"if we let killers know they are versing swf, they will always quit" Do you see what is wrong here?
Yeah, it's the "if they don't know they are playing against cheaters, they wouldn't complain" mentality. Why fix the problem, when we can just pretend it doesn't exist, right? edit: I'm talking about comms of course. SWFs without comms are fine, but we all know that they don't exist, so it would be safe to assume swf=comms.
EDIT: People upvoting the comment below, why are you the way you are?
Comments
To all the people who are saying that SWF isn't cheating: just remember how the game is designed. There is no voice chat on purpose. The game is designed to have a surprise effect and an uncertainty that gives the killer an advantage because he is playing against 4 other individuals. And tbh that makes the game very interesting. I really enjoy these moments when all solo queue teammates are knowing what to do and it feels like playing in a SWF, eventhough that isn't the case.
Two people on comms are already game changing and can be a pain in the ass.
The game itself is not balanced and designed for SWF and will probably never be. So it is actually cheating in a way, eventhough it is an implemented feature.
I personally don't mind playing against a SWF and I honestly don't need to know if I verse them. The only thing I would wish for is some sort of slowdown and a limitation to certain perks. That would actually make it more fair and interesting for both sides. A good SWF will win 99% of the time and that can't be fun. No wonder some of these groups are going out of their ways and trying to bully killers because escaping alone isn't satisfying anymore.
The killer should get a subtle buff when facing a group. Communication is better then any perk in the game.
I don't care who he is, I'm not going to kiss his ass. If I think he's being a jerk, I'll say so. Also people were dogpiling on the OP first, yourself included. There was no discussion, people strawmanned him throughout the entire conversation while insulting him.
And I don't doubt that, I appreciate the small minority of you that do but the majority of you do not. Look at the comments in this thread, furthermore look at how many times this was discussed. People tend to dodge the main issue on purpose because they want to fight. SWF isn't an issue, the problem is that comms tend to break the game and render it useless. That's a pretty valid issue. How people got "KiLleRs want EZ games cuz they sux!" is beyond me.
Because that'd be stupid and it'd make solo play unplayable
The perks you listed as replaced by comms are trash tier anyway. Even solo players don't use them. The only players that use the perks you listed in my experience are players that don't buy DLC, or they fall into noon trap perks, or they use kindred because they die on 1st hook or get 2 hooked a lot. Nothing will ever come of these posts. Whether it's about comms or SWF because they can't nerf it without destroying their own game for you whiners that claim it's not about free 4ks and it'd take tons of time and resources that'd be better used on literally anything else to better this game. Also they can't do anything about an app they don't control.
Seriously you twist my words in my mouth.. what i said there is not even related to that posting, but i will answer you anyway.
"Killer matchmaking"... there is no problem with killer matchmaking, there is a problem with matchmaking in general and it has little to nothing to do with ranks. I play both sides 50/50 and i ensure you, there is definitly no killer matchmaking problem. In fact, matchmaking for killer is actually way more forgiving, since it is much more easy to rank up as survivor so if you get survivor on your rank, you have usually a much more easy experience. On top of that, ranking means not a lot so survivor and killer just have to hope that MMR comes soon.
Anti smurf...what? People who want to smurf will always find a way to smurf, there is nothing they can do about it. At least no on PC, you cant do ######### against smurfs on PC.
"Generators take 15% longer to repair for every survivor queued together" - tell me, how should anybody take you serious (beside of the killer main fraction who cheer for everything that is pro killer no matter how ridicilous it is) when you suggest something like that? Play both sides, play both sides on the highest level, and THEN come here and we talk again.
🤣 This had me cracking up. lol
breaking down 4 stacks isnt that hard to do honestly you just have to play a lot more scummy and basically slug at the right time to build waves of pressure
Regularly play with someone far less versed in the game than I. I make plays that wind up a waste because their inexperience hasn't taught them what to do. We aren't on comms. The other night a Nurse hooked a david in the midwich basement after I broke the nearest hook. My buddy goes does right after that near said broken hook. I missed the pallet save but baited a missed swing at me then one seemingly of frustration after a small pause. If he had struggled he could have gotten free but did not. I could have gotten David off and out sooner if i didn't watch to see if my buddy was struggling. SWF became a slight hindrance. Against my better judgement I'll risk my own butt to give my buddy a chance only to watch him creep around and not help the other people because idk. He'll work on the badham school basement gen while one other is hooked and the last is in a chase injured. Being in a group is far from always an advantage.
If I see people really trying to save their buddy when I'm killer I know I can take advantage of the increased desire to help if I'm being outplayed. I usually catch flak for it but I explain you guys were running the table and I saw how eager you were to help each other and I needed the leg up. I'm sorry it came to that but I tried playing nice at first. They seem to understand more often than not.
Whichever side you play I think it requires an adjustment in how you approach gaming them. I think one way to help solo queue players may be to let them see what perks the others are running. Perhaps solo queue could just get a lesser kindred where it won't show the killers location within the radius and then try to balance around that. Perhaps when a killer is facing a group and some solo queue make the more experienced of the group if there is a disparity more likely to be the obsession and give them a lesser rancor reveal without the exposed/mori at the end.
