community?

Anyways that's my rant, I apologize if it's a novel. But I've been wanting to make this post for a while. Regardless of our position we're all here cause we like Dead by Daylight.

TLDR: We shouldn't be content with being sold solutions to screw ups the developers cause nor should we excuse live service BS in our games. It isn't innocuous, it actually harms people who are vulnerable. INB4 this is moved to feedback

Comments

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707294#Comment_1707294

    I am trying to understand your logic, I won't lie its a mess to navigate through. Getting through this stoned makes it all the more challenging.

    If you want to argue in defense of a game then EA is the very last example you'd like to use, but that'd be the one thing we agree on. Behavior is heading in the same direction as EA but without the safety blanket. A novel and a live service video are two different forms of media. When I sell a novel to the public then have toys license for it, I am not having the book have a few pages missing while I sell my customers chapters then annoy them half to damn death while they try to enjoy it in peace. That comparison doesn't add up. And this post wasn't just about DBD being free, did you even bother to read the rest of it?

    I'm not trying to be a douchebag, but I am confused. 🤔

    ok i was not talking in DEFENSE of a company or game, I was correcting your assertion that they are using something that MOBILE games came up with. in fact it was a model that was started by EA back in the mid 90's. this is in discussion of the battle pass.

    NOW YOU made the assertion that Dead by Daylight should be free. and I said no it shouldn't. they sold DBD as it was made without anything to hold back at that point, and thus it should still cost. the DLC's are actually EXPANSIONS to the game. Game expansions were in existence before the mid-90's by adding content to their game, companies like activision were able to charge more and for example the original MECHWARRIOR 2, it came out with Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon full missions and everything. Then later they came out with the expansion Clan Ghost Bear. IT only worked if you had the base game which by the way was about 40-60 bucks back in the 80's, and the expansion was the same price! yet no one cried about it.

    the only thing in the battle pass are things that do not enhance the game play what so ever only change how things look. This is not a DLC, nor did they call these EXCLUSIVES.... they said that it would be exclusive to those that earned it as well as across ALL platforms for a minimum of 6 months before people could purchase them. in contrast the items like Golden Feng or others given out years before they were exclusive to steam and could not be purchased through OFFICIAL SOURCES (not third parties). So the EXCLUSIVITY of the rift, or even these codes for the one charm is exactly NOTHING. To call the rift exclusives you would have to call all the outfits in the STORE EXCLUSIVE as well. why? because if you don't buy them then you can't have them. Lets also leave out the legacy skins, however you did bring up the death garden face mask which i have not had time to think about it as I was busy doing more.

    gotta love when people decide they are still able to understand everything when they are in an altered state of consciousness I'd suggest not trying to understand anything when high as you will never understand things properly.

  • I didn't say that mobile phones started battle passes, I said that Dead by Daylight follow the free to pay mechanics without being a free to play game, a method most mobile phone games use. And from my research Dota 2 originated the battle pass.

    I never said I had an issue with expansions. With an expansion you're selling a completed product and you desire to add onto it. If I purchased an RPG and it was completed then I'd have no issue with playing an extended story. I didn't have an issue when DBD was only doing DLCs.

    You're ranting over something I have never said and can't seem to grasp a simple issue: if your base game costs money then you shouldn't implement crappy live services into your game. There's no reason to suggest that Dead by Daylight would not be successful that it went free to play, it'd have even more players.

    Well your responses to me wouldn't make any sense to me sober, if that helps. I felt like I have repeated myself a thousand times, every single interaction between us so far has been like Groundhog Day. I'm doing my best not to insult you. I don't want my account locked up and I don't want my thread closed.

  • @Marc_go_solo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707382#Comment_1707382

    That discounts free will. The people make a conscious decision to purchase, with the exception of addiction. Falling for it implies someone was tricked or manipulated. Willingness to buy means they know what's happening and choose to do it with no edging. That part of the brain that's stimulated is only a small part of the overall decision-making.

    You can keep your fruit analogy though. I don't like tomatoes, no matter how you pronounce it. :p

    If free will was the only part in the equation companies wouldn't spends billions in advertising. Fruit analogy aside, I recommend you catch a few episodes of Brain Games.