This game is a lot of fun and deserves to have these things thought about.
I think you really underestimate info on survivor side. The more info survivor have stronger they are but killer doesnt get much but having info as I can only be on one person at time.
If they have SWF give me one hit knock down and No info about anything I will gladly take the deal.
Im not agree with comms not with SWF but comms make killer stressful experience no need to talk about all the perks they get by using it
Anybody who says swf is a required part of gameplay, y'all clearly dont understand how this game was originally designed around solo play and swf didn't exist yet. They shouldn't nerf it, they shouldn't buff solo to swf, they shouldn't buff killer base kit to compensate. They should remove it completely from ranked play and only allow swf in custom games.
People are jumping on SWF because game is easier with voice comms =)
Well, in the end current game has no communication between survivors and even though it provides certain tools to share info, they are nowhere as powerful as voice comms. Moreover, current game is balanced around survivors NOT having comms, take a look at Trapper or Hag for example.
Again, I agree there are balance issues between swf and solos. The only thing I’m disagreeing with is this myth that the devs didn’t intend to put swf in the game and didn’t anticipate swfs using comms. They clearly did, they just probably still have more work to do balancing them.
It certainly looks like it is not one of the important tasks, since how little was done to aid the problem since they directly admitted it exists.
I already posted above a very detailed dev reply where they specifically said “we always intended swfs to be in the game from the beginning and that they would play on comms and we would never consider being on comms to be cheating.”
I have no idea what priority they have given rebalancing for swfs since 2018. It could be that the solutions they tried didn’t work well for some reason internally, or maybe their own statistics are showing less of a disparity than we anecdotally experience, or maybe it’s just a complex problem balancing for swfs, or maybe they aren’t considering it heavily enough. It could be some combination if any or all of those factors.
Personally I think the best philosophy is one mentioned in this thread and in their Q&A - buff solo survivors so they have similar information to what swfs get on comms and then balance the overall gen speeds around that. So for instance give all survivors Kindred as a base ability so everybody knows where all the other survivors are more often but then tweak the gen speeds to make them a little slower to compensate. You’d be giving solo groups more of a boost than swfs that way without hopefully making life any harder on the killers.
Once again, i honestly don't have a horse in this race. Most of the time im flying solo, and when i do play in a team its in KYF, because god forbid even our non meta, non BMing butts ever DARE, to play together in ranked matches. Nope we get tarred with the same 'bully' brush even when we lose, and obviously deserve the abuse that comes our way.
However. For the last time and for those that appear to be hard of hearing / reading.
If a dev states that something is NOT cheating, it is NOT cheating no matter how you want to color it.
Your own personal rulebook does not contain actual rules. Nobody has to follow your rules and vice versa.
If you have a problem with SWF, fair enough, i can actually sympathize with the people who offer earnest and thoughtful changes that might help smooth things out. The people who actually put thought into how their proposed changes might effect both sides, instead of just doing their best to stick it to the other side.
But if you are sitting there INSISTING that people are cheating and that SWF was never intended to be a feature when proof of the opposite is shown time and time again, you're only adding to the problem that turns every attempt at a 'discussion' into an Us vs Them ######### slapping contest. And why on earth should the devs listen to anyone doing the forum equivalent of slapping both hands over their ears while screaming "LALALA IM NOT LISTENING" when the truth is laid out.
Once again, i have no invested interest in whether swf stays, goes, or is changed. But it amuses me that some people expect the devs to listen to them, when they can't even entertain the idea of listening to their fellow players.
>If a dev states that something is NOT cheating, it is NOT cheating no matter how you want to color it.
I already explained, that if they said "it was cheating" and could do nothing about it (and they can't) it would be a pretty sad thing to see. It's just easier for them to say that sharing information that gives unfair advantage isn't cheating, because they don't have to waste resources trying to fight what they can't defeat. That is why I call voice comms "legal cheating" since that's what it is - cheating allowed by developers.
I doesn't really matter what the devs are thinking because they implemented SWF so the game has an active playerbase. They know very well that they need SWF's. But the sad truth is that they don't even play their game enough to make good decisions, eventhough the game seems to be leading in a good direction now. I remembered when one of the devs played killer against four korean survivors, gettting bullied non stop with insta flashlights. He was pissed after that game and....surprise: they fixed flashlights. But they didn't fixed them before when people were saying they are OP and shouldn't exist. They only fixed it because one person was forced to play killer during a live stream. That scenario is a perfect example why you can't take the devs seriously when they say that the game is fine and fair. They don't play their own game in a way that gives them enough information to make balanced chances.
So...if they would have a realistic view about their game (which we all know by now, they don't), they would see that the game design isn't working with SWF. You don't even need to play DBD that often to come to this conclusion. And you know: I am pretty sure they know. They are not stupid. But they are too afraid to make the survivor side mad so they stay away from reworking the SWF system.
SWF is an implementation that doesn't harmonize with the core design of the game and is literally and overkill. Sure...killers have improved and have found ways to play as optimally as the could to win against these teams but it is not on the killer side if they win. It is on the survivors to make mistakes.