  • @jhiieri said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707401#Comment_1707401

    If free will was the only part in the equation companies wouldn't spends billions in advertising. Fruit analogy aside, I recommend you catch a few episodes of Brain Games.

    Just sounds like shifting the buck to me. I've never seen Brain Games though. Why should I watch it?

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707526#Comment_1707526

    I remember that and it was one of the best moves they have ever pulled. It drew in plenty of players and for the most part of they were willing to stay on board. Dead by Daylight has its flaws but "won't last the year"? What? Have you that little faith in the game? It out lasted most asymmetrical horror games out there. I fail to see how heading in the direction of free to play would tank the game, I'd need to see some sources.

    Yes, people will still buy skins. Fortnite is free and people are buying skins left and right. I give Fortnite less ######### because the game is free despite my own misgivings I explained earlier. And yes, I know you don't want to hear it but yes there are strong pay to win elements in the DLC. Most crucial perks are locked behind pay walls. There's an option to earn the costumes, the perks, and the characters but it's behind a tedious grind that will take the time of a second full time job. All by design to have you part from your wallet just like a mobile phone game.

    Whether you personally love the rift or not is irrelevant. My criticism shouldn't take away your enjoyment from this game, but I do challenge you to think critically about the products you consume. Unless your time is worthless then it's not free. Macote might as well put me on the clock at this point.

    If companies that sell alcoholic beverages had predatory ads? You bet your ass I would. I'm pro consumer. And yes, most marketing is scummy I know people that work in marketing and I do contracting work for a pretty major tech company. Just because something is normalized doesn't make it correct. When we grow complacent then things get worse. I have to say I find your attitude to be pretty disgusting. That being said, I'm not exactly a fan of Capitalism. You'd be barking up the wrong tree.

    The bugs and glitches are pretty bad, they're worse for console. I have this game for PC and Switch. Consoles are a nightmare to play this on, they still haven't done anything with the optimization.

    That's unfortunate my friend cause they already had. They have been selling us solutions to problems they themselves cause like most companies do.

    I have some faith in dbd now, albeit a little less since the last patch (I am on ps4). When i said it wouldn't last a year i was talking about when it first came out. I don't think that it would have made it if it came out as a free to play game.

    You can call my attitude disgusting, but i have yet to see a better system than free will and capitalism. I am not saying it is by any means perfect, but let people buy what they want. Sounds like you are in one of those states that have the same philosophy (lucky you).

  • Uh, Guys, You do know Thanks to be epidemic, They all work from home right?

  • @Emeal said:

    Uh, Guys, You do know Thanks to be epidemic, They all work from home right?

    The live services. the crucial perks being locked behind a paywall, and the bugs have been issues long before the pandemic...

    You do know this right?

    Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg


  • @Jyn_Mojito said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1702519#Comment_1702519

    Just had to chime in, Warframe is AMAZING! I love the character customization, there's events, and LOTS of lore 🥰

    Also chiming in to say chroma is love, chroma is life.

  • @kcwolf1975 said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707925#Comment_1707925

    I have some faith in dbd now, albeit a little less since the last patch (I am on ps4). When i said it wouldn't last a year i was talking about when it first came out. I don't think that it would have made it if it came out as a free to play game.

    You can call my attitude disgusting, but i have yet to see a better system than free will and capitalism. I am not saying it is by any means perfect, but let people buy what they want. Sounds like you are in one of those states that have the same philosophy (lucky you).

    Dead Dead by Daylight first came out, it didn't have the microtransactions or battle passes though. When it introduced the concept of the store and the Rift then that's when it should have gone free to play. If you're going to intimate free to play models then your game needs to be free to play. You have yet to convince me why this would be a failed model.

    Literally no elected official or state in this country share my views politically. But I'm not interested in discussing my politics with you tbh. Discussing this is exhausting enough. But I tell you what, I'm going to drop a video for you. It's an old video but it implies here. I've had the same attitude you did and looking into various sources has quelled that. Hopefully that will do the same for you here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHszeYz5Mi0&ab_channel=JimSterling


  • @Uncharted said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707238#Comment_1707238

    Also chiming in to say chroma is love, chroma is life.