So...a tool that completely ignores certain game mechanics to give one side a massive advantage that has no counterplay to it, even if it is legally implemented, is cheating. No matter if the devs want it to be in the game or not. It is what it is.
Just admit it, you lost the argument. You have nothing to prove your miserable point right and you got destroyed by facts.
It's funny how you try to insult me or slip off the topic by using pathetic demagogy tricks, since you know every single of my points are truth.
I think you are the one assuming.
Comms
tbh if im not feeling like having a hard game i just look at the lobby i got put in. if its all players on the same platform and they were there before i joined i leave. going against swf is just not fun and if your not playing as a killer your good with which i don't often do since i don't like playing the same killer over and over again then you often lose.
like im prestiging my blight and using the perks i get and am currently running an obsession build for fun. it is in no way competitive and against randoms its pretty fun but against gen rushers it doesn't stand a chance. why would i play against a swf with it then when i could wait for another lobby or two for an actual fun game.
I am aggressive? Lmao, sure buddy, I forgot where I was insulting you for 4 pages straight 😂
Actually I play with friends no comms😂 I just tell them to not get killed and don't meme me before match.
It is you who gets aggressive when called out XDD
If you aren't lying, then you must be a very exceptional kind of SWF, as in many other cases survivors have comms and don't feel bad about abusing them.
You know, if I bring up every phrase you insulted anyone, my comment would fill up the entire page. Also, the person who I told about circus was the first to insult me, so idk why are blaming me
That's how most go some swf just wanna have fun but killers who complain about it just think everyone has it out for them and want to ruin their match.
Why should I waste time proving something already obvious?
Btw, you've yet to answer any of my points. The only thing you were doing is insulting me directly and indirectly.
So comms on Xbox and PlayStation have always been cheating even though it's built into the system?
KYF is boring 🤔 imo.
Deleting SWF outside KYF would literally kill the game itself.
A lot of survivors do quit when facing certain killers. Everybody in this game will have biases, regardless of who they play as. I personally don't mind going against 4 man SWF sweat groups, but I know I might get stomped if I don't play equally sweaty and rearrange my perks and offerings to counter what I assume they'll have as perks.
Luckily, I play a lot of Pyramid Head and his power is a great counter to a lot of regularly ran survivor perks (provided they messed up and step in a trail of torment)
Either way, SWF can be annoying, but so can killers who love ebony Mori's and noed. This game is near impossible to balance, at least in a way that would make everyone happy.
It's just one of the possible solutions =)
In the system but not the game.
Imagine using voice comms in Among Us to tell others who the killer is. Oh, it's not in the game but it's on my system so it's not cheating!
For all the people complaining about this just try and understand. Playing on coms is always gonna make your team do better rather then not using coms. That sharing of information and organisation can beat any killer if done right. On the other side of the coin. Yeah it's really fun playing with my mates I don't want it to be deleted but unlike everyone else crying at the idea of swfs being nerfed I get why it's a really good idea. Yeah not all swfs are awful to go against by that is such a minority that I think they should be nerfed regardless or give killers some sort of advantage when going against them. Yeah it would make it a little harder when in a swf but consider all the advantages you get from it, it's just making the game fairer. Of course everyone's entailed to their own opinion but god some of you have your heads buried in the sand.
They literally do the same thing to survs. Cant see if you're playing spirit or freddy. Cant see if we are being forced to play with yellow ranks. This game in general forces you to put up with bs. It's not unique to killers lol.
Y'all act like the game is unbalanced towards you killers when survivors are SWF but no, the game is balanced around SWF, solo queue is just incredibly unbalanced for survivors and needs Comms or something because it's already an awful experience.
Not all SWF’s play the game to make a miserable experience for the killer, some just want to have fun.
But the vast majority of them do want to make the game miserable for others, which gives you all a bad name.
Their fun never includes fun of the killer since he's a stranger to them.
The game is definitely not balanced around SWF, if it was communication would have been built in from the beginning.
Except that in Among Us the game and the devs explicitly ask you not to talk except in the meetings, it’s deliberately put in the printed rules of the game. So if you do then you’re breaking the rules, aka cheating. But in DbD the devs have explicitly said multiple times that using comms isn’t cheating, isn’t bannable and they even use comms themselves when they play. So in DbD using comms is perfectly acceptable. There’s a very detailed dev response to this question from Q&A 5 above.
The only issue with comms is it brings balance issues compared to playing without them which haven’t been fully addressed. But the game having a balance problem doesn’t mean that that they didn’t fully intend or expect people to play on comms, they did, and it doesn’t make comms “cheating”.
You keep saying they want to be able to do away with comms but can’t, but they literally play with comms themselves because they think it’s fun to do. It has nothing to do with it being “cheating they can’t enforce”, they fully expect and use comms to be in the game. They simply have unresolved balance issues between people who choose to use comms and people who don’t and, as they’ve said, they don’t want to force people to play the game in a manner the player doesn’t like. They’re not going to force players who like comms to not use them and they’re not going to force players who don’t like being on comms to listen to people who do use them.
Moris are tools to be used within the game...
Third party comms are not. I can't say I understand this comparison.
There's not enjoying something and playing against something that breaks the game.