    You guys convinced me to give it a try. Once I'm done moving I will definitely check it out.

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708412#Comment_1708412

    You guys convinced me to give it a try. Once I'm done moving I will definitely check it out.

    Yes! If you feel like having company just send me a PM to find you in game.

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708388#Comment_1708388

    The live services. the crucial perks being locked behind a paywall, and the bugs have been issues long before the pandemic...

    You do know this right?

    https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GL0CCX2DINFO/paris-tuileries-garden-facepalm-statue.jpg

    Game works fine for me, you dont need most locked perks, and you can report bugs on the fourm, but it will take time.

    And it will take longer under the pandemic.

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708355#Comment_1708355

    Dead Dead by Daylight first came out, it didn't have the microtransactions or battle passes though. When it introduced the concept of the store and the Rift then that's when it should have gone free to play. If you're going to intimate free to play models then your game needs to be free to play. You have yet to convince me why this would be a failed model.

    Literally no elected official or state in this country share my views politically. But I'm not interested in discussing my politics with you tbh. Discussing this is exhausting enough. But I tell you what, I'm going to drop a video for you. It's an old video but it implies here. I've had the same attitude you did and looking into various sources has quelled that. Hopefully that will do the same for you here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHszeYz5Mi0&ab_channel=JimSterling

    Hard to take a guy seriously when he has a squid on his head lol

    He is talking about aaa premium $60 games though. I do hate it when those come out and then there are dlc packs ready to buy day 1, that's bs.

    Dbd will probably go free at some point, but I don't think it's a big deal if they don't. I have never played a game for multiple years that keeps evolving like this one. They could have easily quit on it and just made a dbd 2, but instead they added the skins and rift to have a revenue stream which they have used to grow the game.

  • No... not really lol. Been playing since 2014 and you can’t buy power and you can get all frames and weapons pretty easily lol.

  • @tattiepicker said:

    I bought the pass once for the clown cosmetics and I didnt get to max level after trying as hard as i could so i haven't bought the pass again. Dont need it. Plus I use shards to buy the new characters so it ain't that bad. This isnt pay to win in the slightest.

    No, it is just pay to circumvent the grind/get stuff you cannot get for free.

  • @thefallenloser said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1707085#Comment_1707085

    No... not really lol. Been playing since 2014 and you can’t buy power and you can get all frames and weapons pretty easily lol.

    That's with all eidolon items? Or the fortuna crapload of things? Or railjack missions?

  • @NursesBootie said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1709854#Comment_1709854

    That's with all eidolon items? Or the fortuna crapload of things? Or railjack missions?

    ...yes.

  • @LuffyBlack said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708355#Comment_1708355

    Dead Dead by Daylight first came out, it didn't have the microtransactions or battle passes though. When it introduced the concept of the store and the Rift then that's when it should have gone free to play. If you're going to intimate free to play models then your game needs to be free to play. You have yet to convince me why this would be a failed model.

    Literally no elected official or state in this country share my views politically. But I'm not interested in discussing my politics with you tbh. Discussing this is exhausting enough. But I tell you what, I'm going to drop a video for you. It's an old video but it implies here. I've had the same attitude you did and looking into various sources has quelled that. Hopefully that will do the same for you here.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHszeYz5Mi0&ab_channel=JimSterling

    Turning the game Free-2-Play would ruin the game, though. It'd invite the Hackers in by the boatload! As long as EAC is as ######### as it is, BHVR should keep a cost for the base game. I rather see them remove the Rift (or improve it greatly by adding Iridescent Shards as a price for the free track) and lower the costs of skins in the in-game store. $10-15 for a skin is.. well..

  • @Marc_go_solo said:

    https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1708227#Comment_1708227

    Just sounds like shifting the buck to me. I've never seen Brain Games though. Why should I watch it?

    It gives you a lot of insight in how your brain works. And I'm not shifting anything. If BHVR can milk more money out of the game by creating skins over fixing their dozens of bugs instead, they will do so. It's easier to draw a new skin than shift through code

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